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Old 09-15-2008, 09:30 AM   #1
aurora GFX
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Default Re: How to Learn Martial Arts

I think the Israeli martial art of Krav Maga is very effective. I have trained in this art and found though that while it is great for younger people, it can be a little hard on the body, and in time may introduce limitations.

I am currently studying Systema, it is a Russian Martial Art used by some Special Operations. Systema has a nice balance of soft / hard principles and teaches ones body to repond to any scenario and not just react with techniques.

As it is not well known, schools can be hard to come by. Anyone interested in checking it out should go to http://www.russianmartialart.com/ for more info.

Cheers.
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Old 09-16-2008, 03:22 AM   #2
bennett
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Default Re: How to Learn Martial Arts

Heretic (or others) - I keep getting emails from "Captain Chris" Pizzo of Close Combat Company - I guess he promotes a street fighting style (?) taught by video. See links for example: http://closecombattraining.com/cctraining/cctbribe.html , http://www.closecombattraining.com/ . I don't know much about this, having very limited martial arts experience. Do you think this has any value?
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:16 AM   #3
DoctorTony
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Default Re: How to Learn Martial Arts

Has anyone ever heard of or uses Target Focused Training (TFT)?
Please bare with me, I am not a Martial Artist, but I think it is a form of Tai Kwan Do and JuJitzu (spelling on these?).
Uses a lot of the Yang energy.

Thanks for this thread.
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: How to Learn Martial Arts

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Originally Posted by DoctorTony View Post
Has anyone ever heard of or uses Target Focused Training (TFT)?
Please bare with me, I am not a Martial Artist, but I think it is a form of Tai Kwan Do and JuJitzu (spelling on these?).
Uses a lot of the Yang energy.

Thanks for this thread.
TFT seems like another close combat street savvy art as advertised. It relies a lot on Chin na, or a lot of grappling, locks and throws. Chin na is awesome and is in just about every art to some degree. I DO have to tell you that I don’t like going to the ground on the street. It just opens you up too much because you can’t move out of the way if needed. The best block to any strike is simply not being there. If there were 3 guys on me, the last thing I want to do is go to the ground and wrestle with one while the other two are just waiting for a chance to hurt me.

The same goes for kicks, no matter how good I am at them, I would not use them in multi-attacks and probably not on the street at all unless it was a finishing move. They ARE devastating though and it is hard for the novice and even the intermediate practitioner to abandon them. There is a big argument on what does or does not work on the streets, and many people usually blame the art and not the practitioner concerning effectiveness.

Tae Kwon Do is heavily reliant on foot work and even a black belt can get owned on the street because it takes a very long time to become resilient, and learning some one footed stances would really increase your effectiveness. A kick is vastly more powerful than a punch in terms of physics, and I have also seen some very well trained practitioners of Tae Kwon Do who can handle multi-attacks in an impressive way by using feet alone.

I think a lot of good arts get a bad reputation as street arts simply because they take so long to learn, and most of the people who try this stuff on the streets are no better than intermediate performers of that art, so it is no surprise that people label them as bad street arts.

Most people who have mastered an art simply would not get in a street fight, unless they like to fight, and look forward to these situations. I can’t explain why but to tell you that there is a world of things you can do phycologically to play on your attacker’s fear, once you have conquered your own. There are so many other techniques that can be performed that are far removed from physical harm that will let the enemy know that they better not pursue an altercation with you, but this doesn’t always work of course.
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Old 09-17-2008, 04:01 AM   #5
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Default Re: How to Learn Martial Arts

Thanks for the posts guys and keep them coming, I could talk about this stuff for days and days without stopping. I will probably make some other posts on certain aspects of the arts I find interesting that can be communicated over the net and absorbed for use.

I can tell you with certainty that just about every move found in these arts like Krav Maga, Systema, TFT and countless more “streamlined” arts can be traced back and found in so many other older arts. They are not original, they are not new. They are just explained in a way that can be applied to today’s needs. This in no way means they are copycat arts though, because it is the system that defines the art and not the moves.

My original post contains all the ingredients found in all the arts. And like a chef, the artist can observe and taste a culinary creation, define what is in it, and how it was made by what he already knows, and has been exposed to, and then he can replicate it.

Like a good culinary delight, the first time a chef makes it, it is awkward, and may not come out as expected, but with perseverance and dedication, a good chef and recreate a recipe and make it over and over once he has figured it out. But you DO have to know the basics of cooking first before you can do this.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:47 PM   #6
DoctorTony
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Thank you Heretic! Much appreciated!
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Old 12-30-2009, 10:30 PM   #7
ShinShinKid
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Default Re: How to Learn Martial Arts

Hello, noob here, just wanted to put in my two cents:

I agree with what Heretic is saying. There is no martial art, only artists -- expressing what they have been taught. There is no dispute that with our society's general trend towards peace, many teachers have lost the ability to teach combat effectiveness. All that being said: Nothing beats a well-qualifed and certified instructor. Please look carefully for instruction before you sign up anywhere. Look around at different places, arts, etc.

I have a bit of a different categorization than Heretic: A good martial arts teacher ought to be able to teach you-

1) Conditioning: Physical strength, balance, and stamina should all improve under proper teaching. Mental conditioning should also improve; the ability to recognize aggression, make choices under pressure, and endure adversity should also be heightened under proper instruction.

2) Ettiquette: A fine honing of ethical standards should take place under proper tutelage. This first takes the form of standard dojo dos n' don'ts. Later, deep discussions regarding what is right and wrong and how to handle oneself while representing said art. It's highest level is a heightened ability to get along well with others, even total boors.

3) Technique: A syllabus should be given to students, to let them know what's ahead. Differences in geography, history, and environment account for slight differences to every teacher's art. A good teacher will use learned techniques to increase a students ability to defend themselves. A good teacher will keep in mind your physiology to adapt technique, if needed, for you. A good teacher will not be secretive, political, or otherwise show favor to any student over another.

Look around for what's right for you. Get names of instructors, and google them...make sure they are legit.

Anyways...
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Old 09-17-2008, 03:11 AM   #8
Heretic
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Default Re: How to Learn Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bennett View Post
Heretic (or others) - I keep getting emails from "Captain Chris" Pizzo of Close Combat Company - I guess he promotes a street fighting style (?) taught by video. See links for example: http://closecombattraining.com/cctraining/cctbribe.html , http://www.closecombattraining.com/ . I don't know much about this, having very limited martial arts experience. Do you think this has any value?
I have only just looked at this guys site so bear with me if I misinterpret his art through my lack of in-depth study on it. This guy is promoting simple pugilistic techniques. He avoids the what if scenario by observing concept alone. The concept is an easy one, or at least a basic concept to the intermediate artist. I think this is how he can say that just one hour of it can change the way you consider an attack.

This concept is to use violence and not just defense, which in my eyes is what every self defense class does anyway. Pain is the great equalizer, not size, weight, or even knowledge. Anyone can do the basics if they just devote a little time to learn the concepts, and apply them with at least SOME technique.

There are tons of concept based arts, but I just call them philosophies under which any art can be used in conjunction with. Jeet Kune Do is a philosophy and a strong one, but by itself it is worthless. The better and more diverse your system is, the more powerful your Jeet Kune Do will be. Bruce Lee built it on top of Wing Chun Kung Fu and it would “look” different under a Shotokan Tiger system.

Pugilistic systems are based on accupoints even though some arts don’t observe them enough. If you like the nervous system, accupoints, and how to use it in the arts, I would suggest Dim Mak as a good study because it is a system based on accupoint targeting holistically. The same points can be used for healing and damaging a person.

This guy is simply teaching a very basic ridge hand striking method, which is GREAT for novices, but to me lacks a lot of discussion about stance so I hope he talks about this later on in his courses. He is selling quick and easy, and that’s probably all you will get out of it, and that’s all you may want out of it so it’s all good. Just don’t expect a well rounded experience out of this art. He also hawks his wares like a snake oil salesmen which just turns me off to start with, but that is a subjective observation and not a technical one.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:20 AM   #9
Heretic
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Default Re: How to Learn Martial Arts

Quote:
Originally Posted by aurora GFX View Post
I think the Israeli martial art of Krav Maga is very effective. I have trained in this art and found though that while it is great for younger people, it can be a little hard on the body, and in time may introduce limitations.

I am currently studying Systema, it is a Russian Martial Art used by some Special Operations. Systema has a nice balance of soft / hard principles and teaches ones body to repond to any scenario and not just react with techniques.

As it is not well known, schools can be hard to come by. Anyone interested in checking it out should go to http://www.russianmartialart.com/ for more info.

Cheers.
I have to agree that Krav Maga, as well as ANY “hard” art will in time reveal limitations. To me it is because, given enough time, unless the body is constantly being trained or maintained limitations will occur naturally. Whenever you have an art that is based on direct forces and blows that are based on external strength alone, limitations will be observed, but this is also true for just about any art, or at least portions of that art.

Not all Krav Maga is based on this though so there is still some worth in it to the elderly. Hard arts are naturally hard on the body, and conditioning is necessary. Just about every art on the planet is a mixture of soft and hard tech, so there will always be something there for those who cant produce alot of linear force for whatever reason.

I looked at Systema a few years back and I like it as well. I am especially fond of the Systema breathing methods as they are quick and easy to learn compared to the complexity found in Qigong, which is by far better yet requires more dedication.

IMHO all the arts including Krav Maga and Systema as well as the other arts taught to the military across the globe are very similar, because they all are answering the same problems. They all seem to be based on closing the distance and putting someone down as fast as possible, with some excusive bonuses found in each, especially the silent methods.

They all have different names, but are so similar it is easier to point out the differences than it is the plethora of similarities, and rightly so as they serve the same need and usually under the same circumstances.
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