Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

[Carol]

There is a long list of those who dumped B&K. What one should ask is why.

[puke]

An interface to something......yes
An interface to something "higher"...becomes a matter of definition.

I was surprized that Clif spent any energy at all making a reply on the forum.

I was almost equally surprized that Bill spent time on a reply to Clif.

We all have enough discretion not to need either one of those to tell us what we think of Deagle, Dan, or (insert name here). Although having another forum is a good place to glean info. and then discern.

Nuff said.

[YinYangMind]

[SIZE="2"]Quote:
Originally Posted by petem
hi bill,
Your statements regarding Clif High hiring a "PI" to research Dr Bill has raised many an eyebrow among us Avalon veterans.

Thanks for this - this is one of a number of questions asked in this thread and on the one dedicated to discussing the issue.

The issue is sensitive, so I’ll just say this:

1) Kerry immediately invited Clif to her radio show so that he could discuss the issues with me and her. He declined.

2) My view remains firm that Clif High should not be investigating (and drawing conclusions from) Bill Deagle’s private finances with an intention to discredit him. And this IS his intention.

3) I was physically present in the room with Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann) when he talked with Bill Deagle for 45 minutes in early December 2007, which included a fascinating exchange about classified projects, project locations, codewords and clearances. It was the first time they had spoken.

There was absolutely no doubt that the conversation was genuine and that Bill Deagle and Henry were both in the many places they stated they were. I'm personally convinced that (like Henry) Bill Deagle is well-intentioned, is a brave and principled man, and has told the truth as best as he knows it.

If Clif High has a different view, he has a right to that. But in my opinion Clif would be best advised to focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers without going out of his way to denigrate them publicly, digging up private financial information in order to try to do so.

Well, I'm not sure how the rest of those who have expressed interested in this topic will feel about Bill's response to this particular question from his thread, but for what it's worth, here's my observation...

1. Out of the several posts, comments, questions regarding Bill's initial pathetic response to Clif's open letter, Bill either has not seen the other posts/questions on his thread about it, or has completly ignored them and certainly hasn't seen the thread here...or maybe he has which may explain the response above.

2. Not sure when Kerry invited Clif on her radio show ('if' this is true, wouldn't it have made sense for Bill to make that known to those of us who have/were interested in seeing closure on this?) but Clif stated on his web site about two weeks ago that all interviews for January were canceled due to personal responsibilities which may explain why he declined...Clif is certainly not shy nor intimidated by Bill or Kerry and would, without a doubt, clearly articulate his position with which I'm sure Kerry would struggle with...wonder if Bill would have been on the show as well??? After all, it's Bill who has the issue here, not Kerry.

3. Is Bill suffering some memory loss? In his mini mea-culpa to Clif's open letter, he stated that he (Bill) was incorrect in stating that Clif had hired a PI to investigate Deagle and Clif clearly stated that he did not investigate Deagle's finances, yet Bill states in this response that Clif 'should not be investigating someones personal finances with the intention to discredit him...and that IS his intention!' Wow! Not only did Clif not do what Bill aledges, but makes another 'claim' of what Clif's intentions are without providing evidence or proof! Clif simply did what the rest of us have asked B&K to do with their 'whistleblowers'...

4. Here we go again...complete support without considering or addressing the well documented, public facts (some of which contain financial information without 'digging') of the many nefarious issues surrounding Deagle...there are none so blind as they who will not see!

5. Bill should take his own advice given to Clif in his last statement of the response...in fact, Clif does exactly what Bill suggests... 'focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers' and either supports quantifyable data (LaViolette, Geryl, etc.) or calls them out (Deagle, et al) when he finds supporting data/information/evidence...the only objective Clif ever expresses is facts and truth, not blind acceptance and loyalty.

This has pretty much sealed the loss of any trust and respect I've had for B&K, and I've promoted their work to many over the years. In fact, it has mostly been Bill who I thought had the best grasp and conduct throughout the interviews where Kerry just seemed to struggle, Bill picked up the pieces.

To all of the PA members who have taken the high road with 'can't we all get along, peace, love, brotherhood, personal space/place in time, spiritual growth in one's own time, higher this & that, back at ya and I wish you well. For me, the 'policitally correct, love your brother in spirit' perspective is just a little to wishy-washy when it comes to human discourse and interaction, in fact, the universe is both hard and soft in it's expression and manifestation and sometimes it takes you to the mat and it's time to get tough. I hope my statements and comments are taken for what they are...

'Always speak your mind and thoughts, those who matter won't mind and those who mind don't matter!'

Peace,
YinYangMind]

[sjkted]

3. Is Bill suffering some memory loss? In his mini mea-culpa to Clif's open letter, he stated that he (Bill) was incorrect in stating that Clif had hired a PI to investigate Deagle and Clif clearly stated that he did not investigate Deagle's finances, yet Bill states in this response that Clif 'should not be investigating someones personal finances with the intention to discredit him...and that IS his intention!' Wow! Not only did Clif not do what Bill aledges, but makes another 'claim' of what Clif's intentions are without providing evidence or proof! Clif simply did what the rest of us have asked B&K to do with their 'whistleblowers'...

Strange indeed. I had to read the post a few times as I was trying to make sure I wasn't re-reading an old post. It's almost as if he forgot the last message and all of the fuss it generated.

--sjkted

[Kulapops]

Maybe there are two Bill's ?!!

Sheesh.. I'm only joking !

[sjkted]

He obviously didn't read my letter to him Re: Bill Deagle. Per Bill Ryan's post today on Bill Deagle. He is still correlating information from the different sources...

Why anyone thinks he presents disinformation I genuinely don't understand. His information correlates strongly with ours (from totally separate sources).

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by sjkted

He obviously didn't read my letter to him Re: Bill Deagle. Per Bill Ryan's post today on Bill Deagle. He is still correlating information from the different sources...

Why anyone thinks he presents disinformation I genuinely don't understand. His information correlates strongly with ours (from totally separate sources).

Your message to Bill was articulate, to the point and more relevant than any others on this subject as well as many others! In fact, it may be filled with too much intelligence and specificity for him to handle based on the responses he's provided to other (less meaningful IMO) posts. It's really becoming too vacuous and diaphanous for my tastes.

If you haven't heard the Veritas Show with Mel Fabregas www.VeritasShow.com, I encourage you to visit and listen to the show highlights Mel provides. He not only has an excellent interview with Clif, but his interview with Bob Dean is far superior (again, IMO) than all the Dean interviews done by B&K. Mel has excellent interview skills and intellect that even his guests admire...which I think results in more quantifiable and quality information for the listener.

Got a good scratch going on with B&K/PC/PA as a result of the strange and nefarious goings on of late and how they are being/not being handled. I realize they are amatures at what they are doing which comes out quite regularly, but even amatures can do a great job when the key drivers are intent with integrity and the pursuit of facts and truth regardless of personal belief/agenda/system.

Mel's position/question as the focus of his show is, "Do you want to believe, or do you want to know?" I want both, but I must know before I can believe.

Something strange wrapped in change comes this way sooner than later. Separating the wheat from the chaff is more important now than ever. I've seen enough chaff around here and it's time to make some bread!

There's truth and then there's facts...everybody needs to pick one or the other and proceed with alacrity...time is short!

Peace,

YinYangMind

[dolphin]

yingyang, you've put it in a nutshell. very well said. i've been here since pa started, and have "followed" their interviews and info all along, trusting their motives, until it started to get very weird, both b and k and their whistleblowers. i've lost all respect for bill on this one and when you listen to mel's show on veritas, well, there's no comparison who's the pro. mel is just the best out there.

bill just doesn't get it, and after reading his second response, well, amazingly he still doesn't get it... it's about integrity. their ship is sinking and the crew are abandoning ship.

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by madgolem

Bravo! I coundn't have put it any better. I really hope to hear from Bill on this one. I know Bill and Kerry have good intentions because they cut off dan burish and leo zagami upon finding out that they're disinfo agents. But there's still disinfo agent bill deagle and shills like miriam delicado spreading lies on PC.

I was under the impression that Dan Burish dumped Bill and Kerry. Am I mistaken here?

--sjkted

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by shiva777

(Quoting Clif High) I began my own research into Bill Deagle by the simple expedient of Google ... In the investigation that I did perform with Google, the second query that I used was “Dr + Bill + Deagle + fraud”. The results led me directly to the information that I passed on to Bill Ryan that he has misunderstood.

Actually, what happened was that Clif High used information gained by someone who got access to Dr Deagle's personal bank account, which he found via a Google search, rather than by hiring a PI.

That's my understanding of the sequence of events.

[sjkted]

Ok. That would explain Bill Ryan's last response. Some things can get distorted with threads on the internet :-) Apparently, there aren't two of him.

--sjkted

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

Actually, what happened was that Clif High used information gained by someone who got access to Dr Deagle's personal bank account, which he found via a Google search, rather than by hiring a PI.

That's my understanding of the sequence of events.

Seashore, where did your 'understanding' come from? This information while interesting doesn't seem to add to the substance of the issue.

Highly curious considering the following:

Here's Bill's first 'public' response to the original question which prompted Clif's 'Open Letter':

“As best we understand, Clif High set a PI [Private Investigator] on Deagle's bank account without Deagle's knowledge or consent, with an instruction to look for something that could be used against him.

The PI found some income that he could not account for and Clif therefore assumed that he must be a paid agent.

It's an understatement to say that this is very dumb of Clif, who is normally a bright guy. If anyone looked in to my bank account, or yours, or anyone's, they would find things they didn't understand. I don't even understand my own bank statements sometimes."

His latest statement does not include the original information in his reply to Clif's letter on 12/15 about getting an email directly from Clif about the alledged PI/Financial information:

"What I'd called a PI [Private Investigator] was described in the original e-mail (sent to me on 14 April) by Clif as a "researcher/detective". This person was NOT hired by him. My mistake, and I'm happy to correct that."

Questions come to mind on this:

1. Bill states that the information came from an 'original e-mail from Clif on April 14' and now the issue surfaces 8 months later???

2. Bill only mentions this supposed e-mail once but never produces it as evidence of his (bill's) position...why?

3. Bill admits that his original claim of Clif hiring the PI to investigate Deagle's finances was incorrect, yet continues with the probing of Deagle's finances by Clif as an issue of integrity and slander on Clif's part...which is it Bill???

4. Who is this mystery person that dug up financial information on Deagle that was falsely attributed to Clif, is it true and relevant (regardless of consent)?

5. Clif's open letter states very clearly the significant problems he has with Deagle including supporting details as to why Deagle's inside information, experience, knowledge, observations & prognostications are questionable at best. Why doesn't Bill address these as he has had to do with Burish and the rest?

6. If Bill can't make sense out of his own bank account/statement, why should we trust his interpretation of esoteric, scientific, cosmic, conscious and spiritual matters?


Then, Bill's latest reply continues with:

- Clif's 'financial inquiry improprieties'

- maintains his position that Clif did something wrong,

- completly ignores the very detailed and articulate substantive issues Clif raises regarding Deagle's information which DO NOT INCLUDE FINANCES but specifically deal with the information B&K get from Deagle,

- ignores the multitude of posts from members here regarding their own issues/concerns about Deagle including detailed and informative posts/questions from myself and skjted,

- continues with his undaunting support of Deagle as a 'good man with a good heart' with a feel good story,

- then, arrogantly, suggests that Clif should 'focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers without going out of his way to denigrate them publicly,' the last part of which Camelot should be doing more of themselves which possibly could mitigate the strange and curious fueds, exits and excuses/ass coverings that B&K have been doing more of the last 6 months than anything else.

Gotta say, I've had enough of the obfuscation from Bill on this. Coupled with the disasters of Burish, Deagle, Deacon, Jane, et al, and the wealth of much better and professional investigative/whistleblowing/research/interviews that are available, it's time for this mind to move along and not waste precious focus and energy on what once was Camelot but now is sadly 'CameNot.'

You will know them by their words and judge them by their actions...

Peace,

YinYangMind

[UncleJohn]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

Gotta say, I've had enough of the obfuscation from Bill on this. Coupled with the disasters of Burish, Deagle, Deacon, Jane, et al, and the wealth of much better and professional investigative/whistleblowing/research/interviews that are available, it's time for this mind to move along and not waste precious focus and energy on what once was Camelot but now is sadly 'CameNot.'

You will know them by their words and judge them by their actions.

YYMind, take a long breath and breath in love.

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

YYMind, take a long breath and breath in love.

Uncle J,

I teach the original form of Tai Chi known as the Eight Treasures developed by the ancient Taoists over 5000 years ago and breathing is a core component to the style.

Consider my last post an exhale from deep within and a release of Chi.

Do you have anything to add to the thread as a moderator?

Thanks for the advice!

Peace,
YinYangMind

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

Seashore, where did your 'understanding' come from? This information while interesting doesn't seem to add to the substance of the issue.

YinYangMind,

My understanding comes from the items I quoted.

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

YinYangMind,

My understanding comes from the items I quoted.

Seashore,

How does the information you quoted lead to your understanding? That level of detail is not obvious or apparent.

The bigger question is why the supposed financial info on Deagle is constantly referred to when Clif not only does not seem to care about it other than clarifying that he did not do what Bill accused him of, which Bill admits his mistake, rather, Clif has put forth very specific information regarding the content which Deagle espouses regarding the Pole Shift, Chinese Robots, etc.?

The financial issue seems to be being used to avoid the real issue that Clif (and many others on this fora!) raise regarding the content and validity of Deagle's claims and his believability.

Many here have expressed serious doubts about Deagle and the only thing we get from Bill Ryan is that he believes and supports Deagle.

Where's the true objective investigative research?

Why the blind acceptance in the face of so much doubt and facts?

What about the plethora of 'free' information about Deagle (forget the financial stuff!) all over the net?

Why the childish name calling from someone who claims to be a truth seeker and on the path of spiritual growth and enlightenment?

Why the obfuscation and lack of nads to back up the claims?

Why are so many here feeling, seeing and thinking the same, asking for input and clarification and being ignored?

What is behind a now regular pattern of exposed 'whistleblowers', disagreements & fueds between Bill and Kerry and their 'interviewees/whistleblowers'?

How should those who have followed and supported PC/PA over the years react to these now regular missteps, blunders and falsehoods?

Why doesn't Bill or Kerry or both address these festering boils on the body of work they have worked so hard to build?

Immature and petty, yes...professional, no.

'Know what you believe and believe what you know'

Peace,

YinYangMind

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

he did not do what Bill accused him of

In my opinion, in essence, Clif did do what Bill accused him of: searched for and published disparaging inferences about Dr Deagle's private financial records.

[gibonos]

seashore

In my opinion, in essence, Clif did do what Bill accused him of: searched for and published disparaging inferences about Dr Deagle's private financial records.

If it was posted on the internet for everyone to see it's NOT PRIVATE anymore it's public!
Clif did what PC should've done long time ago, check a notorious liar and false prophet.

gibonos

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by gibonos

a notorious liar and false prophet.

This is a personal opinion of yours that you are expessing here and it is unrelated to the question presented.

[gibonos]

This is a personal opinion of yours that you are expessing here and it is unrelated to the question presented.

Yes it's my opinion.
Everything is related to the question it all depends on your perspective.
Would you say that people who stole the emails from climatologists in england are bad guys or not?

gibonos

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by gibonos

Yes it's my opinion.
Everything is related to the question it all depends on your perspective.
Would you say that people who stole the emails from climatologists in england are bad guys or not?

gibonos

Good question!

I'm not going to debate that here but my hat's off to you for your comeback!!

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by gibonos

Yes it's my opinion.
Everything is related to the question it all depends on your perspective.
Would you say that people who stole the emails from climatologists in england are bad guys or not?

gibonos

I have the zipped file containing the emails/data/programs and have reviewed them thoroughly.

The data was gathered from several sources covering more than 10 years and stored in a directory labeled FOIA2009 which stands for "Freedom Of Information Act 2009".

Add the additional possible perspective that those emails were 'leaked' and then ask the same question...good or bad guy(s)?

Peace,

YinYangMind

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

This is a personal opinion of yours that you are expessing here and it is unrelated to the question presented.

Seashore,

How in the hell do you come to the conclusion that gibonos personal opinion is unrelated to the questions presented???

This entire issue is about Deagle's believability and credibility coupled with Ryan's motherhen reaction!

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

Peace,

YinYangMind

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by gibonos

seashore


If it was posted on the internet for everyone to see it's NOT PRIVATE anymore it's public!
Clif did what PC should've done long time ago, check a notorious liar and false prophet.

gibonos

Clear, short & to the point!

Thanks gibonos!

Peace,

YinYangMind

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

In my opinion, in essence, Clif did do what Bill accused him of: searched for and published disparaging inferences about Dr Deagle's private financial records.

Once again, why is this supposed publishing of Deagle's financial issues the standard response to the questioning? I certainly haven't seen any of it posted here or anywhere else for that matter.

What about the real issues of Deagle's questionable statements that Clif has eluminated?

Simultaneously perplexing & frustrating & apparently stuck on the river denial...

Peace,

YinYangMind