For "Survivors" Eyes Only

[Luigis Mushroom]

First of all I'd like to know who is supposed to save us if martial law occurs.

Secondly, I'm not saying it couldn't, just that by most accounts it isn't yet. In Eastern Germany during the 80s, most people were not under Stasi surveillance, it's the fact that they all thought they were that made it effective.

What follows is my friend's answer to a question I posed about how I'm supposed to trust a government with no accountability.

No, you don't understand the process. This is exactly what I mean. If they are not absolutely guilty, BEYOND what it takes to convict somebody in the United States, they are released by our unit on the spot. There is no chance for the shady higher ups to get their hands on the EPW's. That only comes later, with HVT's (high value targets).

The evidence is purely physical, ie [hard evidence] etc etc. We are the average joes. We have no interest in top secret detaining for information or anything like that. If they do nothing wrong, they are released. Also, it is MANDATORY that pictures of the evidence are included in the arrest. If photographs are absent, the detainee is released.

If they ARE guilty, with pure physical evidence AND photographs to back it up, then away they go. And I don't give a **** where they go or what happens to them. Maybe if your friends had been blown up like mine have you would understand that statement.

All I'm saying is that you don't understand how the EPW system works, and you shouldn't pretend that you do.

I know, it's not freedom, but it's not quite fascism yet.

[Sol Invictus]

Luigis,
I can respect the position of a ground trooper. Theres is a world of laws and rules.

However i am very very familiar with the dark side and how they operate.

Believe me when I say there is a world were men knock on doors and even scores, no questions asked.

Gitmo is full of people who never had a seconds thought that the long arm and mailed fist of the NSA and CIA could reach that far and so fast.

Something that I haven't seen discussed it the averaage person's appaling lack of physical fitness.

My partner and I have been planning for months, getting a BoB ready, practicing outdoor living skills, learning about native edible plants, and preparing mentally for a situation which would require us put our plans in motion. We do this not just for a potential apocalypse but also for any type of situation where we couldn't depend on the modern comforts of life.

One thing we didn't think about though in all our planning was the fact that with rather heavy backpack on my back I can't walk all that far. I'm not totally out of shape, I'm sure I could walk twenty miles easy, but to do it for several days/weeks/months at a time, I find that thought rather disconcerting. As our plan involves leaving the immediate area quickly, and staying mobile and as invisible as possible the fact that we aren't as physically fit as possible is a wrench.

But, we've recognized this rather blatant oversight and have started preparing. Walking with our backpacks on to try and get used to it, excesing more regualrly and generally trying to train our bodies as much as possible.

Some great advice in these posts and I will keep reading to learn as much as possible.

Sol and Luigi (I'm shocked by the bong in your avatar, I pegged the Mario Brothers as trippers, ya' know, because of the mushrooms),

Your exchanges here have forced me consider the possibility and necessity of aggressiveness. Again, as elsewhere, I find myself in agreement with Sol. If the PTB become our worst enemy in the near future instead of the environment, and we find ourselves in a geographic zone that attracts their scrutiny, offense will not be an option. This is the perfect opportunity for me to say that spiritual preparation for the future is just as important as the physical. Some of us here will find that the best laid plans might not matter at all. Offense would be pointless. That is not to say that offensive activity in the spirit of say, the American Revolution, is not an admirable thought, just merely impossible in the era of sattelites, laser and microwave weapons, and robots. Washington would have had his ass handed to him if Cornwallis had just one COMSAT - one of the most important factors that led to the colonial victory was that the Continental Army (a federalized collection of local militias) knew the terrain, while British forces (especially the officers - the tacticians) knew next to nothing about it beyond what others told them. If offense will be pointless, then it is violence for violence's sake - a paradigm of the past and present I personally don't want to be a part of in the future. I tend to think that the immediate survivors of whatever is coming will be too busy surviving to worry about such things - the generation after us will have to make those decisions for themselves.

With that being said, I am an advocate for defense, but in that regard, it is not the PTB I worry about. If a small village of fifty souls, armed with fouling pieces and a few rifles, confronts a well equipped outfit of PTB stormtroopers, well, they are screwed - that will be a moment where spiritual preparation is of the utmost importance. Defense preparations for these small communities, in my mind, will be necessary for dealing with other survivor bands who may be one can short of a six-pack. We know that there are some pretty unpleasant groups that have been preparing for the apocalypse since the first successful Russian nuclear tests in 1949. I'm not so much worried about the PTB as I am them. What happens when one of these well armed white supremacist groups crawls out of their fallout shelter, investigates the countryside, and finds a multiethnic camp close by? Maybe thier experiences in the hole will draw them closer to humanity and enlighten them, but more than likely, it won't, and the realization that they can do as they please may lead them to do ugly things. Keep in mind that the larger organized crime syndicates (street gangs, mafia, drug cartels, etc.) may also make it through to the other side - they are probably more well organized than most of us here on Avalon. In terms of arms and ammunition for defense, that is the sort of conflict I see: defending peaceful communites from other survivors. I just don't think that whatever is coming will selectively weed out the *******s, and leave the enlightened. Defense and hunting should be the goal in weapons preparation for the coming decade or two.

Verity,

You raise a good point. As a former fat guy, I can tell you, physical fitness will be paramount to survival. I tend to think that when the SHTF, however, lack of food, migration, and stress will do wonders for the obescity plague. If you are say, 100 pounds or less overweight, it only takes a few weeks of reduced caloric intake and increased physical activity to lose enough fat and build enough muscle mass to become reasonably fit. Hell, I lost ten pounds in two weeks by stopping my soda intake alone - PepsiCo, McDonalds, etc. probably won't have much of a business/distribution plan in place for the type of future all of us here expect. But you are right; those reading this thread now who are overweight should make the effort to become fit. Even if we are all wrong and the future is filled with peace, love, and teddy bears that shoot rainbows from thier eyes, they will live longer to enjoy it.

Thanks for the posts, and keep em' coming.

[Shellie]

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but I've thought about the "obesity plague" and have wondered something strange; what if this "plague" is really a collective unconscious preparation for what is to come? After all, fat is the only all-natural famine insurance we have.

It is my understanding that once the body has metabolized its intake, and produced "fat," that fat can only be remetabolized if ingested - a most yucky proposition. Fat is lost in the fitness process, not remetabolized, i.e., you lose it, not use it. Mammals that store fat for hibernation use it for warmth, not sustinance. We are not a hibernating species, so excess fat only hampers ideal biological functions.

[Swanny]

The fat people are going to struggle, but it's their own fault for over eating, or is it just because they are big boned??

[Shellie]

I don't think it will be "fat" people who struggle, it will be those who are totally out of shape. There are lots of overweight people who are physically healthier, stronger, and have more stamina than skinny people.

I'm not sure I agree with the tone of your post. I agree that being overweight, suffering the resultant health problems, and having great difficulty if the SHTF should be viewed as a personal choice, and the overweight should own their mistakes.

With that being said, there are external factors that come into play, unrestrained and manipulative advertising, the addition of addictive chemical compounds, etc. have had their impact.

Ridicule is not what motivates people to change, and has no place on this thread.

[Natoka]

What a thread! Here's a link for those who are inclined to make the tools needed after all the high tech supplies have 'expired'. Covers the areas from music, household, weaponry and so very much more.

URL="http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/directory" Cut and paste if I didn't get it right.

Natoka

Thanks Nakota - I'll check that site out as soon as I have time.

As for Peer's comments on hemp - I'm in 100% agreement. It can also be used as an alternative fuel. A great book that documents the very historical dicline that Peer discusses in his post is called "The Emperer Wears No Clothes" by Jack Herer. His book is the standard.

[Sol Invictus]

Hemp.

Natures very own 'miracle mile' gift to us.

Fuel, medicines, clothes, you name it hemp can do it cheaply, efficiently and all the time keeping the soil in tip top condition because it doesn't just take take take from the soil, it gives back, making its habitat stronger each passing year.

I hope in times ahead we will see miles upon miles of this growing freely in fields with nervous laughter when we look back at the sheer naked greed of the plastics industry aka petrochemical stasi.

[Peer]

And you don't get addicted.
After almost 40 years of smoking it I just quit from one day to another and never had any addiction symptoms.

[Peer]

On bows:
There are a lot of sites about bowbuilding but many are about traditional (=longbow) bows.
I prefer the recurve bow because it is much faster, smaller, much easier to handle and to draw than the slow and backbreaking longbow.
Also the power of the bow is often exaggerated.
Big guys want to draw 60 or 80 pound bows.
(The drawing weight is measured at 28# drawing length).
As it is ridiculous to hunt for little game on a distance of more than about 15-25 metres no such drawingweight is required.
A 35-50 pnd bow will do fine and if you put on a razorhead point it will penetrate a bullitproof vest on about 25 metres as well.
Much easier (and cheaper) than building your own bow you can buy Korean (Samick) huntingbows for a very reasonable prize.
Some bows you buy for $ 50-$ 100.
Remember you don't want to be the worlds Archerychampion but you want to get yourself a rabbit a day and if nessecary be able to "shoot it from the hip" and that requires a completely different skill.
And it may seem a joke but last summer I practiced shooting sitting in my lazy chair but that is not so funny as it seems as you sometimes must be able to shoot laying on a big branch of a tree.

http://picasaweb.google.nl/peervande...ey=WElPSfQQgdU

You can see the longbow my friend is shooting is not half as comfortable as my shorter recurve and although my friend draws about 10 Lbs more my arrow is faster (we tested that with an electronic device).
The beercan I hold between my thighs shows that targetpracticing should be fun.
If it is not your thing don't do it but if it attracts you go ahaed and you'll have a wonderfull sport untill you need the skill in a practical way.
The two video's also show the difference between the comfort of a recurve bow and the longbow

There are also very good american huntingbows so check out this site:
http://www.beararcheryproducts.com/

Here you can see what a bow is capable of. This is no trick.
Talking about accuracy. Also look at the arrow in flight in slow motion.
See the vibration and the bending?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcNY2t0h-HE

On the other hand you wouldn't be able to move in the forest with that equipment but hitting an egg at 30-40 metres without site and stabilisors is no exeption.
I have seen arrows being split by the second one many times.

Ok for now.

[Luigis Mushroom]

I don't suggest violence for the sake of violence, I suggest that defending fringe communities by sitting in one spot with a rifle is impossible and that certain tactics are necessary because otherwise you're just a target for some of the advanced artillery you mentioned.

The elements are no fun to deal with, but the best way to prepare is take a survival course, not read up on theories. I think that survival material is very prevalent in society today, you got Bear Grills and Survivorman on TV and numerous magazines and training courses available all over the United States. Anyone that wants to, in this time period right now, can learn how to handle the wilderness, you just need to actively learn it.

But one none of that teaches you is the unique situation we will be facing. In my original post, I stressed 3 things, 1. Awareness of the trespassers in your territory 2. Establishing relationships and communication with other settlers and safe zones 3. Helping other survivors to these safe zones.

We have a responsibility that for most of us will go beyond knowing how to survive the elements to helping as many other people as we can survive the elements. For 90% of people, defense will probably only be in regard to bandits and outlaws, and the PTB will be mostly focused on its own zones. However, defense against outlaws is still defense, and building camps in areas with no awareness, no friends, and no ammunition makes you a sitting duck.

My suggestions were not that we should take an offensive role, that's simply not the objective of project avalon, but that we should be prepared for the possibility of violence and no how respond appropriately, and the most effective ways are 1. Running away and 2. Ambushing. Defending yourself from your home base is not included on that list, and that is my main point about this.

[Seva]

Originally Posted by Shellie

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but I've thought about the "obesity plague" and have wondered something strange; what if this "plague" is really a collective unconscious preparation for what is to come? After all, fat is the only all-natural famine insurance we have.

Dude maybe so, so in a way im carring my stocked food supplies "on me"? I heard someone way once it was a way for us to ground, to get the munchies more ect. But it might be a subconscious was of preparing even if our minds cant really grasp whats comming.

This thread rocks BTW i know effort has to be put into maintaining exhistance and sititng in a circle singing Cum By Ya will only go so far LOL

[Sol Invictus]

Actually, fatty deposits are a bad source of energy for the body. The body would rather metabolise muscle tissue for energy as it is far far more efficient, and fat cannot be converted into carbohydrates either...


Ask your Dr or Nurse about it, and they will show you or tell you why this is so - its all about glycogen storage and ATP production for use as the cellular energy source. (unless its red blood cells then they need direct glucose transport for energy, as does the brain.

[Luigis Mushroom]

Yeah I don't think we should confuse being a society programmed to eat unhealthy foods as our unconscious minds preparing us for hard times.

[bosr]

Here is a very nice source of survival information. I especially like the Bow Bed

http://wildwoodsurvival.com