Zeitgeist Addendum**must see**

[TranceAm]

Originally Posted by elirien

Hi TranceAm, here we are again and I'm happy to be here.

Well the thing they didn't address was if all religions were solar cults in its essence. The 'debunkers' (don't like that word. Sounds like they were offering an alternative to truth), or fact checkers so to speak claim that the facts they show on Maxwell's research is bs. Not just the ressurection aspect but also if Jesus of Nazareth was real or just some concept embedded in astro-theology (which just reeks bs imho but one has to have an open mind on this matters). The claims which were false in the first film and from biased information which were unproven theories from secret society members (the secret society membership is here the un-important part imho). They didn't find any facts supporting these claims.

But the point is that they don't have to. The one with the first claim proves.
The claim is that Jesus existed and did extraordinairy things.. (All fine and dandy, since it ain't mandatory anymore to believe in that..)
The strange thing that happens is that one first has to approve to this claim, before one can have a counter claim or have an alternative claim... And has to come up with proof that discounts the first claim before we even can get to the second claim, or back to the neutral situation without the now disproven first claim.. And giving the information to justify a reasonable doubt ain't enough to counter the first claim, although reasonable doubt was enough to stake the first claim...

Originally Posted by elirien

Well actually no. The first part explains how the federal banking system works not how money works. It details how what represented the people's effort and labor as a transactional medium based on gold (which makes it a resource based economy) was transformed into a system which is based on nothing and sucks the labor of the people and transfers it to a select few which is not the problem of money but how it is being used. Am I wrong in interpreting it this way?

The way I see it, is that the real wealth of people, "life time converted to money by work", becomes a wealth expressed in paper/fiat money, that can be stolen from, by the means of devaluation or inflation of the money supply. This in contradiction to an exchange of life wealth to gold, since gold has its own value, and thus lifetime has a "hard" value....:-) and that is hard to steal from if you can't get your hands in the sock under that matress.
Am I wrong in seeing it this way, or Am I defining your point of view differently?

Originally Posted by elirien

Later on the venus project tries to throw the baby out with the bathwater by generalizing problems which are very localized on the administration of money.

I don't know, the bigger picture does reveal that wars are created by the bankers to get countries on their knees with the loans they need for warfare.
If that wasn't the case, then the US & the WOrld would be full of libraries, and palaces thus without the need for the Venus Project. That ain't the case, although a double wide is still luxury over that war torn piece of concrete in Bagdad.

Originally Posted by elirien

cheers

Cheers...

[elirien]

Originally Posted by TranceAm

But the point is that they don't have to. The one with the first claim proves.
The claim is that Jesus existed and did extraordinairy things.. (All fine and dandy, since it ain't mandatory anymore to believe in that..)

Wait a second. The claim by Zeitgeist is that every religion they show on there (Islam is not shown by the way) is an astro cult, which the elite and the sheople believe in as the worship of the one true god, which is bs. in the case of christianity (not catholicism by the way. That is a pantheistic cult). I don't know how much you care about slandered people in this case but I get upset if someone is called a schill or psy-ops (which Alex Jones was called before he pressed the israeli side of 9/11).

Originally Posted by TranceAm

The strange thing that happens is that one first has to approve to this claim, before one can have a counter claim or have an alternative claim... And has to come up with proof that discounts the first claim before we even can get to the second claim, or back to the neutral situation without the now disproven first claim.. And giving the information to justify a reasonable doubt ain't enough to counter the first claim, although reasonable doubt was enough to stake the first claim...

What do you mean by approve? I can't approve plain unproven falsehood. Did you approve what Commander Adama over here or all the 14th October Rescue squad spread? If you mean that I should see it as a proposition then be sure that I did. Why would I discuss this if I didn't? These seem like word games rather then a debate here

Originally Posted by TranceAm

The way I see it, is that the real wealth of people, "life time converted to money by work", becomes a wealth expressed in paper/fiat money, that can be stolen from, by the means of devaluation or inflation of the money supply. This in contradiction to an exchange of life wealth to gold, since gold has its own value, and thus lifetime has a "hard" value....:-) and that is hard to steal from if you can't get your hands in the sock under that matress.
Am I wrong in seeing it this way, or Am I defining your point of view differently?

Lifetime nice phrasing Well not different altogether but there are certain details. First of all the sweat of your brow (or other organs) doesn't necessarily exchange to fiat money. I do believe that not all money is fiat money in every country. I e-mailed our central bank over here to get an answer for the country I live in right now. Beyond that, it's exactly what I meant.

Originally Posted by TranceAm

I don't know, the bigger picture does reveal that wars are created by the bankers to get countries on their knees with the loans they need for warfare.
If that wasn't the case, then the US & the WOrld would be full of libraries, and palaces thus without the need for the Venus Project. That ain't the case, although a double wide is still luxury over that war torn piece of concrete in Bagdad.

Cheers...

Well exactly my friend. Although not only are the bankers to blame but all of us who give them their support. If the Venus project was just about that then I would have no problem with it (which would be a very just cause by the way). But re-phrasing the NWO with all this "info" based on the theosophic crowd with occult visuals like that "handmade pyramid shining through the sun" is not for me.

By the way it would also be nice to hear from the "I luv Zeitgeist" crowd. Not that I am singling (spelling!?) myself out here. Let's look at it in more detail rather then a piece of entertainment (I say it every time. I luv this series soundtracks )

[TranceAm]

Originally Posted by elirien

Wait a second. The claim by Zeitgeist is that every religion they show on there (Islam is not shown by the way) is an astro cult,

I thought they made a very good case of that... And since Islam acknowledges Jesus Christ as another Messiah, they acknowledge the other religions basis for existence, and get credibility back from it. (If Jesus was a Messiah, then Mohamed can be a Messiah.) I think they upped the ante a little bit, and place the bar a lot higher by adding the claim, the "last" one... No other will follow. I might be wrong, on hearsay.

Originally Posted by elirien

What do you mean by approve?

Sorry about that, My bad, I should have written acknowledged.

Let me give an example of what I mean, and see how far you approve of it.

A person mind can (Considering believing anything but in this case say "God".) in a virgin state, when he has never heard of that meme before... Needles to say, In this world, one has to be a little child unable to understand language to be in this state.

The moment the meme is introduced in the persons mind, accompanied with the proof as surrounding us and supplied by the religions that go around (Complete sometimes with the carrot/stick approach and endless indoctrination from several sources..),
The person can do 2 things, Either accept it, or reject it.
Accepting it means becoming in a believer. (And Xerox the meme.)
Rejecting it means changing from virgin to an unbeliever...

However, in case unbelieving or later believing something different, now in every discussion case this meme, the person has to prove that the meme is untrue before putting forward his own proof for his own case... He has to acknowledge the meme as something that can be disproved, while it has never been proven to start with...

Originally Posted by elirien

These seem like word games rather then a debate here

Word games? Nono, it is World Games. And according to religions that go around: Winner takes all. :-)

Again a pleasure.

P.S Commander Adama? Lorne Greene or Edward James Olmos?
http://www.battlestargalactica.com/index.htm

[elirien]

Originally Posted by TranceAm

I thought they made a very good case of that... And since Islam acknowledges Jesus Christ as another Messiah, they acknowledge the other religions basis for existence, and get credibility back from it. (If Jesus was a Messiah, then Mohamed can be a Messiah.) I think they upped the ante a little bit, and place the bar a lot higher by adding the claim, the "last" one... No other will follow. I might be wrong, on hearsay.

Yup you are right as far as I know (please correct us if we write bs here). But if Jesus is not to proven a myth then I don't think that would work either. His station as a prophet is of course another issue. I won't comment on that one since I don't think that I have read enough Torah, Bible and Koran to detail this.

Originally Posted by TranceAm

Sorry about that, My bad, I should have written acknowledged.

Let me give an example of what I mean, and see how far you approve of it.

A person mind can (Considering believing anything but in this case say "God".) in a virgin state, when he has never heard of that meme before... Needles to say, In this world, one has to be a little child unable to understand language to be in this state.

The moment the meme is introduced in the persons mind, accompanied with the proof as surrounding us and supplied by the religions that go around (Complete sometimes with the carrot/stick approach and endless indoctrination from several sources..),
The person can do 2 things, Either accept it, or reject it.
Accepting it means becoming in a believer. (And Xerox the meme.)
Rejecting it means changing from virgin to an unbeliever...

However, in case unbelieving or later believing something different, now in every discussion case this meme, the person has to prove that the meme is untrue before putting forward his own proof for his own case... He has to acknowledge the meme as something that can be disproved, while it has never been proven to start with...

I approve your ideas Well the thing is you have a third option besides believing (as you said xeroxing the meme) and rejecting and thus being a non-believer. Researching it. Convincing yourself based on your research before this meme. Truth is the ultimate meme since it can't be copied and not spread. It is a constant that is not open for interpretation based on physical entities. You can acknowledge its existence or not. That are the only options.

In case of Zeitgeist's claims on religion it is just a meme rather then obvious truth. It fails when being tested. Jesus was not a myth as neither was Aleister Crowley for example. Both are individuals that have claims about the beyond. Both have documentation that proves their existence. Both have religious scripture.

Originally Posted by TranceAm

Word games? Nono, it is World Games. And according to religions that go around: Winner takes all. :-)

Yeah, that's the main thing that bothers me with religion anyway. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a supporter of religion and mass movements. The idea of a winner in this universe where I just know of a little bit about life on this particular planet seems too human derived to be universal truth anyway

Originally Posted by TranceAm

Again a pleasure.

P.S Commander Adama? Lorne Greene or Edward James Olmos?
http://www.battlestargalactica.com/index.htm

As it always is for me. Oh I know of the comparison. Makes me also think about George Green