CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Majorion

My God man, then why are you even here on this forum?

I second this view. B&K get quite a bit of garbage information thrown their way. Many of the whistleblowers B&K interview are just relaying information that they have been given. They are genuine and real and they are not lying, but most of them aren't really qualified to substantiate whether their information is real either. That's why we need people like Cliff and that's why we need to research these people's backgrounds and the topic matter as much as we can.

I'm here because the people are here real and yet awakened to what is happening in the world. Most of the whistleblowers live in a world of government protocols and systems. They aren't real. We are.

--sjkted

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by sjkted

That's why we need people like Cliff and that's why we need to research these people's backgrounds and the topic matter as much as we can.

I've listened to Cliff High before, but personally, I don't need anyone to tell me whose qualified and whose lying, and whose a fraud, etc. These are distinctions best left to people's own intuitions and research, because ultimately that's the way things have always been and people will follow whatever they want anyway.

Suggesting a 'need' for some third party analysis when people can do their own analysis and come to their own conclusions, is absurd.

Peace

[Kulapops]

If anyone needs to know what's real, here's a tip.

Just turn off this computer and sit still for three minutes.

There you go, there you are. It's you. Weclome. Is that real enough for you?

Real is happening now. It's only happening now. It doesn't come tomorrow.

If you are preparing right now for a 1000m wall of water heading for your house. Then that is your reality.

There's nothing wrong with that reality. But I don't feel like it's me. I'm not good with 1000m of water. Doesn't seem that I was born to deal with that amount of free universal hand-out.

So I'm going to try and stick to what I know. I'm just watching Greg Braden's 7 parter on youtube... and I have to say I feel a lot better watching that than reading up on boats. Maybe I'm deluded, Cliff talks about the one's who deal with fear , rather than threats.

But here's the kicker... WE ALL DIE.

Sometime.

What are you doing to prepare for that inevitable event? Got enough paper and glue? Bought enough dried food for that one?

What is real is what is real to you. And we are all one. There is no right or objective wrong, only your perfect expression of the collective atoms that is you. How could you fo anything, but what you were born for?

Love yas

K

[aroundthetable]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

If anyone needs to know what's real, here's a tip.

Just turn off this computer and sit still for three minutes.
K

could only manage 30 secs here

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

If anyone needs to know what's real, here's a tip.

If you are preparing right now for a 1000m wall of water heading for your house. Then that is your reality.

There's nothing wrong with that reality. But I don't feel like it's me. I'm not good with 1000m of water. Doesn't seem that I was born to deal with that amount of free universal hand-out.

You must not live right on the beach close enough to see the waves coming and going every day. I've felt for the last few years like I'm about to be a planned refugee somewhere. I'm not sure exactly where, but I really don't see beach living being all that viable for that much longer.

What's interesting is that if you look at all of the posts from intuitives in California on Avalon, many people are repeating the same message.

I'm not 100% sold that it's an inevitability, but it never hurts to be ready.

--sjkted

[UncleJohn]

Originally Posted by sjkted

What's interesting is that if you look at all of the posts from intuitives in California on Avalon, many people are repeating the same message.

Well, I'm an intuitive living in California. What I've surmised over the many years is that people that don't live in California are jealous. Their states don't have the Hollywood, the Googles, the Intels, etc, etc. So they dream up stupid things like California falling into the ocean.

So the message from California somewhat agrees with the message from the above poster. Don't move to California. We already have enough people here.

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

Well, I'm an intuitive living in California. What I've surmised over the many years is that people that don't live in California are jealous. Their states don't have the Hollywood, the Googles, the Intels, etc, etc. So they dream up stupid things like California falling into the ocean.

I agree about outsiders being jealous. I've traveled to other states and I understand.

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

So the message from California somewhat agrees with the message from the above poster. Don't move to California. We already have enough people here.

I wouldn't go that far to tell people not to move here, but we are losing population for the first time ever. There's a good reason with the state being bankrupt, the mortgage crisis, the home prices still being way overvalued, and the general business environment. This is a hard place to make it.

I'm not so sure about the earth changes being a hoax by jealous outsiders. I've seen in dreams what appears to be the area where I am living entirely engulfed in water and I have been watching for signs that this may happen. I'm not sure it's a pole shift or a massive earthquake, but either way if you look at details for the liquefaction zone and the people who are living there, we are not very well set up to handle much of anything higher than a brief 6.0 earthquake.

--sjkted

[Kulapops]

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

Well, I'm an intuitive living in California. What I've surmised over the many years is that people that don't live in California are jealous. Their states don't have the Hollywood, the Googles, the Intels, etc, etc. So they dream up stupid things like California falling into the ocean.

So the message from California somewhat agrees with the message from the above poster. Don't move to California. We already have enough people here.

That's an interesting notion. See people, are people. that much we know about them, and they are liable to do peoply kind of things. Getting jealous is an artform we have developed much better than clairvoyancy so far. In fact, I'm surprised we can't take qualifications in it!

I agree with you skjted, there is no reason not to be prepared, and each must follow their own intuitions. Problem for me though is that I can't hold both kinds of preparations in my head any more. I have to choose, but that's just me, I'm not preaching here (cuh!.. or I'd have to set up my own website ). I bought tins. I even have a 10kg sack of rice I bought in Sep 08... That just gives me a warm feeling every night just knowing it's there. (no, it doesn't actually... no more so than a mercedes 120 Sk class would sitting on my drive.)

That cupboard has felt dead and stuck ever since I filled it with food. Most of it has probably gone off by now too. every time I look at that cupboard it reminds me of a disasterous future. One of which I have no 'guarantee' is going to arrive.

However, each time I say, 'I love you' to someone on this forum, it does fill me with warmth. Each time I say... that's great... I love what you did there...I feel good. That is real, and that is now.. and ultimately that is where my fate lies... even if that fate is only three years long

So bless us, everyone. We have the freedom, luck and time to discuss the number of angels on the head of the pin. One of us might get close to the answer.

Do I believe that Cliff High alone has stumbled onto a rare secret of the universe. Perhaps... but maybe it can just reinvent itself tomorrow too.

Love does seem to be rather a constant, whichever way we look at things.

K

P.S. I can see the sea from my bedroom window... and it looks beautiful if I see the sun rise over it.

[aroundthetable]

Originally Posted by Majorion

I've listened to Cliff High before, but personally, I don't need anyone to tell me whose qualified and whose lying, and whose a fraud, etc. These are distinctions best left to people's own intuitions and research, because ultimately that's the way things have always been and people will follow whatever they want anyway.

Suggesting a 'need' for some third party analysis when people can do their own analysis and come to their own conclusions, is absurd.

Peace

roger that

[Kulapops]

I'm sure there was a time when telling the future through badger's spleens was cutting edge. I'm sure they had their reasons why Norwegian Badger was simply the best and most accurate kind of badger around for the job.

Still , when you're the king who paid 15 Groats for the report and you're standing there with an arrow in your eye, you look kinda silly.

One thing you learn from history, is that no one ever learns from history.

So why should time machines, or whistleblowers be any different, than they have been through all time.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, of course. I like Cliff and respect him. I also like Bill and Kerry, without them, there'd be no discussion (not here, anyway). I like the idea that time machine web-botting can work. But my willingness to believe in things is apt to get me into trouble. We have to look for concrete 'subjective' evidence that the universe works as we think it does.

Did Cliff have a prediction in for the 12th Jan in Haiti ?

Are Bill and Kerry writing to him and asking him why not?

Some one said, you point the finger... and three point straight back at you.

I'm trying to wave my hands around these days in opendish kinda gestures.

K

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Majorion

I've listened to Cliff High before, but personally, I don't need anyone to tell me whose qualified and whose lying, and whose a fraud, etc. These are distinctions best left to people's own intuitions and research, because ultimately that's the way things have always been and people will follow whatever they want anyway.

Suggesting a 'need' for some third party analysis when people can do their own analysis and come to their own conclusions, is absurd.

Peace

As you know, much of the issues we are looking at are very complex. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not an expert in physics, chemistry, astronomy, ancient languages, religion, etc.

In many cases such as the Zacharia Stichin discussion, one needs to be a subject expert in order to weigh in a qualified decision.

The other main issue is time. I have a full time job and I would imagine other people on here do something other than Avalon full time. I do my best to investigate each of these topics, but I can't possibly cover all angles due to time constraints.

In other words, there's nothing wrong with the Cliff Notes (pun intended). :-)

Yes, we can all do our own analysis, but it will obviously be heavily biased based on our own strengths, knowledge, and weaknesses. That is, unless YOU really do know everything.

--sjkted

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by sjkted

As you know, much of the issues we are looking at are very complex. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not an expert in physics, chemistry, astronomy, ancient languages, religion, etc.

Nor do I claim to be an expert on these things either.
However I doubt that kind of complex knowledge is required in order for one to discern a genuine individual from a possible fraud. Because I was under the impression that this is the issue expressed in this thread, correct? About some or 'all' of the PC whistleblowers? - this has nothing to do with religion, languages, astronomy, etc. And Zecharia Sitchen is a moot point... if you consider yourself inadequately capable of discerning Sitchen's work using your own common sense, then that's your problem, not everyone else's.

When you say: "Yes, we can all do our own analysis, but it will obviously be heavily biased"

I ask you, and this wouldn't be the case with Cliff High as well?

So you're basically saying that we should depend on the views of Cliff High for discerning genuine honest individuals from outright liars? His opinion isn't biased, only ours?

If you don't have the time to do your own investigation, nor have the inclination, and you really find the matter so difficult, then you probably do need someone to force their opinion on you. But this isn't the case with me, and I'm sure not the case with most other people as well.

Peace

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Nor do I claim to be an expert on these things either.
However I doubt that kind of complex knowledge is required in order for one to discern a genuine individual from a possible fraud. Because I was under the impression that this is the issue expressed in this thread, correct? About some or 'all' of the PC whistleblowers? - this has nothing to do with religion, languages, astronomy, etc. And Zecharia Sitchen is a moot point... if you consider yourself inadequately capable of discerning Sitchen's work using your own common sense, then that's your problem, not everyone else's.

When you say: "Yes, we can all do our own analysis, but it will obviously be heavily biased"

I ask you, and this wouldn't be the case with Cliff High as well?

So you're basically saying that we should depend on the views of Cliff High for discerning genuine honest individuals from outright liars? His opinion isn't biased, only ours?

Of course not. I say be your own guru. Discern for yourself. Having other people's research to view is very helpful, but it's no substitute for fact checking and figuring it out yourself.

Of course, Cliff's opinion is biased. I mentioned earlier that he is a little imbalanced (too much intellectual and not too much spiritual).

The point I've been making here and trying to bring out is that B&K ought to be focused on a balanced message. I'm not saying don't interview Bill Deagle. I'm suggesting they act like responsible journalists ought to be and interview a number of different sources with different information and diverse areas of expertise. Facts should be checked and scrutinized.

With B&K, no facts are checked and Bill defends the whistleblower's views based on loyalty. They act as though they are building upon this "knowledge" with subsequent interviews, when in reality they are just building a house of cards with some really good, entertaining, wild stories that in many cases happen to be untrue and misleading.

If they were really looking for the truth, when they had an honest challenge from someone like Cliff on a whistleblower (Deagle's) testimony, they would be at the very least open to researching further, as opposed to just accepting Deagle's word on blind faith.

--sjkted

[UncleJohn]

Originally Posted by sjkted

If they were really looking for the truth, when they had an honest challenge from someone like Cliff on a whistleblower (Deagle's) testimony, they would be at the very least open to researching further, as opposed to just accepting Deagle's word on blind faith.

Are we living in the same Project Camelot world? Nowhere did Kerry and Bill state that they were accepting any testimony on blind faith.

If you don't think that Kerry and Bill should be doing what they are doing, then why are you here?

Cliff High? Half Past Human? Think about these names. What are the odds?

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

Are we living in the same Project Camelot world? Nowhere did Kerry and Bill state that they were accepting any testimony on blind faith.

If you don't think that Kerry and Bill should be doing what they are doing, then why are you here?

Cliff High? Half Past Human? Think about these names. What are the odds?

I thought this was all old news. See the whole thread at http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...gh+accusations and my letter to Bill Ryan on his thread.

I don't watch B&K interviews any more. I just can't bring myself to watch. I tried a few times, but.... I can't.

I mentioned above why I am here. I am here because there are real people and that is something that lacking much in the world of the profane.

I like B&K, but I think they are being highly misled and are failing to question much of this information for themselves. It's probably easiest to just see the thread above to understand my position.

--sjkted

[Kulapops]

Originally Posted by sjkted

The point I've been making here and trying to bring out is that B&K ought to be focused on a balanced message.
--sjkted

I think they have a balanced message purely by running the forum.

Plenty of people discuss their affairs and videos pro and con on here.

When I first came to camelot, I watched most of the vids, lapped them up. I think it was only when I got to Dan B, that my own internal radar went 'hmmm' . But I liked B & K, they seem raw, they seem earnest and , like me, not perfect.

But yes, the rabbit hole leads to a warren, and for me, it's not long before one doubt throws up ten more. It's impossible to figure out at our level (i think) what is going on at their level. So that's when I start zooming back out again. There is no objective reality to discover. Certainly not by perusing websites. How can any of us really know any of these people as well as we know ourselves? Except to the extent of knowing that if i'm not perfect...there's a good chance they can be misled about stuff too.

I still don't get Grangdons from the planet Arrghh. I'm surely showing my ignorance to the zillion people who've had ET contact. But until I have one in for coffee, I'll remain skeptical that they are channeling important info about the fate of the galaxy. I respect that other's may be equally skeptical at the idea we are all one, and the way forward is via a quantum universe, in which the outcome is decided at a personal level of consciousness.

Who am I trying to convince ?? Me or this thread?

I agree with you sktjed... we have to be our own guru. But I am glad for B&K, and Cliff and George and even Dan B because without them, I could not discuss these matters.

K

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

I think they have a balanced message purely by running the forum.

They have done a great thing by putting this forum up and inviting people here. Aside from that, it's the members who make this forum.

Their message is based 100% on whistleblowers and the "official reports".

Below is what I wrote to Bill on the Bill Ryan's thread:

Originally Posted by sjkted

One strategy by TPTB to prevent disclosure is when there is a big incident to intentionally write up a bona fide document on the incident that is filled with disinformation and then give it to a certain number of insiders, whom they know will eventually leak the document. There will then be another document describing the real incident which is then given to a substantially smaller number of people and heavily controlled.

This serves two purposes: (1) TPTB know that if there is a serious incident that some leaks cannot be prevented and that people like us will be researching it and trying to find out what happened. By leaking an official document filled with disinfo, it passifies us into not looking for the real information and convinces us we have found all we are looking for. (2) It causes us to believe a lie which can be used in the future to manipulate anyone who has been briefed by the "disinfo" document.

My point in stating this is that if this is the case, nearly all of your sources would correlate the same information, since they had intentionally been given the disinfo document. They would believe what they were telling you and their documentation would be official. The only way this could be disproven would be by trying to correlate the details with outside sources.

Because this really does happen, it is critical to have outside sources that are not based on black ops whistleblowers.

--sjkted

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Nor do I claim to be an expert on these things either.
I doubt that kind of complex knowledge is required in order for one to discern a genuine individual from a possible fraud. Because I was under the impression that this is the issue expressed in this thread, correct?

Majorion: Please see my last post. I'm not saying that anyone is a fraud. I think most if not all of the PC interviews are genuine people who are not lying. The problem is the information they are presenting. If Bill Deagle talks to B&K about seeing documents on underground bases being built at a rate of two per day, etc. I'm not calling Deagle a liar. I'll bet he actually did see that paper or documentation he mentioned. What I'm saying is that that doesn't necessarily mean the information is correct.

Therefore, what I am saying is that the PC witnesses are not frauds or deception themselves, but much of the unverified information they are spreading is simply incorrect.

--sjkted

[Slerbo]

Harshly critical comments and then you finish with 'Peace'? Some people hammer others, everyone spouting their 'important' opinions - and then finish with the barf inducing 'love and light'.

Who cares...

Goodbye.

Originally Posted by Majorion

Nor do I claim to be an expert on these things either.
However I doubt that kind of complex knowledge is required in order for one to discern a genuine individual from a possible fraud. Because I was under the impression that this is the issue expressed in this thread, correct? About some or 'all' of the PC whistleblowers? - this has nothing to do with religion, languages, astronomy, etc. And Zecharia Sitchen is a moot point... if you consider yourself inadequately capable of discerning Sitchen's work using your own common sense, then that's your problem, not everyone else's.

When you say: "Yes, we can all do our own analysis, but it will obviously be heavily biased"

I ask you, and this wouldn't be the case with Cliff High as well?

So you're basically saying that we should depend on the views of Cliff High for discerning genuine honest individuals from outright liars? His opinion isn't biased, only ours?

If you don't have the time to do your own investigation, nor have the inclination, and you really find the matter so difficult, then you probably do need someone to force their opinion on you. But this isn't the case with me, and I'm sure not the case with most other people as well.

Peace

[mu2143]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mu2143
O what was the subject again hmmmm let me think whistleblowers on Project Camelot and that means all whistleblowers on Project Camelot.

He's referring to Bill Deagle per the prior thread and he's talking about Bill and Kerry's method. I don't think he's calling BS on every single whistleblower from Camelot.

And this part then on
http://halfpasthuman.com/timeexpo2.html

My bitch with the presenters, Project Camelot, is that they hypocritically state that their mission is to present the information that they are given by the whistleblowers and allow the viewer to make their own discernment as to its validity and reality. What Project Camelot is doing is expressed in many of the written parts of their site where they include references to ‘belief’. They repeatedly state that they (project camelot) believe that their source or whistleblower ‘believes’ their ‘testimony’, and therefore Project Camelot supports the position taken by that ‘whistleblower’.

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by Slerbo

Harshly critical comments and then you finish with 'Peace'?

Would you rather I said "war"......?

Some people hammer others, everyone spouting their 'important' opinions - and then finish with the barf inducing 'love and light'.

Anti nausea pills are dirt cheap.

Who cares...

Apparently, you do.

[Slerbo]

Touche'!

[gibonos]

[clarkkent]

well...

whether you believe Cliff's forecasting apparatus or not , im glad he brought to light the same things ive thought for over a year regarding PC.

i first started reseacrhing all this "conspiracy/alternative/paranormal" about a year and a half ago when i read on Aintitcoolnews.com ( a movie site, im a movie buff) there was a link to edgar mitchell talking about aliens and UFO's being real.

this blew me away and i started to look into it, and of course once you go there or "down the rabbit hole" as everyone likes to say it leads you to vast amounts of theories and data. it changed my outlook permanently and lead to metaphysical and spiritual outlook changes in myself.

suffice to say in my research i stumbled upon PC. initially i was blown away by all the info, bob dean, st clair, zagami , burisch etc etc

i would hang on every new interview or statement that B and K put out- with each new tidbit my worldview was blown as things got crazier and scarier, deagle being a primary fearmonger.

then as i grew used to this info and sought other venues of info i began to notice a distinct slant at PC, the worst MOST alarmist world ending ideas.. invasion body snatching, martial law , illuminatti fear fear blah blah--it was all here and given higher priority than other info.

i saw how "whistleblowers" holes in their stories were never questioned everything was accepted as long as it fit into PC's alarmist apocolyptic xenophobic view. when the world didnt end or was taken over in october of 2008 i knew for sure i was being fed BS.

soon after PC got a big head and started acting rude and making waves at exoplotic conferences or belittling and mocking interviewees who didnt preach the "bad' alien agenda (greer and the pickering brothers)
they burned bridges and whistleblowers they counted as friends became outspoken in their disagreements with B and K.

we all know the story from here on out. people get mad on the forums and say "well WHY are you here???" - well im here because this is a public forum where the readers are informed about subjects none of my friends are, people here are receptive to intelligent discourse (some not all )

for me Cliff articulated the very source of B and K's misguided attempts at getting to some sort of 'truth" they inadvertently believe and propagate many UN truths, sadly.

im just glad to see people seeing the same things i am and be able to think for themsleves and not believe outright any one source of information, for my money HPH is pretty alarmist too, the reports are never positive and the "summer of hell" was like anyother summer for me, actually it was pretty fun.

so i would say, thanks to Cliff for the articulation, and getting people discussing it here in the forums- agree or disagree at least theres a dialogue.

-clark

http://superstrangeland.blogspot.com/

[gibonos]

right on Clarky

but I think we should discuss what's in his article as well

like I stated before if time travel is possible why would you need underground bases for "2012", instead just move yourself to 2013?

gibonos