Concepts of God

[Gilgamesh]

Truth is a concept in the making. Meanwhile there are as many truths as there are points of view. And as many points of view as there are individuation of the One Conciousness. If there was but one truth, there would be no need for an infinity of souls to exists. After all isn't it the purpose of the soul's journey to find it's own truth while on it's way to unity?

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by Gilgamesh

Truth is a concept in the making. Meanwhile there are as many truths as there are points of view. And as many points of view as there are individuation of the One Conciousness. If there was but one truth, there would be no need for an infinity of souls to exists. After all isn't it the purpose of the soul's journey to find it's own truth while on it's way to unity?

I am under the impression that every spritual giant on earth now and before uniformly express Truth and Love as inherent qualities in the One Consciousness residing in All and Everywhere Ever
These qualities are not mere concepts for man to juggle with according to season but experienced with investigating intent by reason

Every man has his consept of Living Truth and Love according to his beliefs culture and mental makeup
We are living it when Love makes us love and Truth makes us truthful

Truth and Love as inherent qualities of the One Counsciousness refines the infinite souls basking in Its Ocean of Divinity - Thats why our souls are truthful and loveable but matter mind encasement on earth obscures and deflect these qualities and we are batteling with the myriads of desires of the mind - Adherence to Truth and Love no matter what will free the soul from any further entanglement with matter mind complex and there will be no more involuntary birth on earth for that soul because it can no longer be tempted and fooled by the riches and promises of the world of men

So its not because of the souls clinging to its own truths but the souls adherence to the Living Loving Truth that frees them and makes them fit for Immortality and Unity

[china2012]

Hi RedeZra,

Thanks for spreading hope and your wisdom.

'Adherence to Truth and Love no matter what will free the soul from any further entanglement with matter mind complex and there will be no more involuntary birth on earth for that soul because it can no longer be tempted and fooled by the riches and promises of the world of men'

The fire, bring us its warm.
Would you mind to elaborate on the concept deeper concerning what is Truth and what is Love ?

Other questions in my mind are:
1. There are books defines Love as free from fear? Why?

2. What is living Truth?


With my respect to your contribution.

[Sol Invictus]

Do I believe in a Universal Creator? Yes I do.

Do I believe in 'God and the Bible'? no, because its a crock of crapiola. Its a book, designed by powerful men to rob the weak of hope and happiness in their mortal lives and look instead to the 'next' life and grind themselves into the ground and into exhaustion because of old fat greedy men saying 'God will reward you'.

The most evil thing ever created was the Catholic Church, Judism and Islam. They are all three monumental cages to hold people oppressed and cowed down to a few powerful elect above them.

I wish people would be kind, generous, helpful, consoderate and loving because it was in them all the time, instead of doing good deeds because they fear 'some one' above them with a rod and 'eternal flames' to punish them.

I adore Jesus's message. Love one another. How simple can it be? and yet we have a man made set of books killing our spirits driving us downwards.

When I died I indeed saw some thing magnificant; It was beautiful, it was divine. However i never needed a damn book to experience it or be taken there.

[macrostheblack]

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

Do I believe in a Universal Creator? Yes I do.

Do I believe in 'God and the Bible'? no, because its a crock of crapiola. Its a book, designed by powerful men to rob the weak of hope and happiness in their mortal lives and look instead to the 'next' life and grind themselves into the ground and into exhaustion because of old fat greedy men saying 'God will reward you'.

The most evil thing ever created was the Catholic Church, Judism and Islam. They are all three monumental cages to hold people oppressed and cowed down to a few powerful elect above them.

I wish people would be kind, generous, helpful, consoderate and loving because it was in them all the time, instead of doing good deeds because they fear 'some one' above them with a rod and 'eternal flames' to punish them.

I adore Jesus's message. Love one another. How simple can it be? and yet we have a man made set of books killing our spirits driving us downwards.

When I died I indeed saw some thing magnificant; It was beautiful, it was divine. However i never needed a damn book to experience it or be taken there.

I agree with you Sol to a degree, but.... I still think theres alot of hidden power in the old bible. True it was abused by greedy minded people but i think theres still a joke on them in there somewhere. It has been altered but is still ancient mans attempts at putting to scribe tales of paranormal type experience.

I dont go to church or read the thing but it as definately acted as a passport for many people to get through the journey called life.

[Unified Serenity]

Originally Posted by macrostheblack

I agree with you Sol to a degree, but.... I still think theres alot of hidden power in the old bible. True it was abused by greedy minded people but i think theres still a joke on them in there somewhere. It has been altered but is still ancient mans attempts at putting to scribe tales of paranormal type experience.

I dont go to church or read the thing but it as definately acted as a passport for many people to get through the journey called life.

This is in a way how I view much of my spiritual path. I would describe myself as a mystic. I believe we are told much truth in the Old Testament (OT), and I do not trust much of the New Testament. For those who care to hear a possible "Who is God and why are we here", I share this theory. Some of it is based on observing nature, and some based on statements in the OT.

If one accepts that nothing exists outside of God, then all things come from God. If you take all matter down to its smallest bits, we have atoms, which are basically energy, thus all creation is based on energy. God is the Supreme Energy and force of Life.

Who among us wants to exist alone? A baby not held and cared for except for nutrition provided will die from lack of nurturing. A child who cannot get positive attention will seek negative attention. We all want attention, and we all want positive loving attention, but none of us wants fake love or forced attention. How many of us have gotten our feelings hurt when we seem to be the one in the friendship or relationship that always does the reaching out? We might say, "If so and so cares about me, then they can call or visit, otherwise is it a real friendship?" So, my view is that God also wanted a loving friendship, and so created beings.

He gave these beings everything they could need. They did not suffer physically in any way, and some did love God, and other's well, they enjoyed themselves immensely whether in or out of God's direct presence. God did not want robots who said, "I love you God" "I love you God".... etc.. No, he wanted mature spiritually evolved love that came from a place of divine love and oneness. But how to test that, and how to find out what each soul would choose must have been thought upon.

Lucifer was supposedly the most beautiful of all God's children until evil was found in him. Well how could evil be created if nothing exists outside of God? Did God use a soul, Lucifer, to test his children? I cannot say for sure, but according to the bible, Lucifer fell when he rose up in pride to be equal to God. We are told one third of God's children agreed with Lucifer and fell, a small portion, the Zadok stayed close to God and defended God, and what of the other nearly two thirds? I think they were off fishing that day, saw the turmoil and said, "not my fight" and just avoided the whole conflict believing they were not taking sides.

In that moment, God ended an age, and there was darkness. According to Genesis 1:1 - 1:2 it was the Katabole. It's as if God picked up a mighty stone and broke it. That's probably where the dinosaurs went extinct. Some would argue Nibiru came by and caused a cataclysm. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe God used Nibiru, I don't know, but we do know that the earth was of one season and it tipped on its axis suddenly, and that is what Peter called the Age that was.

That was not the end for those souls. No, God would put them through a time to grow and learn what love really is and is not by having them experience life in this physical form which you and I presently exist. I know some believe that each of us is given one life and based on that we will be judged. That may be so; however, I do not believe that. I believe we are given many lifetimes to learn our lessons and evolve spiritually. We are told love covers a multitude of sins, and it is long suffering, thus I believe God being love has give each soul the time needed to learn and grow, and eventually based on that soul's choices over many lifetimes, God will know that souls true desires and free will. God has a plan for this age.

In speaking of ages, let me just state that the bible talks of three ages. There is the age that was, the age that is (this one now), and the age that is to come. God has spoken through many prophets, and even written his plan in the heavens / stars. E.W. Bullinger wrote a wonderful work called "Witness of the stars" which is a fascinating read to understand the message written in the stars which in Hebrew were called the Mazzaroth. The prophecy uses positive and negative souls. I believe Lucifer plays out the negative side of prophecy, and his children are used in that as well. You can trace them throughout the bible if you study it carefully. They are the Kenites. They changed their name to Rechabites in 2 Chronicles 2:55, and Jeremiah chapter 35 tells us how obedient they are to their father, and how they moved into Judea to escape Nebuchadnezzar. They are not of the tribe of Judah, but if after generations of living in a region it would be normal to be called a Judean, and later shortened to Jew.

They became the scribes and Pharisees, and Jesus / Yeshua told them openly and very publically that they were of their father the devil aka Lucifer, and guilty of shedding the blood of the prophets from Zachariah on the portico of Solomon to the blood of Abel. Who killed Abel? Yes, Cain killed Abel, and Cain's children are the Kenites. That is why they killed Yeshua. It is they who God said would be protected and not hunted down. They cannot grow anything, and they would never have a home, but would be wanderers. If you cannot grow anything, how are you to live? Well, if one follows the actions of some who claim to be Jews and are not, then you find the bankers of the world. They found a way to control commerce and obtain great power. They run the governments of the world from the shadows. They even use the identity of being a Jew to cast hatred and blame on Judah, and many falsely blame Judah for the world’s problems. It is all prophesied to happen.

There is an ultimate test coming, and only those who have spiritually evolved in true selfless love will pass the test. Fear is the opposite of love. Whether you are a believer in Jesus / Yeshua or not is not my point here. I do believe there is an ability to walk in true selfless love no matter one's faith. I use the example in the bible of Peter when he says Yeshua walking on the water. He at first thought Yeshua to be a ghost, but called out, "If you are Yeshua, command me to come to you" and when called, Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water to Yeshua whom he dearly loved. It was not until Peter took his eyes off Yeshua and saw the angry waves that fear gripped his heart and he began to sink and called out to Yeshua to save him. Yeshua pulled him up, and Peter was saved. So it is with this end days trial and tribulations. Whatever your paths keep your focus on your God and walk in divine love. Kenites cannot understand this love. They are completely selfish and find love to be weak.

These clay bodies we live in are but vessels. Our true being is of divine nature, created in love, and always wants to return to that sacred oneness in God. We recognize it in each other that have eyes to see and ears to hear. I do not know how long we have, no person does. Many have believed they were in the last days for thousands of years. We do know that prophecy states that when Israel was again inhabited by Jews, that that generation would not pass until all was fulfilled. Man's given 120 years to live. So, from 1948 to _____ is a generation. Some thought it was 40 years as in the 40 year generation and looked to 1988 to be the time and read omens in world events. They were wrong. I will not be one to state a date. Many believe 2012 is the date because of the Mayan calendar, Nibiru, Galactic plane events etc.. No man knows the day nor hour is what we are told, but we were told we would be given signs.

One sign is a one world government. I hear so many wanting to fight the one world government. Some are making plans to go to war with guns. This will not help. You cannot stop the divine plan. I'm not saying to help them, but I am saying do not fear. Walk in love, live your life based on love, understand what is happening, make preparations to survive in times of trouble, but keep your eyes focused where they should be and not on the evil ones who would have you afraid as you see the angry waves.

I believe we are most blessed to be alive in these times, and given the highest honor to walk in that divine love in a world mostly spiritually asleep and not knowing what that path of divine love is like. I could go on, but will stop here. I have left out a lot of information, but thank you for the kindness of reading my words and if they have helped or brought you some peace, then I am glad.

May God be with you and hold you, and may you know divine love in every moment of your life.

[Camery]

Good thread. I love most of these replies. But we seem to continue questioning the unquestionable rather than seeing the kingdom within as spoken by Jesus although there are some here who do see from within with a meek and lowly heart.

Never the less, my vision is of a man walking in the garden in which everything is growing and living in accordance with his wishes. Everyone he meets is his friend. He doesn't experience anger, nor is there a place for it as all communication is on the same level.

Then I shrink in size down to the current human in a place we call earth in which I look up at the heavens and know that a few moments ago it was only a cell of my body. All that I can now see as well as with instruments is but a cell. All the galaxies we may observe are but the workings within just one cell of the body that I was.

Then I observe that somewhere within me there is a cell working much like the heavens I now see in which there is a place they call a name like that of earth in which they are looking up into the heavens which is part of a cell within me.

The Bible is the created Adam and Eve as our parents. They failed, therefore the Adam era conceived a man child through Noah in which through gestation of the zygotes, the embryonic and fetus periods developed until in the fullness of time Jesus was born as the human representative of that body we refer to as Christ of which we are all members.

As the representative of that body He called Himself the "Son of Man" and being the first of the redeemed He was referred to as the Son of God".

[RedeZra]

It is good and right to surrender to God

To dedicate the fruits of ones actions to God
The good the bad it doesnt matter
Its all His anyway

Surrender the lust the love the pain the joy to God
Let Him deal with it so as oneself is not bound by it
Place the burden of Karma upon Him
Surly He can carry it

Karma chains with gold or iron
Depending of the good or bad actions
If one dedicate the actions and fruits thereof to God
One is free from any Karmic reaction

It is good and right to surrender to God
Who is within without and everywhere one sees and cannot see

Do you think you can look some place where God is not
Do you think you can hide somewhere so He doesnt see you

He is the totality of it all and then some

So the fools are quite right when claiming to be God
But just because one can speak and state a fact
Does not make them into God
Rather He is hidden deeper behind the veil

God is as much without as within
Man can find Him as much without as within

But if one wants to be like God to rise to His stature
One must dive deep into Divinity within

It is good and right to surrender to God
To be like a kitten in the jaws of its mother
Enjoy the worry free ride - as long as one is a kitten

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by china2012

...Would you mind to elaborate on the concept deeper concerning what is Truth and what is Love ?

Other questions in my mind are:
1. There are books defines Love as free from fear? Why?

2. What is living Truth?

There is Truth and there is Love because God is Truth and Love and God is Living so there must be Living Loving Truth

Thats why wise men dont tell a lie they rather keep silent
Thats why wise men dont show dislike they rather keep a distant

If one is not capable to be truthful and loveable then refrain from telling lies and igniting aversions
If one is not capable to help then refrain from hurting
If one is not capable to do what is good and right then just dont do the opposite bad and wrong

As every journey starts with one small step and after thousands of steps one reaches there so every little truthful and loveable act takes one closer to Oneself
Step back tell a lie hurt and one have missed a forward step and the journey takes longer
If one keeps on stepping back and forth all the time one stands still not getting anywhere and when will one reach there...?

Living means for instance capable to communicate so it is possible with prayer devotion meditation to communicate with Spirit of Truth and Love
Some names and forms are more powerful then others because they are names of God Divine Beings Angels Saints and Sages
So even if take for example Jesus who lived and died on earth 2000 years ago or Buddha even before that they are very much alive in Spirit of Living Loving Truth and able to help guide the devotee who have chosen them for their worship devotion and praise
God Jesus Buddha Mary Michael or any other spiritual giant are quite capable to pick up the devotees intense praise prayer devotion and act in a manner best for the devotee

Living Loving Truth means cultivate relationship with Divinity and keep good company
Have a little faith and trust in the messages of the spiritual giants who once walked the earth and still do
Have a little faith and trust in the Living Presence of these Divine Beings for they overcame matter mind and some even soul to be Fountains of Grace

[china2012]

Thanks RedeZra,
What a striding star.

[RedeZra]

God is the Author Actor Acting all the Acts

Mind Man is given a role to play and dons a costume on a stage
Its only Drama a performance of the Script
An Epic make believe as Real as one knows its a Fantasy
Nobody really lives nobody really dies nobody really loves

Life the act of Living and the vehicles of Life is One Life Only
Love the act of Loving and the recipients of Love is One Love Only
What about death...? How can Consciousness die...?!

Do the ensemble bother about the Author and the Script...?
Are they reciting lines or lost in improvisation only...?

How can one know the One Only Author Actor and the Script...?
How can I know Myself...? Turn the Mind to the Source and Ask who am I...Inquire who am I...Interrogate who am I...!

[RedeZra]

A little remembrance of Lord Jesus


My Passion is the Cross
My Body and Blood for Mans Sin and Soul

It is Done! Redeemed! Rejoice!

Remember I Rose
as I Rise in him
who remembers Me

...

Clip links with testimony from Earthquake Kelly and Walter Hallam

Earthquake Kelley - Man visits Heaven and meets God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xIeR...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJMUn...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hcU-...eature=related

Recent Death Revelation by Jesus - Perry Stone & Walter Hallam
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...60354160&hl=en

[day]

Originally Posted by RedeZra

A little remembrance of Lord Jesus


My Passion is the Cross
My Body and Blood for Mans Sin and Soul

It is Done! Redeemed! Rejoice!

Remember I Rose
as I Rise in him
who remembers Me

...

Clip links with testimony from Earthquake Kelly and Walter Hallam

Earthquake Kelley - Man visits Heaven and meets God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xIeR...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJMUn...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hcU-...eature=related

Recent Death Revelation by Jesus - Perry Stone & Walter Hallam
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...60354160&hl=en

EArthquake Kelly has a profound testimony--really worth watching
What Jesus did for us cannot be confined to a bible for it is so much more!
It cannot be concluded in our small understanding for it is so much more.

google Ron Wyatt - Ark discoveries -- also on youtube. His passion was biblical archeology, he found some amazing things.

Howard Storm - a former atheist and art teacher had a profound near death experience, can also be found on youtube and google videos.

Howard Storm learned quite a bit, his videos on google encompass what he learned about the universe, et's, and heaven.

[RedeZra]

In the Beginning A vast calm Ocean of Consciousness in Deep Sleep

The 3 Tendencies intrinsic in Consciousness in Perfect Balance
The Trinity Rest In Peace in an Undisturbed Equilibrium


Then a ripple a movement a disturbance of some sort
And Consciousness is Awake and Aware and Alone

And Consciousness is Creative

And Consciousness Projects the Universe from Itself within Itself by the inherent Power of the Trinity


So All That Is came to be because of the Three Tendencies in Consciousness which is One


And everything is seeking back to balance
And everybody longs for peace of mind

And It will sleep again

And till then It is Awake and Aware of It All

It Is Everything Everywhere Ever

[RedeZra]

As time and time before

God will walk the Earth

to teach Man


for there is a Righteous way to live

a life like God


All the Collective ever is a portion of God's Consciousness

what was what is and what will be


that's why He knows us better than ourselves


He is beyond the three times

past present and future

the Eternal Now


the Spirit within without above below

blowing like the wind

nowhere now here


the Mover of Man and the Motion of Nations

the Greater Sum of all the parts


the Soul's journey and joy

the ultimate Destiny


Now all is not Roses but thorns too


Our Culture of a Cross and a Crown of Thorns

Ancient premonitions and amnesty for the coming shedding of blood


for we are free to choose

but we are not free

no not at all

from the consequences of our choices


So again and again

God will descend

to show Man

the Right way

to Himself

[14 Chakras]

For me, it is a very big "Aha" understanding that "He" / "God" that will walk the earth and that is spoken of in lovely poem above, is my very own, and your very own "I AM Presence".

God will indeed walk the earth consciously, and it will do so through YOU ~ through us !

"God's" greatest desire is that we remember God lives in us and I and my Father are One and God BEs through me ~ We are the Body of God ~ As above so below ~ We will do the works that Jesus did only greater works than these we will do ~ in reality there is no separation ~ The abomination of desolation in the holy place of authority where it aught not has been removed ~ the human ego is no longer in control ~ Christ Consciousness has been born in the Suns and Daughters of God ~ The Great Awakening ~~~~~ We are Awakening to our true roles as Co-creators with the infinite ~~~~~ The eternal Now made Manifest on Earth ~~~~ Golden Age made Manifest through US ~~~~ Those who choose to BE will BE ~~~ BEing ~~~ the illusion of separation and victim consciousness has been transmuted and replaced with the Truth that has set us FREE to BE ~~~~

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

For me, it is a very big "Aha" understanding that "He" / "God" that will walk the earth and that is spoken of in lovely poem above, is my very own, and your very own "I AM Presence".

God will indeed walk the earth consciously, and it will do so through YOU ~ through us !

Yes

Our very own

I AM Presence


Absolute and Aware


the I Am Presence within Man is easily accessible

but it is not so easy to stay aware and awake in It


the I Am Presence is wide awake above the realms of Mind

and from time to time the I Am incarnates and interacts with Man



clothing the costume of a body

looking like any other Man

while walking the Earth

to teach to culture to awake


only the Awake

can shake the sleepers and the slumbers

to the Royal state of Reality


for it's just another illusion

to believe to be awake

when one is really dreaming


God is always walking with and within Man as the I Am Presence

and Sometimes Some awakes to this Reality

and Sometimes the I Am comes to walk with Man

[RedeZra]

We do not choose

the time of life's enter and exit

these things are not entirely up to us


this is God's pastime


what on Earth are we doing here

We are gathering and burning Karma


As the saying goes

the twice born goes to perdition

for he will accumulate Karma

in an endless succession of birth and death


until he refines

[RedeZra]

the Supreme Spirit is the Sovereign


the Supreme Spirit's Great Pastime and Play is the Creativity of Creation


who am I

that is the question

that will need an answer


in the meantime enjoy the scene

for it is a play

[greybeard]

Love your way with words RedZra.
The Advaita Sage the late Ramesh Balsekar said.

God wrote the play
God produced the play
God directed the play
God is every actor in the play
God is the witness of the play.

It is up to us to enjoy the play for we are God.

Regards Chris

ps every actor has the choice as to how he plays the character in the play.

Regards Chris

[greybeard]

Perhaps we are concepts of God.
Smiling
Chris

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by greybeard

Perhaps we are concepts of God.
Smiling
Chris

hehe I believe so

[trainedobserver]

If something like a god existed would it not be incomprehensible to the human mind? Aren't all concepts of god therefore simply products of the human imagination? Is contemplating the incomprehensible productive?

It is though a person were attempting to describe an object he has never seen performing a function he doesn't understand.

The human species only exists within a tiny sliver of space-time. While we can theoretically comprehend the system to which we belong and the subsystems comprising it we are blind to the super-system in which we constitute the subordinate systems due primarily to the problem of resource limitations. We are resource limited in data and data processing capacity. As a member of the subset we cannot comprehend the superset to which we belong because we do not and can not contain the data necessary to do so.
Example: Describe the entire alphabet only using the first five letters.

So ... it would seem to me that we must as human beings accept our limitations and recognize that we cannot possibly understand or know these things about supreme beings, gods, and the like and that any concepts of them we do hold are wholey products of our imaginations and have no basis in reality. To fail to do so makes us susceptible to our imaginations and the imaginations of others from which we might construct gods and supreme beings to both frighten and console ourselves with.

I was a Christian for over 35 years before I figured out that it all had to be the product of the human imagination fueled by human need. While I found this realization extremely difficult to swallow I nevertheless had to admit to its truth and deal with it. Its just another part of being a human being.

You may argue whether I am an atheist or an agnostic. I say I'm an atheist because I view all human concepts of god as impossible on principle. You however may say I am agnostic in that I recognize the probability that the universe itself is a living being with some sort of consciousness that although not the personal god imagined by many, might fit the bill for a supreme being of some kind although it would still remain incomprehensible.

[greybeard]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

If something like a god existed would it not be incomprehensible to the human mind? Aren't all concepts of god therefore simply products of the human imagination? Is contemplating the incomprehensible productive?

It is though a person were attempting to describe an object he has never seen performing a function he doesn't understand.

The human species only exists within a tiny sliver of space-time. While we can theoretically comprehend the system to which we belong and the subsystems comprising it we are blind to the super-system in which we constitute the subordinate systems due primarily to the problem of resource limitations. We are resource limited in data and data processing capacity. As a member of the subset we cannot comprehend the superset to which we belong because we do not and can not contain the data necessary to do so.
Example: Describe the entire alphabet only using the first five letters.

So ... it would seem to me that we must as human beings accept our limitations and recognize that we cannot possibly understand or know these things about supreme beings, gods, and the like and that any concepts of them we do hold are wholey products of our imaginations and have no basis in reality. To fail to do so makes us susceptible to our imaginations and the imaginations of others from which we might construct gods and supreme beings to both frighten and console ourselves with.

I was a Christian for over 35 years before I figured out that it all had to be the product of the human imagination fueled by human need. While I found this realization extremely difficult to swallow I nevertheless had to admit to its truth and deal with it. Its just another part of being a human being.

You may argue whether I am an atheist or an agnostic. I say I'm an atheist because I view all human concepts of god as impossible on principle. You however may say I am agnostic in that I recognize the probability that the universe itself is a living being with some sort of consciousness that although not the personal god imagined by many, might fit the bill for a supreme being of some kind although it would still remain incomprehensible.

Hi Trained Observer. you are of course right. All concepts are fallacious because they are by there very nature objective, they are about the subject, they are not subjective.

Dr David Hawkins was for a long while an agnostic after being a devout Christian. He got to the point where he just could not accept a god who let pain and misery happen on a massive scale. From the depth of hell he said " If there is a God I ask him for help"
In a holy instant he was enlightened.

http://www.veritaspub.com/

Thats his publishers web site.

For my self I have had the love of God descend on me unexpectedly, it is unmistakable.

I have written an account on the "Ego what is it and how to transcend it" Several others have written there of their spiritual experiences.

Regards Chris

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by greybeard

For my self I have had the love of God descend on me unexpectedly, it is unmistakable.

I would say that you have experienced something. Certainly, I have experienced what I would have described in the same manner years ago.

When we say we have experienced the love of God we are interpreting our experience using our imaginations.

It makes more sense to me to interpret those experiences in human context in human terms. This would seem to be closer to the truth than speculating about an "other" we imagine to be all encompassing in his being and nature but which cannot know by the very definition we have attributed to "it".