For "Survivors" Eyes Only

[Carrie1971]

Originally Posted by Alexandra

I have a question. Who's land do you all think that you are going to settle on? There is no wilderness in this country. Every square inch of land is owned by someone, including the mountains. Do you think that the government is going to let you live on their land? The farmers are the rural community and they certainly aren't giving up their land to some city slicker so he can survive.

Also, do any of you have any concept of the breadth of surveillance capapbility that the government possesses? They can see you driving in your car, see through the earth several miles [forget about burying anything] and much more.

Every survival dream I have had since I was a small child involves people always on the move and being tracked. In a sense, this can be called herding. Consequently, the best mode of survival is to learn to survive from the land. Gardens will be out of the question-too visible, time consuming, and take months to produce anything. Survival communities can then be formed only when it is all over [Climatic changes, wars, aliens, ect.], providing there is still a planet called the earth. This is not negativity. This is reality.

The physical level is not the only thing that will be out of wack, so to speak. This scenario deals with several levels of existance, remember we are dealing with energy and no level is an island unto itself.

In regard to land in the wild.
At this point if you have filed an Active "mine claim" Which in it's own a long paperwork hassel. However if you have a mine claim you do have "rights" to be on "public land" .....

Which brings me to this point.

The U.S. "forest Service" and the "Department of Lands of each state" are huge areas where there is "Nothing" however if you do not "need" a power cord and a phone line to feel alive you can "make it" out in these wild areas.

Be aware that right now in these Northwoods there are many law enforecment agencys who do not let people "camp" on the Government held lands unless you are in a camp ground area and it is open. Again there is the hassel of having a permint or paying a fee.

Alexandra,

Good points, but I disagree that there are no wild places left. Satellites can peek anywhere, but there exist many places that whatever is left of negative contol forces won't be paying attention to. There are rural places, even within 80-100 miles of our oldest metropolitan centers, that will not be given much scrutiny by the PTB or roving bands of scumbags. They will be distracted by the mass chaos that will come from the densly populated areas. Chances are, according to some of the theories, the PTB will be more worried about survival themselves. I'm a hard core skeptic, but the existance of underground facilities is something that has recently hit mainstream news outlets - creating, in my mind at least, a confirmation that the PTB know that short term survival concerns are a fruitful avenue of concern.

I don't know where you grew up, but I grew up in the woods, on a major river draining into the Mississippi River. There were places that, over ten years, I was the only human being there. There are wild places left.

Alexandra does highlight a major concern - should we be considering large, fort like structures, or camoflaged structures that can somehow mask the resultant heat signatures (heat signatures will be what gives these hidden communities away from satellite imagery)?

BOSR,

Tell us more! What is the average shelf life of canned goods one can get from, say, a Save-A-Lot, or Aldis? Given the bulk created by long term storage, should potential communites consider a combination of permanent settlement and mobility?

That very question means that all here must "know their region."

[bosr]

Originally Posted by historycircus

BOSR,

Tell us more! What is the average shelf life of canned goods one can get from, say, a Save-A-Lot, or Aldis? Given the bulk created by long term storage, should potential communites consider a combination of permanent settlement and mobility?

That very question means that all here must "know their region."

Know your region is exactly right. For example: If you live in a metro area you are screwed if you need to scramble and you can't act quickly. Imagine trying to get out of town when every highway is jammed with traffic or blockaded by military. You need to move FAST!

As for shelf life, who knows. Canned goods are known to last well beyond the posted expiry date. Avoid dented cans and get the freshest you can find, preferrably at a high volume grocery store where stock is moved out fast. If nothing happens at all and life goes on normally eat the food before it expires and replace it with fresh items.

You are not limited to canned goods. Buy items such as peanut butter, crackers, honey, dried fruits and trail mix. If you are hungry, you will not object too much if the food is a little stale. Your local Dollar Store is a good source for some of this.

Long term storage foods are available if you can afford it such as Meals Ready to Eat (MREs) and dehydrated foods. These foods have the advantage of being compact and easy to transport. Here are a couple of suppliers that I like...
MRE Depot
Ready Reserve Foods

[Soul Sequence]

Originally Posted by historycircus

(heat signatures will be what gives these hidden communities away from satellite imagery)?

It got me thinking when you said this.....I have researched unmanned planes the military uses that can, in reality, its just a remote controlled spy plane taking heat signatures and I'm sure they can also equip to target certain signatures automatically..........this is scary........but something to be prepared for....I'll do some research and see what I can find to combat this if any.

"Technology has its role. Ground-penetrating radar and heat sensors can locate enemy fighters in tunnels or behind walls.

One such device was quietly loaned to rescue teams after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center, Pentagon officials said. Called the Tactical Mobile Robot, this small, remote-controlled vehicle, which is still undergoing tests, burrows through walls or concrete and sends back pictures.

Urban operations would begin after sundown, when American optical technology allows its forces to dominate the battlefield while many adversaries are blinded by the night. Most residents are at home, so they do not fill the streets. The streets are the most dangeous place. "

Thank you Soul Sequence - that is your homework for this thread. Tell us everything you can about known and hypothosized (and that is where the whistleblower testimony is important) air monitering capabilities. I personally believe that if it is above 50 degrees, it can be seen from the sky in the dark. We will have to watch using open fires . . .

Let us know what you come up with.

Thanks.

Alexandra,

The population push from the cities to the hinterlands will be pretty traumatic - and PTB focus of control will be on the riots in the cities, and the violent exodus out of them. That, however, is a general statement. The 80-100 miles surrounding a city like New York will definately be different from the 80-100 miles surrounding, say, St. Louis, Detroit, or San Francisco. I am from the trans-Mississippi west, and I know of places that few scumbags will ever journey to - it would be too much work to get to them. I'm more worried about my government than I am any group of gang-bangers or bikers.

It is possible to disguise heat signatures - that ability is what made the Vietnamese so formidable. We had satellites in the sky then that could read heat, and it didn't make a difference. We know only a fraction of thier secrets today. There is also "heat background noise" that will work to hiders's advantage.

Will they really care about a few hundred people out in the woods? Will communities that pose them no threat be worth the effort?

[Waterman]

Surviving in the cities with financial collapse creating chaos would be very hard.

[Soul Sequence]

Excellent link and resource, Waterman

Here's what I have found at the moment:

where I found it
http://www.defensereview.com/modules...rticle&sid=725

and the link to their site.........
http://www.intermat.gr/

and I'm still looking for more natural methods, btw the "cover yourself with mud" method doesnt work, it will for a few seconds, minutes, then your body heat will just heat up the mud.

Regards and Blessings,
Soul Sequence

[conniec818]

Originally Posted by Soul Sequence

Excellent link and resource, Waterman



and I'm still looking for more natural methods, btw the "cover yourself with mud" method doesnt work, it will for a few seconds, minutes, then your body heat will just heat up the mud.

Regards and Blessings,
Soul Sequence

greetings to all....
as per "covering yourself with mud"....no this doesnt work...but supposedly..solar blankets do...and if my memory serves me correctly..fire resistant blankets do also...ill have to look into that last one though..

[Waterman]

Remember pine needles block IR and other high tech devices. so keep that in mind in the pine forests.

And when using thermal space blankets to cover your heat signature make sure to use one on the ground to keep the ground from showing where you were.

[Soul Sequence]

Originally Posted by Waterman

By the way I've been in a situation where helos were looking for me.

If possible locate yourself next to livestock and in particular if there are two of you. Stay up against each other and try to resemble the larger heat signature of a cow. horse, etc...

When we were located we ignited barrels of wood saturated with oil prior to them arriving so that our signatures were hard to find among the burning barrels.

Remember pine needles block IR and other high tech devices. so keep that in mind in the pine forests.

And when using thermal space blankets to cover your heat signature make sure to use one on the ground to keep the ground from showing where you were.

Waterman

wow, excellent info, waterman...........I understand the rest but how do pine needles work?

Originally Posted by Waterman

By the way I've been in a situation where helos were looking for me.

If possible locate yourself next to livestock and in particular if there are two of you. Stay up against each other and try to resemble the larger heat signature of a cow. horse, etc...

When we were located we ignited barrels of wood saturated with oil prior to them arriving so that our signatures were hard to find among the burning barrels.

Remember pine needles block IR and other high tech devices. so keep that in mind in the pine forests.

And when using thermal space blankets to cover your heat signature make sure to use one on the ground to keep the ground from showing where you were.

Waterman

Tell me more. thanks

[addalight]

How far underground do you have to go before your heat signature goes away?

[bosr]

Here is a link to a good site with free survival books and nuclear information.
http://www.ki4u.com/webpal/d_resources/index.htm

[Waterman]

It depends whether you are under rock or dirt. AND it depends on how important you are and whether they have the expensive stuff operating that can find you.

Wearing material like a survival blanket is better than going underground unless it is just really convenient. Remember that there is available material that is like a faraday cage it stops frequencies. It is about $35 per yard and for about $1000 you can canopy your bed and then add a space/survival blanket and you are pretty much gone!

[Peace of Mine]

One enterprising couple has been living in the mountains of Oregon by choice, in temporary shelters, for years without being detected or run out of their habitat. They have been editing a newsletter for almost 30 years about their experiences. Pay $20 for the back issues, if for no other reason than to set your fears free.

These people have not only survived, they have thrived. And they have shared the secrets of how to set up a shelter that is not disturbed by hunters, or wardens, or anybody else, on public lands. They take simple ideas, like solar ovens, and tweak it until it works for them. They share exactly how to make the most efficient rocket stoves with simple materials on hand, or build a heater in the earth, and angle the smoke so that it will not be easily detected.

They share specifics of a food storage program under the most daunting of conditions. They'll make you think about basics with down-to-earth clarity that will convince you that it can be done. On the smallest of budgets. With specifics.

Most of us would not choose to live such simple lives, unless it became a matter of survival. Bert and Holly's Newsletter is part of my survival gear.

Dwelling Portably, POB 190, Philomath, OR 97370 $20 cash for (30??) back issues plus I'd send $5. for postage. They don't ask for it, but everything else has gone up, so I'd include it as a donation.

[showmemo]

A great topic I see allot of things to scare people though as this should be a positive thread of thought though. Have you ever wondered maybe the government says they have this and that to scare people into thinking oh my what ever shall I do they are far to powerful, sure they do have some things we have seen them but here is a thought of something that happened not to long ago. Remember seeing Israel gathering their forces on the news how they news made it seemed they where so mighty and strong? as they where ready to role into Palestine, what did happen they did not stay long did they as a few groups without tanks or jets and even helicopters sent them home hey how about Vietnam no more said there sorry vets I know the powers that be played you guys and guess what they will again to the new soldiers.

This lesson should be taken to heart as there has always been a Goliath and a David all the clenches the bigger they are the harder they fall should be listened to. Mobile is good yet have a base of operation have a way to gather forces and then when not needed split off to smaller groups and KISS (keep it simple stupid) know when to fight and when to run see you must get information on how to survive and how to lead to be able to train groups here is one good read The Art of War is a nobrainer. Good military books from the Ranger and Spacial forces they have ones to teach on how to survive in the cold to learning to read a compass and map. Learn field crafts and how to store caches in the spot you pick with your friends, train on gun use and other weapons such as bows for hunting. At this stage it may be best for you to find like minded people in your area you can train with now do not be afraid to ask questions you can only do so much online, you have to go out and do these things to learn as reading can do only so much.

Go to your local gun shop or sports store let them know you need to find a weapon for hunting game a small cali. such as a 22 for small game squirrel a shotgun for turkey or ducks and larger cal for deer,also a bow but you must train to use them. Learn to field dress your catch and to tan a hide how about a fishing pole cannot go wrong there. Do not get overwhelmed stay focused and figure out your needs such as how to start a fire and what back pack should I use, start to hike with it to get trained with it also.

As for a fortification I feel you should have a spot yes but do not fortify it learn to build shelters and be able to leave it quickly to your next site and next cache always be two steps or more ahead.Think higher ground where you have the advantage of seeing further and for protection build into the side of hills like the Vietnam did LOL I think I have gone on and on enough mabe to much LOL we all have callings and all have speacial things to bring to each other,I feel I was trained in allot without my knowledge but hey that is a diffrent subjet for a diffrent day.

This is the best time to be alive and I thank the creator for every day and the gifts he gives me just think we get to live in the time they have written in the past and we are the players in this play I for one do not want to sit on the side lines do you?

peace hang ten

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

i think we amy face similar here in britain soon.. the pine needle info is interesting.. can anyone elaborate further??

[Soul Sequence]

Originally Posted by pineal-pilot-in merkabah

i think we amy face similar here in britain soon.. the pine needle info is interesting.. can anyone elaborate further??

To Quote Waterman
"Pine needles are very dense and hard and IR has a hard time getting signatures throught them. When you are uder trees with needles your heat rises through the needles and cools rapidly as it passes by the needles, and the IR light cannot penetrate the needles verywell. It is something that John Moore talks about." and " If I were to suggest anything I would suggest listening to John Moore at www.thelibertyman.com He is an expert on survival"

[Dantheman62]

I grew up in northern Minnesota and yes there is still land that man never goes to, but to be way out means you need to be way out there!. The best way to look at it is to go back to the indian ways, such as tepees which are very easily picked up and moved. I have spent the night outside in 32 degrees below zero and you can't build a fire big enough to survive, for example our fire was 5 feet across and 5 feet high and it was like there was no fire at all!, so you must be able to contain the heat, hence a tepee. On the other hand I've also gone through 3 hurricanes in south florida with no electricity for over two weeks in 97 degree heat and 90% humidity, the worst part about that is you just sweat and stink but you survive! Guns are a must to hunt and protect and I've got plenty with plenty of ammo also, and none are registered. The easist way to deal with whatever happens is to look back about in the past! If you need light, you light a candle, if you need food, you hunt and grow what's needed, if you need heat and cooking, you use wood, if you need water, hopefully there is a lake or river nearby or at least within a days walk. That's the simplistic way of looking at everything. I recommend not staying in a cave although it would hide any heat seeking stuff, there's only one way in and one way out! So piece of cake, just live like the pioneers did, or indians did!

[Carrie Todd]

Good info. I think it's important to have several contingency plans. If at all possible, especially if you're rural, I think it's a good idea to stay put. You will have access to food (hunting, fishing, farming) and water (streams, ponds, wells if lucky). On that note, I think it would be a good idea to have a bow and arrows. That would be easier to maintain and quieter to attract less attention. Of course, it is only as useful as your, or someone in your family's, ability to use it.
Picking up a survival guide and a manual regarding the properties of plant varieties (for food, medicine, etc) in actual book form is a good idea. If things get really ugly I am in no way counting on having internet access.
This is also why a group of us got together this weekend to share contact info. I think networking with like-minded people in your area is an EXTREMELY good idea. There can be safety in numbers, but only if your numbers are safe...if you know what I mean.