SNOW CIRCLES ...instead of CROP CIRCLES

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by hollylindin

But you're still saying how YOU feel about it; isn't THAT based on blood sugar as well?
<3

No. Let's think about it this way. Say you have a car. Do you take it to a mechanic who is schooled in automotive mechanics, who will examine the evidence, make conclusions based on the evidence, and then make the appropriate repairs? Or do you take it to a man who meditates on what might be the cars problem and based on how he feels at the moment may or may not replace some part in the car for no real mechanical reason?

The "scientific method" is what we are talking about vs. what exactly?

The Internet, the method by which we are communicating, the myriad machines that make it up, was designed and is maintained through science and not through meditation, looking within, or revealed knowledge, nor could it ever be.

The evidence that Crop Circles are created by human beings through the use of rather prosaic mechanical methods is there for all to see. Some of the makers are more than willing to tell and explain all about it, but you have to have an open mind and the willingness to examine the evidence without bias.

The reluctance to let go of the paranormal explanation for something by people who claim to be on some sort of spiritual journey to the truth is incredibly disconcerting but not surprising to me for the simple reason I did the same thing for many years. I understand where you are coming from after a fashion. However, at some point the passion for the truth must overtake any pet theories or ideas that we might have or it isn't a pursuit of truth at all. This can very difficult, depending on the subject, or at least it was for me.

As I've said before, believe what you will, but at least look at all of the evidence available and revise your conclusions as necessary. For your sake.

Testing of Crop Circles
How to work out a crop circle is man made
The science and "experts" exposed
Crop Circles being made

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

believe what you will, but at least look at all of the evidence available and revise your conclusions as necessary. For your sake.

It seems you're extra passionate about this trainedobserver, but what exactly are you suggesting, are you simply refuting specifically the snow circles discussed here, or are you generalizing a conclusion that ALL crop circles are fake (man made)? I'm assuming the latter?

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Majorion

It seems you're extra passionate about this trainedobserver, but what exactly are you suggesting, are you simply refuting specifically the snow circles discussed here, or are you generalizing a conclusion that ALL crop circles are fake (man made)? I'm assuming the latter?

My passion if for the truth. Whatever that may be. In this case I have been speaking specifically about crop circles. Yes, I am saying that the evidence shows that all complex crop circles are created by human beings. Real "saucer nests" as they were once called, do exist. However they are simple things, impressions on the ground or crop, or changes in the soil. There are numerous examples of this type of thing most remarkably the Rendelsham Incident circle that Robbins took the soil samples from for analysis. See Left At East Gate by Warren and Robbins for an account of this along with photos. There are several other examples you can find easily enough.

These snow circles are most likely man-made as well. They could have been manufactured any number of ways.

In my opinion, and in my experience, these things are distractions and don't really provide any insight into the UFO phenomena, but rather cloud the study of it with disinformation and wasted energies.

[TRANCOSO]

For some people nothing will ever be proof of something, bye bye
you don't even seem to care to give an explanation why you act like this. Yawn DP
I would suggest to find out for yourself, get in an airplane with your camera and see for yourself.

if this...

One fine day an RAF jet flew over Stonehenge. It happened to be a favourite spot of the pilot, so he looked down & saw everything was normal.
45 minutes later, approaching from the opposite direction, the pilot noticed something had changed in the landscape.
To his astonishment he saw a huge - as in HUGE - crop formation had appeared, now known as the (first) Julia Circle.

I'm not gonna do your homework for you, but being the expert you pretend to be, you undoubtedly know exactly what I'm talking about.
Mind you, we have here a trained observer (sic), a RAF jetfighter pilot, a 45 minute time interval & a HUGE & complex formation, that - on paper - can only be drawn by a computer.

... is what you've read & you than come up with a bunch of random pictures, which have absolutely nothing to do with the Julia Circle at Stonehenge, or anything else I'm refering to, you are either totally self-absorbed, or you have an extremely short memory spam and immidiatly forget what you've read.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

[Soulcrafter]

That's the 2nd time you approach me with that kind of language.
In the future i'll ignore your posts and i reported you for the use of your language. bye bye

[TRANCOSO]

That's the 2nd time you approach me with that kind of language.
... i reported you for the use of your language. bye bye

Hopefully that will draw the attention of the moderators towards this thread.
I think that having a sincere opinion on a topic - crop circles, in this case - is something completely different as spreading disinfo & utter BS.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

[Jonah]

Well it's nice to see everyone playing nice today....

DIs info or not.... I'm pretty sure members such as yourselves should be able to understand that you should never believe what any one person tells you... That is why we have our own discernment.... this is a forum with people who have certain views/opinions..... it's up to you to decide what you want to believe...

[TRANCOSO]

Jonah, Im a very 'cheerful' person, but I get very aggitated when I smell trolls.

I'm always open for well documented statements opinions on a subject, but in this case I just notice 2 persons throwing in a lot of blunt statements.
The 'Matthew' video has as much scientific value as the Nat. Geo. documentary. None.

The crop formation discussion is not about what's obviously man made, it's about that which cannot be explained.

I've often been to Wiltshire, saw very complex formation appear in broad daylight with only a one hour interval, no tracks to be seen & a pattern only vissible from the air.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver make a mockery of the crop circle subject & that really pisses me off.

The forum is not meant for (big time) BS posts. At least, that's my opinion.

(I'm not hiding behind an anonymous avatar. Anybody who wants to know what TRANCOSO's real name is - who I am - can find me at www.ikgeloofalles.nl - as I've already posted before in a seperate thread.)

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by TRANCOSO

Jonah, Im a very 'cheerful' person, but I get very aggitated when I smell trolls.

I'm always open for well documented statements opinions on a subject, but in this case I just notice 2 persons throwing in a lot of blunt statements.
The 'Matthew' video has as much scientific value as the Nat. Geo. documentary. None.

The crop formation discussion is not about what's obviously man made, it's about that which cannot be explained.

I've often been to Wiltshire, saw very complex formation appear in broad daylight with only a one hour interval, no tracks to be seen & a pattern only vissible from the air.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver make a mockery of the crop circle subject & that really pisses me off.

The forum is not meant for (big time) BS posts. At least, that's my opinion.

(I'm not hiding behind an anonymous avatar. Anybody who wants to know what TRANCOSO's real name is - who I am - can find me at www.ikgeloofalles.nl - as I've already posted before in a seperate thread.)

Sorry, i just dont believe you. You are most probably part of the "lets lie to damn the ******* circlemakers" brigade. Sorry to be blunt but circles dont appear in broad daylight. Its just that simple.

If so, please oh pretty please tell me which one you saw that formed infront of you. I really am all ears on this. Go ahead make my day. I cant wait to tell the circlemakers who created it that apparently they are all mentally ill and deluding themselves that they were out at night creating it!

Seriously though dude. This isnt funny hearing people saying this stuff.

Re: National geo and other documentaries. What you maybe dont realise is that journlists come along and they basically put their cards down on the table with researchers and tell them what they intend doing. This causes researchers to say "If your going to film or speak to circlemakers we wont give you an interview". Which is why now a lot of docu makers dont say who they are working with because researchers just pull tantrums and pull out. However journalists arent interested in b******t they want the inside story. So they speak to everyone, get the juicy angles and play one side off against the other for entertainment purposes. However they will usually come down more favourably on the side they know is telling the truth. So after speaing to both sides which side usually wins the truth argument??? Well circlemakers every time! The only time you see "circles cant be made by people" put forward in a docu is when the docu makers have a bias agenda or believers making those documentaries, orthey are codus made by crop circle lovers like Suzanne Taylor (grrr). National Geo arent in the business of siding with the loonies of the world... and the arguments given by researchers are easily washed away with demonstrations with circlemakers making circles.

One journalist this year gave us a list of things the researchers said we couldnt create. So we ticked everything off on their list by creating those effects in front of the cameras. No lengthy set ups either, we were being challenged to do it - so we did it with no questions asked, bosh bosh... theres your circles with those effects present. You see the difference is that we as circlemakers have factual things we can do and show. Researchers make claims. thats the difference. We actually go out and show what we can do. Thats fact. Journalists can see the difference. Now we cant win against people who want to make up wild stories that cannot be disproved but it just goes to show how far the believer community will go.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by truthseekers

If so, please oh pretty please tell me which one you saw that formed infront of you. I really am all ears on this. Go ahead make my day.

That makes 2 of us and i'm pretty sure others are on the edge of their seat now...

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

That makes 2 of us and i'm pretty sure others are on the edge of their seat now...

Well every year I say to researchers "tell us which ones are man made then" and they never give us a comprehesive list. They fail to do so.

This is odd behaviour because most researchers will boldly claim they know which circles are man made and can clearly tell... so why not say then. This is always fishy. Try asking circles researchers this question and see how they squirm. Its quite an interesting reaction usually which may end up with them becoming very quickly paranoid and wanting to know why you want to know and who are you working with and do you know circlemakers and quite often gets the "I AM NOT BEING TESTED BY YOU" reaction.

I dont make this stuff up by the way. Try it... see where it gets you. Perfectly reasonable and innocent question and it really does peel back the skin to reveal the researcher underneath.

Note to others reading:
I will ask people keep their emotions down as this is a very emotional subject and quickly gets out of hand. I have seen peoples reactions to me escelate into everything up to actual physical violence so I know how heated the debate can be but I am asking for some calm if we are to discuss these things. Please by all means try and pull down what I am saying but do it with rational points and facts rather than feelings and un-backed statements. If you feel I have not backed up what i am saying please feel fre and I will go into more detail. This is probably the only good way forward with this.

[Soulcrafter]

Im a very 'cheerful' person, but I get very aggitated when I smell trolls.

Yes, we have seen the proof of that.

I'm always open for well documented statements opinions on a subject, but in this case I just notice 2 persons throwing in a lot of blunt statements.

Blunt statements, maybe to you it is. And truth for others, no need to get personal for that reason.

The 'Matthew' video has as much scientific value as the Nat. Geo. documentary. None.

Have you actually watched the whole documentary or just the first 10 minutes?

The crop formation discussion is not about what's obviously man made, it's about that which cannot be explained.

I'm pretty sure it's been explained/demonstrated many times but either people don't want to watch/listen or they just can't handle the truth.

I've often been to Wiltshire, saw very complex formation appear in broad daylight with only a one hour interval, no tracks to be seen & a pattern only vissible from the air.

A littlle more detail would be welcome. Like what formation, date, location and what kind of crop.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver make a mockery of the crop circle subject & that really pisses me off.

I'ts not mockery, it's common sense.

The forum is not meant for (big time) BS posts. At least, that's my opinion.

That's not for you to judge, they have mods for this.

I'm not hiding behind an anonymous avatar

I'm not hiding either, actually i'm well known in the CC community on both sides. And i like to have some privacy on forums.

www.ikgeloofalles.nl

Translates into www.i believe everything.nl

That's obvious.

[chelmostef]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

.

Red Card, your pointing it the wrong way.

If it was so easy to prove dont you think it would be in the main stream media? and excepted science? All this prove it stuff reminds me or myself having a row with my sister.. " Prove it?" we would shout at each other... Im not 7 anymore.. Thanks very much. If you have no constuctive information to give PLEASE give none. Thanks kindly.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by chelmostef

If it was so easy to prove dont you think it would be in the main stream media? and excepted science?

Is the mainstream media known for spreading the truth?

Where is the excepted science? Can you explain further?

Thanks in advance.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by chelmostef

If you have no constuctive information to give PLEASE give none.

Here are four short videos chock full of constructive information and actual demonstrations you can watch. There is someone (truthseekers) posting to this thread who has been arrested and convicted under British law for making crop circles and he has offered to answer your questions. What more could you ask for?

Testing of Crop Circles
How to work out a crop circle is man made
The science and "experts" exposed
Crop Circles being made

[chelmostef]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Here are four short videos chock full of constructive information and actual demonstrations you can watch. There is someone (truthseekers) posting to this thread who has been arrested and convicted under British law for making crop circles and he has offered to answer your questions. What more could you ask for?

Testing of Crop Circles
How to work out a crop circle is man made
The science and "experts" exposed
Crop Circles being made

Are you saying all crop circles are man made?

[truthseekers]

There arent any I see that dont look like they couldnt be made by people. Theres nothing so complicated that it would be too hard.. so basically yes. However I can verify i know most of the UK circlemakers and do not know people from abroad... apart from a few who I have infrequent contact with. Seeing as I know every person doing them in the UK I know who does what. Its just part of being in the loop. I dont know who is doingh what overseas.

[371]

Originally Posted by truthseekers

There arent any I see that dont look like they couldnt be made by people. Theres nothing so complicated that it would be too hard.. so basically yes. However I can verify i know most of the UK circlemakers and do not know people from abroad... apart from a few who I have infrequent contact with. Seeing as I know every person doing them in the UK I know who does what. Its just part of being in the loop. I dont know who is doingh what overseas.

Oh?



You sir, are full of it.

I know this for FACT.... "it's just part of being in the loop"

[Soulcrafter]

Yawn, here are the oneliners again...nite all !

[371]

Originally Posted by truthseekers

. Seeing as I know every person doing them in the UK I know who does what. Its just part of being in the loop..

Who made this?




Or this?




Names and details, please.... since you are in the LOOP.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by 371

Who made this?


Names and details, please.... since you are in the LOOP.

The answer is people, the rest is up to you.

It doesn't work like that, you should have known that by now.
The arrogance of some people shees!

This is not what circlemakers do you know.
They might as well put their names near the formations.

It's art without the signature.
The rest is up for the people who admire them and see symbolism in them.

And IF we would say who made what are you gonna post the thousands of formations here and ask who, what and where? Think about it

[371]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

The answer is people, the rest is up to you.

Wrong, MOST- but not all.

This guy says he knows everyone who has made every cropcircle in the UK. Okay, names is a stretch. Details then.

My point is- this guy is talking out is a$$ and he knows it. Wants to feel important. ARMCHAIR EXPERT.

[truthseekers]

Originally Posted by 371

Wrong, MOST- but not all.

This guy says he knows everyone who has made every cropcircle in the UK. Okay, names is a stretch. Details then.

My point is- this guy is talking out is a$$ and he knows it. Wants to feel important. ARMCHAIR EXPERT.

Your quite the little expert arent you and rude to boot. Armchair expert he is not. I have seen the circles he has created and he is active each year. I think the only armchair expert is probably you im afraid to say.

We are here to answer your questions but if you are going to insist on taking the high ground on this when as far as I am aware you havent been on any TV or Radio shows or featured in books or magazines on this subject then why should we bow down to you telling us "fact" in this abusive manner?

[371]

.

[371]

OK- know what?

I'll take everything back, I said... just explain this to me:



What do they MEAN, and what are they FOR?

And don't give me the 'artistic expression' line...