The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay

Artycarl · 11-20-2008, 12:50 PM

I have given this a lot of thought recently. Originally I voted not to have subscriptions as I was worried that some people would not be able to fully contribute here just because of financial restrictions and that would have been terribly sad. But in all honesty there is not a great deal of choice. If you make it donation only...even with the best will in the world most people wont bother to donate...that is just the nature of it. So subscription it is.

I am happy to subscribe but the two tier system again makes me concerned that some members will be made to feel like second class citizens.

I suspect our numbers will dwindle somewhat and unfortunately that is inevitable but if it allows Bill and Kerry to continue doing what they do then I think it is a very small financial sacrifice.

capreycorn · 11-20-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artycarl

I have given this a lot of thought recently. Originally I voted not to have subscriptions as I was worried that some people would not be able to fully contribute here just because of financial restrictions and that would have been terribly sad. But in all honesty there is not a great deal of choice. If you make it donation only...even with the best will in the world most people wont bother to donate...that is just the nature of it. So subscription it is.

I am happy to subscribe but the two tier system again makes me concerned that some members will be made to feel like second class citizens.

I suspect our numbers will dwindle somewhat and unfortunately that is inevitable but if it allows Bill and Kerry to continue doing what they do then I think it is a very small financial sacrifice.

all right, but then make it like a parking-meter..where you put 50cent and can park your car for a certain time..if you throw in more, you can have more "time"...if payment ceases, the accounts shouldn`t be cancelled, just put to a "coma" until some more cash flows...(maybe)

i just really hate it when i have to cancel a subscription, so that i won`t get charged any more..(my wife did that with the wrong company and it was a real pain to get out of it)... that`s why I don`t subscribe..

ps: there should be 2 possibilities...the parking meter type (for those with little cash flow) and permanent membership (until you quit..)
pps: there should be a 3rd possibility like a "forum-time-counter" (like credit)...post now pay later...and add to it a system, where good posts can be awarded by the richer with penny donations... does it make sense? (of course some other member would have to vouch for the one going for option 3 post now pay later...

StClair · 11-20-2008, 02:16 PM

Hi Kerry
we do that ok
done deal...

*

Dear Friends

my donation leaves Europe to reach Kerry next week

meanwhile here is the spiritual conspiracy at work
if you like you can become a part of it also

** http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=7888 **

Peace
M StC.

franciejones · 11-20-2008, 02:34 PM

I am following Michael's example and donating today (as soon as the donate button works---I pm-ed Colin about it)

I must admit that I have been feeling guilty for not sending money to Camelot prior to this...I have visited PC for about two years and a donation is LONG overdue for me...

Please accept my apology Bill and Kerry....I was being selfish (very true). I love you both and dearly appreciate the work you are doing. My thoughts are with you always.

Francie

franciejones · 11-20-2008, 02:38 PM

Side note:

I dontated thru Camelot site instead as that button works just fine

StClair · 11-20-2008, 10:25 PM

hi

Quote:

Originally Posted by franciejones

Side note:

I donated thru Camelot site instead as that button works just fine

Thanks so much Ms Jones. Very kind of you to do this

I am sure we can get all this wrapped up beneficially today...
All it takes is a few more Ms Jones' and a few St.Clairs
well yeah there arent too many Francie Jones'

hey, Ms Jones
Care to join here? http://stclairzone.ning.com - It is free !
Zynox and I accept the good eggs of the new paradigm.

We have a few other good Avalon eggs at my zone.

RSF · 11-20-2008, 03:00 PM

Hi Kerry,
Thanks for posting the Donation address. By Monday I'll have sent a contribution.
---
Hi Members, I was absolutely blown away when PC interviewed and published:
http://www.projectcamelot.org/george...sept_2008.html
Sept 2/08.

At the time I didn't believe -- now I do !!

RSF

slywinkl · 11-20-2008, 03:33 PM

ok, i came bck against my word here to check upp the "news" on this "free open mind o ppl" site.

only to discover u are divide and conqering.

i am laughing my ass off in the sight of all this.

here u all are speaking of freedom, opening minds, helping EVERYONE, getting the truth out.. buuuuut you haf to pay for it.

sound like the this timeframes earth goverment and elites speaking.

and yes i am talkin of u bill and kerry

you haf countless of times talked of justice and gettin the fact and truth out to everyone at any costs, and standing upp against the system that are in failure today.

becouse in the face of truth it is not ONLY you 2, we are all one, remmember that statement?

and yet here you are dividing and conquring, throwing away those who cant give a fictinonal number, a fantasy paper, a metal round thing witch is made upp and created from nothing of our world.

when did this all change? what changed? did we change? did we get to free to disscuss our problems with the world?

or was it the lust for getting onward get passed by the fake worlds one true grip of uss take over? money, cash, credits, numbers that have gotten a "value"?

one thing is pretty obvius, this is becomming more and more the anticrist u all have preached aboot for years, here u are speaking of advertising, donations, getting comanyes in to sponsor you, and making ppl pay to open their mouth.

try putting this to comparement to the goverment u all "oppose" soooo much. u see the ressemblence?

here u are creating a base of fear at its rawest and brutal ever

you have started a place with ppl could come away from fear, and disscuss their inner most secrest that most dont have anyone around in their real life to talk with.
and created a place were ppl could ask questions and even anwser questions from own experience. dont matter if it was a 14 year old or a 50 year old HU-Man who did it, it sparked, it resonated and out came a disscussion many have red and mby even learned from.

but this is at an end, just becouse of a fantasy paper, fantasy number, a created debt from nothingness. the verry thing that many are batteling to get a free world were we can actually share and live in prosperity and co-existance. and above all do what we are here to doo. take care of this planet we live on.

you all was so amazed that it boomed so big in no time

and u speak like priests of new worlds and what we should belive and look into

then you start of limeting the "free word" down by imposing rules
(sounds familiar?)

and now your are cutting down all the freedom by divide and conquer.

this is relly ridiculus. if you cant continue of this YOU bill and kerry have started, then end it, dont go on pushing on free ppl to pay for the truth.

if you relly are so noble and sincere as u have portrayed yourself as this is your path. you started this, you took the choice, you made all of this. u reached into the vastness and created this. then why do you all of a sudden need all unknown creatures to give you something the elites and goverment created to continue?

this is ridiculus, you are becomming the verry thing you all "hate" so much, but cant "live" without.

RSF · 11-20-2008, 03:48 PM

slywinkl, something's a wee-bit out of whack with your post. Do you have spell and grammar checking ? Sorry, it's just that it really is that bad before I get into your back-ass message content.. garbage.

I came across Project Camelot about four months ago and was startled by the effort and effect of Bill & Kerry's work.
Frankly, when I read some of the nonsense posted by some members, such as the above, it actually makes me chuckle as to how these dudes found there way here?

RSF

slywinkl · 11-20-2008, 03:54 PM

ive never followed school, or the ways of this "world".

i follow the earth and me.

and as for the ppl posting "garbage", who are you to say what is garbage? im pretty sure many haf told you that stuff u speak of is ridiculus, but u belive in it. even if you are are 100% sure that u speak the truth, mby some dont belive even 1% of your word, couse they haf to find their own truth, tis is how we are

RSF · 11-20-2008, 04:00 PM

Sorry. Your right.
RSF

slywinkl · 11-20-2008, 04:04 PM

no im not right, it is right for me, i dont impose my belif, i merly brings it to the light. then anyone can read and make their own belif if they wish, if not they wont read it and be on their merry way.

GregorArturo · 11-20-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSF

Sorry. Your right.
RSF

I admire you for this. Namaste.

GregorArturo · 11-20-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSF

slywinkl, something's a wee-bit out of whack with your post. Do you have spell and grammar checking ? Sorry, it's just that it really is that bad before I get into your back-ass message content.. garbage.

RSF, I find that statement to be rather negative and uncalled for. Think of this Chinese proverb:

“Those who do not read are no better off than those who cannot.”

I'm sorry, that man speaks truth, and I am sorry if it appears only transparent and flawed to you. He speaks with passion. You speak with ignorance. Think of what I am saying.

I have been familiar with PC for almost a year now, and they have done tremendously wonderful work. Bill & Kerry are very good-hearted people I feel. However, that does not mean you blindly follow them. Think for yourself, not with the majority.

RSF · 11-20-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

RSF, I find that statement to be rather negative and uncalled for. Think of this Chinese proverb:

“Those who do not read are no better off than those who cannot.”

I'm sorry, that man speaks truth, and I am sorry if it appears only transparent and flawed to you. He speaks with passion. You speak with ignorance. Think of what I am saying.

I have been familiar with PC for almost a year now, and they have done tremendously wonderful work. Bill & Kerry are very good-hearted people I feel. However, that does not mean you blindly follow them. Think for yourself, not with the majority.

---

Quite right too. My anger got ahead of my senses, as yours.
RSF

RubyTuesday · 11-20-2008, 05:41 PM

I'm an admin on a smaller forum. We charge $5/year for operating costs and use any leftover to help forum members who go through challenging times (after a vote by the forum members). We've helped buy groceries, pay mortgages, pay medical expenses, send flowers, etc. On that forum, that people pay for, ALL are considered "owners". Admins just do the techie stuff.

Paying implies a sense of entitlement and freedom to say what's on your mind. After reading the numerous threads here, I'm going to propose to the other admins of our board that we set up a widget and do donations instead because times are getting hard for so many financially and we won't have to keep track of who has paid, who hasn't, send out warnings to pay, or ban people from posting.

What bothers me about paying to be here is what this forum will lose. There are MANY people here who don't post a lot but will, from time to time, post a fantastic nugget of info. Many who mostly read won't pay. In return, we lose the information they *could* have provided. It's a very limiting model imo. We won't know what we're missing.

What's wrong with putting up a widget? Sure, people could donate now but why would they if it's still being debated? Some of us are waiting for a decision to be made before we decide to donate. I personally don't want to donate and then find out that people are being shut out for not paying. I wouldn't feel good about my money going towards that.

It's easy peasie to set up a widget. Put the dollar amount and the money will come. If not enough is raised then suspend all posting for a day or two with a message on the front page explaining that operating costs must be met first. I don't think it would come to that, though. I think the money would be raised pretty fast and nobody would feel that they have to beg for someone else to pay their way and others will feel good that they have been able to contribute financially. Win win.

Looking at all the controversy surrounding this issue it seems to me that it's pretty obvious that a paid subscription doesn't "feel good" to many. On a spiritual level I understand that very well. Many of us listen carefully to how we "feel" and avoid that which makes us feel uneasy or just doesn't feel right. This controversy doesn't feel right.

I would also like to say I was a member of another board (a fertility forum) that instituted a paying system- then the mods got heavy handed and were deleting people's posts, even suspected of reading private messages which resulted in banning paying members. Lawyers got involved and many people were refunded their membership dues. Ugly situation for all involved and that site ruined their reputation.

enacae · 11-20-2008, 05:47 PM

Please keep the forum free to post. I love it here.

ADAM KADMON · 11-20-2008, 05:56 PM

After some reflection ~ I believe there is certainly something deeper going on within the psyche of both Bill and Kerry.

Show them love and respect and appreciation for how they've contributed to you. Pray that they will "make it through" this time of tribulation which they face. It is obviously more then monetary -- and the monetary crisis we all face is just a symptom of something deeper.

Despite the fact their decisions are not fully supported by all members here, this is common response "of the people" when their supposed leaders make any big decision. Some praise, some condemn. And politically, leaders will traditionally align themselves with the greater majority...

Obviously that is not the case in this setting, at this time and place. For whatever reason, have faith that it's all perfect in the greater scheme of things -- even if the reasoning of how it's so eludes us now.

If you choose not to offer financial support, give them both your blessing. They too are walking the path.

Blessing Bill & Kerry, my peace is said.

Adam K.

Pierrot · 11-20-2008, 05:58 PM

Hi All,

some months ago a friend told me about this forum, I had a look, found all the points of view interesting, then I subscribed, posted a bit, and I like it here. Now I discover some changes are coming next week, I didn't decide yet if I'll stay around or not - and talking about it with my friend it appears I maybe don't understand the situation here, so she suggested I post my point of view here. Here it goes -

First - a forum has it's owners and moderators, and those subscribing and posting are invited here sort of, that makes a community, friends, etc and the owners have the rights and privileges to decide whatever they want about the place. When I'm invited to a party I usually, lol, don't try to move the furniture around or if the owners ask for some pparticipation to cover the costs I don't discuss it. One can come in or leave.

Second - I love internet forums and participate on some of them for about 10 years. Those with free access mainly, because even if the fee is very low, multiply that by 20 or 50 forums.... my budget wouldn't allow that. AN d I don't limit myself to one forum.... otherwise which one to chose? So my choice is to participate to free of charge forums mainly - would I pay to write on a forum I just discovered on the net? not sure - it takes some weeks to get the atmosphere of a place, find how many people there are one can share with. Then decide - so I wonder when the Project Avalon will become a paying forum if that will not cut out some new arrivals and thus lose potential?

I have seen that happen on some sites - some regular posters go away, the level drops down, and the site becomes a desert. It's not a question that the owners have to offer a free service, no, as I wrote above. In fact just some time ago on another forum the administrator opened up a thread saying she had trouble to finance the forum with personal money, suggesting a monthly fee, she put there a paypal button, and in about a month there was more than a 1000$ raised by a community 1/10th as big as the Project Avalon one. So the question might be about "how to get the money?" rather than find a solution that might be a problem.

Further considerations - I confess I didn't have yet the time to read about Project Camelot...

I'm familiar with some data for years, and am interested in, but too busy to study it now. And reading the threads here I understand or misunderstand that the Project Avalon Forums should finance that activity (?) - which sounds a bit weird to me and looks like a mis-managed marketing attempt, I might be wrong but that's how it looks from the outside.

Normally every section of an organisation should finance itself. Or exchange one with the other that brings the money in. If project Camelot has books or DVDs or t-shirts, those should bring in enough money to finance further projects, further interviews, travels, books. I understand the wish to let that work free so it's widely knowns, though. But maybe the "how" again is mis-managed?

Internet marketing is a very interesting tool. A lot to learn there - for instance I know one guy in "relationship" business, who sells his DVDs, CDs. His products are widely known, in his area, he has a terrific mailing list that grew above 1.000.000 subscribers. He sends regularly summaries of what's in the DVDs, courses etc, carefully written so the data are widely available, but leaves enough mystery (yeah, it's a marketing glue, lol) so people buy more and ask for more. And the forums pertaining to the subject are free of charge.

The communication lines of the community are free and for free. And that makes the subject grow and become widely known.

Well - that's just some thoughts, maybe useless maybe not. I feel the freedom to communicate should be protected. And on the other hand guys who do the work, like the owners of this site, should earn plenty of money too. I don't think otherwise - I'm a management consultant too ;-)

And to put it really simple - from my maybe uninformed as yet point of view it looks like this: let's say there is a car company that produces the best and environment friendly cars. It wants its products widely known and used. It organises also free seminars and parties where customers and potential customers meet and exchange points of view (some of which even to build better cars). They all have a great time. And now the company decides to charge the parties and seminars to finance the costs of the whole production of all cars... well, probably I got something wrong ;-)

But then I only write because I feel it's a pity when I hear people (want to) leave such a great place of communication like this.

Friendly
Pierrot

Myplanet2 · 11-20-2008, 06:38 PM

Thanks for writing Pierrot.

The actual situation becomes somewhat obscured by people posting the contents of their speculations and misunderstandings, which grows from there.

for someone to read posts about this, it's not easy to get an accurate picture of the situation.

As I understand it, the situation goes like this:

Bill and Kerry found they had a common purpose and interest in discovering the truth in the area covered by Camalot, and to create a safe space for whistleblowers to come forward with what they know about it. And to make that information freely available to all people.

They both had or came into a bit of money, and used that to finance the project.

Fast forward to now.

they have both used up all of their personal money, and the project has come as far as it has. which is much farther than things were before Bill and Kerry started their project.

Their interviews with St Clair, Green, and Wilcock benefited Camelot, and St Clair, Green and Wilcock, as well as the rest of us who were able to follow along through their generosity.

As Bill and Kerry saw correspondence from more and more people displaying interest and support for their efforts, they decided to do the Avalon forum as a meeting/networking place for Ground crew as described in George Greens Channeled books.

Obviously, it took off harder than anyone expected it would. It's very popular.

But it was always the intention for it to be subscription based. It said so from day one. Right up front. The reason was for funding of the ongoing work. It was never for marketing considerations, as there has never been anything to sell.

There might be now, but the Camelot data has always been free, and will remain so, as per Bill and Kerry's statements.

Interviewing whistleblowers and truth tellers, is their job. It's just never paid them, aside from any generously given donations.

Now it's simply time to start paying them for their work, as otherwise, the work can't go on.

I personally think subscription is the way to go, for many reasons.

If I was them, I'd not like to have to depend on whether any felt like paying me something this month so I can pay my rent, or stock my refridgerator. Subscriptions will be predictable. Donations are not. What if your employer, or clients got to pay you "at their discretion"? How would that make you feel?

Me too.

There is going to be a great deal of added value to being a member here. It's never just been a place where people can go to yak. You can do that anywhere.

This place has always been purposefully created as a meeting/networking place for ground crew. Many hundreds who never understood that, or simply didn't care, have turned the forum into a majorly "off topic" forum. Much is on topic, but much is off topic.

Subscription will have the added bonus of weeding out lots of those who just insist on selfishly going on about anything they want to go on about, instead of making any effort to deal with the subject matters of Ground Crew.

This is all obviously my opinions based on my observations and discussions. But I believe this to give some context to some of what can be read in all these posts and threads about how people think Avalon can better serve THEM.

I think it's an honour to be able to be in service to Avalon, and be a part of it's service to Mankind.

franciejones · 11-20-2008, 06:50 PM

MyPlanet2---well said, well put and much needed. Thank you for taking that time and effort.

MaskMarvl · 11-20-2008, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

If I was them, I'd not like to have to depend on whether any felt like paying me something this month so I can pay my rent, or stock my refridgerator. Subscriptions will be predictable. Donations are not. What if your employer, or clients got to pay you "at their discretion"? How would that make you feel?

Well... for starters "we" (the members of the Avalon Forum), are NOT their employers so I don't think that's a good example.

If they implemented a Donation scheme, and the "proceeds" vary, then they would just adjust their schedules and travel "when the money permits".

This has nothing to do with paying their rent bill or re-stocking their refrigerators...

franciejones · 11-20-2008, 06:55 PM

MaskMarvl...you misunderstood...please re-read. If still unclear, I would strongly suggest reading all of the information on Project Camelot and the "youngest threads" here from Bill and Kerry. MyPlanet2 has the right gist of it.

Myplanet2 · 11-20-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskMarvl

Well... for starters "we" (the members of the Avalon Forum), are NOT their employers so I don't think that's a good example.

If they implemented a Donation scheme, and the "proceeds" vary, then they would just adjust their schedules and travel "when the money permits".

This has nothing to do with paying their rent bill or re-stocking their refrigerators...

Well, since it's in their court of Camelot, they get to call the game. They've left lots of ways to play open, but the bottom line is, they have to have the money to continue their work. And they deserve to have it be securely so.

If one important interview is missed because of no travel funds, then that's too high a price to pay, so that the "service to self" majority can continue consuming on somebody elses nickel.

those who can't afford it are one thing. Those who object on conscientious or philosophical grounds, that's another. But those who just want to behave like squirrels, grabbing anything that interests them that comes within reach, is too much.

They can get back on the horse, or donkey they rode in on, to keep the metaphor going.

slywinkl · 11-20-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myplanet2

Thanks for writing Pierrot.

The actual situation becomes somewhat obscured by people posting the contents of their speculations and misunderstandings, which grows from there.

for someone to read posts about this, it's not easy to get an accurate picture of the situation.

As I understand it, the situation goes like this:

Bill and Kerry found they had a common purpose and interest in discovering the truth in the area covered by Camalot, and to create a safe space for whistleblowers to come forward with what they know about it. And to make that information freely available to all people.

They both had or came into a bit of money, and used that to finance the project.

Fast forward to now.

they have both used up all of their personal money, and the project has come as far as it has. which is much farther than things were before Bill and Kerry started their project.

Their interviews with St Clair, Green, and Wilcock benefited Camelot, and St Clair, Green and Wilcock, as well as the rest of us who were able to follow along through their generosity.

As Bill and Kerry saw correspondence from more and more people displaying interest and support for their efforts, they decided to do the Avalon forum as a meeting/networking place for Ground crew as described in George Greens Channeled books.

Obviously, it took off harder than anyone expected it would. It's very popular.

But it was always the intention for it to be subscription based. It said so from day one. Right up front. The reason was for funding of the ongoing work. It was never for marketing considerations, as there has never been anything to sell.

There might be now, but the Camelot data has always been free, and will remain so, as per Bill and Kerry's statements.

Interviewing whistleblowers and truth tellers, is their job. It's just never paid them, aside from any generously given donations.

Now it's simply time to start paying them for their work, as otherwise, the work can't go on.

I personally think subscription is the way to go, for many reasons.

If I was them, I'd not like to have to depend on whether any felt like paying me something this month so I can pay my rent, or stock my refridgerator. Subscriptions will be predictable. Donations are not. What if your employer, or clients got to pay you "at their discretion"? How would that make you feel?

Me too.

There is going to be a great deal of added value to being a member here. It's never just been a place where people can go to yak. You can do that anywhere.

This place has always been purposefully created as a meeting/networking place for ground crew. Many hundreds who never understood that, or simply didn't care, have turned the forum into a majorly "off topic" forum. Much is on topic, but much is off topic.

Subscription will have the added bonus of weeding out lots of those who just insist on selfishly going on about anything they want to go on about, instead of making any effort to deal with the subject matters of Ground Crew.

This is all obviously my opinions based on my observations and discussions. But I believe this to give some context to some of what can be read in all these posts and threads about how people think Avalon can better serve THEM.

I think it's an honour to be able to be in service to Avalon, and be a part of it's service to Mankind.

am i relly reading this right? this is still divide and conquer, you are talkin o weeding out the ground crew? i was under the belif we all was equall? so ur better than the rest and so is bill and kerry couse they stand forth in their own way?

off topic? who are anyone to say whats off topic for the ground crew?(yes i say tis often)

as i haf said before, we haf to pay to talk? so by that logic we gotta pay to go to work? since we tend to talk to other ppl when we work..

11-20-2008, 12:50 PM	#1
Artycarl Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 40	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I have given this a lot of thought recently. Originally I voted not to have subscriptions as I was worried that some people would not be able to fully contribute here just because of financial restrictions and that would have been terribly sad. But in all honesty there is not a great deal of choice. If you make it donation only...even with the best will in the world most people wont bother to donate...that is just the nature of it. So subscription it is. I am happy to subscribe but the two tier system again makes me concerned that some members will be made to feel like second class citizens. I suspect our numbers will dwindle somewhat and unfortunately that is inevitable but if it allows Bill and Kerry to continue doing what they do then I think it is a very small financial sacrifice.

11-20-2008, 02:16 PM	#3
StClair Project Camelot Witness Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 358	On its way to Kerry... Hi Kerry we do that ok done deal... * Dear Friends my donation leaves Europe to reach Kerry next week meanwhile here is the spiritual conspiracy at work if you like you can become a part of it also http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=7888 Peace M StC. __________________ http://LIGHT-SEEDS.com

11-20-2008, 02:34 PM	#4
franciejones Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 307	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I am following Michael's example and donating today (as soon as the donate button works---I pm-ed Colin about it) I must admit that I have been feeling guilty for not sending money to Camelot prior to this...I have visited PC for about two years and a donation is LONG overdue for me... Please accept my apology Bill and Kerry....I was being selfish (very true). I love you both and dearly appreciate the work you are doing. My thoughts are with you always. Francie

11-20-2008, 02:38 PM	#5
franciejones Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 307	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Side note: I dontated thru Camelot site instead as that button works just fine

11-20-2008, 03:00 PM	#7
RSF Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 226	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Hi Kerry, Thanks for posting the Donation address. By Monday I'll have sent a contribution. --- Hi Members, I was absolutely blown away when PC interviewed and published: http://www.projectcamelot.org/george...sept_2008.html Sept 2/08. At the time I didn't believe -- now I do !! RSF

11-20-2008, 03:33 PM	#8
slywinkl Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 35	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay ok, i came bck against my word here to check upp the "news" on this "free open mind o ppl" site. only to discover u are divide and conqering. i am laughing my ass off in the sight of all this. here u all are speaking of freedom, opening minds, helping EVERYONE, getting the truth out.. buuuuut you haf to pay for it. sound like the this timeframes earth goverment and elites speaking. and yes i am talkin of u bill and kerry you haf countless of times talked of justice and gettin the fact and truth out to everyone at any costs, and standing upp against the system that are in failure today. becouse in the face of truth it is not ONLY you 2, we are all one, remmember that statement? and yet here you are dividing and conquring, throwing away those who cant give a fictinonal number, a fantasy paper, a metal round thing witch is made upp and created from nothing of our world. when did this all change? what changed? did we change? did we get to free to disscuss our problems with the world? or was it the lust for getting onward get passed by the fake worlds one true grip of uss take over? money, cash, credits, numbers that have gotten a "value"? one thing is pretty obvius, this is becomming more and more the anticrist u all have preached aboot for years, here u are speaking of advertising, donations, getting comanyes in to sponsor you, and making ppl pay to open their mouth. try putting this to comparement to the goverment u all "oppose" soooo much. u see the ressemblence? here u are creating a base of fear at its rawest and brutal ever you have started a place with ppl could come away from fear, and disscuss their inner most secrest that most dont have anyone around in their real life to talk with. and created a place were ppl could ask questions and even anwser questions from own experience. dont matter if it was a 14 year old or a 50 year old HU-Man who did it, it sparked, it resonated and out came a disscussion many have red and mby even learned from. but this is at an end, just becouse of a fantasy paper, fantasy number, a created debt from nothingness. the verry thing that many are batteling to get a free world were we can actually share and live in prosperity and co-existance. and above all do what we are here to doo. take care of this planet we live on. you all was so amazed that it boomed so big in no time and u speak like priests of new worlds and what we should belive and look into then you start of limeting the "free word" down by imposing rules (sounds familiar?) and now your are cutting down all the freedom by divide and conquer. this is relly ridiculus. if you cant continue of this YOU bill and kerry have started, then end it, dont go on pushing on free ppl to pay for the truth. if you relly are so noble and sincere as u have portrayed yourself as this is your path. you started this, you took the choice, you made all of this. u reached into the vastness and created this. then why do you all of a sudden need all unknown creatures to give you something the elites and goverment created to continue? this is ridiculus, you are becomming the verry thing you all "hate" so much, but cant "live" without.

11-20-2008, 03:48 PM	#9
RSF Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 226	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay slywinkl, something's a wee-bit out of whack with your post. Do you have spell and grammar checking ? Sorry, it's just that it really is that bad before I get into your back-ass message content.. garbage. I came across Project Camelot about four months ago and was startled by the effort and effect of Bill & Kerry's work. Frankly, when I read some of the nonsense posted by some members, such as the above, it actually makes me chuckle as to how these dudes found there way here? RSF

11-20-2008, 03:54 PM	#10
slywinkl Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 35	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay ive never followed school, or the ways of this "world". i follow the earth and me. and as for the ppl posting "garbage", who are you to say what is garbage? im pretty sure many haf told you that stuff u speak of is ridiculus, but u belive in it. even if you are are 100% sure that u speak the truth, mby some dont belive even 1% of your word, couse they haf to find their own truth, tis is how we are

11-20-2008, 04:00 PM	#11
RSF Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 226	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Sorry. Your right. RSF

11-20-2008, 04:04 PM	#12
slywinkl Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 35	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay no im not right, it is right for me, i dont impose my belif, i merly brings it to the light. then anyone can read and make their own belif if they wish, if not they wont read it and be on their merry way.

11-20-2008, 05:41 PM	#16
RubyTuesday Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 224	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I'm an admin on a smaller forum. We charge $5/year for operating costs and use any leftover to help forum members who go through challenging times (after a vote by the forum members). We've helped buy groceries, pay mortgages, pay medical expenses, send flowers, etc. On that forum, that people pay for, ALL are considered "owners". Admins just do the techie stuff. Paying implies a sense of entitlement and freedom to say what's on your mind. After reading the numerous threads here, I'm going to propose to the other admins of our board that we set up a widget and do donations instead because times are getting hard for so many financially and we won't have to keep track of who has paid, who hasn't, send out warnings to pay, or ban people from posting. What bothers me about paying to be here is what this forum will lose. There are MANY people here who don't post a lot but will, from time to time, post a fantastic nugget of info. Many who mostly read won't pay. In return, we lose the information they could have provided. It's a very limiting model imo. We won't know what we're missing. What's wrong with putting up a widget? Sure, people could donate now but why would they if it's still being debated? Some of us are waiting for a decision to be made before we decide to donate. I personally don't want to donate and then find out that people are being shut out for not paying. I wouldn't feel good about my money going towards that. It's easy peasie to set up a widget. Put the dollar amount and the money will come. If not enough is raised then suspend all posting for a day or two with a message on the front page explaining that operating costs must be met first. I don't think it would come to that, though. I think the money would be raised pretty fast and nobody would feel that they have to beg for someone else to pay their way and others will feel good that they have been able to contribute financially. Win win. Looking at all the controversy surrounding this issue it seems to me that it's pretty obvious that a paid subscription doesn't "feel good" to many. On a spiritual level I understand that very well. Many of us listen carefully to how we "feel" and avoid that which makes us feel uneasy or just doesn't feel right. This controversy doesn't feel right. I would also like to say I was a member of another board (a fertility forum) that instituted a paying system- then the mods got heavy handed and were deleting people's posts, even suspected of reading private messages which resulted in banning paying members. Lawyers got involved and many people were refunded their membership dues. Ugly situation for all involved and that site ruined their reputation.

11-20-2008, 05:47 PM	#17
enacae Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 26	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Please keep the forum free to post. I love it here.

11-20-2008, 05:56 PM	#18
ADAM KADMON Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 99	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay After some reflection ~ I believe there is certainly something deeper going on within the psyche of both Bill and Kerry. Show them love and respect and appreciation for how they've contributed to you. Pray that they will "make it through" this time of tribulation which they face. It is obviously more then monetary -- and the monetary crisis we all face is just a symptom of something deeper. Despite the fact their decisions are not fully supported by all members here, this is common response "of the people" when their supposed leaders make any big decision. Some praise, some condemn. And politically, leaders will traditionally align themselves with the greater majority... Obviously that is not the case in this setting, at this time and place. For whatever reason, have faith that it's all perfect in the greater scheme of things -- even if the reasoning of how it's so eludes us now. If you choose not to offer financial support, give them both your blessing. They too are walking the path. Blessing Bill & Kerry, my peace is said. Adam K.

11-20-2008, 05:58 PM	#19
Pierrot Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 5	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Hi All, some months ago a friend told me about this forum, I had a look, found all the points of view interesting, then I subscribed, posted a bit, and I like it here. Now I discover some changes are coming next week, I didn't decide yet if I'll stay around or not - and talking about it with my friend it appears I maybe don't understand the situation here, so she suggested I post my point of view here. Here it goes - First - a forum has it's owners and moderators, and those subscribing and posting are invited here sort of, that makes a community, friends, etc and the owners have the rights and privileges to decide whatever they want about the place. When I'm invited to a party I usually, lol, don't try to move the furniture around or if the owners ask for some pparticipation to cover the costs I don't discuss it. One can come in or leave. Second - I love internet forums and participate on some of them for about 10 years. Those with free access mainly, because even if the fee is very low, multiply that by 20 or 50 forums.... my budget wouldn't allow that. AN d I don't limit myself to one forum.... otherwise which one to chose? So my choice is to participate to free of charge forums mainly - would I pay to write on a forum I just discovered on the net? not sure - it takes some weeks to get the atmosphere of a place, find how many people there are one can share with. Then decide - so I wonder when the Project Avalon will become a paying forum if that will not cut out some new arrivals and thus lose potential? I have seen that happen on some sites - some regular posters go away, the level drops down, and the site becomes a desert. It's not a question that the owners have to offer a free service, no, as I wrote above. In fact just some time ago on another forum the administrator opened up a thread saying she had trouble to finance the forum with personal money, suggesting a monthly fee, she put there a paypal button, and in about a month there was more than a 1000$ raised by a community 1/10th as big as the Project Avalon one. So the question might be about "how to get the money?" rather than find a solution that might be a problem. Further considerations - I confess I didn't have yet the time to read about Project Camelot... I'm familiar with some data for years, and am interested in, but too busy to study it now. And reading the threads here I understand or misunderstand that the Project Avalon Forums should finance that activity (?) - which sounds a bit weird to me and looks like a mis-managed marketing attempt, I might be wrong but that's how it looks from the outside. Normally every section of an organisation should finance itself. Or exchange one with the other that brings the money in. If project Camelot has books or DVDs or t-shirts, those should bring in enough money to finance further projects, further interviews, travels, books. I understand the wish to let that work free so it's widely knowns, though. But maybe the "how" again is mis-managed? Internet marketing is a very interesting tool. A lot to learn there - for instance I know one guy in "relationship" business, who sells his DVDs, CDs. His products are widely known, in his area, he has a terrific mailing list that grew above 1.000.000 subscribers. He sends regularly summaries of what's in the DVDs, courses etc, carefully written so the data are widely available, but leaves enough mystery (yeah, it's a marketing glue, lol) so people buy more and ask for more. And the forums pertaining to the subject are free of charge. The communication lines of the community are free and for free. And that makes the subject grow and become widely known. Well - that's just some thoughts, maybe useless maybe not. I feel the freedom to communicate should be protected. And on the other hand guys who do the work, like the owners of this site, should earn plenty of money too. I don't think otherwise - I'm a management consultant too ;-) And to put it really simple - from my maybe uninformed as yet point of view it looks like this: let's say there is a car company that produces the best and environment friendly cars. It wants its products widely known and used. It organises also free seminars and parties where customers and potential customers meet and exchange points of view (some of which even to build better cars). They all have a great time. And now the company decides to charge the parties and seminars to finance the costs of the whole production of all cars... well, probably I got something wrong ;-) But then I only write because I feel it's a pity when I hear people (want to) leave such a great place of communication like this. Friendly Pierrot Last edited by Pierrot; 11-20-2008 at 06:18 PM.

11-20-2008, 06:38 PM	#20
Myplanet2 In The Mists Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,133	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Thanks for writing Pierrot. The actual situation becomes somewhat obscured by people posting the contents of their speculations and misunderstandings, which grows from there. for someone to read posts about this, it's not easy to get an accurate picture of the situation. As I understand it, the situation goes like this: Bill and Kerry found they had a common purpose and interest in discovering the truth in the area covered by Camalot, and to create a safe space for whistleblowers to come forward with what they know about it. And to make that information freely available to all people. They both had or came into a bit of money, and used that to finance the project. Fast forward to now. they have both used up all of their personal money, and the project has come as far as it has. which is much farther than things were before Bill and Kerry started their project. Their interviews with St Clair, Green, and Wilcock benefited Camelot, and St Clair, Green and Wilcock, as well as the rest of us who were able to follow along through their generosity. As Bill and Kerry saw correspondence from more and more people displaying interest and support for their efforts, they decided to do the Avalon forum as a meeting/networking place for Ground crew as described in George Greens Channeled books. Obviously, it took off harder than anyone expected it would. It's very popular. But it was always the intention for it to be subscription based. It said so from day one. Right up front. The reason was for funding of the ongoing work. It was never for marketing considerations, as there has never been anything to sell. There might be now, but the Camelot data has always been free, and will remain so, as per Bill and Kerry's statements. Interviewing whistleblowers and truth tellers, is their job. It's just never paid them, aside from any generously given donations. Now it's simply time to start paying them for their work, as otherwise, the work can't go on. I personally think subscription is the way to go, for many reasons. If I was them, I'd not like to have to depend on whether any felt like paying me something this month so I can pay my rent, or stock my refridgerator. Subscriptions will be predictable. Donations are not. What if your employer, or clients got to pay you "at their discretion"? How would that make you feel? Me too. There is going to be a great deal of added value to being a member here. It's never just been a place where people can go to yak. You can do that anywhere. This place has always been purposefully created as a meeting/networking place for ground crew. Many hundreds who never understood that, or simply didn't care, have turned the forum into a majorly "off topic" forum. Much is on topic, but much is off topic. Subscription will have the added bonus of weeding out lots of those who just insist on selfishly going on about anything they want to go on about, instead of making any effort to deal with the subject matters of Ground Crew. This is all obviously my opinions based on my observations and discussions. But I believe this to give some context to some of what can be read in all these posts and threads about how people think Avalon can better serve THEM. I think it's an honour to be able to be in service to Avalon, and be a part of it's service to Mankind.

11-20-2008, 06:50 PM	#21
franciejones Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 307	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay MyPlanet2---well said, well put and much needed. Thank you for taking that time and effort.

11-20-2008, 06:55 PM	#23
franciejones Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 307	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay MaskMarvl...you misunderstood...please re-read. If still unclear, I would strongly suggest reading all of the information on Project Camelot and the "youngest threads" here from Bill and Kerry. MyPlanet2 has the right gist of it.