Go Back   Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE) > Project Avalon Forum > Resources > How To Learn About Stuff

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2008, 01:55 PM   #1
Bill Ryan
Project Avalon Co Founder
 
Bill Ryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 353
Default Amateur radio

We're in close touch with Henry Deacon about Amateur Radio and intend to post much more about this on Avalon in due course. There's already an introductory section about Amateur Radio here.

We're wondering if any other visitors are radio 'hams'. Many people (including us) want to learn. Some may be a little daunted.

What's needed is NOT technical expertise, but patience and an ability to teach and communicate with people who are starting from zero and wno may not be technically minded.

What might be very useful is a whole section of this forum devoted to an Amateur Radio Q+A. Henry Deacon would contribute, but is not in a position to lead or organize this.

Anyone out there?
Bill Ryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2008, 07:54 PM   #2
Jma
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 58
Default Re: Amateur radio

Why radio?
We are all telepathically linked, the Aboriginals in Australia use it naturally but we have lost the ability surrounded by all these artificial technologies.
Would you believe I had a dream last night in which, everything was set up as one of your typical project camelot interviews featuring Dan Burisch and David Wilcock and no one wanted to talk?
Jma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2008, 07:56 PM   #3
Olam
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 84
Default Re: Amateur radio

Yes Ham radios will be very useful, especially the old tube ones, they will not be affected by any electromagnetic pulses that we might suffer.
I found a couple on ebay but its difficult to guarantee that they work.
If anyone could point to a good source for working old tube ham tranceivers, that would be awsome.
Also, it would be good to establish some kind of frequency template where we could establish different set "channels" for emergencies and other ones for "situation updates" and general info ect.
Basically make it so that everyone having a radio will easily know what "Channel" to use for a specific purpose.....getting organised in that way will be very important to support the masses and avoid confusion.

JMA....yes I agree, that is the best way to communicate, have people use their souls and spirit guides do the messaging!....the thing is, not every community will have these gifted people around. We need some kind of backup, being very organised and ready with options will be crucial when the serious stuff happends.

We need to be flexible like a cork in a stormy sea......bobble around the waves and still be floating when it calms down.

Last edited by Olam; 09-05-2008 at 08:02 PM.
Olam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2008, 03:52 AM   #4
JoMo
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 17
Default Re: Amateur radio

The links to the introduction to ham radio from the resources page are no longer available? Strange...
JoMo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 04:15 PM   #5
Trel of Earth
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Amateur radio

Im a ham...the tests are not that big a deal...an hour a day of study for a week or so and you can pass it. There are plenty of study resources on the net. they give you all the answers...you simple memorize the correct ones.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2008, 04:21 PM   #6
Kate
Avalon Senior Member
 
Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: currently UK, searching for a safe relocation in next year
Posts: 319
Default Re: Amateur radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ryan View Post
We're in close touch with Henry Deacon about Amateur Radio and intend to post much more about this on Avalon in due course. There's already an introductory section about Amateur Radio here.

We're wondering if any other visitors are radio 'hams'. Many people (including us) want to learn. Some may be a little daunted.

What's needed is NOT technical expertise, but patience and an ability to teach and communicate with people who are starting from zero and wno may not be technically minded.

What might be very useful is a whole section of this forum devoted to an Amateur Radio Q+A. Henry Deacon would contribute, but is not in a position to lead or organize this.

Anyone out there?


I will go set up a thread now ..this is vitaly important information...
Kate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2008, 01:23 AM   #7
Mizar
Avalon Senior Member
 
Mizar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 162
Default Re: Amateur radio

Marine VHS is a good start, lots of cheap transceivers available, but you must have a license, and never use it on dry land.
Good 'ole CB's are good for short distance, and the FRS handhelds are good for short range.
Ham has gone out of style, those who would have done Ham, have now gone to Computers.
I had a Ham ticket, in the past and now may renew.
I have my Marine VHS ticket, that and the boat are our lifelines, everything is on the boat, stored food, Solar and Wind power, fishing equipment, watermaker, etc. and I have renewed my Celestial Navigation ticket, there will be no GPS in a crisis.
Plan B, everybody get to the boat, 6 hour window to get on board, then lights out and out into the Pacific until things calm down
M
Mizar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 12:42 AM   #8
R.Z.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Amateur radio - The ONLY viable option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Deacon
... How about a large ocean-going sailing vessel for Camelot? ...

This is all I can offer, but she's available for the cause !!


(Note: ..."needs work")
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 12:49 AM   #9
Kate
Avalon Senior Member
 
Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: currently UK, searching for a safe relocation in next year
Posts: 319
Default Re: Amateur radio - The ONLY viable option

hiya henry,
wondering if u can either set up a new thread to do with Ham radio....or add to my thread please? doesnt seem to be many people looking in at the moment..i think this is vital info...
all the best to you! ( if u are the 'source' of kerry and bill..many thanks for your insights and sharing!)
namaste
Kate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 12:50 AM   #10
Kate
Avalon Senior Member
 
Kate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: currently UK, searching for a safe relocation in next year
Posts: 319
Default Re: Amateur radio - The ONLY viable option

aaww RZ..that is a lovely boat..bles u for being willing to share!
peace to u
Kate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 12:53 AM   #11
Bill Ryan
Project Avalon Co Founder
 
Bill Ryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 353
Default Re: Amateur radio - The ONLY viable option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Deacon View Post
A frequency list sample was already passed to Bill Ryan. Maybe he can post it here.
Hi, Henry : you meant this?

**********

Amateur radio frequencies should be coordinated for us all to meet on.

For each of the following bands:

80 meters (under 1000 miles - nights)
40 meters (1000 miles day/night)
20 meters (primary global should be this one)
15 meters
10 meters (variable accroding to solar activity and time of day.
6 meters (not reliable)
2 meters (short range, satellite, or repeater use) or via radio/internet gateways

Specific frequencies in each band need to be decided and what modes will be used.

for example: 20 meter band: 14210.00 MHz USB (upper sideband voice)
Bill Ryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 04:19 AM   #12
Mizar
Avalon Senior Member
 
Mizar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 162
Default Re: Amateur radio

Thanks Henry, Nice Post, having been out of Ham for 20 years, Mizar has not kept up. There is one Radio shop left in town I will visit this week.
M
Mizar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 12:59 PM   #13
firstfruit
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 121
Default Re: Amateur radio

I will try once again to get my mate in to this with me he is a electrical engineer to component level with a amateur radio ticket.

Once we were all young yes me and my mates are out and about you know what I mean and this one friend was up in this room building a radio receiver. And just last year he had his first date. You seen the film the 40 year old virgin well my mate was 41 lol

true story
firstfruit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 02:07 PM   #14
Antaletriangle
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: U.K.
Posts: 3,380
Default Re: Amateur radio

Funny this thread was started i used to have a C.B. radio when i was a kid-and was looking on the amateur radio websites 3 months ago,pricing them up etc-valve power is the way in any event of electromagnetic burts. 20 meters for global communication?A decent Di pole/ground plane required.Thanks for posting this-essential info.
Antaletriangle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 03:26 PM   #15
Operator
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 375
Default Re: Amateur radio

Hi,

I will try to compile a few hints to get you going ...

To my opinion there are 3 categories to look at:

1. simple 2 way radio
Handsets that you can buy for personal close range communication. Some of
these sets operate on 430 .. 450 Mhz. I think

2. CB stuff
Nowadays allowed in a lot of countries. Most of the time channels are
overcrowded but that might be less the case after ... you name it.
I think it's capable of extended ranges.

3. HAM radio
In most countries you need a license and you will probably not be able to buy
equipment without a license. To get a license may technically be easy (requires
a short simple study) but in some countries you can only participate an exam
twice a year. A disadvantage may be that in a government controlled environment
HAM radio operators are registered and thus known to those who want to control

If you DO already have the equipment available it's important not to lose it due to EMP
(either man-made or natural). It's important to keep it stored in a
metal container (all necessary parts incl. power supply etc.). isolated from the
container itself. Also important not to have antenna's or other cabling connected
otherwise it will still 'suck in' the EMP ...
(By the way it's useful to keep a spare watch EMP safe as well to track time/date)

Ok in order to organize upfront and improve your chances to contact others in (maybe)
a sea of silence indeed you need more info:

SSB modes:
LSB (lower sideband) is used most under 10 Mhz
USB (upper sideband) is used on frequencies above 10 Mhz
It's no strict rule however ...

Now you already gave a table of the most important HF bands. And in order to keep
things simple you need simple rules.

E.g. extend the 14.210 Mhz. rule to all bands i.e.
Make the base of the band + 210 Khz. the frequency to use ...

This will work for most bands .... so for 80 meters the result will be:

3.5 + 0.210 = 3.710 Mhz which is a sound frequency to use phone (LSB) contact

The same could apply to CW (Morse code) e.g. base + 100 Khz.

Ok, for shorter range FM modulation is used. Most of the time for VHF
(2 meter band 144 .. 148 Mhz.) But on the 10 meter band FM is used also.
I know that in the US even repeaters are used ... Some CB (11 meter band)
sets can be modified to operate on 10 meter band. So you will have a cheap set
but avoid the crowded CB channels.

Ok, to technically make things work you need knowledge about how antenna's work.
If you use wrongly sized antenna's it's possible that you won't get
any power transmitted but reflected back to your set which may even cause
to damage your set.

Ok, if everything is technically working you might need a bit more knowledge about
operating procedures:

- in the USA 10-10 codes are use
- Q codes are international
- NATO spelling alphabet
- learn about prefixes in call signs to establish a country (or maybe even an area)
where the signal is coming from

Please be also aware that the world is divided in ITU regions and that usage of bands
differ a little from region to region.

Ok here are some links to speed up your searches:

http://www4.plala.or.jp/nomrax/ITU_Reg.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten-code

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code

http://www.arrl.org/awards/dxcc/itucalls.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet

Good luck to all of you, success and keep the positive flux going !

Last edited by Operator; 09-09-2008 at 05:13 PM.
Operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 04:14 PM   #16
scottyd
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 8
Default Re: Amateur radio

If anyone is really serious about learning how this works, the very, very best thing to do first is to get a radio that covers the frequencies and modes of interest, and learn how to use it. You don't need a license (in the US) to buy equipment, only to TRANSMIT A SIGNAL. You can, and should, listen, listen, and listen some more to the existing activity to familiarize yourself with "how the whole thing works." It won't take long before some of the mystery disappears. There is no substitute for "hands-on" LISTENING.


-scottyd
scottyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 04:36 PM   #17
Operator
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 375
Default Re: Amateur radio

Hi scottyd,

You're absolutely right of course !
You don't need any license to listen to radio signals, so you don't need anything to buy equipment for these purposes.

And you're also very right that one should get experience by LISTENING first !
It will get hands-on experience indeed.

However one-way communication will not help in difficult times if there's nobody transmitting ... So for this purpose the ultimate goal people seek is 2-way communication ...

To affirm again how right you are let me add 2 rules (out of 7) that most effective
people seem to follow:

1. Begin with the end goal in mind but ....
2. First seek to understand before being understood

And this applies of course to all topics in this forum.

Cheers
Operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 12:16 PM   #18
goldtree
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Amateur radio

I'm interested in learning basic ham radio and think it sounds good to start by just listening.

Scottyd, what kind of radio would you recommend to a beginner? A so called "world band radio"?
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 03:50 PM   #19
scottyd
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 8
Default Re: Amateur radio

Hi goldtree.

A "world band" radio is a good start, as long as it can receive "Single Sideband" (SSB) signals. Some of the older/cheaper ones can't. 99.9% of all amateur voice transmissions (in the HF or "shortwave" bands) are SSB. This is a different type of signal than BBC, Deutche Welle, etc. and requires different circuitry to hear correctly.

-scottyd
scottyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 05:11 PM   #20
Norval
Banned
 
Norval's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On a boat in Tacoma, wa, usa
Posts: 394
Default Re: Amateur radio

Hello all, been into radio since I was a kid back in the 50's.

Have sent a few this way to get their basics and information.

Good work everyone.
Norval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 06:15 PM   #21
Senior Survivor
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Amateur radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ryan View Post
We're in close touch with Henry Deacon about Amateur Radio and intend to post much more about this on Avalon in due course. There's already an introductory section about Amateur Radio here.

We're wondering if any other visitors are radio 'hams'. Many people (including us) want to learn. Some may be a little daunted.

What's needed is NOT technical expertise, but patience and an ability to teach and communicate with people who are starting from zero and who may not be technically minded.

What might be very useful is a whole section of this forum devoted to an Amateur Radio Q+A. Henry Deacon would contribute, but is not in a position to lead or organize this.

Anyone out there?
I've had CB Radios for around 40 years, and they are more for LOCAL Area than Long Distance like Ham Radios, and much Cheaper. If you can find a Base Rig, 40 channels or even the old 23 channels, get it. It is easy to LISTEN to various people by using a piece of wire about 18 feet long hooked over a curtain rod. But DON'T Key (press) The Microphone or you will Blow the Final Transistors. For Listening the piece of any wire, even speaker or lamp wire, cut to length will let you hear people within a few miles.

You could get a BASE "CB Antenna" and put that on a 5 ft piece of pipe in a Tree (above the Branches- the higher the better RANGE for Hearing and Transmitting) and have about 50 -75 feet of Coax Cable with a connector on the end to plug into where the Antenna screws in.. It is important to find a radio Shack, and ask If they Know of any cb'ers who could give them advice, or go to a truckstop and ask the people selling CB's about Base Units and Base Antennas.

You can operate a Mobile CB SET in the house or building using a power supply. Thee can be found doing a Google for "CB Radios". If you have a Mobile CB in the Car, and a CB Antenna (magnet or stationary, you can sit in the car, and listen to traffic on Ch 19 or other channels, but be careful the Battery in your vehicle does not go dead.. Start the vehicle after about 10 minutes or IF your talking , have the vehicle running... But the Radio ...in any case... should be MATCHED to The CB ANTENNA For Safe Receive and Transmit Performance.

You can find a HAM Operator (or CB Operator) usually by the BIG Antenna located near a house or barn. Hope this helps..
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 06:24 PM   #22
elijah_house
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Amateur radio

We have drake 3 transceivers and hallicrafter model S382 transceiver, we are still looking for dc power supplies for the drake (we have a DC 3 and TR 3). Most of our stuff is tube because it is impervious to the electromatic pulse of nuclear bombs. My husband was in the coast guard for 14 years active duty and 3 years reserve, the field he worked in was electronics/communications.
We also have a Ham Radio and Morse Code software course and exams which we have not completed yet. We also have schematics for almost all the tube radios out there on CD's. We also have antennas.
Does anyone know of a source for dc power supplies?
We have a lot of other miscellaneous radio equipment, always had the intention of getting Ham radio operator license. So now may be the time to get going on this project. I spent some time in Ecuador with some Christinan Missionaries and he was a Ham Operator, this is of course how he communicated with friends and families in the states. This is what sparked my interest in this area and because of my husband 's background in the coast guard in electronics/communications, he will be working on the technical part of repairing the old equipment.
elijah_housee
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 08:24 PM   #23
ingalls
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Amateur radio

Hey scottyd and all other knowlegdable HAMs out there. i appreciate your posts. I understand we want a EMP resistant unit. Can you recommend a specific make and model receiver and transmitter with antenna arrangement and where to acquire. Approximate cost would be helpful too. I am completely lost on this but realize the necessity of having this equipment for potential hard times ahead. I'll learn on the go.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2008, 10:28 PM   #24
Charlie
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In the Mountains
Posts: 9
Default Re: Amateur radio

Might I suggest a QRP radio transmitter with a separate receiver. I think most of us may have the need to operate covertly when the stuff hits the fan. QRP is generally 5 watts or less. Detectable but not an overtly profound signal.
Charlie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2008, 12:34 AM   #25
Operator
Avalon Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 375
Default Re: Amateur radio

Hi,

Maybe must explain QRP to our new friends: low power

Ok, adjustable power will do as well. Then you have a choice to use more power when needed.
But considering that you may have to power it from batteries probably low power is what you're looking for.

About EMP resistance equipment: as far as my knowledge goes that would mean expensive military stuff.
The 'amateur' related equipment is not hardened specifically. However often it has a metal casing which could work as a Faraday cage.

But ... if the circuitry is connected to this casing (often used as common or ground) it does NOT protect for EMP.
I am not an expert but really grounding the case might work.

My guess is that affordable stuff is not EMP protected and you have to keep it in an EMP safe place till you need it. Don't connect antennas or other cabling to it unless it's all within the Faraday cage (but that makes no sense).

Cheers
Operator is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Project Avalon