We are not one!

[Phtha]

I dunno, I personally don't buy into the whole "some people can't live without meat" argument.
What does eating flesh have that you can't get out of some form of fruit, veggie, or nut? Going veggie only takes careful consideration, and you have to make sure you balance your meals out properly, stay away from anything soy for one thing. GMO Soy is sort of the food that is pushed on vegetarians, so no wonder they would get sick.

I agree with the op as well, it is sort of an oxymoron to claim one is 'spiritually enlightened' if they still make other beings suffer greatly to sustain themselves.

That being said I also sympathize with meat eaters. I know how ingrained it has become in our consciousness, and it does taste damn good, I miss some of the meals.

Giving up one pleasure will always be replaced with another pleasure in some form or another.

[krystal]

Originally Posted by Phtha

I dunno, I personally don't buy into the whole "some people can't live without meat" argument. I totally agree, it's called justification to act and behave in a way which serves their own purposes.
What does eating flesh have that you can't get out of some form of fruit, veggie, or nut? Going veggie only takes careful consideration, and you have to make sure you balance your meals out properly, stay away from anything soy for one thing. GMO Soy is sort of the food that is pushed on vegetarians, so no wonder they would get sick.

I agree with the op as well, it is sort of an oxymoron to claim one is 'spiritually enlightened' if they still make other beings suffer greatly to sustain themselves. I didn't want to put it this way but totally in agreement here too and thank you, my thoughts too.
Buddhism

I forbid all meat eating, regardless of whether the animal dies naturally or is killed. I have never allowed my disciples to eat meat, and I will not allow in the present or future.

~ Shakyamuni Buddha, Lankavatara Sutra


That being said I also sympathize with meat eaters. I know how ingrained it has become in our consciousness, and it does taste damn good, I miss some of the meals. Me too but the smell of the bacteria and the thought of turning my stomach into a graveyard is too much for me not to mention those beautiful creatures being slaughtered - not thanks, prefer my veggies any time.

Giving up one pleasure will always be replaced with another pleasure in some form or another.

Yes, we are simply showered with WONDERFUL BLESSINGS AND PROTECTION! if only the ones who are still eating flesh new this.....

[Phtha]

Here are some more quotes from the past about this subject.


Thou shalt not kill any living thing, 'for life is given to all by God, and that which God has given, let not man taketh it away.'
-Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve


“Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of something to eat.”
-Romans 14:20


“And the flesh of slain beasts in his body will become his tomb. For I tell you truly, he who kills, kills himself, and whoso eats the flesh of slain beasts, eats the body of death.
-Jesus, The Gospels of Peace


“Mam Sa Khadatit Mamsah”... “I am killing this animal; I am eating him. And in my next lifetime he'll kill me and eat me”
-Vedic Verse


“I say unto all who desire to be my disciples, keep your hands from bloodshed and let no flesh meat enter your mouths, for God is just and bountiful, who ordaineth that man shall live by the fruits and seeds of the earth alone.”
-Jesus, Gospel of the Holy Twelve; Lection 38


Woe unto the crafty who hurt the creatures of God, Woe unto the hunters for they shall become the hunterd.”
-Jesus, Gospel of the Nazarenes


“Love thy God with all thy heart, and love they neighbour as thyself. Blessed are they who keep this law, for God is manifest in all creatures, All creatures live in God, and God is hid in them.”
-Jesus, Lection 75, Gospel of the Holy Twelve


“Cow killers and cow eaters are condemned to rot in hell for as many thousands of years as there are for each hair on the body of every cow they eat from.”
Sri Caitanya Caritamrita,
Chapter 17 verse 166


“He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man.”
-Isaiah 66:3


“With sober living, well-being increases in the household, animals are in safety, there is no shedding of blood, nor putting animals to death. The knife of the cook is needless; for the table is spread only with the fruits that Nature gives, and with them they are content.”
-St.Basil (D.379)

[Christo888]

Interesting discussion!!!

Also to note is the Blood Type... type O's are specifically meat eaters, where as A, B, and AB may find it very easy to be vegetarians. Type O operates at a slightly higher Acid base in the body, plus the type of protein that comes from meat is far more potent which has already been covered here. Also, there are many 'thanksgivings' for animals who are prepared for food; 'Kosher' ritual just to name one.

But most important to me anyway is you do not have my permission to throw the Karma bag on me for something that you have no say or control over, nor do you have the right to interfere with my choice of living as if your way is the right way!!!!!!!!!

Cause and Effect works very effectively and certainly atrocity's to the planet and all kingdoms are and have been going on for a long time... trial and error lessons do work eventually to bring balance but only if you pray to the Virgin Mary... that is a joke, but a point made about the difference in beliefs or current state of understanding.

Try telling someone to stop taking their medications because they are just synthetic duplicates of plants and were tested on animals, or actually I would tend to think that the animal suffrage at the hands of pharmaceutical company's testing and lab experiments would be far greater than the food source animals provide.

And certainly there are many abuses of animals no doubt about it... next time you wear any kind of make-up think about all the animals that were tested on to perfect the formula... actually how about all the household products in your cupboards right now... these are tested on animals.

My point being is chem-trails and toxic tap water and irradiated dead and packaged food in the grocery stores is far more debilitating to the body than red meat... besides I see a whole lot of unhealthy looking vegetarians in the health food stores these days... but that is just my observation and opinion.

Anyone care to start naming all the diseases that stem from red meat protein deficiency? Besides red meat is just converted plant material; Alchemy, ... no different than plants which are converted from Sunlight!!!!!!!!!!

There are only two elements that exist in the Universe... Metal and Crystal of which support Wood... and the mutation and transmutation of elements moves up the kingdoms towards higher levels of existence to which 'Animations' of Divinity live in!!! Is a plant or animal any less than Divine Intelligence?

[Malynda]

Originally Posted by Christo888

Interesting discussion!!!
Also to note is the Blood Type... type O's are specifically meat eaters, where as A, B, and AB may find it very easy to be vegetarians. Type O operates at a slightly higher Acid base in the body, plus the type of protein that comes from meat is far more potent which has already been covered here. Also, there are many 'thanksgivings' for animals who are prepared for food; 'Kosher' ritual just to name one.
But most important to me anyway is you do not have my permission to throw the Karma bag on me for something that you have no say or control over, nor do you have the right to interfere with my choice of living as if your way is the right way!!!!!!!!! [Please shorten long quotes...K]

Great post, Christo888.

[dagon]

life feeds on life on every level. I do think it important to watch what you eat. and how its harvested and raised. personally, I do some hunting. actually spearfish. lobster hunting, crabbing, scallop harvesting. Im selective. target by species and when spear fishing I usually free dive, usto do a lot of hook and line. but had a hard time with the by catch. the regulations require you to know your species and most have limits. free from hormones and chems for the most part. except for what we humans dump in the ocean. personally I think that flushing our toilets and farming are a greater threat and ultimate disrespect to the living creatures in the ocean and to the planet and to us all. and the list go on. as most of you know. though my views are changing and its not so much about eating meat than it is about the environment and species extinction. heck it in the bible. give a man a fish he eats for a day. teach a man to fish he will have substance for a life time. I think jesus was a fisherman along with a few other things. plants are living. the planet is living. and is constantly replenishing itself. Im against mass farming of livestock. not so much hunting. better for the planet hunting is than farming. I dont feel to much guilt for hunting or gathering some food. it connects me with nature. especially when dun responsibly. I a scuba diver and every time I enter the ocean I enter the food chain. animals eat animals. plants eat plants. and vis versa. its the wheel of life. were all guilty in one way or another. and its no more spiritual or evolved to eat plants than it is to eat a fish or a buffalo. if you waste it. or just killing for sport. well maybe that karma debit may aply? hard to tell. Im not the great spirit. but as far as I can see all cultures have stories uf hunting and gathering for food. its a personal choice. I say stop flushing your waste into the ocean and destroying the environment of all the ocean creatures. go get a composting toilet. if you feel so concerned about the living. and only eat dead plants that lived a full and productive life. they have a propose here to. feeding the bees, mushrooms, ect.....ecttt... life feeds on life... until er can manifest food from thin air. Ill be eating... what's available...and making the best with what I have. and I will give thanks.. to the great spirit.


The Spirit clearly says that in the latter days some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving

[Phtha]

I'm type O. And I'll admit I had a hard time at first adjusting to living without meat. I had a huge drop in energy after the first few months. But I kept with it, kept trying new types of foods and just refusing to give in. Now I have adjusted and have gotten back even more energy then before, I know this because I'm a long distance runner, so it is quite easy for me to gauge my over all energy levels. Switching to 90% raw is what really boosted my energy levels back up, before I was still cooking my veggies more often then not.

It is truly and endless argument though, many points can be brought up on each side, it really comes down to personal experience.

I still think the strongest argument is simply not having to kill animals to eat though.

Originally Posted by Christo888

Interesting discussion!!! Also to note is the Blood Type... type O's are specifically meat eaters, where as A, B, and AB may find it very easy to be vegetarians. Type O operates at a slightly higher Acid base in the body, plus the type of protein that comes from meat is far more potent which has already been covered here. Also, there are many 'thanksgivings' for animals who are prepared for food; 'Kosher' ritual just to name one.

[Christo888]

Leaving the animals alone, and not using them for anything harmful will be a great day!!!

And hey there are currently 30,000 people living on this planet right now that do not eat or drink anything, they simply have balanced a perpetual eco-system within themselves, they are called Suneaters. It is a process and one that takes eons to get there!

We are all made of the Sun.

[Swanny]

Originally Posted by Christo888

And hey there are currently 30,000 people living on this planet right now that do not eat or drink anything, they simply have balanced a perpetual eco-system within themselves, they are called Suneaters. It is a process and one that takes eons to get there!

We are all made of the Sun.

Sorry but if this is true then why are there so many people dieing of starvation this very moment??

[Christo888]

That's why I haven't tried it!!!

[Malynda]

Awesome insights dagon, Christo888 and Swanny. Very interesting takes on things. Thank you for sharing them here.

dagon, I really enjoyed hearing about your life so close to nature and the sea specifically. I see you're in CA like me. I was wondering, what spots are your favorites to dive in and harvest/fish if you wouldn't mind sharing. And what do you do with the shells and such? It sounds like you have really gone far on trying to use everything and be a responsible human and I like hearing about those things.

[dagon]

Originally Posted by Malynda

dagon, I really enjoyed hearing about your life so close to nature and the sea specifically. I see you're in CA like me. I was wondering, what spots are your favorites to dive in and harvest/fish if you wouldn't mind sharing. And what do you do with the shells and such? It sounds like you have really gone far on trying to use everything and be a responsible human and I like hearing about those things.

yes hello malynda

I live in north calif. sonoma. I frequent sonoma and mendocino coast. I also dive the channel islands in sothern calif. I just got back from baha mexico, the town of tortugas. free diving for yellowtail. they manage there fishery very well. no tank diving and no shell fish or lobster. fin fish only. I didn't harvest any fish on that trip. I sure could have. but my friends were doing quite well and I didn't have a need to over due it. I still went home with fish. quite a bit. I smoked it for friends and family as well as my self. 6 days of free diving on a panga. so you see I do have a heart. and I do respect all living creatures. even plants. thanks for asking... I have quite a collection of shells abalone, scallops, snail, different verities and a few that would be considered as trophies. my favorites is lobster diving at the channel islands. hands only no tickle sticks or nets. it not so easy. but it sure is fun. and love to eat lobster. and abalone.I did notice you were some what local. Im going to cortez bank in october. that off shore 20+ miles from ventura.

cheers

[dagon]

my uncle makes bolo tyes, art, knife handles, belt buckles, ect. and takes shells from time to time, but is quite toxic working with shells. when scallop hunting I often heave the shells attached to the rocks. the painted greenling fish likes to use the shells as a home and shelter. and it better for the reek to leave them intact.

[Malynda]

Originally Posted by dagon

my uncle makes bolo tyes, art, knife handles, belt buckles, ect. and takes shells from time to time, but is quite toxic working with shells. when scallop hunting I often heave the shells attached to the rocks. the painted greenling fish likes to use the shells as a home and shelter. and it better for the reek to leave them intact.

Wow, very interesting uses of shells. I never realized the level of toxicity. I have much to learn. I never knew that about the greenling fish either. Learn something new every day. Thank you for giving me some new areas to explore.

[Swanny]

krystal there are some horrible people on this planet that have no respect for anything or anyone else, do you really believe that if those people stop eating meat they will suddenly stop being evil? Can you say that all the people in the vid you just posted are meat eaters? Maybe some are veggies?
And do you think that people that eat meat are evil?

[krystal]

Originally Posted by Swanny

krystal there are some horrible people on this planet that have no respect for anything or anyone else, do you really believe that if those people stop eating meat they will suddenly stop being evil? Can you say that all the people in the vid you just posted are meat eaters? Maybe some are veggies?
And do you think that people that eat meat are evil?

I truly believe that when we stop eating meat we have a deeper compassion for all living beings and eventually it becomes impossible for us to act in a way which would harm another being... It's like a great awakening, a deep sense of being at one with all other beings.... I purposely chose the title of this thread being the opposite of how we feel when we realize that all beings are worth saving no exceptions because we are really ONE! and it's not good to harm part of who we really are, with the utmost love and compassion for everyone.

[Swanny]

I feel exactly the same but I do eat meat.
Eating meat doesn't mean I disrespect other animals, I thank them for the food they have provided me and am happy for the life they got to live.
You think every soul that visits this plane chooses to only live a life free of pain? We choose to live lives of good and bad to experience all sides of everything.

[krystal]

Originally Posted by Swanny

I feel exactly the same but I do eat meat.
Eating meat doesn't mean I disrespect other animals, I thank them for the food they have provided me and am happy for the life they got to live.
You think every soul that visits this plane chooses to only live a life free of pain? We choose to live lives of good and bad to experience all sides of everything.

I doubt it very much you feel the same as someone who doesn't buy their food from a morgue or uses their body as a cemetery that cannot be possible....

Do some research on Voodoo and witchcraft etc.... why do you think they sacrifice animals, use eggs and chickens in their rituals to attract positive power????? It doesn't take much intelligence to figure those simple things out... From a totally different angle, carrying death within you and hatred can only attract evil not good and cause fear in your lives.

[Malynda]

Originally Posted by dagon

this has just turned into a pi$$ing contest...

After seeing the comment below, I think you nailed it, dagon. I had such high hopes I was going to learn something new. There's still hope I suppose.

Originally Posted by krystal

I doubt it very much you feel the same as someone who doesn't buy their food from a morgue or uses their body as a cemetery that cannot be possible....

Do some research on Voodoo and witchcraft etc.... why do you think they sacrifice animals, use eggs and chickens in their rituals to attract positive power????? It doesn't take much intelligence to figure those simple things out... From a totally different angle, carrying death within you and hatred can only attract evil not good and cause fear in your lives.

Not all witches sacrifice animals. I can only speak on witchcraft because I have researched it well. And it does no good to stereotype a whole group of people. I still don't see why you are all for eating plants but seem to regard them as less than animals. I think this whole planet has been created equal, heck the universe for that matter.

[dagon]

Originally Posted by krystal

I doubt it very much you feel the same as someone who doesn't buy their food from a morgue or uses their body as a cemetery that cannot be possible....

Do some research on Voodoo and witchcraft etc.... why do you think they sacrifice animals, use eggs and chickens in their rituals to attract positive power????? It doesn't take much intelligence to figure those simple things out... From a totally different angle, carrying death within you and hatred can only attract evil not good and cause fear in your lives.

I use masturbation in my voodoo and warlock rituals. the energy release is much more exciting. save an animal I say,

[dagon]

sorry about that .. I may have just killed the thread...

[Malynda]

Originally Posted by dagon

sorry about that .. I may have just killed the thread...

Naw I'm just laughing my a** off right now after that.

[krystal]

Originally Posted by dagon

I use masturbation in my voodoo and warlock rituals. the energy release is much more exciting. save an animal I say,

Yes, now you are really showing your level, so do not compare yourself with me or other Noble Beings!

[Malynda]

Originally Posted by krystal

Yes, now you are really showing your level, so do not compare yourself with me or other Noble Beings!

Can you tell me who all these Noble Beings are? What you believe constitutes a Noble Being as you see it please?

[krystal]

Originally Posted by Malynda

Can you tell me who all these Noble Beings are? What you believe constitutes a Noble Being as you see it please?

Yes, sure "Noble Beings" are those who live a Noble Life with love and respect for all living beings those who have an awake and aware conscious of love and kindness for every living being including an insect as All Lives are Precious... those who respect their body as the temple of God or Higher power whatever one wants to call it.