Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

Actually, what happened was that Clif High used information gained by someone who got access to Dr Deagle's personal bank account, which he found via a Google search, rather than by hiring a PI.

That's my understanding of the sequence of events.

Seashore, where did your 'understanding' come from? This information while interesting doesn't seem to add to the substance of the issue.

Highly curious considering the following:

Here's Bill's first 'public' response to the original question which prompted Clif's 'Open Letter':

“As best we understand, Clif High set a PI [Private Investigator] on Deagle's bank account without Deagle's knowledge or consent, with an instruction to look for something that could be used against him.

The PI found some income that he could not account for and Clif therefore assumed that he must be a paid agent.

It's an understatement to say that this is very dumb of Clif, who is normally a bright guy. If anyone looked in to my bank account, or yours, or anyone's, they would find things they didn't understand. I don't even understand my own bank statements sometimes."

His latest statement does not include the original information in his reply to Clif's letter on 12/15 about getting an email directly from Clif about the alledged PI/Financial information:

"What I'd called a PI [Private Investigator] was described in the original e-mail (sent to me on 14 April) by Clif as a "researcher/detective". This person was NOT hired by him. My mistake, and I'm happy to correct that."

Questions come to mind on this:

1. Bill states that the information came from an 'original e-mail from Clif on April 14' and now the issue surfaces 8 months later???

2. Bill only mentions this supposed e-mail once but never produces it as evidence of his (bill's) position...why?

3. Bill admits that his original claim of Clif hiring the PI to investigate Deagle's finances was incorrect, yet continues with the probing of Deagle's finances by Clif as an issue of integrity and slander on Clif's part...which is it Bill???

4. Who is this mystery person that dug up financial information on Deagle that was falsely attributed to Clif, is it true and relevant (regardless of consent)?

5. Clif's open letter states very clearly the significant problems he has with Deagle including supporting details as to why Deagle's inside information, experience, knowledge, observations & prognostications are questionable at best. Why doesn't Bill address these as he has had to do with Burish and the rest?

6. If Bill can't make sense out of his own bank account/statement, why should we trust his interpretation of esoteric, scientific, cosmic, conscious and spiritual matters?


Then, Bill's latest reply continues with:

- Clif's 'financial inquiry improprieties'

- maintains his position that Clif did something wrong,

- completly ignores the very detailed and articulate substantive issues Clif raises regarding Deagle's information which DO NOT INCLUDE FINANCES but specifically deal with the information B&K get from Deagle,

- ignores the multitude of posts from members here regarding their own issues/concerns about Deagle including detailed and informative posts/questions from myself and skjted,

- continues with his undaunting support of Deagle as a 'good man with a good heart' with a feel good story,

- then, arrogantly, suggests that Clif should 'focus on his own prognostications and to respect data revealed by other whistleblowers without going out of his way to denigrate them publicly,' the last part of which Camelot should be doing more of themselves which possibly could mitigate the strange and curious fueds, exits and excuses/ass coverings that B&K have been doing more of the last 6 months than anything else.

Gotta say, I've had enough of the obfuscation from Bill on this. Coupled with the disasters of Burish, Deagle, Deacon, Jane, et al, and the wealth of much better and professional investigative/whistleblowing/research/interviews that are available, it's time for this mind to move along and not waste precious focus and energy on what once was Camelot but now is sadly 'CameNot.'

You will know them by their words and judge them by their actions...

Peace,

YinYangMind

[UncleJohn]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

Gotta say, I've had enough of the obfuscation from Bill on this. Coupled with the disasters of Burish, Deagle, Deacon, Jane, et al, and the wealth of much better and professional investigative/whistleblowing/research/interviews that are available, it's time for this mind to move along and not waste precious focus and energy on what once was Camelot but now is sadly 'CameNot.'

You will know them by their words and judge them by their actions.

YYMind, take a long breath and breath in love.

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

YYMind, take a long breath and breath in love.

Uncle J,

I teach the original form of Tai Chi known as the Eight Treasures developed by the ancient Taoists over 5000 years ago and breathing is a core component to the style.

Consider my last post an exhale from deep within and a release of Chi.

Do you have anything to add to the thread as a moderator?

Thanks for the advice!

Peace,
YinYangMind

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

Seashore, where did your 'understanding' come from? This information while interesting doesn't seem to add to the substance of the issue.

YinYangMind,

My understanding comes from the items I quoted.

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

YinYangMind,

My understanding comes from the items I quoted.

Seashore,

How does the information you quoted lead to your understanding? That level of detail is not obvious or apparent.

The bigger question is why the supposed financial info on Deagle is constantly referred to when Clif not only does not seem to care about it other than clarifying that he did not do what Bill accused him of, which Bill admits his mistake, rather, Clif has put forth very specific information regarding the content which Deagle espouses regarding the Pole Shift, Chinese Robots, etc.?

The financial issue seems to be being used to avoid the real issue that Clif (and many others on this fora!) raise regarding the content and validity of Deagle's claims and his believability.

Many here have expressed serious doubts about Deagle and the only thing we get from Bill Ryan is that he believes and supports Deagle.

Where's the true objective investigative research?

Why the blind acceptance in the face of so much doubt and facts?

What about the plethora of 'free' information about Deagle (forget the financial stuff!) all over the net?

Why the childish name calling from someone who claims to be a truth seeker and on the path of spiritual growth and enlightenment?

Why the obfuscation and lack of nads to back up the claims?

Why are so many here feeling, seeing and thinking the same, asking for input and clarification and being ignored?

What is behind a now regular pattern of exposed 'whistleblowers', disagreements & fueds between Bill and Kerry and their 'interviewees/whistleblowers'?

How should those who have followed and supported PC/PA over the years react to these now regular missteps, blunders and falsehoods?

Why doesn't Bill or Kerry or both address these festering boils on the body of work they have worked so hard to build?

Immature and petty, yes...professional, no.

'Know what you believe and believe what you know'

Peace,

YinYangMind

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

he did not do what Bill accused him of

In my opinion, in essence, Clif did do what Bill accused him of: searched for and published disparaging inferences about Dr Deagle's private financial records.

[gibonos]

seashore

In my opinion, in essence, Clif did do what Bill accused him of: searched for and published disparaging inferences about Dr Deagle's private financial records.

If it was posted on the internet for everyone to see it's NOT PRIVATE anymore it's public!
Clif did what PC should've done long time ago, check a notorious liar and false prophet.

gibonos

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by gibonos

a notorious liar and false prophet.

This is a personal opinion of yours that you are expessing here and it is unrelated to the question presented.

[gibonos]

This is a personal opinion of yours that you are expessing here and it is unrelated to the question presented.

Yes it's my opinion.
Everything is related to the question it all depends on your perspective.
Would you say that people who stole the emails from climatologists in england are bad guys or not?

gibonos

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by gibonos

Yes it's my opinion.
Everything is related to the question it all depends on your perspective.
Would you say that people who stole the emails from climatologists in england are bad guys or not?

gibonos

Good question!

I'm not going to debate that here but my hat's off to you for your comeback!!

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by gibonos

Yes it's my opinion.
Everything is related to the question it all depends on your perspective.
Would you say that people who stole the emails from climatologists in england are bad guys or not?

gibonos

I have the zipped file containing the emails/data/programs and have reviewed them thoroughly.

The data was gathered from several sources covering more than 10 years and stored in a directory labeled FOIA2009 which stands for "Freedom Of Information Act 2009".

Add the additional possible perspective that those emails were 'leaked' and then ask the same question...good or bad guy(s)?

Peace,

YinYangMind

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

This is a personal opinion of yours that you are expessing here and it is unrelated to the question presented.

Seashore,

How in the hell do you come to the conclusion that gibonos personal opinion is unrelated to the questions presented???

This entire issue is about Deagle's believability and credibility coupled with Ryan's motherhen reaction!

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

Peace,

YinYangMind

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by gibonos

seashore


If it was posted on the internet for everyone to see it's NOT PRIVATE anymore it's public!
Clif did what PC should've done long time ago, check a notorious liar and false prophet.

gibonos

Clear, short & to the point!

Thanks gibonos!

Peace,

YinYangMind

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

In my opinion, in essence, Clif did do what Bill accused him of: searched for and published disparaging inferences about Dr Deagle's private financial records.

Once again, why is this supposed publishing of Deagle's financial issues the standard response to the questioning? I certainly haven't seen any of it posted here or anywhere else for that matter.

What about the real issues of Deagle's questionable statements that Clif has eluminated?

Simultaneously perplexing & frustrating & apparently stuck on the river denial...

Peace,

YinYangMind

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

publishing of Deagle's financial

This is the core of the dispute that started on the "Bill Ryan's thread" when Bill Ryan answered my query concerning the allegation that was made by an Avalon member on another thread that Clif High believes Dr Bill Deagle is a paid disinfo agent.

[gibonos]

okey guys put down your knifes

gibonos

ps. thanks yinyang for taking my side, but everyone has the right to think differently, that's the whole purpose of perspective, that's how I learn from other people

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by gibonos

everyone has the right to think differently, that's the whole purpose of perspective, that's how I learn from other people

Me too!

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by gibonos

okey guys put down your knifes

gibonos

ps. thanks yinyang for taking my side, but everyone has the right to think differently, that's the whole purpose of perspective, that's how I learn from other people

That gave me a nice little chuckle gibonos! Thanks!

Logic has no sides and that's all I'm interested in. If something stated seems directed & sharp it's usually the result of specificity and facts, no personal attack with any objects intended, just pondering and pursuing logic supported by facts.

Your side was 'logical' ergo, support was by default.

Peace,

YinYangMind

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by gibonos

everyone has the right to think differently, that's the whole purpose of perspective, that's how I learn from other people

I would like to see more posts of members expressing their perspective on the "State of the Planet" thread.

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

This is the core of the dispute that started on the "Bill Ryan's thread" when Bill Ryan answered my query concerning the allegation that was made by an Avalon member on another thread that Clif High believes Dr Bill Deagle is a paid disinfo agent.

So what are your thoughts regarding the multitude of posts that have arisen as a result of the 'core of the dispute' which have not focused on the financial, but rather the substance, and that fact that they have been continuously ignored?

What say you?

Peace,

YinYangMind

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

So what are your thoughts regarding the multitude of posts that have arisen as a result of the 'core of the dispute' which have not focused on the financial, but rather the substance, and that fact that they have been continuously ignored?

What say you?

Peace,

YinYangMind

YinYangMind,

I have not focused on anything else besides what I've posted.

I had to investigate your post quite a bit to find the material I needed in order to piece together a sequence of events that made sense to me. I ended up going to the "Bill Ryan's thread" and hitting Control Find on every page just to find the post originally posted by Petem which starts off your post #192 on this thread.

I will share with you at this point that I am not a Clif High fan. My intuition tells me he is ego-motivated.

I feel that Bill Ryan was in error in his handling of the Jane Burgermeister matter and have stated that on his thread. I still have some unanswered questions posed to him about that issue on his thread, which I hope he will find time to answer. However, my intuition tells me that Bill Ryan's heart is in the right place and I am indebted to Project Camelot for the contribution they are making.

I hate it when Dr Bill Deagle goes into his religious talk, but my intuition tells me that he also has his heart in the right place, and I admire his stamina and devoted concern for humanity.

[Fredkc]

Whatta pile of CR@P. 9 pages high, too.

I thought Cliff High already had a website.

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Fredkc

Whatta pile of CR@P. 9 pages high, too.

I thought Cliff High already had a website.

Well there's an interesting prespective/contribution to the discussion!

Thought...if this issue was addressed clearly and professionally in the first place, this thread probably wouldn't exist, but since neither has been done, ergo it exists.

If you carefully read the main theme of this thread, you'll find that it has two components...1. The pitifully poor handling of this issue by Bill and 2. The credibility of Deagle and support thereof by Bill.

There are many who share the same perspective/concerns here if you care to read them.

Do you have anything to add to those two points?

Clif does have his own site, but this issue moved beyond Clif long ago.

Peace,

YinYangMind

[YinYangMind]

Originally Posted by Seashore

YinYangMind,

I have not focused on anything else besides what I've posted.

I will share with you at this point that I am not a Clif High fan. My intuition tells me he is ego-motivated.

I feel that Bill Ryan was in error in his handling of the Jane Burgermeister matter and have stated that on his thread. I still have some unanswered questions posed to him about that issue on his thread, which I hope he will find time to answer. However, my intuition tells me that Bill Ryan's heart is in the right place and I am indebted to Project Camelot for the contribution they are making.

I hate it when Dr Bill Deagle goes into his religious talk, but my intuition tells me that he also has his heart in the right place, and I admire his stamina and devoted concern for humanity.

Ahh...the fact that 'you are not a Clif High fan' explains alot, thank you for adding that tidbit!

I too get nauseated at Deagle's religious pronouncements which can be at odds with his psuedo science information causing conundrums to fly!

Agree with your thoughts on Bill's handling of JB. What about the handling and issues surrounding all the other ex-whistleblowers/interviewees that have continually popped up over the last year? I agree that Bill seems to have a good heart, but the recent actions have put that into question.

Regardless of your dislike for Clif, have you considered or looked into his research regarding the substance of Deagle's claims? There's some very interesting and objective (IMO) data there that raises serious questions that many other's here have decerned/intuited to be dubious at best.

Peace,

YinYangMind

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

What about the handling and issues surrounding all the other ex-whistleblowers/interviewees that have continually popped up over the last year?

I have not put a lot of thought into this.

In general, I think that the complexity of the issues Project Camelot tackles is enormous, and I don't judge them.

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

Regardless of your dislike for Clif, have you considered or looked into his research regarding the substance of Deagle's claims?

No.

I'm not interested in Clif's research.