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Old 12-15-2009, 09:09 PM   #1
shiva777
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Default Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

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December 14, 2009

Open Letter to Bill Ryan (and Kerry Cassidy) at Project Camelot and interested members of the Woo-jo.

In the martial arts, especially within those arts of Japanese descent, the place in which one practices their art is called a dojo. The ‘do’ part means ‘path’, while the ‘jo’ part means ‘place’, so the whole translates into ‘place of the (practice) of the path (or ‘way’).

Here at Halfpasthuman, we recognize that what we have labeled as the ‘woo woo world’ exists within a virtual space that we call the ‘woo-jo’.

As within any dojo, conflicts and contention arise. In martial arts dojo’s, such conflicts are dealt with as soon as they arise or they fester and destroy harmony in a very delicate enviroment filled with weapons and deadly skills. In the martial arts, frequently these disputes are brought to the mat in an open fashion before all members of the dojo as all form a community, and thus all are stakeholders in the harmony of the dojo. Thus are the energies dispersed, and opportunities created for harmonization to continue.

Such a conflict has arisen between Bill Ryan (specifically) at Project Camelot and myself. Bill has a thread in his forum at Project Avalon, in which he responds to a question about why I (clif high) think Dr. Bill Deagle is full of **** as a woo-woo personality. I had previously made public statements that I found Bill Deagle’s information to be questionable at best. This caused a question to Bill Ryan of Project Camelot (http://www.projectcamelot.org/) to which he responded.

Bill Ryans’ response to the questioner can be read at their Project Avalon forum, and also below in quotes….
“As best we understand, Clif High set a PI [Private Investigator] on Deagle's bank account without Deagle's knowledge or consent, with an instruction to look for something that could be used against him.

The PI found some income that he could not account for and Clif therefore assumed that he must be a paid agent.

It's an understatement to say that this is very dumb of Clif, who is normally a bright guy. If anyone looked in to my bank account, or yours, or anyone's, they would find things they didn't understand. I don't even understand my own bank statements sometimes.

And because this was all done without Deagle's consent, he was never asked if there was an innocent explanation.

Not good research - and very underhand. We should not be doing this to one another.

My solid opinion: Deagle is a very good man. We've spoken with him extensively, on and off record.

One amazing conversation I witnessed two years ago and have never forgotten (because I was physically in the room where Henry Deacon/ Arthur Neumann was talking with him on Skype) was Deagle and Henry comparing places and projects where they had both worked. Project names, codewords, clearances, everything. They figured out that they must have bumped into one another but couldn't recall where. The conversation lasted 45 minutes and was quite something else.

We've visited his house and met his wife and children. He's a huge-hearted soul with a brain the size of a small planet. He is also human. I respect him highly.”

**** end quoted material

This is incorrect information. I did not hire any PI, nor did I ‘set’ such a person onto Deagle. I find the entire statement made by Bill Ryan here is pejorative in both tone and word selection. His ‘understanding’ is factually wrong. His assumptions about my analytical abilities are wrong. Please re-read Bill Ryan’s statement and note the words used. The tone and words are offensive. The factual ‘errors’ are incriminating and further, Bill Ryan is directly accusatory.

I would have thought that, given the recent problems cited by Bill Ryan himself in his Open Letter to Jeff Rense, as well as the awful treatment that he, himself, has suffered at the digital pen of D. Burish, that he would have been a bit more sensitive in his response to these questions. But I guess not...

I do understand that Bill Ryan has a large energy and emotional investment into the perceived bona fides of the infamous Dr. Bill Deagle. I do understand that any perceived attacks, in a psychology sense, against objects or personalities with which the ego has identified, are treated by the ego as attacks on that ego itself, and that this effect frequently leads to the ‘kill the messenger (of bad news) syndrome’. So the accusatory tone, as well as the prejudicial words may arise from this response.

To be clear. I did not hire any detective to investigate Bill Deagle. I have never been privy to any personal information about Bill Deagle, nor any information which is not publicly available on the internet. My first contact with Bill Deagle (by phone) was so negatively affecting of the state of my ki that I began my own research into Bill Deagle by the simple expedient of Google. Please note…I do my own research. I did not hire anyone and then ‘set them’ onto Deagle with orders to find ‘stuff that could be used against Deagle”. This is a lie. ********. Let me state that again. The characterizations written by Bill Ryan are false, and offensive.

In the investigation that I did perform with Google, the second query that I used was “Dr + Bill + Deagle + fraud”. The results led me directly to the information that I passed on to Bill Ryan that he has misunderstood.

Further, Bill Ryan’s inability to understand his own bank account speaks more to his mental capacities, including judgement, than mine. And just because he cannot understand his bank account in no way reflects my ability to understand both arithmetic and complex mathematics (in many disciplines including banking/finance). Nor does it affect my ability to recognize ******** when I hear it.

Bill Ryan is correct in that I did not ask Bill Deagle’s permission to Google him. I did not feel the need. Was this underhanded? Not in my view.

In spite of Bill Ryan’s declaration to the contrary, I did very good research on Bill Deagle. The results of that research confirmed my initial reaction, and the matter was closed as far as I was concerned.

While I object to Bill Ryan’s characterization of my actions, he is probably correct about my motives. I do not trust Bill Deagle nor is information. And so sought evidence to support the feeling of lack of trust.

Some of the reasons I think Bill Deagle is full of ****:
Setting aside all of the issues raised by Bill Deagle’s past, both real and claimed, I need to note that Bill Deagle is putting out blatant misinformation in his Project Camelot interviews as well as other venues. Specifically he states that my view on pole shifts are incorrect, yet then goes onto describe the same outcome, but through a ‘walking pace’ pole shift without dealing with any of the physics involved… such as the inertia problem and the necessary 12+ planetary earthquake that will accompany ANY planetary crust movement. Further Bill Deagle’s scenario is NOT supported by any of the ancient descriptions of the pole shift from a human perspective. These are always described in ancient literature as cataclysmic. Bill Deagle characterization of the pole shift as a ‘walking pace event’ is also damned by his own words when he states that Japan would go under the waves even in such a ‘walking pace pole shift’. Also please note that the accredited physicist, Bill Ryan never questions any of the statements made by Bill Deagle for any supporting math or science. He merely accepts this information (and note my characterization as follows) hook, line and sinker.

Further, Bill Deagle claims that China is making masses of robots. Hmmm…for me that does not pass the smell test. The questions that instantly arise has to do with lack of evidence for material or brains being used thus by the Chinese. Then there is the issue of why, with 1.2 BILLION humans, and a centuries long history of considering human life as both cheap and expendable, would the Chinese change their basic cultural proclivities, and invest millions of dollars per robot?

Bill Deagle claims to be told by classified sources that underground cities are being completed in the USofA at the rate of 2/two every 11 days or so. Hmmm, then why is there not a price increase in concrete? Or water handling equipment as there always has been when local governments start digging big tunnels? What about all the other material to populate these cities? Is there secret buying from china to fill these cities with beds, and teevees, and gym equipment, and cooking pots and all the millions of tons of other things that humans require? If so, then why is china so poor? Why is all the shipping idled off the South China coast? Where is the global manufacturing boom that would accompany such activity? Where does the energy come from to build these 2/two underground cities every 11 days? What about mass changes in earth from all this underground activity? Perhaps I have missed the point. Maybe somewhere Bill Deagle explained that these cities were ‘ant cities’…or some other more plausible explanation. Basically my question is: if the underground cities exist as Deagle claims, where is there any, objective, real world evidence? Assuming that I am a very bad researcher because my surveys of materials and costs cannot find any support for these underground cities being built, the question is still begged, why has Bill Deagle never provided any evidence for any of his claims?


Also note that Bill Ryan proclaims Bill Deagle to be a good man and states his information to be trustworthy. In Bill Ryan’s opinion.

However, Bill Ryan would have no one in the woo-jo ‘question’ either the motives or the accuracy of anyone else. This is a pattern that has been evidenced by Bill Ryans support of D. Burish and Bill Deagle and his 'defense' mode when their veracity is questioned. Why Bill Ryan should (apparently) fear open dialogue is subject to very legitimate analysis and conjecture. The attitude comes across as arrogance (my characterization here) or outright fear in that he, apparently, has the right to proclaim someone a ‘true guy’, but no one is allowed to question his assertion. Why should Bill Ryan be allowed to ‘anoint’ those who are ‘true guys’ in the woo-woo world? In my universe, people, actions, and words stand for themselves, able to be held up, examined, even gnawed upon to see if they are real, and true…and if they need protection from such an inquiry, there is usually a pretty damn good reason hiding under the covers. Further, I find Bill Ryan’s insistence that Bill Deagle (and D. Burish) are true guys to be the very same tactic used by ThePowersThatBe to try to shove erroneous information into my mind my entire life. I resent it from TPTB, and I resent if from Bill Ryan.

Some woo-jo members may think this open letter is harsh and profane. I agree, it is both. The times are harsh and profane, and neither makes my statements wrong. And I have done nothing in this open letter that Bill Ryan has not himself done in both open letters, and his forum site. And I have deliberately tried to refrain from characterizing Bill Ryan's, or Bill Deagle's motivations in any way. I merely note my objection and refutations to their statements and positions....unlike Bill Ryan who castigates and accuses me both in tone and words.

In my opinion:
Time is short.
The woo-jo cannot afford the time and energy distraction of poseurs and disinfo agents, whatever their motives. My critical analysis tells me that both Bill Deagle and D Burish are such poseurs and disinfo agents.

Bill Ryan maligned me, and attacked my conclusions and motives. Bill Ryan has deliberately used words which do not reflect either my intent, my actions, or my conclusions. Further these words are accusatory, and demand a response. This is it. Bill Ryan brought this issue to the woo-jo with his public statements that I find to be personally offensive, and maligning.

I can easily set aside my personal reaction to Bill Deagle to objectively analyze his information. I have done so repeatedly. Each time I find that the conclusion is that what Bill Deagle says is not supported by even the most cursory of investigations, and no evidence has/is ever provided.

Yes, in my opinion, this is a snarky bit of writing. Yes, in my opinion, I am harsh, but I expect these same harsh and snarky standards to be applied to my work. I get attacked for the information I put out pretty continuously, and take umbrage at Bill Ryan saying that Bill Deagle is to not be analyzed or attacked for his information. Why? Because Deagle claims descent from Moses? Or claims to have been offered (in his own words) mastership of the planet by the Priory of Scion? Even if both claims were true, neither is a reason to avoid scrutinizing Bill Deagles’ information, in fact these would be just the reasons to do an extra thorough investigation of his claims.

Of course, I expect both Bill Ryan, Bill Deagle, and lots of other humans to respond to this. Such is necessary in these woo-jo disputes. Let each make up their own mind as to validity of arguments and statements. That is how an open, asymmetric social organization is created. Not through ordo ab chaos, but rather through continuous recharging of harmony within the chaotic environment.

Of course I am willing to have all the information and projections and forecasts that I publish investigated and analyzed. It is necessary that such a critical, discriminating mind be developed in every human on the internet. I put out our reports in as straight forward a manner as possible such that it will be able to be determined if these are accurate or ********. It is a case of intellectual honesty, if you will allow, even a personal integrity. I put what dates, and other discrete markers that are available, in our work to support that effort at intellectual honesty. Opinions will be individually formed about the accuracy and motives of my work here. That is as it should be. Examine, poke, prod and gnaw until universe reveals facts that can become the core of truth. The reader here would be foolish to take my word for any thing, just as I would be a damned fool to take Bill Deagle, or Bill Ryan’s information without a complete and critical analysis.

It has been Bill Ryan’s response to my critical analysis of Bill Deagle’s information, and stated personal opinion that I did not find Bill Deagle to be credible, that has set this whole stinky mess into manifesting. At first I thought to just bitch to Bill Ryan privately about his abusive language and accusations, and then let it go. However there are, in my opinion, larger issues involved that go to the heart of the woo-jo. I favor a critical, feet on the mat approach to the woo-woo world as it is so important and because time is short.

Bill Ryan has maligned me, and accused me. I am responding and calling him on it. Integrity is what is demonstrated Bill Ryan, the slings and arrows of critical examination that you take, and then prove your case, not what is proclaimed.

Ok, let us take this to the mats!

Of course Bill Ryan is invited to dialogue on this matter in any form he may so choose. Not that he requires my permission for anything….

Masa katsu (true victory is victory over oneself)!
Clif High of halfpasthuman.com
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:15 PM   #2
Bill Ryan
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Actually, the thread title should be Bill Ryan on Clif High's accusations!

I was appreciative that Clif posted my original message correct and unchanged.

(Please do read it carefully, by the way.)

It had been a reply to a question on the Bill Ryan thread, asking why Clif had stated publicly that Bill Deagle was a paid agent. So I answered the question, because that was the purpose of the thread.

Clif was correct about my getting the 'PI' wrong. That was my error. The rest of what I wrote was essentially correct.

The substantive issue is that Clif was trying to smear a whistleblower for reasons best known to himself, and was searching for information he could use to discredit him. For me, that's an integrity issue.

What I'd called a PI [Private Investigator] was described in the original e-mail (sent to me on 14 April) by Clif as a "researcher/detective". This person was NOT hired by him. My mistake, and I'm happy to correct that.

Meanwhile, Clif's reason for escalating this issue publicly was - I'm as sure as I can be - an excuse to raise the profile of his allegations against Bill Deagle. So I will not be wrestling with him anywhere.

But I'll make this simple response here (or else people will wonder why I'm not saying anything) - and then Clif can shout from the rooftops if he wants to make an idiot of himself.

The issue is this. We will protect Camelot whistleblowers against smears and innuendo. If not us, then who? This is our job and is one of the reasons Camelot exists.

If someone wants to create a wonderful new world by raking through the personal finances of someone they disagree with without directly facing to the person they're trying to make a case against, then I suggest that this is not the direction to take to create a new civilization.

It sounds terribly like the old one to me.

Very best wishes to all - Bill

______

Note:

* For me the issue feels closed, and the above is a pretty good statement of where I stand.
* I won't be visiting this thread again. You're welcome to ask me questions on the Bill Ryan thread, and I'll answer them. The reason for this is simply limited time - I can only reasonably monitor one long thread on the forum, and it's helpful for members to have just one place where they can find me. So please forgive me if this is my only post here.
--Cheers, B

Last edited by Bill Ryan; 12-15-2009 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:35 PM   #3
jazzgad
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

shiva the destroyer thank you for posting this excellent response by Cliff

the whole Project Camelot was big lesson and exercise of discernment for me
and I m great full for it .I view PC and as many other like Alex Jones
as another attempt to confuse and delay humanity collective awakening
The end result is that I pay atention not to some external authority
which in this new to me field could be some guy with a hat digital camera
and black projects connections but to what my intuition and heart is telling me .
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:39 PM   #4
Phtha
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

My opinions on this.. if anyone cares.

Calling people (in this case Cliff) "dumb" and "idiot" as Bill has done in both his original post and his response is an action fueled by ego for the ego. Insults do not exist otherwise.

It worked as cliff had to defend himself, and who can blame him?

Both Cliff and Bill are voices I respect and I find it unfortunate that people who are on the same side (at least on the surface) are turning against one another.

This is of course... the old divide and conquer. So my question is, who is the third party who has started this ancient wheel to turn? There is one involved, have no doubt. Is it Deagle himself? I dare not guess....

I also don't agree with Bills stance on defending his whistleblowers. I think the whistle blowers words should speak for themselves, and they (thanks to the internet) have many methods to defend themselves should the need arise.

Love you guys both! But I really think there is a 3rd here causing this friction... is it ever any other way?
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Old 12-15-2009, 10:53 PM   #5
Awelion
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Cliff seems to be honest.

Deagle seems to be dis-honest.

Bill Ryan has chosen.

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Old 12-15-2009, 11:07 PM   #6
gibonos
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

I follow my heart. Always.
I could listen to Clif (very eloquent) and Bill Ryan (very peaceful and kind) talking, few hours straight. I can't bear listening to more than couple minutes of Deagle's talk.
I can't stand his manipulation and nlp techniques, as far is info for me it's disinfo, doesn't pass the smell test.

I'm surprised that Bill Ryan is defending Deagle so much, we all remember what happend with Burish and the support he used to have before the incident.

gibonos

ps. I beleive the thread name is 100% correct
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:14 PM   #7
Lorien
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

I agree Phtha.

I also have a few comments of my own.

1) If I am going to investigate someone, to validate what they are telling me whether it be their background, knowledge, experiences, income whatever, do I need their permission? Granted, yes I would need it to check their bank records, which begs the question did Cliff really verify this an base his beliefs on that? If so, how did he do so, or is this just an assumption on Bill's part, or just a misunderstanding.

2) I agree that if a whistleblower truly is putting themselves in danger, and providing information, then yes we should protect them. However we should never take what they say as truth without verifying it on a daily basis. Unfortunately what we are up against is far more nefarious than what any of us can imagine. They can truly create people with entire histories, including friends to corroborate those histories. Just because someone has a conversation with someone for 45 minutes, sharing similarities, does not make it fact.

3) My opinion on Dr Deagle, and this comes from my gut which is never wrong, is that he is full of it. I have watched all his interviews, and I just do not trust him. This is my opinion though, and it is my right to have it. As it is Bills right to have his, and Cliff's right to have his. Attacking each other because of differentiating beliefs about another person is just ridiculous, and does nothing for any of use.

And so I ask, can't we all just agree to disagree? It would be one thing if Cliff came here to bash Dr Deagle over and over again, but I have seen no such thing, an so does not deserve such negativity.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorien View Post
3) My opinion on Dr Deagle, and this comes from my gut which is never wrong, is that he is full of it. I have watched all his interviews, and I just do not trust him. This is my opinion though, and it is my right to have it. As it is Bills right to have his, and Cliff's right to have his. Attacking each other because of differentiating beliefs about another person is just ridiculous, and does nothing for any of use.
Agreed.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:43 PM   #9
TheChosen
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

What if everyone is correct. Yes Bill Deagle is a deep insider, was privy to many secret information but this doesn't mean that he can see the future. This means Cliff may be completely right when he says that Deagle's view on 2012 is scientifically flawed.. this doesn't make Deagle dishonest.. only wrong in his future projections.

I've noticed there seems to be this tendency to believe everything an insider says. We have to be very discerning to what of that knowledge was gained by 1st hand contact with secret information and what is just opinions and projections based on their own limited mental patterns.

The best example for this is Burish. While having extremely valuable deep inside info, much of his mental patterns seem very much 'in the box' .. so a lot of his projections on other things apart of his insider knowledge seem very off the mark (for example the vaccine scene)
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:25 AM   #10
TruthWillSetUFree
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phtha View Post
My opinions on this.. if anyone cares.

Calling people (in this case Cliff) "dumb" and "idiot" as Bill has done in both his original post and his response is an action fueled by ego for the ego. Insults do not exist otherwise.

It worked as cliff had to defend himself, and who can blame him?

Both Cliff and Bill are voices I respect and I find it unfortunate that people who are on the same side (at least on the surface) are turning against one another.

This is of course... the old divide and conquer. So my question is, who is the third party who has started this ancient wheel to turn? There is one involved, have no doubt. Is it Deagle himself? I dare not guess....

I also don't agree with Bills stance on defending his whistleblowers. I think the whistle blowers words should speak for themselves, and they (thanks to the internet) have many methods to defend themselves should the need arise.

Love you guys both! But I really think there is a 3rd here causing this friction... is it ever any other way?
Very well written post phtha, I concur wholeheartedly.

Actually, this was the question I posed to Bill Ryan on his thread about disinfo and Bill Deagle specifically.

I still stand by the very wise words "By their fruits you shall know them"

Bill Deagle has shown himself to have rotten fruits.

When I first saw the Granada Forum video 2 years ago, I liked and admired Bill Deagle. Now, since I have been following him and his 'work', not only am I less fond of him, I do not believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

I did not like what he did to Jane Burgermeister, at that time involving Dr True Ott, by pasting an unfortunate woman's picture inside a youtube video saying all kinds of nasty things about her just because she was having such an impact in the conspiracy community and making a name for herself, which btw, she was not intending to do as her intent was always to help humanity by getting out the information.

Thank God Bill Ryan did the interview on Jane which, again IMO, really showed who she is as a decent human being sticking her neck out to help the rest of us.

No, I will not listen to Deagle again, especially since whenever/where ever he is involved, there will always be separation, chaos, disinformation, fear mongering and strife between good people.

Bill and Clif are good people. I hope Bill begins to see who Deagle truly is and what his motives are.

I don't know what kind of spell Deagle holds over some who are so mesmerized by him, I don't get it at all.

Truth
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:28 AM   #11
CC4
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Wow. I am a bit surprised at all this name calling over what?. If someone is on the up and up on his information? We all have to come to that conclusion by using our own discretion. Just because PC has interviewed some person does not mean I believe what they say. Everyone is going to have to make up their own minds. And I think it is a mistake for Bill to say he thinks it is best to support Bill Deagle. It is best to wait and see. I seen and heard all of Bill's interviews here and elsewhere and I don't believe all of what he says. Most disinfo agents mix some truth with some lies that is how the game seems to be played now days.
Peace
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:17 AM   #12
Luana
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

~Bump~
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Old 12-16-2009, 02:44 AM   #13
ramallamamama
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Ryan and Deagle just got pwned By Clif High.



Lolz.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:07 AM   #14
jazzgad
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

for me it is instant karma in action
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:32 AM   #15
DAYDREAMER
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Whenever there have been questions about Bill Deagle and Dan Burisch on Camelot, I have said that they are both disinfo agents and I have come to that conclusion by watching almost all of their videos and reading their testimonies (tall stories). In fact I distincly remember both of them (conspiring together no doubt) together in one video that was quite old, cause they looked 10 years younger at least, where they were talking on a radio show of Deagle's, talking their nonsense.

They have both managed to take advantage of Bill and Kerry and gained their trust by misleading them and then being presented to Project Camelot's followers as trustworthy whistleblowers. I also believe that Arthur Neumann (Henry Deacon) is conspiring with them to mislead PC, after seeing him in their European conference tour and being very unimpressed with the little that he had to say and Bill Ryan claiming his info was the same as other whistleblowers like Burisch.

How can Bill be convinced to question what these people are saying?


Deagle and Burisch have been around for a while now and nothing they have said adds up or any predictions been accurate. Deagle has been saying things about prison camps in the USA for probably more than a decade.

Why should Bill disregard information about Deagle that is proof of his untrustworthyness? It has to be taken into consideration. He also fails to question Burisch after what he did recently, breaking ties with PC...

I don't mean to say anything bad towards Bill Ryan, just that in my opinion as a faithful PC supporter and follower think that he should be more careful when dealing with people claiming to be real whistleblowers and not be too easily trusting. If there is any doubt from himself or from what others have experienced with these whistleblowers, then it is certainly prudent to not believe all that they say and to look into and investigate them.
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:47 AM   #16
Moxie
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

True colors comes shining through.
Hmm... do I see another fallout coming?
Kerry? you alright?

Love you Cliff! Love you all... just stunned some here with you Bill.
Dang!
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:56 AM   #17
ramallamamama
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAYDREAMER View Post
Whenever there have been questions about Bill Deagle and Dan Burisch on Camelot, I have said that they are both disinfo agents and I have come to that conclusion by watching almost all of their videos and reading their testimonies (tall stories). In fact I distincly remember both of them (conspiring together no doubt) together in one video that was quite old, cause they looked 10 years younger at least, where they were talking on a radio show of Deagle's, talking their nonsense.

They have both managed to take advantage of Bill and Kerry and gained their trust by misleading them and then being presented to Project Camelot's followers as trustworthy whistleblowers. I also believe that Arthur Neumann (Henry Deacon) is conspiring with them to mislead PC, after seeing him in their European conference tour and being very unimpressed with the little that he had to say and Bill Ryan claiming his info was the same as other whistleblowers like Burisch.

How can Bill be convinced to question what these people are saying?


Deagle and Burisch have been around for a while now and nothing they have said adds up or any predictions been accurate. Deagle has been saying things about prison camps in the USA for probably more than a decade.

Why should Bill disregard information about Deagle that is proof of his untrustworthyness? It has to be taken into consideration. He also fails to question Burisch after what he did recently, breaking ties with PC...

I don't mean to say anything bad towards Bill Ryan, just that in my opinion as a faithful PC supporter and follower think that he should be more careful when dealing with people claiming to be real whistleblowers and not be too easily trusting. If there is any doubt from himself or from what others have experienced with these whistleblowers, then it is certainly prudent to not believe all that they say and to look into and investigate them.
Hi DAYDREAMER,

I missed the Burisch confab, do you have a link?

Thanks!
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:18 AM   #18
DiVineEnvy
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree View Post
...Bill Deagle has shown himself to have rotten fruits... I did not like what he did to Jane Burgermeister, at that time involving Dr True Ott, by pasting an unfortunate woman's picture inside a youtube video saying all kinds of nasty things about her just because she was having such an impact in the conspiracy community and making a name for herself, which btw, she was not intending to do as her intent was always to help humanity by getting out the information.

Thank God Bill Ryan did the interview on Jane which, again IMO, really showed who she is as a decent human being sticking her neck out to help the rest of us.
Agreed. What Deagle did to 'character assassinate' Jane Burgermeister was rotten beyond belief. I simply stopped listening to him after that.

Last edited by DiVineEnvy; 12-16-2009 at 04:30 AM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:33 AM   #19
DAYDREAMER
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

@RAMALLAMAMAMA

The video I saw of Deagle and Burisch, I saw about a year ago. Somewhere on youtube probably. Deagle has a radio show I think it's called Clay and Iron. The video is of the 2 of them in the radio studio and they were a lot younger. Deagle was much thinner, thats for sure. They know each other well is what I was trying to infer, and it leads me to believe that they are working together in providing disinformation.

If you wanted to know about Burisch's break with PC, you will find info on this forum.

Anyway, here is another video that was easy to find with Cliff High talking to a caller of his show about Burisch and a bit about Deagle, that is relevant to this discussion.



http://vodpod.com/watch/2071558-vide...e-not-credible


and here is a page exposing Burisch that I found on a link from the Project Avalon forum long after I came to my own conclusions about Dan Burisch: http://www.ufowatchdog.com/burischdirtbag.html

Last edited by DAYDREAMER; 12-16-2009 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:36 AM   #20
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

i think PC should present the evidence and let people draw their own conclusions. I thought that was the intent of PC? Maybe I'm missing something. There is no need to 'endorse' anyone in particular. That is a road that leads to trouble and blowback. If tany whistleblower speaks truth, it will stand on its own. If disinfo, people will eventually see through it or something will leak out. Personally, I don't trust Dr. Deagle, or 'Dr. Pete Peterson' for that matter...I choose not to listen to them. Clif High on the other hand, is someone I do trust.
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:59 AM   #21
Operator
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

I keep it simple ... as soon as any character deems it necessary to throw mud to another he/she automatically loses credibility ... period.

It is always a distraction ...
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:00 AM   #22
mkspllmn
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Cant we all just get along.
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:05 AM   #23
orthodoxymoron
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Once more...I just consider everything connected with controversial and hard to verify subjects...as being science fiction...which could very possibly be true. I try to listen to a wide variety of sources...and look for commonalities and verifications. Many of the subjects we discuss are hard to pin down with any conclusive finality.

This world is truly a world of arguing, fighting, suing, slandering, warring, etc. I really want a world ruled by we the people of the world...but sometimes I really wonder if we're ready to do this. We may have to endure the New World Order for a few decades or a few centuries...before we become responsible and peaceful enough to properly rule ourselves.

I wonder...did Art Bell get involved in this sort of thing? He seemed to be pretty detached...with almost a skeptical amusement toward a lot of his guests and callers. Whether this is a good thing or not is another question. Did Art Bell ever defend Jonathan Reed? Did you ever see the Art Bell Burrito connected with this case?

Keep up the good work...Cliff and Bill. This sort of thing goes with the territory...I guess.

Namaste
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:30 AM   #24
Bobbie
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Default Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

Sometimes kind and gentle souls can make the mistake of unknowingly befriending wolves in sheeps clothing. Those wolves know exactly how to ingratiate themselves to and abuse the goodness of another human being. That's the con and they are very proficient at it. It calls to mind a famous quote, "So great the con of man". Project Camelot's charge to discover truth is such a risky and treaterous business - especially when dealing with the destiny and future of mankind as a whole. Unfortunately a good practice might just be to keep business business and friends friends - never allowing the twain to meet....and leave it at that. As hard as it is to accept sometimes, not everyone is our friend and may we have the wisdom to know the difference. Blessings to all and may grace and goodness follow us all the days of our lives.
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Old 12-16-2009, 05:45 AM   #25
Surial
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Wink Re: Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

In my opinion everyone is way off course. We have too many challenges to face in this world. This planet is in a very primitive state of development. We are now reaching a point where we can advance as a race. What concerns me are the many interchanging distractions that are caused by such information exchanges. To have a clear goal in mind is to ground your direction to a solid frequency. Scattered energies only distract your path.
Whatever path you desire to follow is the path you have chosen and forms your role in this Earth Drama Symphony.

If you are looking to find pieces of the puzzle from an external source, you will more than likely always be misled. Go within for your answers and you will follow your destined path of spiritual development. And yes, spiritual warfare is what this is all about. If you fall into the traps of pride, ego, and competition, these are the lower vibrations that will serve no purpose in your development.

It is good to connect to frequencies that resonate to help you follow through your journey. But the overall collective and consciousness is also affected. The transmutation of energies from one form to another is only another step of shifting to the natural developed state of being. We all have our own value to the cause. But first realize what cause you really represent. And the value that you create also has a responsibility.

If there are those that are lost and need others to verify your beliefs, remember that your beliefs are your creations. These creations determine the fate of the overall outcome or consciousness. And if your creations are depending on other creations, then are they really yours to begin with? Or are they just a mirror to show you what it is you really need to focus on to develop as a spiritual being? Or is there really a comprehension of desiring such a progression?

The consciousness of your virtual three dimensional reality is only one aspect of your total being. If you must encourage to reflect from your lower self to help enlighten or progress to express your higher self, remember the natural order of universal laws that apply are not the same in a physical duality existence.

It is not important on who is discredited, but how you deal with the information. Money is a self serving structure and to base a living on the fate of humans in this transitional time is a very big responsibility. There are many people that are struggling and suffering from the challenges that we face. There are many good people here that are looking for answers due to not developing their own inheritance. The inheritance is the light. And when all light is brought together, this will help all the humans on this Earth move forward on the illuminated path of a new Utopia.
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