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Old 05-25-2009, 06:21 PM   #1
Karen
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Default Is Vegan/Vegetarian an Illuminati Deception?

I've been studying the vegan/vegetarian question for many years and have been most impressed with the metabolic typing school of thought where some people, perhaps around 25% can do very well as primarily vegetarian while most people cannot. I've probably seen 99% of the pros and cons of each system and believe that humans are omnivores. http://westonaprice.org has a lot of information backing the omnivore line of thought.

Several years ago I found the information from Janet and Stewart Swerdlow that says the vegan teachings are an Illuminati/Reptilian deception to weaken us. I know its a very hot debate with a lot of entrenched myths in place, so I have hesitated to present it for discussion. I recently witnessed a couple of people talking about going vegan and again it raised a concern for me about the wisdom of excluding everything of animal origins from the diet, and coincidentally I came across this copy of Q & As from the Swerdlows.

Quotes:
http://www.expansions.com/Archives/QA_Archives.cfm?DOP=2002-3-1

Vegetarianism
Posted: March, 27, 2002
I agree with most of your article. I feel there is no difference between killing a plant or an animal etc. But, I live in India. There are millions of healthy vegetarians in this country. I even know health vegetarian dogs. Also what do you make of all those studies that "prove" humans were not meant to eat meat, based on the length of their intestines and digestive system, compared to meat eating animals?

Janet's Reply: The energy fields of vegetarians are weaker than those of flesh-eaters. India has a very short life span compared to flesh-eating countries. The experiments that you speak of were designed by Illuminati scientists to deceive the public.

Vegetarianism
Posted: June, 30, 2007

What is your and Janet's opinion on vegetarianism? To me the unnecessary mass slaughter of animals for food is no better than what the puppet masters do to humans. If you eat meat (that includes fish) you are ingesting all the suffing and misery of the animal. If humans were meant to eat meat then we would have sharp teeth and claws and we would be able to digest raw meat and fur like real carnivorous animals. Humans can get all the protein they need from plants, like spirlina and maca.

Stewart's Reply: We have made it very clear over the years that humans are omnivores, not herbivores. Plants on farms also suffer and have feelings. Plants and animals are here for a purpose of nourishing all above them on the food chain. Human DNA is made up of animal protein bases. We need that to repair and grow our cells. Otherwise, it is like a copy machine running out of ink.

Vegetarians weaken and die eventually sooner than others. A study done in New England showed that people who drank whole organic milk, ate organic meats and even smoked organic cigarettes, lived longer and happier than those who restricted themselves.

This has also been shown in studies in Russia, South America and Asia.

The proteins from plants is good for us, but not enough. The woman who brought macrobiotic vegetarianism to the US is dead from ovarian cancer at a young age because her body was not strong enough to fight it off. Humans need animal proteins. You need like material to build the body.

More On Vegetarianism
Posted: June, 30, 2007
Re: Vegetarianism. Plus, there is some connection with Vegetarianism and the Reptilian agenda. The argument is that it is more spiritually evolved to be a veg. Hitler was a vegetarian and someone said it could have some connection with allowing greater demonic possession.
Stewart's Reply: Yes, it weakens the body energy and allows for entry of programming and astral entities.

Here's a full-blown discussion from where I found the last Swerdow quote:
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/archi...hp/t-9848.html

Last edited by Karen; 10-08-2009 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:03 PM   #2
burgundia
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

So most people in India should be possessed by malevolent entities.
Somehow I do not buy his theory that it is Illuminati agenda, let's not exaggerate with everything.
I try to limit the meat intake to minimum ( very, very rarely poultry and fish). however i eat a lot of dairy foods. I do not mind eating seafood ( crabs, shrimps,etc.).
the biggest problem for me is eating other mammals...

And I am quite healthy
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:10 PM   #3
Karen
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

http://westonaprice.org/about.html



The Weston A. Price Foundation is a nonprofit, tax-exempt charity founded in 1999 to disseminate the research of nutrition pioneer Dr. Weston Price, whose studies of isolated nonindustrialized peoples established the parameters of human health and determined the optimum characteristics of human diets. Dr. Price's research demonstrated that humans achieve perfect physical form and perfect health generation after generation only when they consume nutrient-dense whole foods and the vital fat-soluble activators found exclusively in animal fats.
The Foundation is dedicated to restoring nutrient-dense foods to the human diet through education, research and activism. It supports a number of movements that contribute to this objective including accurate nutrition instruction, organic and biodynamic farming, pasture-feeding of livestock, community-supported farms, honest and informative labeling, prepared parenting and nurturing therapies. Specific goals include establishment of universal access to clean, certified raw milk and a ban on the use of soy formula for infants.
The Foundation seeks to establish a laboratory to test nutrient content of foods, particularly butter produced under various conditions; to conduct research into the "X Factor," discovered by Dr. Price (now believed to be vitamin K2); and to determine the effects of traditional preparation methods on nutrient content and availability in whole foods.


More at: http://westonaprice.org/about.html
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:25 PM   #4
Metaphor
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Fellow avalonians.
Oh no, another vegetarian thread. It can easily divide a forum faster than light. Gotta balance my words.

I can only speak for myself. Ofcourse this is a very private choice.
I have excluded all meat except seafood/ fish from my diet I can only say the choice came simultaneously with my "awakening" 1 1/2 year ago.
Going vegan seems far fetched though IMO.
I cannot say that there has been any major health improvements but a more functional stomach. My body sometimes crave for meat, but I donīt give in to it.
I am eternal consciousness i.e. "eternal love" not the lump of meat I incarnate. Would "love" eat the babies of lambs or cows? Questionable.
Donīt we get mad when we hear stories about reptilians eating the inferior humans or our little children. Do we do the same to inferior species? Yes we do. They have the upper hand until we consider a more humane treatment to our animals and the earth. That doesnīt mean that if everybody goes vegan we will be saved.

This is a spiritual principle, not a religion. I do not enforce others this. My children still eat meat, the choice has to come from each individual who wanna do this.
You perhaps donīt get extra bonus points in the afterlife for not eating animals. Its not about that, its more like a silent protest (The mere fact that this disturbs some people says alot)
Itīs also about that from a certain viewpoint eating meat is kind of barbaric, like it or not. Read that again "certain viewpoint".

It doesnīt say iīm right just that I do not want to eat flesh. Its very common here that the debate gets infected with who is right or wrong. There is no such thing. Just viewpoints.
Peace
/meta

PS. why do you turn to the Swerdlows to tell you what to eat? Its like turning to David Icke to know what used car to buy.
Make the choice basd on your own assumptions, you will probably feel what is right if you meditate on it for some time.
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:29 PM   #5
Phtha
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Ok, maybe the title of this thread does have some truth. As there are many types of vegeterian diets.
The vegeterian diet that we are fed through the mainstream is no doubt evil. That one that says soy is joy! And that same vegeterian diet that does not mention the fact that heating vegetables above 118 degrees F. Kills enzymes. If we don't eat enzymes, then our bodies start to rob enzymes from our glands, muscles, nerves, and blood. Enzyme shortages are seen in virtual every chronic illness, from allergies, skin disorders, obesity, and heart disease and many types of cancer.

Read Dr. Edward Howells research for more info. Another great doctor and scientist who has been surpressed by the illuminati co.

So in answer, yes if you are a veggy that eats lots of soy,along with cooked food, you will get sick and disease, like all the rest of the flesh eaters.


As for Janets reply about vegetarians having a shorter life span.. What type of vegetarian is she talking about? The soy veggies will no doubt die faster then they should, but for raw food veggies such as myself, this is absolute lies.. Walk into any hospital and ask all the sick what they eat, I bet not many are vegetarians, and not ONE of them will be on a raw food only diet...

But how about the fact that not only have anthropoligical historians PROVEN that the Essenes avg life span was 120 years, but also many writings from the time of the Essenes also assert this fact.
And the Essenes only ate raw living foods.

I guarantee Karen, that only 25% do ok as veggies because most people have no idea that cooking veggies kills them and any benefits they offer. Yes sickness will result.

Eat life gain life, eat death gain death.
Simply as that.
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:32 PM   #6
Phtha
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Here is something else that is quite interesting:

Its amazing how similar hemoglobin (Human blood molecules) and clorophylll (Plant blood molecules) are.
The only difference is that plant molecules have magnesium at the center while human blood has iron. When eating raw vegetables the magnesium is converted to iron and we create new and fresh blood cells. Chlorophyll is destroyed when cooking vegetables.




Green is the color of our love. Why? Greens feed and protect your heart and blood. This is some fascinating stuff here. The center element of the hemoglobin in your human blood is iron, which reflects the red color of the light spectrum. The center element in the chlorophyll of plant blood is magnesium, which reflects the green color of the spectrum. Take a look at the similarity between human hemoglobin and plant chlorophyll.

Your body recognizes plant blood very well, as it is almost identical to our own blood. I have considered making a t-shirt that says, “I drink plant blood” to make drinking green drinks more cool and appealing to children. Now, we have a raging epidemic of heart disease in western societies. This entirely preventable condition we develop through eating a Standard American Diet will kill about 1.1 million Americans this year, and even more next year if we don’t wake up. A Plant-Based diet of Nutrient Dense Foods has been proven to reverse even the most heinous cardiovascular disease. Look up the clinical research and proof by Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, M.D. at www.HeartAttackProof.com for all the photos and complete evidence/discussion. Also, you will want to see Day 43 of the 92-Day Program on Heart Disease and Hypertension for a 1-hour video with Dr. Esselstyn, And women – you are not immune from cardiovascular disease. In the West, women are 8 times more likely to develop heart disease than breast cancer. So, our hearts are compromised through a processed diet, and also through deficiency of an important element: magnesium, which is seventeen times as prevalent in the human heart as in any other tissue in the body. This is extremely important to helping support the heart.

Famous research scientist E. Bircher called chlorophyll "concentrated sun power" and said, "chlorophyll increases the functions of the heart, affects the vascular system, the intestines, the uterus, and the lungs. It raises the basic nitrogen exchange and is therefore a tonic which considering its stimulating properties cannot be compared with any other."

http://www.juicefeasting.com/JuiceFe...6/Default.aspx
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:30 PM   #7
Lorien
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
Fellow avalonians.
Oh no, another vegetarian thread. It can easily divide a forum faster than light. Gotta balance my words.

I can only speak for myself. Of course this is a very private choice.
I have excluded all meat except seafood/ fish from my diet I can only say the choice came simultaneously with my "awakening" 1 1/2 year ago.
Going vegan seems far fetched though IMO.
I cannot say that there has been any major health improvements but a more functional stomach. My body sometimes crave for meat, but I donīt give in to it.
I am eternal consciousness i.e. "eternal love" not the lump of meat I incarnate. Would "love" eat the babies of lambs or cows? Questionable.
Donīt we get mad when we hear stories about reptilians eating the inferior humans or our little children. Do we do the same to inferior species? Yes we do. They have the upper hand until we consider a more humane treatment to our animals and the earth. That doesnīt mean that if everybody goes vegan we will be saved...
I'm just curious, What makes the babies of lambs and cows any more important than the babies of crabs and fish, or ants for that matter?? Why can you eat one living creature but not the other??

And yes I would get quite angry if I heard a reptilian ate someones baby, however I would be equally angry if that same persons baby was eaten by a shark or a lion. At what point is there a separation where it's either ok or not for one living being to consume another?

Personally I am a meat eater. Always have been and always will be until something major happens to convince me otherwise.
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Old 05-25-2009, 09:36 PM   #8
Karen
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Yes, soy is a big problem according to my research. As for raw food, it is a great addition to a balanced diet and something many people could use more of. Chet Day is one of those who tried the raw vegan diet and now hosts some articles on his website about why this does not and cannot work for everyone.

Excerpt from http://www.chetday.com/hallelujah-diet-dangers.htm


Hallelujah Acres Research Cast Doubt On "Ideal Diet"

By Greg Westbrook
Former Health Minister


If you are a newcomer to the Gen 1:29 Diet, this article may not make much sense right now. Newcomers to the diet often feel like a frisky colt in the early going. Some even overcome serious disease on the diet.
But if you’ve been on the diet for several years like we were, this article may be a godsend. After only three years on the diet, we sadly admitted to ourselves that we were losing ground; going backwards in our health, not forward. If you’ve experienced new and troubling symptoms in your health on the Gen 1:29 Diet, take heart. You haven’t failed the diet. The diet has probably failed you.


http://www.chetday.com/meatandpg.htmExcerpt from:
Why an Expectant Mom Said No to a Strict Vegan Dietby Victoria

Chet, I cannot tell you how many people have contacted me saying they tried the all raw, animal-excluded diet and could not stick to it. And the sad part is, they actually have guilt feelings about not being able to say no to cooked food and meat and/or dairy. Quite a few people admitted that they would stick to all raw for a while and then without fail, they would end up bingeing like crazy on cheese after a few weeks. Now after reading some recent evidence that many people following vegan diets were B12 deficient, it is no wonder why these binges happen.
After being on-line and helping thousands of people try to change over to a healthy lifestyle I can say this: "There is no ONE eating plan that suits every body." I believe everyone needs to eat more fruits and vegetables and there is no one that can argue that, but as far as eating animal products go, people need to be open minded about it.
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Old 05-25-2009, 10:23 PM   #9
Karen
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Examples of metabolic typing, but first look out for disinfo angents.


Excerpt from: http://www.curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=500765&s=1#i1 The man who started the Metabolic Typing Diet was Dr. Kelley when he needed to cure his own pancreatic cancer, not Dr. Wolcott or any other person who infiltrated the Kelley program (sponsered by the pharmaceutical industry) ... In figuring out the metabolic nuances needed to treat and reverse his cancer, Kelley was able to come up with a protocol which enabled him to help many people cure their cancers too. The cancer/pharmaceutical industry caught wind of what he did and gave him a really rough ride(tehre's a suprise). In the end they couldn't stop him so what they did is a warning to everyone in this forum. They had several people infiltrate his organization, then start up their "new improved" systems which according to Kelley, were designed not to work. It was a way to use marketing and disinformation to cloud Kelley's successful work and results with a new improved method that WILL NOT WORK. Classic disinfo propoganda measures. According to Kelley, William Wolcott is the main disinfo person who is now author of the best selling Metabolic Typing Diet

http://www.drkelley.info/articles/ar...artid=320Recap of The Twelve Types of Metabolism ~

~ Vegetarian Types ~
Type 1 - Needs no animal products at all. Can live entirely on fruits, vegetables and nuts.
Type 4 - Needs some animal products such as fish, chicken, eggs and unpasteurized goat cheese several times a week.
Type 6 - Combination of Types 1 and 4, but has horrible metabolism. Needs more food to make up for lack of absorption.
Type 11 - Most efficient sympathetic metabolizers. They need little food and prefer fruits and sugars to other foods.
~ Carnivore Types ~
Type 2 - Needs meat up to 14 ounces a day, preferably beef. Has little or no energy unless they eat meat.
Type 5 - Needs meat to feel good, but less often, perhaps 2-3 times a week.
Type 7 - A cross between Types 2 and 5 but with a horrible metabolism.
Type 12 - A supper efficient metabolizer Happy, cheery.
~ Balanced Types ~
Type 3 - Has horrible metabolism. Only absorbs 15% of what he or she eats. Feels so bad that they often wish they were dead.
Type 8 - Normal balanced metabolism. - Can eat and benefit from all foods, provided they are wholesome.
Type 9 - Needs 70% cooked food in diet. Hates raw food.
Type 10 - Super-efficient metabolizer. Needs very little food and sleep, yet feels terrific
~ Metabolic Type Spiral ~
This is what we call the Metabolic Type Spiral. It shows all 12 metabolic types and their relationship to each other, their sympathetic or their parasympathetic dominance and their metabolic efficiency.


For more detail on each type/Keep reading: http://www.drkelley.info/articles/archive.php?artid=320 Copied here is one example.



~ MetabolicType Nine ~
Type Nine metabolizers are in the balanced class - their sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems work equally well. This type is the most difficult to understand. If these people had a choice, they would always prefer cooked food. Working with these people through the years has led to the conclusion that they truly cannot do well on raw foods. Evidently they have mutated to the point that they need cooked food to be satisfied. They generally require 70% cooked food and can comfortably handle 30% raw food. Type nine metabolizers do best when they can eat at Smorgasbord three or four times a week. In other words, if they eat a little of everything, they function best.
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:10 PM   #10
Metaphor
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorien View Post
I'm just curious, What makes the babies of lambs and cows any more important than the babies of crabs and fish, or ants for that matter?? Why can you eat one living creature but not the other??

And yes I would get quite angry if I heard a reptilian ate someones baby, however I would be equally angry if that same persons baby was eaten by a shark or a lion. At what point is there a separation where it's either ok or not for one living being to consume another?

Personally I am a meat eater. Always have been and always will be until something major happens to convince me otherwise.
Yes, Lorien. A very proper question. And as stated above this can only be answered by oneself. In my own case itīs all about intent. Intent meaning that Iīl try to respect all living things to the fullest without compromising my own beings health. So draw the line wherever you want, its fine with me. I do not feel sorry for the fish as it is now. But a big "thank you" for something giving his life to sustain yours could be a way to start giving gratitude towards all living things.

Personally this is a ongoing journey. Perhaps this diet of mine is just a transition to veganism (probably not, but I said 2 years ago that vegetarians are nuts and that Iīll never quit eating meat), or perhaps Iīll be back eating meat again and then I can say that I tried it, didnīt work, but I was curious enough to try.

Another point here to make is that meat tends too ground oneself too much. A sometimes too much overseen fact, when the debates as in this case tends to focus on the wellbeing of the body, not the etheric/astralbody or soul or whatever you want to call it. A lighter diet is a good way to reach the higher spheres. Most shamans and magicians i know states this as an easier way.

An interesting fact is that there is many dark magicians and people I know of that are in draconian orders taht are strict vegetarians. And I know that they rever this diet as a way to keep spiritual power up.
So for the argument that the repīs would want a weak people from rejecting meat is in my eyes totally wrong. it is the very opposite.
They want people to be grounded (not only from meat ofcourse, you all know all the things they do to keep us sedated), so that they like Neo in matrix do not wake up and see what you did not too notice before.

You can ofcourse eat meat if you want to. As stated itīs all about perspective and indiviual paths. All iīm saying is that it works for me for the moment, thats all. Iīm glad I tried it to be able to really notice the difference it makes. Iīve had tons of cool things happening lately. Or is it hallucinations
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:12 PM   #11
Phtha
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

I don't understand though. There is nothing in animals that we can't get from fruits, veggies, grains, 'pure' milk, and so on. Or is there? I've not been able to find one thing, aside from protein lies.. I used to eat meat, just like I used to believe Bin Laden took down the towers. But then I learned truth, and that is simply our anatomy. We are not designed to eat meat. There is no denying this. It causes disease in so many ways.

There are to many factors when it comes to eating that I don't believe its possible to do this huge studies. Maybe those that are sick when becoming a veggie have toxic water, or maybe the air, or maybe the building the live in has air born abominations. MAybe they have emf poisoning, or to much pollution intake in the Cities, chemtrails. Maybe they do not exercise enough..So many factors. Our anatomy is key. That and not having to take life to eat.
Most flesh eaters don't think much about that though as the animals are tortured and killed elsewhere.

Last edited by Phtha; 05-25-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:15 PM   #12
Metaphor
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen View Post
Examples of metabolic typing, but first look out for disinfo angents.


Excerpt from: http://www.curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=500765&s=1#i1 The man who started the Metabolic Typing Diet was Dr. Kelley when he needed to cure his own pancreatic cancer, not Dr. Wolcott or any other person who infiltrated the Kelley program (sponsered by the pharmaceutical industry) ... In figuring out the metabolic nuances needed to treat and reverse his cancer, Kelley was able to come up with a protocol which enabled him to help many people cure their cancers too. The cancer/pharmaceutical industry caught wind of what he did and gave him a really rough ride(tehre's a suprise). In the end they couldn't stop him so what they did is a warning to everyone in this forum. They had several people infiltrate his organization, then start up their "new improved" systems which according to Kelley, were designed not to work. It was a way to use marketing and disinformation to cloud Kelley's successful work and results with a new improved method that WILL NOT WORK. Classic disinfo propoganda measures. According to Kelley, William Wolcott is the main disinfo person who is now author of the best selling Metabolic Typing Diet

http://www.drkelley.info/articles/ar...artid=320Recap of The Twelve Types of Metabolism ~

~ Vegetarian Types ~
Type 1 - Needs no animal products at all. Can live entirely on fruits, vegetables and nuts.
Type 4 - Needs some animal products such as fish, chicken, eggs and unpasteurized goat cheese several times a week.
Type 6 - Combination of Types 1 and 4, but has horrible metabolism. Needs more food to make up for lack of absorption.
Type 11 - Most efficient sympathetic metabolizers. They need little food and prefer fruits and sugars to other foods.
~ Carnivore Types ~
Type 2 - Needs meat up to 14 ounces a day, preferably beef. Has little or no energy unless they eat meat.
Type 5 - Needs meat to feel good, but less often, perhaps 2-3 times a week.
Type 7 - A cross between Types 2 and 5 but with a horrible metabolism.
Type 12 - A supper efficient metabolizer Happy, cheery.
~ Balanced Types ~
Type 3 - Has horrible metabolism. Only absorbs 15% of what he or she eats. Feels so bad that they often wish they were dead.
Type 8 - Normal balanced metabolism. - Can eat and benefit from all foods, provided they are wholesome.
Type 9 - Needs 70% cooked food in diet. Hates raw food.
Type 10 - Super-efficient metabolizer. Needs very little food and sleep, yet feels terrific
~ Metabolic Type Spiral ~
This is what we call the Metabolic Type Spiral. It shows all 12 metabolic types and their relationship to each other, their sympathetic or their parasympathetic dominance and their metabolic efficiency.


For more detail on each type/Keep reading: http://www.drkelley.info/articles/archive.php?artid=320 Copied here is one example.



~ MetabolicType Nine ~
Type Nine metabolizers are in the balanced class - their sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems work equally well. This type is the most difficult to understand. If these people had a choice, they would always prefer cooked food. Working with these people through the years has led to the conclusion that they truly cannot do well on raw foods. Evidently they have mutated to the point that they need cooked food to be satisfied. They generally require 70% cooked food and can comfortably handle 30% raw food. Type nine metabolizers do best when they can eat at Smorgasbord three or four times a week. In other words, if they eat a little of everything, they function best.
Thanks, interesting stuff. Iīll look into it. I guess iīm a type 4 with a splash of 9 then?
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Old 05-25-2009, 11:51 PM   #13
Karen
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phtha View Post
I don't understand though. There is nothing in animals that we can't get from fruits, veggies, grains, 'pure' milk, and so on. Or is there? I've not been able to find one thing, aside from protein lies.. I used to eat meat, just like I used to believe Bin Laden took down the towers. But then I learned truth, and that is simply our anatomy. We are not designed to eat meat. There is no denying this. It causes disease in so many ways.

There are to many factors when it comes to eating that I don't believe its possible to do this huge studies. Maybe those that are sick when becoming a veggie have toxic water, or maybe the air, or maybe the building the live in has air born abominations. So many factors. Our anatomy is key. That and not having to take life to eat.
Most flesh eaters don't think much about that though as the animals are tortured and killed elsewhere.
I started the research because I didn't like the thought of having to kill animals to live healthy. I'm 57 yrs old and its been a long journey through the vegetarian thing and out again. Unfortunately, that's the way the earth is set up. Life lives off other life. I think that's just gross, but came to understand attitude, respect and being thankful are a factor. Read "The Secret Life of Plants". They have feelings and consciousness. I advocate for cleaning up the way we raise our food animals. Is a 1,000 acre sea of celery in nice straight rows natural? How many ground animals are chopped up by the plows? How many worms and bugs killed by the chemicals?

Yes, I can give you some information on what's missing. I can show you at least 10 cultures where meat, or milk or fish are a very important part of the diet and the people are/were (before they were encroached up by "foods of commerce) almost 100% healthy, lived to an old age, had almost zero cavities, mental illness and crime. They have/had no need for police - until they started eating the canned, refined, and devitalized foods of commerce.Then they got everything physical, mental and social that Americans are suffering from today, including crime. If they went back to their traditional diet they got well. When a culture lived off the land and the nearby waters they had perfect health. The more vegetarian the culture, the less healthy. Those in the African dessert, the Eskimos in the north, and the Swiss in the high alps had very little vegetation to consume, and were absolutely robust!

This is the work of Weston A Price, a dentist, who did a huge study in the 1930's traveling to places people were said to be vibrantly healthy, because he was wondering why all of sudden people had so many dental cavities and so many children with crooked and crowed teeth. His entire book documenting that with pictures in online for free. I just have to go find it.

Animal fat is highly prized by these traditional people and when asked why they said, because it makes perfect babies. The young married couples were given all the best fats for a full year before they conceived and while the mother was breast-feeding. The fat-soluble vitamins such as A are not available in high enough amounts in vegetation. Beta-carotene, such as in carrots is not vitamin A and it takes 5 beta-carotenes to make the conversion.

People on vegan diets are usually recommended to take vit B12 supplements. That was the turning point for me. I wanted vegan to be the way for everyone. But I don't see any trees out there sprouting bottles of B12 and the B12 in spirulina etc. are analogues and not true vitamin B12 and compete with true B12.

You will find lots of answers here on the Price website and maybe later I can look up some more info.
http://www.westonaprice.org/tour/vegtourindex.html
Website Tour for Vegetarians

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Vegetarians, especially vegans, are often dismayed at The Weston A. Price Foundation's emphasis on animal foods as essential for health. This website tour will give you an overview of our position in light of the scientific evidence that humans need animal foods, particularly animal fats, for optimum health.

The Foundation supports raising animals on pasture as much of the year as possible, and opposes confinement operations, feedlots, debeaking, growth hormones, routine antibiotics in feed, inappropriate feed such as soy, and other practices that harm animals' health and well-being, harm the environment, and result in animal foods that are not optimally nutritious for humans.

The Foundation believes that strict vegetarianism (veganism) is detrimental to human health. Vegetarianism that includes eggs and raw (unpasteurized) dairy products, organic vegetables and fruits, properly prepared whole grains, legumes, and nuts, and excludes unfermented soy products and processed foods, can be a healthy option for some people. However, some people have difficulty assimilating vitamins, minerals, protein, and other factors from plant foods. These individuals may need a higher proportion of nutrients from animal foods to achieve optimum health.
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:03 AM   #14
Anchor
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Vegetarians who bitch and preach about meat eaters need to learn about the law of allowance and freewill.

Any divisive issue is a chink in the armour for the dark forces to strike through. Its is no surprise they would try it.

A.. (vegetarian by the way)
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:13 AM   #15
Metaphor
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Vegetarians who bitch and preach about meat eaters need to learn about the law of allowance and freewill.

Any divisive issue is a chink in the armour for the dark forces to strike through. Its is no surprise they would try it.

A.. (vegetarian by the way)
We better stay polite!
Vegetarian/ meatetingthreads usally go totally berzerk.







cheers
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:13 AM   #16
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Thank you for all your information here Karen. The whole subject of diet, vegetarianism and meat eating has interested me for a long time and I have had difficulty with what is the ideal diet. At 59 I have found that the basic diet that Weston Price discovered as the healthiest, suits me very well. As I said before in another post, it is an individual choice and bodies differ widely in nutritional requirements.

A diet is only as good as the attitude of the person using any diet. To me a died-in-the-wool vegetarian who has turned vegetarianism into a sort of 'religion' that everyone should be following with all the accompaning dogma, is not particularly healthy. Live and let live I say. Peoples freedom of choice to me is sacresanct. Wisdom through knowledge is the key.

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Old 05-26-2009, 12:31 AM   #17
Karen
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

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We better stay polite!
Vegetarian/ meatetingthreads usally go totally berzerk.
I've seen a lot of compliments about this forum being a nice place now with high quality thoughtful people.

I thought a good test of that would be to see how this thread goes, if people can give information for both sides of the argument without going berzerko.
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Old 05-26-2009, 01:12 AM   #18
Carmen
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Yes I agree Karen. Although what I have written may not indicate a willingness to look into both sides of this discussion I have read widely and agree with most of what is written about the merits of eating vegetarian. I did not feel as though the knowledge was complete and I am really enjoying hearing other opinions and experiences. I often comment to my friends that if people saw or had to kill the animals that they eat, they would most likely be vegetarian!! I live on a farm and I am closer to the experiences of killing animals for food. This does not make it any easier, but I do not consider myself to be a bad person for eating meat.

I love the idea of establishing a 'Forest Garden" and many of the trees I plant on my land are food producing. Permaculture systems are to me the future ideal for living. I think in time people will live close to nature and animals will not be eaten, but this transition will be a gradual one.

Cheers

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Old 05-26-2009, 02:41 AM   #19
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

I've been a vegetarian(not vegan) my entire life...but I'm not a health nut...and I don't impose this choice on other people. It's more of a preference than a health issue. I simply prefer to not eat anything with a face. I didn't know that plants suffer! I'll remember that the next time I'm munching on some celery! Even without humans eating meat...nature is very harsh and cruel.

The reports of reptilians eating human children(terrorized, killed, and eaten) are highly upsetting to me. I really, really hope that this is just more bs...but I am sensing that there is some truth to it...which includes the reports of human sacrifices in satanic rituals. The eucharistic liturgy involves eating flesh and drinking blood...symbolically...unless you believe in transubstantiation. But there is no body of evidence to substantiate transubstantiation!

Not smoking...and getting lots of excercise and rest...seems to be much more important than diet. That's just my hunch and bias. There are so many theories, gurus, books, diets, plans, etc, etc...about health...which contradict each other. It's a real zoo.

Just to make everyone mad at me...I hearby declare that Meat is Murder!

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Old 05-26-2009, 05:34 AM   #20
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Just to make everyone mad at me...I hearby declare that Meat is Murder!

Indeed, so is ripping vegetables out of the ground to eat.

I eat everything and thank everything I eat. I do wish that nothing had to be killed just for our own survival and one day that may be so.

As far as the debate goes about what is good for you well I do believe that native cultures had a much better idea about what is good and funny enough none ( to my knowledge ) were vegetarian or vegan.

Also funny that some veg/vegan people have cravings for meat or animal produce sometimes. When I crave anything that to me is my body telling me I need something from what ever it is I'm craving.
I would proabably pay more attention to veg/vegans if they were all perfectly healthy people but for the majority I have met, they are either overweight or have some other health issues....hmmm

The only thing that bothers me with SOME veg/vegans is their almost religious stance on it and the irony is that alot of these people proclaim to be sipiritually evolving while spitting venom at meat eaters at the same time.
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:43 AM   #21
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As far as the debate goes about what is good for you well I do believe that native cultures had a much better idea about what is good and funny enough none ( to my knowledge ) were vegetarian or vegan.
Well there were also cannibalism, ritual sacrifice and other barbaric behaviour. I think the discussion should be around us human beings NOW, not in the past. Iīm still not saying going vegetarian is the way for everyone BTW

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Also funny that some veg/vegan people have cravings for meat or animal produce sometimes. When I crave anything that to me is my body telling me I need something from what ever it is I'm craving.
I sometimes crave for alcohol also, that does not equal that my body really needs it. Itīs all about to what extent you wanna satisfy the reptilian brain. Donīt let the body tell to you what to do. As long as the real and inner you is at the steering wheel, itīs totally ok.

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I would proabably pay more attention to veg/vegans if they were all perfectly healthy people but for the majority I have met, they are either overweight or have some other health issues....hmmm
Eeeerrr... have you seen some of the people that comes out of McdDonalds? I thought you were refering to them. But, yes the are non meat eaters (mostly young people without knowledge of how to preparing food) in terrible condition aswell.

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The only thing that bothers me with SOME veg/vegans is their almost religious stance on it and the irony is that alot of these people proclaim to be sipiritually evolving while spitting venom at meat eaters at the same time.
Yes that is a real problem, and gives the whole thing a bad reputation. Especially the vegan milita telling that they have found "the way". I consider veganism as a kind of over-reaction (almost like a stress reaction) against our terrible way of treating animals. Veganism wouldnīt have developed without it.
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Old 05-26-2009, 07:54 AM   #22
Carmen
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Phtha is banned!!!? What's going on here? Why?
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:02 AM   #23
Metaphor
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Phtha is banned!!!? What's going on here? Why?
What??? I thought we were having a civilised discussion?
I cannot see any reason for that in any of the posts above. Is there something going on in another thread we have missed? Or what? Could someone please clarify ASAP?
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:18 AM   #24
Peter
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

Thank you Karen for yet another exciting thread.
When I first started Blacksmithing I had been a veggie/vegan for 7 years but my body (or my inner voice) kept telling me I needed more protein in the form of flesh to cope with the physical workload.
I remember vividly sitting in front of a smoked mackeral fillet for more than a hour. It was quite funny now looking back I just couldn't bring myself to eat it. I eventually did as the passion for my work was stronger than my guilt of eating flesh again.
That was nearly 18 years ago and ever since I've been eating flesh about once or twice a week that depends as I try to only eat organic food, which really limits ones choice through availability and price.
I used to kill our own chickens as I believe that all who eat flesh should at least once in their life kill an animal themselves and then eat it. I no longer eat chicken I didn't like killing them or raising them. I lived with them for long enough to understand that chickens are quite nasty vindictive creatures who would eat their own mother, they're dirty things as well lots of parasites, yuk.
I've been in an industrial chicken shed with 20.000 screeching, suffering birds and I know what they eat and most of their food is medication so I don't eat any chicken anymore. Like the Hunza people I eat goat meat and cheese now and then along with a large variety of fruit and veg living and cooked
so I might make it to one hundred who knows. As Paracelsus said "Your food is your medicine".
On our property my wife Rosie and I keep pigs to work the land (we're planting a forest garden) and goats to give us milk and cheese. We've killed one of our piglets for its meat and that was a very taumatic experience for me if not for the pig he was eating when he was shot in the head so he died happy. Our 3 nanny goats are pregnant at this moment and we haven't decided what to do with the little ones.
Its a different reality when you raise your own meat.

Thanks for reading my bit.
Glad to be here, Peter.
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:24 AM   #25
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Default Re: Is Vegen/Vegetarian an Illuminati/Reptilian Deception?

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I'm just curious, What makes the babies of lambs and cows any more important than the babies of crabs and fish, or ants for that matter?? Why can you eat one living creature but not the other??

.
You really don't see the difference? lambs, cows, pigs are mammals, like us. They have emotions and feelings. and that's a fact. i do not know however about ants or crabs. do they have feelings?
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