Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

[Reveling John]

Originally Posted by elirien

Well first of all I want to thank you for joining the debate. It is very important that at least we in the "truth seeker" milieu look at what actually is meant in all the documentaries, documents, philosophy and conspiracy of course. It begins to feel like an obligation for me almost and I'm very happy to see like minded, curious people.

I feel the same way, Elirien, like it's become my new job. Ironic, seeing as I'm currently unemployed

The definition of resource in Dictionary.com is:

–noun
1. a source of supply, support, or aid, esp. one that can be readily drawn upon when needed.
2. resources, the collective wealth of a country or its means of producing wealth.
3. Usually, resources. money, or any property that can be converted into money; assets.
4. Often, resources. an available means afforded by the mind or one's personal capabilities: to have resource against loneliness.
5. an action or measure to which one may have recourse in an emergency; expedient.
6. capability in dealing with a situation or in meeting difficulties: a woman of resource.

source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/resource

The problem with dicitionary definitions is that when you we use words to create sentences we have to choose which definitions apply to each word. If you use all six of those definition for 'resource' and apply that same approach to each word in the sentence, you'll get more than a billion different meanings for that sentence, because of course, the definitions themselves are made up of words, each of those words having multiple definitions. So we need to choose ONE definition in order for this conversation to have any meaning. Further more the way Jacque uses the term resource, he is using it as a synonym for NATURAL resources, which is even more specific. Here's what I mean:

In actuality, no one should make decisions as to how this blueprint will be designed. It must be based on the carrying capacity of our planet, its resources, human needs and the like.

-From The Future and Beyond by Jacque Fresco

So, since my use of the term RESOURCE will always be in reference to NATURAL RESOURCES let's look further into the definition of natural resource:

Natural resources are naturally occurring substances that are considered valuable in their relatively unmodified (natural) form. A natural resource's value rests in the amount of the material available and the demand for it. The latter is determined by its usefulness to production. A commodity is generally considered a natural resource when the primary activities associated with it are extraction and purification, as opposed to creation. Thus, mining, petroleum extraction, fishing, hunting, and forestry are generally considered natural-resource industries, while agriculture is not.
-wikipedia.org

Now, when it says that a resource's value "rests in the amount of the material available and the demand for it," it is defining VALUE within the context of a monetary-based economy. All of your definitions that use the terms VALUE, MEASURE, WEALTH, CAPITAL, and ASSETS are projections of a monetary-based understanding of the resources available to us. So basically when using such definitions as a foundation for argument, you are arguing from the perspective of consciousness that measures everything and defines everything on a scale of supply and demand, which in this manifestation of the world economy are total ABSTRACTIONS. Look at what's happening to the stock market. The economy is shrinking despite that fact that there has been NO CHANGE IN THE QUANTITY OF NATURAL RESOURCES in the last three weeks AND NO CHANGE IN THE DEMAND FOR THESE RESOURCES. If there is an observable change in REAL demand it would actually be an increase, which should result in an expanding economy, and yet...

Think about the housing "bubble" in the US. In July it was reported that the foreclosure crisis had left 2 MILLION homes (in the US alone) standing empty, with the price of these properties plummeting. Is there no demand for houses? My city (los angeles) alone had EIGHTY THOUSAND homeless people at the beginning of this year. San Francisco has TWENTY THOUSAND. New York has FORTY THOUSAND. Is there a demand for homes? Google the term "Tent City" or "Bushville", and you will find that the rate of homelessness in this country is SKY-ROCKETING EXPONENTIALLY. There is SUPPLY and there is a HUGE DEMAND, so why aren't these houses selling, and why is the market price crashing? This would indicate that supply and demand AS DEFINED IN A MONETARY-BASED WORLD ECONOMY IS A COMPLETE ABSTRACTION, having very little relationship to the actuall PHYSICAL MEASUREMENT of SUPPLY and the actual human need expressed as DEMAND.

Well since we all write on a computer which uses gold as a resource to transfer data in the central processing unit I think that this idea is a fallacy alone by the idea that Gold, Silver, platinum, etc. have no use and are a distraction. I won't go into monatomic gold since I don't know its composition directly but I know it is made from gold and it is being claimed that it has direct effects on the human body.

Furthermore, the DEMAND for gold, silver, or platinum is not based on their uses as conductive or semi-conductive materials, which has only come about in the last 60 years or so, although this may be changing at this point in time. However, in the periods of time when money was backed by a gold standard it was not a useful resource of any kind, except as a representation of wealth or capital.

And I didn't say DISTRACTION although that could be applied ironically. The term I'm using is ABSTRACTION:

In philosophical terminology, abstraction is the thought process wherein ideas are distanced from objects.

Abstraction uses a strategy of simplification, wherein formerly concrete details are left ambiguous, vague, or undefined; thus effective communication about things in the abstract requires an intuitive or common experience between the communicator and the communication recipient.

For example, many different things can be red. Likewise, many things sit on surfaces (as in picture 1, to the right). The property of redness and the relation sitting-on are therefore abstractions of those objects.

-wikipedia.org

I want gold the same as I want a roof over my body and food to feed my self. It is useful in the necessary setting and has become a necessity for humans that want to research anything based on their life. Products of mining are resources.

And yet your DEMAND for gold is not effecting the PRICE (i.e. VALUE) of gold. Rather the value of gold, which fluctuates daily, despite a finite REAL supply and an exponentially increasing REAL demand, is determined by how gold COMMODITIES are selling on the stock market. Notice that COMMODITY is an inherently monetary-based distinction and would have no use in a (natural) resource-based economy.

We could conclude that the use of gold is what is its definition in this aspect. You can either use it as a Resource or a commodity.

Yes you can and the fact that you can use it as a COMMODITY gives owners of gold and gold stock an incentive to ARTIFICIALLY LOWER THE SUPPLY of gold in circulation (which they do, in the same way that they control the supply of silver, diamonds, plantinum, oil, beans, rice, corn, EVERYTHING - despite millions of people having a REAL need/demand for these items). For this same reason stock traders who speciallized in short-selling are given incentive to ARTIFICIALLY INCREASE SUPPLY so that when the commodity looses value they can make money off of the sale (short sellers make money when a stock sells at a loss). This is EXACTLY what they did in the MORTGAGE and DERIVATIVE markets, which led to the sub-mortgage crisis because (and this is freaking insane) THEY PROFIT FROM OUR LOSSES. If gold were ONLY a resource, and it's value were ONLY determined by your REAL need and my REAL need to harness it as a conductive material, our valuation would be completely disconnected from the way we currently assign value to this material. In other words it would have REAL VALUE, but this is IMPOSSIBLE IN A MONETARY SYSTEM.

If money is based on gold and if you have a fort knox still going then capital is a resource or at least capital is comprised partly of resource (I don't know what is being used by governments as physical evidence for capital. I could use some help here, especially from you government agents lurking around here :P ).

That's the whole point, friend. NOTHING IS BEING USED AS PHYSICAL EVIDENCE FOR CAPITAL. That's the whole freakin point.

NOTHING.

Our entire economic model is base on FAITH. It is pure ABSTRACTION. That is why when people get afraid the whole thing starts to fall apart.

From BBC News:

Fear grips global stock markets

...In a day of major panic selling, the Dow Jones index fell as much as 5% in the US before ending down 1.5%.

The fear is that the financial crisis will tip the world into a recession....

Investors increasingly fear a global recession, despite interest rate cuts and cash injections by central banks...

"Fear has been running all over Wall Street," said Dave Henderson, a floor trader on the New York Stock Exchange...

-BBC News

It's right in front of our faces and in the very language that we use to describe the collapse. We have lost FAITH which is the only thing that our capital is supported by. Better put:

CAPITAL IS FAITH.

Those that wield capital and leverage wealth are wielding FAITH and leveraging FAITH. Now that we are loosing FAITH, now that we are SEEING that the whole system revolves around a MIND GAME, the whole thing is falling apart. The ABSTRACTION is no longer believable.

Everyone who reads this and feels that there is atleast some truth to what I'm saying should check out Alan Watts. In this short lecture he lays it out sooooo clearly:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...906&playnext=1




I will leave this responce to the realm of capital V.S. resource management. I did read what you had to say about religioun and I quite agree with your position that nobody really knows what's going on and that you've made it your goal to find out for yourself. I love it. DO YOU!

As you formulate further responses on this subject try to apply this meme to your thought process:

"Is this thought the product of a monetary system? What would this thought look like in the absence of wealth and capital?"

Great Love,
John

P.S. I've started a new thread for discussing the venus project here:
http://projectavalon.org/forum/showt...9869#post59869