CLIFF HIGH taking a skeptical look at whistleblowers and questions camelot AGAIN!

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

I have always viewed Project Camelot as largely a faux-reality show and I have my reasons for doing so. That is to say it is a collection of disinformation agents, hoaxers, confidence men, and delusional individuals, along with the rare genuine article in here and there I think, pretty much by chance.

My God man, then why are you even here on this forum?

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Majorion

My God man, then why are you even here on this forum?

"...the rare genuine article ... here and there ..."

[Kulapops]

I really like George Ure, and by inference Cliff High. I've heard him interviewed a few times and liked what I heard. The idea that we can predict the future, if in an albeit flaky way is incredibly exciting.

But when I step outside for a moment and consider that thought:

Do we really believe there is a way to predict the future?

I mean, really?

Really, really, really, really? For sure? 100%? You believe that?

Not totally surprising if then, the first thing you accurately predict with your machine would be the end of the human race - because what would be the point of having one ? Doesn't it rather eliminate the whole free will argument?


I read Cliff's site the other night, and I almost got depressed. He's building an unsinkable boat. The man with the time machine... is building an unsinkable boat, and waves 1km high will sweep the earth.

If I really believe that, I need to build an unsinkable boat too. I haven't started one yet, and I worried that I hadn't What if he IS RIGHT?? I thought. What about my living in the moment, and loving everyone, and joining the universal consciousnees and overcoming duality? These are my contingency plans. So what about my B****y unsinkable boat??

I realised then, that it's true - a man can't serve two masters and I don't think it's possible for me to plan for two outcomes... spiritual advancement whilst planning for a global killer. Preparing for a 'Global killer' means buying into fear. That's what I've learned after 18months at Avalon. I guess we just have to choose which eventuality we want to prepare for.

Who can say with 100% certainty that either spiritual ascension or giant wave sloshing will happen by 2012? For all we know, nothing will have happened.

Life has never proved me right so far, why should it start now?

Summer of Hell anyone?

K

[eleni]

I sent Clif's musings to Dr. Anderson and asked him what he would say in response - have not heard back from him yet but here's a chart from his site:

http://www.andersoninstitute.com/tim...chnologies.htm

Interesting site:
http://www.time-travelers.org/

[aroundthetable]

response to kulas post, not sure where the quote box went

I read Cliff's site the other night, and I almost got depressed. He's building an unsinkable boat. The man with the time machine... is building an unsinkable boat, and waves 1km high will sweep the earth.

If I really believe that, I need to build an unsinkable boat too. I haven't started one yet, and I worried that I hadn't What if he IS RIGHT?? I thought. What about my living in the moment, and loving everyone, and joining the universal consciousnees and overcoming duality? These are my contingency plans. So what about my B****y unsinkable boat??

I realised then, that it's true - a man can't serve two masters and I don't think it's possible for me to plan for two outcomes... spiritual advancement whilst planning for a global killer. Preparing for a 'Global killer' means buying into fear. That's what I've learned after 18months at Avalon. I guess we just have to choose which eventuality we want to prepare for.

Who can say with 100% certainty that either spiritual ascension or giant wave sloshing will happen by 2012? For all we know, nothing will have happened.

Life has never proved me right so far, why should it start now?

Summer of Hell anyone?

K[/QUOTE]

Hey Kula i got an old canoe you can patch up, very cheap

enjoying your posts

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

I really like George Ure, and by inference Cliff High. I've heard him interviewed a few times and liked what I heard. The idea that we can predict the future, if in an albeit flaky way is incredibly exciting.

But when I step outside for a moment and consider that thought:

Do we really believe there is a way to predict the future?

I mean, really?

Really, really, really, really? For sure? 100%? You believe that?

Not totally surprising if then, the first thing you accurately predict with your machine would be the end of the human race - because what would be the point of having one ? Doesn't it rather eliminate the whole free will argument?


I read Cliff's site the other night, and I almost got depressed. He's building an unsinkable boat. The man with the time machine... is building an unsinkable boat, and waves 1km high will sweep the earth.

If I really believe that, I need to build an unsinkable boat too. I haven't started one yet, and I worried that I hadn't What if he IS RIGHT?? I thought. What about my living in the moment, and loving everyone, and joining the universal consciousnees and overcoming duality? These are my contingency plans. So what about my B****y unsinkable boat??

I realised then, that it's true - a man can't serve two masters and I don't think it's possible for me to plan for two outcomes... spiritual advancement whilst planning for a global killer. Preparing for a 'Global killer' means buying into fear. That's what I've learned after 18months at Avalon. I guess we just have to choose which eventuality we want to prepare for.

Who can say with 100% certainty that either spiritual ascension or giant wave sloshing will happen by 2012? For all we know, nothing will have happened.

Life has never proved me right so far, why should it start now?

Summer of Hell anyone?

K

Hey, what's wrong with a little preparation? I'm ready to go exodus style to my high-altitude cave in Arizona with my items should the need (pole shift) arise.

I'm also doing quite well in spiritual prep work.

IMO, it's impossible for anyone to know what really will happen. It's very prudent to have preparations for any scenario. Then again, if the full pole shift 2012-movie style happens, I'm not sure I would want to stay incarnated on this planet. It's one thing to make it alive through. It's another to think of how horrific life could be afterwards...

--sjkted

[yiolas]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

I
I

I read Cliff's site the other night, and I almost got depressed. He's building an unsinkable boat. The man with the time machine... is building an unsinkable boat, and waves 1km high will sweep the earth.

If I really believe that, I need to build an unsinkable boat too. I haven't started one yet, and I worried that I hadn't What if he IS RIGHT?? I thought. What about my living in the moment, and loving everyone, and joining the universal consciousnees and overcoming duality? These are my contingency plans. So what about my B****y unsinkable boat??

I realised then, that it's true - a man can't serve two masters and I don't think it's possible for me to plan for two outcomes... spiritual advancement whilst planning for a global killer. Preparing for a 'Global killer' means buying into fear. That's what I've learned after 18months at Avalon. I guess we just have to choose which eventuality we want to prepare for.


K

Yes Kulapops ! I've arrived at the same conclusion during my sojourn here at PA. I first arrived out of fear, and then stayed because I saw hope and the possibility of evolution and ascension within the words of the wonderful people here. Even the controversy between Cliff and B&K has been a learning experience for me. It has helped me to rely on myself even more in my process of searching for the truth.

[Kulapops]

I am surprised that Cliff has got into a slanging match. As someone here so eloquently posted Cliff's own quote about having to provide 'extraordinary proof' - how does that apply to his own technology?

I'm all for people having great ideas but when they start to take themselves too seriously (and I include myself in this) they lose a certain kind of flexibility and become stiff and brittle. This second broadside at Camelot has a slightly more bitter taste to it than the first and seems largely unsolicited.

The taller the willow grows, the more it bends.

If the world really were going to end in three years (and I don't think it will) - I'd rather enjoy this life to the full as a loving and hopeful being (mowing lawns if you will) than spend it sanding down a boat, only to find I die when the time comes anyway. (Can you imagine? "Oh Sh*t! It's sprung a leak !!!")

Peace n love n whatever it is that makes you happy

K

[Slerbo]

That's a good point raised by of few people.. Re: 'how can Clif's predictive linguistics methods be viable, when he has now decided there is no tangible 'future', as this then implies something akin to an existing 'timeline'?

He states he goes with the 'eternal now' concpt as far as the material world, inc. our body and minds (presumably not the memory) are concerned.

In his current understanding, he seems to now believe consciousness to be outside the time/body/aging experience entirely, so it might follow that a system of prediction based on humans possessing some psychic ability would actually be tapping into some kind of mass consciousness (which is not 'real body time' dependent), existing outside of the individual's material time space. I don;t know if i got that right... but something like that! So, it could still fit well.

Well I don't mind what Clif writes, he's a cool guy. I didn't mind the Summer of Mild Discontent series and sequel. I buy his reports with pleasure.

Does Clif High really need to strain and bust a vein, just to Mad Max it on the future Planet Hell? I'd put that wrestling mat away in the bedroom if I were him, and have a nice well earned sleep on it for a bit. I don't believe the frothing dancing Dr. Beagle and his ilk for a second, but I like those tall stories at times!

Bickering here and there... when, how will it end, how many will perish oh great ones? Oh the pain of knowing! etc... Many 'talkers' could be sort of right, you know, and sort of totally wrong maybe. But, we really don't need to subscribe to anyone else's views about anything.

It is good to listen to everyone, and accept there are indeed slippery deceivers out there getting air time too - so maybe Clif could simply drink a bit less coffee (the agro could be just excess caffiene in a hyper-smart middle aged man). Maybe also breathe in some other more fragrant fumes, not just marine-ply sealer, and live right up to that cool last name.

If everyone could just enjoy their fake time now, for god's sake.

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Majorion

My God man, then why are you even here on this forum?

I second this view. B&K get quite a bit of garbage information thrown their way. Many of the whistleblowers B&K interview are just relaying information that they have been given. They are genuine and real and they are not lying, but most of them aren't really qualified to substantiate whether their information is real either. That's why we need people like Cliff and that's why we need to research these people's backgrounds and the topic matter as much as we can.

I'm here because the people are here real and yet awakened to what is happening in the world. Most of the whistleblowers live in a world of government protocols and systems. They aren't real. We are.

--sjkted

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by sjkted

That's why we need people like Cliff and that's why we need to research these people's backgrounds and the topic matter as much as we can.

I've listened to Cliff High before, but personally, I don't need anyone to tell me whose qualified and whose lying, and whose a fraud, etc. These are distinctions best left to people's own intuitions and research, because ultimately that's the way things have always been and people will follow whatever they want anyway.

Suggesting a 'need' for some third party analysis when people can do their own analysis and come to their own conclusions, is absurd.

Peace

[Kulapops]

If anyone needs to know what's real, here's a tip.

Just turn off this computer and sit still for three minutes.

There you go, there you are. It's you. Weclome. Is that real enough for you?

Real is happening now. It's only happening now. It doesn't come tomorrow.

If you are preparing right now for a 1000m wall of water heading for your house. Then that is your reality.

There's nothing wrong with that reality. But I don't feel like it's me. I'm not good with 1000m of water. Doesn't seem that I was born to deal with that amount of free universal hand-out.

So I'm going to try and stick to what I know. I'm just watching Greg Braden's 7 parter on youtube... and I have to say I feel a lot better watching that than reading up on boats. Maybe I'm deluded, Cliff talks about the one's who deal with fear , rather than threats.

But here's the kicker... WE ALL DIE.

Sometime.

What are you doing to prepare for that inevitable event? Got enough paper and glue? Bought enough dried food for that one?

What is real is what is real to you. And we are all one. There is no right or objective wrong, only your perfect expression of the collective atoms that is you. How could you fo anything, but what you were born for?

Love yas

K

[aroundthetable]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

If anyone needs to know what's real, here's a tip.

Just turn off this computer and sit still for three minutes.
K

could only manage 30 secs here

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

If anyone needs to know what's real, here's a tip.

If you are preparing right now for a 1000m wall of water heading for your house. Then that is your reality.

There's nothing wrong with that reality. But I don't feel like it's me. I'm not good with 1000m of water. Doesn't seem that I was born to deal with that amount of free universal hand-out.

You must not live right on the beach close enough to see the waves coming and going every day. I've felt for the last few years like I'm about to be a planned refugee somewhere. I'm not sure exactly where, but I really don't see beach living being all that viable for that much longer.

What's interesting is that if you look at all of the posts from intuitives in California on Avalon, many people are repeating the same message.

I'm not 100% sold that it's an inevitability, but it never hurts to be ready.

--sjkted

[UncleJohn]

Originally Posted by sjkted

What's interesting is that if you look at all of the posts from intuitives in California on Avalon, many people are repeating the same message.

Well, I'm an intuitive living in California. What I've surmised over the many years is that people that don't live in California are jealous. Their states don't have the Hollywood, the Googles, the Intels, etc, etc. So they dream up stupid things like California falling into the ocean.

So the message from California somewhat agrees with the message from the above poster. Don't move to California. We already have enough people here.

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

Well, I'm an intuitive living in California. What I've surmised over the many years is that people that don't live in California are jealous. Their states don't have the Hollywood, the Googles, the Intels, etc, etc. So they dream up stupid things like California falling into the ocean.

I agree about outsiders being jealous. I've traveled to other states and I understand.

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

So the message from California somewhat agrees with the message from the above poster. Don't move to California. We already have enough people here.

I wouldn't go that far to tell people not to move here, but we are losing population for the first time ever. There's a good reason with the state being bankrupt, the mortgage crisis, the home prices still being way overvalued, and the general business environment. This is a hard place to make it.

I'm not so sure about the earth changes being a hoax by jealous outsiders. I've seen in dreams what appears to be the area where I am living entirely engulfed in water and I have been watching for signs that this may happen. I'm not sure it's a pole shift or a massive earthquake, but either way if you look at details for the liquefaction zone and the people who are living there, we are not very well set up to handle much of anything higher than a brief 6.0 earthquake.

--sjkted

[Kulapops]

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

Well, I'm an intuitive living in California. What I've surmised over the many years is that people that don't live in California are jealous. Their states don't have the Hollywood, the Googles, the Intels, etc, etc. So they dream up stupid things like California falling into the ocean.

So the message from California somewhat agrees with the message from the above poster. Don't move to California. We already have enough people here.

That's an interesting notion. See people, are people. that much we know about them, and they are liable to do peoply kind of things. Getting jealous is an artform we have developed much better than clairvoyancy so far. In fact, I'm surprised we can't take qualifications in it!

I agree with you skjted, there is no reason not to be prepared, and each must follow their own intuitions. Problem for me though is that I can't hold both kinds of preparations in my head any more. I have to choose, but that's just me, I'm not preaching here (cuh!.. or I'd have to set up my own website ). I bought tins. I even have a 10kg sack of rice I bought in Sep 08... That just gives me a warm feeling every night just knowing it's there. (no, it doesn't actually... no more so than a mercedes 120 Sk class would sitting on my drive.)

That cupboard has felt dead and stuck ever since I filled it with food. Most of it has probably gone off by now too. every time I look at that cupboard it reminds me of a disasterous future. One of which I have no 'guarantee' is going to arrive.

However, each time I say, 'I love you' to someone on this forum, it does fill me with warmth. Each time I say... that's great... I love what you did there...I feel good. That is real, and that is now.. and ultimately that is where my fate lies... even if that fate is only three years long

So bless us, everyone. We have the freedom, luck and time to discuss the number of angels on the head of the pin. One of us might get close to the answer.

Do I believe that Cliff High alone has stumbled onto a rare secret of the universe. Perhaps... but maybe it can just reinvent itself tomorrow too.

Love does seem to be rather a constant, whichever way we look at things.

K

P.S. I can see the sea from my bedroom window... and it looks beautiful if I see the sun rise over it.

[aroundthetable]

Originally Posted by Majorion

I've listened to Cliff High before, but personally, I don't need anyone to tell me whose qualified and whose lying, and whose a fraud, etc. These are distinctions best left to people's own intuitions and research, because ultimately that's the way things have always been and people will follow whatever they want anyway.

Suggesting a 'need' for some third party analysis when people can do their own analysis and come to their own conclusions, is absurd.

Peace

roger that

[Kulapops]

I'm sure there was a time when telling the future through badger's spleens was cutting edge. I'm sure they had their reasons why Norwegian Badger was simply the best and most accurate kind of badger around for the job.

Still , when you're the king who paid 15 Groats for the report and you're standing there with an arrow in your eye, you look kinda silly.

One thing you learn from history, is that no one ever learns from history.

So why should time machines, or whistleblowers be any different, than they have been through all time.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, of course. I like Cliff and respect him. I also like Bill and Kerry, without them, there'd be no discussion (not here, anyway). I like the idea that time machine web-botting can work. But my willingness to believe in things is apt to get me into trouble. We have to look for concrete 'subjective' evidence that the universe works as we think it does.

Did Cliff have a prediction in for the 12th Jan in Haiti ?

Are Bill and Kerry writing to him and asking him why not?

Some one said, you point the finger... and three point straight back at you.

I'm trying to wave my hands around these days in opendish kinda gestures.

K

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Majorion

I've listened to Cliff High before, but personally, I don't need anyone to tell me whose qualified and whose lying, and whose a fraud, etc. These are distinctions best left to people's own intuitions and research, because ultimately that's the way things have always been and people will follow whatever they want anyway.

Suggesting a 'need' for some third party analysis when people can do their own analysis and come to their own conclusions, is absurd.

Peace

As you know, much of the issues we are looking at are very complex. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not an expert in physics, chemistry, astronomy, ancient languages, religion, etc.

In many cases such as the Zacharia Stichin discussion, one needs to be a subject expert in order to weigh in a qualified decision.

The other main issue is time. I have a full time job and I would imagine other people on here do something other than Avalon full time. I do my best to investigate each of these topics, but I can't possibly cover all angles due to time constraints.

In other words, there's nothing wrong with the Cliff Notes (pun intended). :-)

Yes, we can all do our own analysis, but it will obviously be heavily biased based on our own strengths, knowledge, and weaknesses. That is, unless YOU really do know everything.

--sjkted

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by sjkted

As you know, much of the issues we are looking at are very complex. I'm not sure about you, but I'm not an expert in physics, chemistry, astronomy, ancient languages, religion, etc.

Nor do I claim to be an expert on these things either.
However I doubt that kind of complex knowledge is required in order for one to discern a genuine individual from a possible fraud. Because I was under the impression that this is the issue expressed in this thread, correct? About some or 'all' of the PC whistleblowers? - this has nothing to do with religion, languages, astronomy, etc. And Zecharia Sitchen is a moot point... if you consider yourself inadequately capable of discerning Sitchen's work using your own common sense, then that's your problem, not everyone else's.

When you say: "Yes, we can all do our own analysis, but it will obviously be heavily biased"

I ask you, and this wouldn't be the case with Cliff High as well?

So you're basically saying that we should depend on the views of Cliff High for discerning genuine honest individuals from outright liars? His opinion isn't biased, only ours?

If you don't have the time to do your own investigation, nor have the inclination, and you really find the matter so difficult, then you probably do need someone to force their opinion on you. But this isn't the case with me, and I'm sure not the case with most other people as well.

Peace

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Nor do I claim to be an expert on these things either.
However I doubt that kind of complex knowledge is required in order for one to discern a genuine individual from a possible fraud. Because I was under the impression that this is the issue expressed in this thread, correct? About some or 'all' of the PC whistleblowers? - this has nothing to do with religion, languages, astronomy, etc. And Zecharia Sitchen is a moot point... if you consider yourself inadequately capable of discerning Sitchen's work using your own common sense, then that's your problem, not everyone else's.

When you say: "Yes, we can all do our own analysis, but it will obviously be heavily biased"

I ask you, and this wouldn't be the case with Cliff High as well?

So you're basically saying that we should depend on the views of Cliff High for discerning genuine honest individuals from outright liars? His opinion isn't biased, only ours?

Of course not. I say be your own guru. Discern for yourself. Having other people's research to view is very helpful, but it's no substitute for fact checking and figuring it out yourself.

Of course, Cliff's opinion is biased. I mentioned earlier that he is a little imbalanced (too much intellectual and not too much spiritual).

The point I've been making here and trying to bring out is that B&K ought to be focused on a balanced message. I'm not saying don't interview Bill Deagle. I'm suggesting they act like responsible journalists ought to be and interview a number of different sources with different information and diverse areas of expertise. Facts should be checked and scrutinized.

With B&K, no facts are checked and Bill defends the whistleblower's views based on loyalty. They act as though they are building upon this "knowledge" with subsequent interviews, when in reality they are just building a house of cards with some really good, entertaining, wild stories that in many cases happen to be untrue and misleading.

If they were really looking for the truth, when they had an honest challenge from someone like Cliff on a whistleblower (Deagle's) testimony, they would be at the very least open to researching further, as opposed to just accepting Deagle's word on blind faith.

--sjkted

[UncleJohn]

Originally Posted by sjkted

If they were really looking for the truth, when they had an honest challenge from someone like Cliff on a whistleblower (Deagle's) testimony, they would be at the very least open to researching further, as opposed to just accepting Deagle's word on blind faith.

Are we living in the same Project Camelot world? Nowhere did Kerry and Bill state that they were accepting any testimony on blind faith.

If you don't think that Kerry and Bill should be doing what they are doing, then why are you here?

Cliff High? Half Past Human? Think about these names. What are the odds?

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by UncleJohn

Are we living in the same Project Camelot world? Nowhere did Kerry and Bill state that they were accepting any testimony on blind faith.

If you don't think that Kerry and Bill should be doing what they are doing, then why are you here?

Cliff High? Half Past Human? Think about these names. What are the odds?

I thought this was all old news. See the whole thread at http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...gh+accusations and my letter to Bill Ryan on his thread.

I don't watch B&K interviews any more. I just can't bring myself to watch. I tried a few times, but.... I can't.

I mentioned above why I am here. I am here because there are real people and that is something that lacking much in the world of the profane.

I like B&K, but I think they are being highly misled and are failing to question much of this information for themselves. It's probably easiest to just see the thread above to understand my position.

--sjkted

[Kulapops]

Originally Posted by sjkted

The point I've been making here and trying to bring out is that B&K ought to be focused on a balanced message.
--sjkted

I think they have a balanced message purely by running the forum.

Plenty of people discuss their affairs and videos pro and con on here.

When I first came to camelot, I watched most of the vids, lapped them up. I think it was only when I got to Dan B, that my own internal radar went 'hmmm' . But I liked B & K, they seem raw, they seem earnest and , like me, not perfect.

But yes, the rabbit hole leads to a warren, and for me, it's not long before one doubt throws up ten more. It's impossible to figure out at our level (i think) what is going on at their level. So that's when I start zooming back out again. There is no objective reality to discover. Certainly not by perusing websites. How can any of us really know any of these people as well as we know ourselves? Except to the extent of knowing that if i'm not perfect...there's a good chance they can be misled about stuff too.

I still don't get Grangdons from the planet Arrghh. I'm surely showing my ignorance to the zillion people who've had ET contact. But until I have one in for coffee, I'll remain skeptical that they are channeling important info about the fate of the galaxy. I respect that other's may be equally skeptical at the idea we are all one, and the way forward is via a quantum universe, in which the outcome is decided at a personal level of consciousness.

Who am I trying to convince ?? Me or this thread?

I agree with you sktjed... we have to be our own guru. But I am glad for B&K, and Cliff and George and even Dan B because without them, I could not discuss these matters.

K