Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!

[Steven]

Originally Posted by lisa

A lot of posters here work for/with Greer. They are not here to learn or to share valuable knowledge. They are just doing their job.

It might be very true indeed and would explain why some members are questioning Bill Ryan behaviors on his own forum, at the same time exploding with insults when members are questioning Greer statements.

Now, imagine for a moment if Steven Greer would admit that some ETs are not good and are actually making a secretive intervention on Earth. How his business would go, knowing how much he charges for training? He is smart enough to know it is not good to invite people in a training on how to make contact if you admit some ETs aren't good, worse they are here for a time... This is, in my opinion, the real reason for his statement.

Namaste, Steven

[Carol]

hmm, I neither work for ~ or with Greer, nor have I the opportunity to attend one of his workshops. However, I did the research and know personal friends of his. I also personally know Alex Collier, who I just saw again last month when he was giving a presentation here in Kona, HI. Alex's experience as a contactee was both positive and negative, yet the overall lessons learned were good and he would like to live with his alien contacts.

As for Stefano, his contacts were mixed. The W56's were positive but their clones (CTRs) are not. His was a very different experience as was Maurico Carvello. Betty Hill, contactee from 1961 describes her contact as positive and invited them to come back. I've read of numermous contactees and their reports all of which were good. Unfortunately in the US, the primary focus of contact is the Greys and Reptilians and even those contacts have mixed viewpoints on positive and negative content. However, almost every report from an abuductee that is connected to the milab experiences are negative.

What I observe happening is how one statement that Greer made appears to color others opinions with regard to his entire experience with alien entities. Somehow that just seems unfair and unrealistic. In addition, Greer also has the name of the labs that produce the implants and that is why his focus was not on negative aliens but instead negative humans who would exploit aliens and humans alike. From my research and personal perspective based on conversations with contactees, I suspect negative aliens also exploit humans and other alien entities as well.

Steven, I was not referring to you specifically when I made my post. Dr. Greer has access to a whole lot more info then any of us could even possibly imagine. He's been involved with alien entities for 30 years and that is a long, long time to accumulate data. His focus is spiritual and in helping humanity. He works with those entities who are in alignment with his own inner spiritual core.

When I recently asked Paola Harris about this very issue and the conflict at the forum about positive and negative alien entities our discussion went into depth about the man and his focus. If one steps back and stops to think... who are the people one allows into ones life? If one can selectively decide who one wants in ones life which people does one choose to hang out with?

Dr. Greer has chosen to be surrounded by those entities who are in accord with his visions for humanity's evolution. He doesn't hang out with the other group because his attention is focused on the spiritual unfoldment of humankind.

For example, all of my close friends are deeply committed to a spiritual path and have been focused on this for years. Some are Buddhists, some practice Sant Mat, other are devout Christians and other Jews. Each path provides a means to a specific outcome... spiritual unfoldment. The commonality of all of them is a commitment to service-to-others and they practice this in a variety of professions. All of them walks their talk irrespective of how difficult and challenging that may be for them on a personal level. What shines through is their love of humanity and their love of God.

It is understandable that Steven Greer chooses not to focus on negative entities and instead hangs out with those alien entities that want to help humankind evolve. I'm also aware that he has made off the cuff remarks in the past that others didn't understand as well which also created conflict. He regrets when this happens and appears to be oblivious at times to how he comes across. It is also understandable that saying something that is misunderstood by others sometimes happen to the best of people even in the best of circumstances. Such is life.

[lisa]

Originally Posted by Steven

Now, imagine for a moment if Steven Greer would admit that some ETs are not good and are actually making a secretive intervention on Earth. How his business would go, knowing how much he charges for training? He is smart enough to know it is not good to invite people in a training on how to make contact if you admit some ETs aren't good, worse they are here for a time...

I don't know why Greer says that all ETs are good.
It might be that his job is to spread the belief that all ETs are good.
Or it might be that he made up this story years ago and is worried that people will call him out if he changes his story.

One of his team members, who collaborated on a lively story about an ET encounter in class, later alluded in private that the story was made up.
Another of his team members privately called what Greer does "religion".

The CSETI class was a waste of time and money, but it was a learning experience.
It taught me how to be discerning in these times when there are a lot of "false prophets".
In addition, "whistle-blowers" who hold Greer in high-esteem are big red flags to me.

Love you all, even those of you who want to intimidate me!

[Myplanet2]

Many people make the mistake of overlaying their own "qualitative judgement" as far as Good/Bad polarity goes, when talking about the Positive/Negative orientation. They are not synonymous, anywhere but in your mind.

We have all, each and everyone, almost without exception, experienced lives where we explored a positive or negative orientation, by personal choice. (some of the "new kids" may be the exceptions, as they descended to 3D consciousness right now for the express purpose of helping us through this shift by acting as a buffer or shock absorber for the heaviest of the negative energies) It doesn't matter at all whether you can consciously recall having done so, or not, or whether you recall the personal choice aspect as an active decision of yours, or not.

There are beings around who are of a negative orientation, and some who are of a positive, and ideally, these would be realistically split in some semblance of balance, so a game can occur. You can't pretend to play around in the light without the perception of dark at the same time. Polarity requires balance. Not one side dominating the other.

It's not an easy thing to wrap your wits around at first, but it's a useful exercise to examine how negative experiences were of service to you. They always are, in some way. There is always something to be learned or gleened from these encounters, and since we are in fact sovereign individuals, and cannot be otherwise, except by personal choice, we have in fact lined up, in another sphere of our consciousness, for these negative experiences. Kind of like the line up for a roller coaster. Those things can be scary and very negative while being experienced, but we line up (some of us) just the same. You might see this differently than lining up to participate in some horrendously negative seeming experience, but when enough of your consciousness has been freed from behind the veil of forgetfulness, you find yourself there with your buddy how just recently murdered you according to the script you set up, and you clap him/her on the back and proclaim, "that was a good one !!!, but was it necessary to twist that knife the extra time???"

We're much less likely to carry out "negative" deeds when we recall our experience of them from the other end of the stick.

Many ET's are still fulfilling there agreed upon roles as the negative mirrors for us to see ourselves within. What we forget about, is the sacrifice they make personally in doing so, and the ultimate benefit to us of being able to have that experience in our own search for who we really are and what's really going on.

Good and Bad are judgements made from within polarized states of being. It's from the consciousness level of the playing field. And there is nothing wrong with that, but it should also be known that the game is essentially over now, and the wrap up is underway, and it will be harder and harder over the next few years to hold onto the ideas of good and bad as separate things. We've solved all the various polarities, and are now sitting here, wondering why so many are still pretending otherwise.

Transitions often have an overlapping of confusion where the old and new mix and neither is yet the set reality. But from my, and many others perspective, it's already a done deal and we exit this transition in a state of balance and harmony, from which we will build our new reality for the next phase of our ascension back to who we truly are.

I got from Greer's chat that this was what he was referring to. I don't believe he would deny that negative things happen where ET's are involved, but only that these things are not naturally good or bad. ET's of a currently negative orientation, may do negative things, but we should try to avoid the additive value judgement that this makes them bad. What if they were asked, and agreed, to do these things so we could grow? what if many of us experiencing some of these negative seeming situations actually agreed to or even asked for them on a different, occluded level of our OWN consciousness?

Time and progress made in ones personal processing of these things will tell. While many of us have already made the determination and seen for ourselves how this goes, and have thereby shifted our perspective to one of understanding and balance.

[Carol]

Well said Fritz. Mahalo

Lisa, I truly am sorry that the team member you met was not committed to the truth as truth is what can stand on its own as time moves on. That person discredited his or herself and Dr. Greer, and I'm sure he would be saddened to learn they made up stories to impress others.

And I could also see that you would find the experience a waste of time and money as you were not yet ready for this. Meaning if you went with expectations of seeing sightings and alien entities and you were not inwardly emotionally/spiritually prepared for this to happen, your psyche would most likely prevent this from occurring for you.

When I had contact it was totally unexpected and quite a surprise. However, I experienced no fear during the experience and the situation was positive. ETs are telepathic. If they perceive someone is afraid they often won't make contact out of consideration for the person involved. Fear often prevents one from having these higher consciousness experiences with the alien entities that Greer is in contact with.

Dr. Greer does not have a job as he is not employed by anyone. He has a spiritual mission. This mission is not a religion although others may think of it as that if their own personal life experience is limited. The mission is Universal Brotherhood.

[trainedobserver]

Steven Greer is confronted in a way you have not heard in any Coast to Coast or Camelot interview on the Paracast. You simply MUST listen to this interview.

http://www.theparacast.com/podcast/o...jeff-ritzmann/

[trainedobserver]

If you are interested in the "real" Steven Greer you MUST read the OUTSIDE Magazine article written in September 1994.

DO NOT be taken in by this man's nonsense. Educate yourself.

www.mufon-ces.org/docs/outsidemagazine.pdf

[PilotSimone]

You're trying too hard, trainedobserver.

A good smear job is subtle.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by PilotSimone

You're trying too hard, trainedobserver.

A good smear job is subtle.

Good grief. Remain ignorant and manipulated if you wish or cultivate some critical thinking skills. Your choice.

The title of this thread is "Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!" You can choose to ignore the details if you wish but I will continue to provide them.

[PilotSimone]

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Good grief. Remain ignorant and manipulated if you wish or cultivate some critical thinking skills. Your choice.

The title of this thread is "Dr. Steven Greer, Disinfo Agent? Details Please!" You can choose to ignore the details if you wish but I will continue to provide them.

CSETI allowed a crew from CBS's 48 Hours "news show" to accompany an RMIT, March 20, 1994 to show its audience CSETI, doing real-time research in an area of known UFO/ET activity at Mount Popocatepetl in central Mexico. They got good footage. The story never aired.

The Story that 48 Hours Missed

In order to apply critical thinking skills, you must be willing to look at all sides of an issue. In the fall of 2008, I went, I saw, I was convinced. Direct experience always trumps written material, but not everyone can do that, so I offer the above as one example out of many.

By the way, if you are going to link to articles on a Mufon website, you might want to research Mufon's links to the CIA and history of involvement in cover-up of the really good sightings.

Cheers,

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Jnana

By the way, if you are going to link to articles on a Mufon website, you might want to research Mufon's links to the CIA and history of involvement in cover-up of the really good sightings.

Cheers,

Did you read the article? Obviously not. Put the crack pipe down.

[Jonah]

Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Jonah

Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...

I apologize. It was a bad joke.

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by Jonah

Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...

With friends like that....

[lisa]

Originally Posted by Jonah

Play nice... a trained observer can surely see that people do not have to smoke crack to be ill-informed...

What does it take to get this kinda Big Brother Moderator protection? I want some over here.

[Jonah]

Originally Posted by lisa

What does it take to get this kinda Big Brother Moderator protection? I want some over here.

Well you got it sister

Not saying anyone was ill-informed though..

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Did you read the article? Obviously not. Put the crack pipe down.

Uhm, yeah, I read it. So?

Turn on your thinking cap for a second. "Disinfo Agent" would mean Greer is working for TPTB. For the most part, they want the UFO issue kept out of public view. Failing that, they want all people who have seen UFOs to be viewed as nut cases. And, they want people to be afraid of ETs if they do happen to believe in them. Is there another "disinfo" story line where Greer plays a part? Who does he work for? How does this article say anything about any of that? Not at all, as far as I can see. In fact, it seems to be placing Greer in the position of another UFO nut case who is only interested in money. A routine smear job. Worse things have been said about the man.

Techniques I learned at CSETI produce results, and for me that is a profound and exciting thing. In that respect, I can say Greer is not a fraud. I have nothing to say about any of his other dealings.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Jnana

...Techniques I learned at CSETI produce results, and for me that is a profound and exciting thing. ...

Your cult-like devotion to Greer is obvious. Hopefully others will not be drawn into his fantasy world by your ...example. Greer is one of the worst things that has happened to Ufology in quite a long time and the evidence is out there for those with the where-with-all to process it. The study of Ufology reveals many such cult figures in its past.

The parallels between UFO cults and religious cults are very revealing and an equally absorbing study. You would find Nick Redfern's new book Contactees illuminating. I certainly wish you no ill will. But at some point you will have to face the reality of the situation ... or perhaps not. Good luck.

[PilotSimone]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Your cult-like devotion to Greer is obvious. Hopefully others will not be drawn into his fantasy world by your ...example. Greer is one of the worst things that has happened to Ufology in quite a long time and the evidence is out there for those with the where-with-all to process it. The study of Ufology reveals many such cult figures in its past.

The parallels between UFO cults and religious cults are very revealing and an equally absorbing study. You would find Nick Redfern's new book Contactees illuminating. I certainly wish you no ill will. But at some point you will have to face the reality of the situation ... or perhaps not. Good luck.

And when all else fails, accuse them of being cultists.

Thank you for being obvious about your intent here.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by PilotSimone

And when all else fails, accuse them of being cultists.

Thank you for being obvious about your intent here.

My "intent" is to get as many people as possible to avoid be taken in by such charlatans. My "intent" is for Ufology to crawl up out of the gutter of irrationality and purge itself of the role-playing fakes that clutter the field. I have no delusions that I will be in the least bit successful however.

Having been a long time member of a religious cult myself I recognize the pattern and it is there regardless of how strongly it is denied.

[tone3jaguar]

Trainedobserver,

have you ever gone and seen for yourself if the stories about calling in ET using the CSETI protocols are real or not? Or are you just pulling assumptions out of thin air based off of your own universal paradigm. From what I can see that is exactly what is happening. Perhaps you do not want it to be true that our consciousness has the power to reach outside of ourselves and communicate with spiritually advanced societies? Maby that would smash the comfort zone you are living in?

I like you had my doubts. I had already experienced some extremely unbelievable paranormal things happen in my life. So I went to one of the CSETI outings to see for myself if it was real or not. I tend to base my opinions upon evidence, not conjecture. Sometimes that evidence I use to form my opinions is fuzzy to some poeple. However, as long as I have learned to trust it I integrate it.

I was lucky enough to be living within a few hours of Asheville N.C. last year and went to the one day event there. Let me tell you, either Greer is the master of illusion or he is the real deal. We had all kinds of contact and we where only a few miles outside of Asheville. There where multiple people there with night vision scopes. During and after the protocol meditation, there where light orbs floating all around the group. I could see them without the night vision, but most could not. However on the night vision they where like something out of a special effects movie.

Independent people brought there own radar / laser detectors and these little off the shelf devices became interactive with what people where sharing they experienced during the meditation. Explain how out in the middle of a peice of farm land that multiple independent radar / laser detectors are going off on different bands of radar or laser at different times?

Not only that we had a craft fly overhead of the group. It was very high up in the upper part of the atmosphere. However, it was brighter than Venus and made an angular turn at what was probably at least a thousand MPH if not more. Then suddenly it went dim and turned into what looked like a normal aircraft with blinking lights on it.

Also multiple people saw the holographic image of a being emerging from the edge of the tall grass at the edge of the field. One person even caught a frame of it on their camera. It was not in your face, but there was something there. We also had a cloaked ufo strobe and interact with the lasers about 30 degrees off of the horizon multiple times.

After you experience stuff like this, you tend to have a paradigm shift and begin to understand why there is so much smear stuff posted about Greer. It is not a cult for the simple fact that Greer tells all of the people he trains that they should do it on their own and that he does not have to be around to get results. He also tells people not to follow him because he is no more special than anyone else.

Do your research and stop making assumptions that protect the box you think in.

[Jnana]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

My "intent" is for Ufology to crawl up out of the gutter of irrationality and purge itself of the role-playing fakes that clutter the field.

One of the best works in the field that I have seen is Richard Dolan's series of books on "UFOs and the National Security State". Besides documented sightings, he discusses the various mechanisms put in place to manage the cover up. Among these mechanisms is infiltration and control of civilian UFO organizations. Dolan provides references and names names. All civilian UFO organizations are infiltrated and controlled to some degree. Greer has stated that this is his reason for staying separate from the rest of the field. I met a fellow who was a Mufon field investigator many years back. He related an incident where one of his superiors in Mufon fabricated a balloon, launched it, and then used that as an excuse for labelling a very good case report as a hoax. I know of a lady who recently reported a sighting to Mufon and made the mistake of saying that it was the result of using Greer's protocols. The case report was promptly deleted. Evidently CE5s are not part of the approved Mufon message.

I fail to see how denying entire classes of phenomena is "rational". A truly curious person would investigate, even if such phenomena challenged his or her notions of what is real and possible. At one time, talking about landings was not considered "respectable" and mainstream ufologists avoided it. Talk about crashes and beings was likewise avoided. Over time, these things became accepted and now we have astronauts talking about such things on the record.

I'm not sure what aspect of Greer's protocols for establishing contact you would consider "irrational". Being a hard core atheist until just a few years ago, I have some ideas. I can certainly understand how any material for general publication would be in danger of being disregarded as nonsensical for talking about telepathic contact and such things. However, I personally am no longer able to deny that such things are possible. I'm an empericist - this is due to observation and experience, not belief.

If you dig enough, you will find that even the sciences are controlled to prevent the discovery of certain things. The real nature of gravity is one of those things. How do you UFOs move silently, going from hovering to thousands of miles per hour at great accelerations? Field propulsion is not feasible with our current understanding of physics. Should that be used as a reason for denying observations of UFO performance?

I think you've nailed it, though. This is all very much about what we consider real and "rational".

[trainedobserver]

I've already posted enough on Greer. If folks still want to engage in his nonsense then so be it. I had no delusions of actually convincing anyone of anything. It is obvious to many serious researchers that Greer is a determent to Ufology.

The incredible amount of B.S. in what passes for Ufology has discouraged many serious investigators and caused them to abandon or consider abandoning the field. When they do all you will have left is the confidence men tickling the ears of the non-critical thinking general population.

The phenomena is real enough however I am almost convinced that it will never be understood because it does not want to be. The mystery and secrecy surrounding the phenomena is not controlled or owned by the government or any other human entity. It is owned and controlled by the phenomena itself. When this sinks into all of our heads we'll see a new wave of discouragement and abandonment I'm sure.

Light shows and "feeling special" about their "expanded consciousness" will keep the cultists and the deluded happy and the con-men clothed and feed but it will not led to open contact, any real information, or progress.

[tone3jaguar]

So I guess that is a no.