Dear Bill: what value do you see in scientology?

[Kahunamahalo]

Scientology=scam

[Chris Parson]

penthouse interview with hubbard's son
http://www.rickross.com/reference/sc.../scien240.html

[Antaletriangle]

When i was at university my girlfriend at that time and myself were 'collered' by them in the street-we were vulnerable and hadn't a clue about their religion.They attracted my girlfriend upstairs to do an astrology reading.I was immediately on guard.they separated us into separate rooms to do a mutiple choice test-i fired through this and the asked me if i was interested in their religion etc I just wanted out;i was kept in a room on my own and i found myself pacing up and down andi was very concerned about my girlfriend and what they were saying to her.I kept asking where she was and they said she'll be with you shortly,after 20 mins or so i went looking for her;it turns out that she was one signature away from signing some contract to work for them-i grabbed her by the hand and we fled down the stairs-i remember saying to her at the time that"These are the moonies"lol-it was the only organisation i could bring to mind at the time.I spoke to some police officers who were outside i think they must have been placed there to stop any potential violence concerning their 'drafting application'!Anyway,i pointed out to them what they were about and i was raging; the police agreed with me but they said these people were working within the realms of the law!?I suppose they were because we gave permission for this astrological reading..it was nothing to do with astrology;initially it was then they moved swiftly from that to moralistic/immoral values and elements of subversion.I found it profoundly upsetting-the methods they used-it felt so hostile and macabre.I am just posting this as it's a full on experience i would not wish on anyone!This is no rumour from me it's first hand-believe what you will but i don't advocate this system of mind control one bit.Thanks for listening.

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by Kahunamahalo

Scientology=scam

Would that be Scientology the church? Scientology the philosophy? Scientology the practice? That is a scam? all three or any two, and which two, or only one, and if so, which one?

I have first hand knowledge that part's of Scientology are not a scam.

[Kahunamahalo]

All of it. It's all crap. Ruined more lives than I can count.

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by Kahunamahalo

All of it. It's all crap. Ruined more lives than I can count.

That bad, eh? Guess it should be hated then.

[Kahunamahalo]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

That bad, eh? Guess it should be hated then.

Nope, just not believed

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by Kahunamahalo

Nope, just not believed

Nothing should be believed without personal discernment.

[DoctorTony]

Hey guys

Just figured I'd chime in on this $cientology topic. I for one am neutral when it comes to beliefs and religions. I am more of an astrology guy (even more so now with the advent of my discovery of the Mayan calendar as described by Ian Lungold).
As for L Ron Hubbard, well, I see nothing wrong in the 8 dynamics, clearing painful traumatic memories that auditing has done for some people, the axioms, attempting to disseminate the material for others, getting people off of drugs, etc. There is actually a lecture by Hubbard on thought, emotion, and effort - sound familiar? It's mentioned in the Secret, Think & Grow Rich and other similar works. Be, Do, Have - also mentioned. Hubbard even talked about a second coming as a mass landing of UFOs. Aren't we dealing with this topic now? L Ron Hubbard had all of this put together in the late 40's, early 50's.
There's a lot more to scientology than tom cruise jumping on couches and what not. Too much to get into here.
I can talk about this because I have been a member of several different religions, scientology being one of them.
Yes, it has been centered around deaths, but name me one religion that hasn't. TOLERANCE is a big key in stopping that! Even Anton LaVey's satanism has something to offer. I have personally found something postitive in EVERY religion from Atheism to Zoroastranism.
They ALL offer something for someone somewhere. They are ALL cults and man-made anyway. Read William Bramley's "The Gods of Eden."
All of this negative concentration needs to go.

If you want to talk negatives:
1) Scientology concentrates a lot of energy towards ANTI-psychiatry. This is why psychiatry still exists. ENERGY should be focused on the antithesis of a problem (if you believe psychiatry is a problem). They should focus on attacking the FDA and raising their standards.
2) Why should anyone have to pay for anything? If they were so concerned about 'clearing' the planet - more courses, books, lectures, etc would be free of charge.
3) The scientology concept of anti-homosexual is not very cohesive to ALL of mankind considering some people are homosexual. The reason they believe that no one should be homosexual is the 2nd dynamic of scientology which refers to mankind's drive towards survival through sex. The 2nd dynamic would be terminated then and there because life cannot be created by two homosexual people. But (I believe) that homosexuality is based on astrological positioning of jupiter and venus (I've read). I don't think anyone knows how to control the stars - yet Let's ask Michael St. Clair!

There is so much more I could say, but I'll leave the floor open for someone else's opinion.

Thank you for reading.
Peace love & golden ages.

[Kahunamahalo]

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by DoctorTony

Hey guys

Just figured I'd chime in on this $cientology topic. I for one am neutral when it comes to beliefs and religions. I am more of an astrology guy (even more so now with the advent of my discovery of the Mayan calendar as described by Ian Lungold).
As for L Ron Hubbard, well, I see nothing wrong in the 8 dynamics, clearing painful traumatic memories that auditing has done for some people, the axioms, attempting to disseminate the material for others, getting people off of drugs, etc. There is actually a lecture by Hubbard on thought, emotion, and effort - sound familiar? It's mentioned in the Secret, Think & Grow Rich and other similar works. Be, Do, Have - also mentioned. Hubbard even talked about a second coming as a mass landing of UFOs. Aren't we dealing with this topic now? L Ron Hubbard had all of this put together in the late 40's, early 50's.
There's a lot more to scientology than tom cruise jumping on couches and what not. Too much to get into here.
I can talk about this because I have been a member of several different religions, scientology being one of them.
Yes, it has been centered around deaths, but name me one religion that hasn't. TOLERANCE is a big key in stopping that! Even Anton LaVey's satanism has something to offer. I have personally found something postitive in EVERY religion from Atheism to Zoroastranism.
They ALL offer something for someone somewhere. They are ALL cults and man-made anyway. Read William Bramley's "The Gods of Eden."
All of this negative concentration needs to go.

If you want to talk negatives:
1) Scientology concentrates a lot of energy towards ANTI-psychiatry. This is why psychiatry still exists. ENERGY should be focused on the antithesis of a problem (if you believe psychiatry is a problem). They should focus on attacking the FDA and raising their standards.
2) Why should anyone have to pay for anything? If they were so concerned about 'clearing' the planet - more courses, books, lectures, etc would be free of charge.
3) The scientology concept of anti-homosexual is not very cohesive to ALL of mankind considering some people are homosexual. The reason they believe that no one should be homosexual is the 2nd dynamic of scientology which refers to mankind's drive towards survival through sex. The 2nd dynamic would be terminated then and there because life cannot be created by two homosexual people. But (I believe) that homosexuality is based on astrological positioning of jupiter and venus (I've read). I don't think anyone knows how to control the stars - yet Let's ask Michael St. Clair!

There is so much more I could say, but I'll leave the floor open for someone else's opinion.

Thank you for reading.
Peace love & golden ages.

I agree, DoctorTony. There's some value in Scientology. It's been often misused, and has a bad reputation. And some parts are destructive by their nature. But some parts can do a lot of good, if used with that intention.

It's become hard for those not familiar with the subject to learn about what's good in Scientology, because of all the noise generated by that hate group Anonymous, and their declared war against the church. There's nothing they wouldn't distort for the worse.

I was in Scientology for many years. It's possible to apply the subject with good intentions, and have the result be betterment.

The official church itself is pretty much a lost cause, IMO.

[DoctorTony]

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

I agree, DoctorTony. There's some value in Scientology. It's been often misused, and has a bad reputation. And some parts are destructive by their nature. But some parts can do a lot of good, if used with that intention.

It's become hard for those not familiar with the subject to learn about what's good in Scientology, because of all the noise generated by that hate group Anonymous, and their declared war against the church. There's nothing they wouldn't distort for the worse.

I was in Scientology for many years. It's possible to apply the subject with good intentions, and have the result be betterment.

The official church itself is pretty much a lost cause, IMO.

YES Myplanet!
Unfortunately, the church did themselves in because when they get these people 'off the street' who are not familiar with anything in the writings, they don't make the effort to get them up to snuff. If they 'cleared' those who were interested in becoming a staff member, they would have sooooo many like-minded interested people that I might even consider going back.
They are so concerned with policy and hatting that they forget that there are people out there that could really truly use it. They dropped the ball big time.

[PodWORLD]

I started reading Mission Earth whilst in my teens. I didn't know anything about L Ron Hubbard. The subject matter was spot on as was Capra's 'Pottersville' in 'It's A Wonderful Life'. The thing about Cults is that they're only successful when they echo with a ring of truth.

[atama]

not criticizing scientologists but i see no value in it at all. it's another church. church = bad.

[Lythocrist]

Look up how Scientology was created...

Hubbard bet one of his co-workers/fellow intellectual, that he could have over a certain number of 'worshipers', in a certain amount of time, for a religion he made up.

Made made = Fallible

Something such as religion won't work for everyone, think how complex your own mind is...Well think about 6.7 billion minds?

Some man made things work (If only temporary.) Because they HAVE to work, the world would fall apart kinda/sorta if they didn't 'government' Because people realize it is often safe and sufficient. But...Something as free minded as religion... You can make laws, you can have police enforce them. But I've yet to come across those who police the minds of everyone on the planet....good luck. We'll always be free in the vastness of eternal mind.

This is more of an Off-Topic issue rather than Alternatinve Science , so I'll move it there

...ad it's nice to see a civilsed debate, well done people!

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, Everyone:

I've only just noticed this thread (believe it or not)...

Happy to respond in bulletpoints. (Otherwise, it'd take a book!)

* Anything you read about the Church of Scientology that criticizes it it likely to be true.

* I've never been in the Church or Scientology, am not connected with it, and do not know any members.

* I'm on the Church of Scientology's Enemies List.

* I'm an active 'Free Zone' scientologist and have got a vast amount of personal benefit and gain from the subject.

* I never knew L. Ron Hubbard. I did know Bill Robertson personally, who founded the 'Free Zone' scientology organization known as 'Ron's Org' in 1984, having left the Church of Scientology after it was taken over.

* There's no connection with Projects Camelot or Avalon. Kerry has no connection with the subject and has her own sources of spiritual and personal growth which I fully respect (as I respect those of everyone).

* Of the members posting on this thread (while all contributions, intelligently expressed, are welcome), I'd recommend the posts of Myplanet2 as being reliable and accurate. He knows what he's talking about, and his views come from his personal experience.

* Personal experience is always a better source of information from reading stuff on the net!

Happy also to respond privately to anyone (although I'm days behind on my e-mails and PMs, for which I apologisze - but I hope you can all understand).

Very best to all, Bill

[Zynox]

One word, then a comment: COINTELPRO


Why does anything 'work' or resonate?

• Someone creates (imaginates) or receives inspiration (open channel).

• The formation of a tool and resource germinates.

• The tool is nurtured and gains momentum, and followers.

• Societal and cultural memes are projected into the energy space.

• Local, and potentially inter-dimensional, Oligarchs infiltrate and gain enough foothold to instill toxins.

• Rinse and repeat the formula for domination, in technology, economy, religion, spirituality, humanity, politics, life, and, death ....

Personal 'wisdom', find the 90-99.9% in all with discernment, then take out the garbage ... a long strange trip ...

Namaste!

[Sarahmay]

The best thing about the Church of Scientology, in my opinion, is that it is NOT Christianity.

The worst thing is that it is still a CHURCH.

Church=Control

[HallieBallie]

Every church has it's dogma.

I don't like dogma's

[371]

My impression of Scientology is that it can be very beneficial to an individual... provided you follow their program and don't make waves. If you go against them you are "fair game", and they can make your life miserable if they so choose. After all, they employ what is basically mind control and programming, but of the positive variety.

I know someone who spent 10 years as a hardcore drug addict, and after countless rehabs and subsequent relapses a friend (who is a Scientologist) sent her to rehab at a Scientologist-run rehab facility (and paid for her treatment, I might add). This girl has been clean since and almost totally has her life back together and swears she owes it all to the 'programming'. She is, btw- not a Scientologist. She says at the rehab program the people weren't pushing the 'religion' on her, but were employing the methods used in Scientology to treat her uncontrollable addictions. The friend who paid (or somehow arranged) for her stay in this facility is the type you would never know is a Scientologist. In fact he won't even talk about it casually, only in a very serious time and setting, which is totally out of character for this guy who is basically the fun-loving, extremely manic, gregarious type.

Based on this, I think that a lot can be gained from Scientology. I just won't get into it because it seems like once you're IN, they own you. And sorry is the person who crosses them.

i have learned many valuable things from investigating many groups, philosophies, religions, etc..... taking the good bits and leaving behind the bitter bits.

There are almost always good bits to take away with you.. as tools for living in this strange world.

"trust but verify'

:-)



i respect other's harmless beliefs and try not to impose any harmful beliefs on others

[371]

Oh and it's also my understanding that there is a BIG difference between being a SCIENTOLOGIST and being a member of the CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY.

It's the 'church' that worries me especially. I think the philosophy is very interesting and possibly worth some consideration.

[THE eXchanger]

xxx

[371]

"Supreme Rulah!!" "Goof the Floof"... Apparently ancient 'spaceplaces' looked just like DC-8s, except without the propellers. Hmmm.


you'll see....

L. Ron Hubbard explains the history of xenu in 8 minutes
http://gawker.com/5037013/the-histor...f-in-8-minutes