Solution to the Authority Hoax: If it isn’t simple, it isn’t accurate.

[wfranzen]

Steven,

Let me clear up what seems to be a common misconception concerning the old Latin mass, at least as far as the language issue goes -- especially since this is the second time this week I have heard something like your claim.

In the first place, the sermons were in the vernacular (English or German in my case), so there was no problem understanding the sermons. The rite itself was in Latin, and it was the same every week so people just picked up Latin (translations were available ).

To someone unfamiliar with the Mass, looking in, it may have appeared as incomprehensible mumbo jumbo, but I assure you, this was not the case. You could go to a Catholic church anywhere in the world and understand what was going on (of course you may not have understood the sermon!).

You may have problems with Catholicism for other reasons (and many people on this forum do), but please stop propagating this “urban myth”.

wfranzen

[Kulapops]

I would say you could apply exactly this technique for discerning breaking alternative media stories...

I've been on about this recently...

as in KPs 'story' filter:

1) Known Fact plus 2) complicated believable truth = Hoax

It's just a rule of thumb, mind...

No need for anyone to get bent out of shape by it , a truth is a truth wherever you find it, it always speaks for itself.

Peace

K

[feardia]

Originally Posted by wfranzen

Steven,

Let me clear up what seems to be a common misconception concerning the old Latin mass, at least as far as the language issue goes -- especially since this is the second time this week I have heard something like your claim.

In the first place, the sermons were in the vernacular (English or German in my case), so there was no problem understanding the sermons. The rite itself was in Latin, and it was the same every week so people just picked up Latin (translations were available ).

To someone unfamiliar with the Mass, looking in, it may have appeared as incomprehensible mumbo jumbo, but I assure you, this was not the case. You could go to a Catholic church anywhere in the world and understand what was going on (of course you may not have understood the sermon!).

You may have problems with Catholicism for other reasons (and many people on this forum do), but please stop propagating this “urban myth”.

wfranzen

The Latin mass was mumbo jumbo to everyone but the priests (most of whom hadn't a clue either), I was an altar boy and had to learn the whole mass in Latin, it was still used at funerals in the 1960's, we learned by rote, never learning the translation.

In the 1960's Sunday Mass was in English following Vatican II and the flyers had both English and Latin side by side, before that all masses were in Latin so they could have been performing all sorts of witchcraft to the ignorant people most of whom were illiterate until universal education became available following WWII.

Of course the sermons were in the native language, otherwise how could the flock be guided?

[viking]

Originally Posted by feardia

The Latin mass was mumbo jumbo to everyone but the priests (most of whom hadn't a clue either), I was an altar boy and had to learn the whole mass in Latin, it was still used at funerals in the 1960's, we learned by rote, never learning the translation.

In the 1960's Sunday Mass was in English following Vatican II and the flyers had both English and Latin side by side, before that all masses were in Latin so they could have been performing all sorts of witchcraft to the ignorant people most of whom were illiterate until universal education became available following WWII.

Of course the sermons were in the native language, otherwise how could the flock be guided?

Totally agree Feardia and Steven ....

Ii was also a altar boy (amonst other things!!)...so I can relate to what you are saying...Why confuse with mumbo jumbo...No one within our circle had a clue what message was being given!! A farce!!

KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!

viking

[wfranzen]

Feardia, Viking, Steven,

I make several mistakes in/by making my original post.

1) By making a comment about an issue I ultimately care so little about. I have "no dog in that hunt" as they say, and am not sorry that the Latin mass is (mostly) history. What prompted my remark was sort of a "last straw breaking the camel's back" phenomenon. I have been having my nose tweaked over that past two years by comments on sites like Avalon and others aimed at the Catholic Church, Christianity, and more generally members/followers of organized religions. These posts seem to universally go unchallenged. Within the last week I have been annoyed by comments on another site that I felt deliberately omitted facts and twisted the rest. I also thought some comments in the latest Dot Connector were over the top including the claim that essentially all members of organized religions were mind controlled slaves (it seems Viking may agree though). So I made a comment about something I thought was literally not true based on my experience, and here is where there was another problem, namely

2) a) Making the mistake that my experience was unquestionably the common one and b) that the discussion would not then go on to larger issues. Not that is matters in the grand scheme of things, but I did check with my mom, and since my parents emmigrated to the US in 1956 the German translations of the mass were available in the missals at the church they/we were attending. So Feardia and Viking, when you state your experience was different, I accept that, but don’t make the claim that nobody new what was going on - that is not true either.

Feardia, sorry that your experience was so unpleasant/spiritually unfulfilling/repugnant? But when you make the statement “so they could have been performing all sorts of witchcraft to the ignorant people most of whom were illiterate until universal education became available following WWII”, we are not even on the same planet. This is an example of the type of statement I was talking about in 1) above. And the fact that well over a day and a half later, no one was else was bothered to comment on it speaks volumes for the mindset here at Avalon.

wfranzen

[viking]

Originally Posted by wfranzen

. I also thought some comments in the latest Dot Connector were over the top including the claim that essentially all members of organized religions were mind controlled slaves (it seems Viking may agree though).

Hi Franzen...

Religions at most part have been introduced over time to control the mass population. I am not saying all people have been taken in by this but the vast majority have been subjected to this type of brainwashing. Let herd the sheeple to the churches. CONTROL ... small part of it ...!

Come on without religions and borders how would the PTW manipulate wars against each other?? Thus feeding there own agenda two fold...money and emotion... Its a vicious circle and it goes on and on and on!! Jump out of the loop to the realisation that religions are an invention by the power hungry elite to control us!!

viking

[Steven]

Originally Posted by wfranzen

Steven,

Let me clear up what seems to be a common misconception concerning the old Latin mass, at least as far as the language issue goes -- especially since this is the second time this week I have heard something like your claim...

Hello Wfranzen. I am sorry if I offended you in some ways, I will withdraw my example, it was only an example anyway.

I want to assure you that I really respect many many aspect in All religions, including mine, which is catholic. It does not bother me to be baptised at all, but I do not go to assist church celebration since if I had the chance to say out loud my own spirituality in a celebration, I wouldn't make much friends out there, hehe.

Here is a post I made to show how important Christ is to me.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...881#post223881

Namaste, Steven

[wfranzen]

Hello Steven, and Viking.

This is the first time I have revisited this thread since my last post. After some reflection, I believe I overreacted greatly and would like to apologize to the both of you. I will also be sending an email directly to Feardia.

Peace

wfranzen

[viking]

Hey no worries Franzen...

viking

[Céline]

“Complicated” is a characteristic of either those who do not “know” or explanations by those who do not want us to “know”. “Simple” is always gentler, smoother, and more concise; ergo, more accurate.


absolutly great advice worth repeating..

K.I.S.S.

Keep It Simple Sweety (stupid works to...or sexy lol )

[Clarityofawareness]

Did I recently post something similar to this post?

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20272

How simple or not should anything be before we label it being what ever? That's why I'm exploring more perspectives concerning what I call "the blame game". Such as who's fault is any hoax? All this, is a subject that seems so deep that it's easily "labeled" extremely taboo or even secretive for any society to explore. I did not come to this post in order to change it's topic. So please do not discuss the above link here. At least to a certain degree? I dunno. I try to be as polite as I can and I'm not here to step on anybody's shoes. I just believe that all reality is one or connected. There are no separation except that which you chose experience with.

Kevin