Are we slaves or free-who decides

Northern Boy · 03-04-2010, 09:11 PM

your a precieved free (in your eyes) slave (in theirs) for now

Céline · 03-05-2010, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Boy

your a precieved free (in your eyes) slave (in theirs) for now

Hmm that is not everyones perspective

dj kelly · 03-05-2010, 01:34 AM

Is it even possible for any of us to even difine what freedom realy is, its just a thought process that we all subscribe to , but if you think about it even in freedom as we see it ,there are boundaries , freedom is a differnt concept to each individual, ,my own feelings on this are for true freedom to exist on earth ,all need to raise there conchesness to the exact same level, which of course will surely happen in time, however what freedom will mean, time will only tell i guess. love and light DJ

Zeddo · 03-05-2010, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj kelly

..........however what freedom will mean, time will only tell i guess. love and light DJ

What I like about this thread are the different opinions, but below the surface they are all fairly close.

Thanks for all the answers. Great stuff.

LL&P

Z

justpeter · 03-05-2010, 03:49 PM

I think I might be one of the people you mentioned in your first post Zeddo because I posted a link to the Law of One material and I said that Bill, Kerry and David Wilcock all seemed to endorse it or at least mention it regularly.

So why did I do that?

Well, there are so many posts with links to all kinds of weird and wonderful things on this forum that I don't think everything that is mentioned will interest everyone here. However, since people have signed-up to this forum then I assume they will have an interest in the same, or similar, things as Bill, Kerry and David Wilcock. Therefore I was just trying to point out that this data is in line with the principles of the people mentioned and therefore might resonate with people on this forum.

I was just trying to help, actually, but I do understand your post and I think it's a valid question you ask.

Peter

Peace of mind · 03-05-2010, 04:54 PM

If we all became Jack of all trades and didn’t depend on people to do specific jobs in our society there would be no recessions. If we all learned the basics of farming, building and repair…the governments wouldn’t have the power they have now. In a crisis people will loot and become selfish minded. The system we live in handicaps us, it makes us spoiled, it dumbs us down by letting us place blame on others for not doing a job we can do for self. Just imagine if we were more involved with developing the basic needs of humanity.

Indigenous people operate within a group which everyone in the group is taught all the basics to survival…While our so called civilized groups operate as individuals with limited skills and one profession. Some people don’t even know how to change a flat tire, paint, tighten up a leaky faucet, or change a light bulb…much less plant food, or protect their own land. They depend on others to do it for them by way of payment. Take away their money they will become helpless, their weaknesses will be exposed…all the more reason why some are hesitant in exposing the corruptions in the failed systems…simply because they don’t want to get their own hands dirty.

Freedom is only obtained thru knowledge and know how; empowering yourself to do more gives you more choices, more room to work with, more freedom…

Peace

mudra · 03-05-2010, 05:33 PM

Most of the time our prison are our minds : what we think we can , can't , should or should'nt do .
Our mental process is powerfull but if based on fear it will lock our inherent ability to bring out a balanced viewpoint of our own . The slavery we build ourselves is predominant imo to any outside slavery we might run into . The outside world is a reflection of how much we have trapped ourselves in our mind patterns. To create a change we must start with our own .The total peace we have within ..Once we find it .. Once we experience it then we can bring it to the world .

Love Always
mudra

Love Always
mudra

lovepromoter · 03-06-2010, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudra

Most of the time our prison are our minds : what we think we can , can't , should or should'nt do .
Our mental process is powerfull but if based on fear it will lock our inherent ability to bring out a balanced viewpoint of our own . The slavery we build ourselves is predominant imo to any outside slavery we might run into . The outside world is a reflection of how much we have trapped ourselves in our mind patterns. To create a change we must start with our own .The total peace we have within ..Once we find it .. Once we experience it then we can bring it to the world .

Love Always
mudra

Love Always
mudra

Mudra's awesome!

What is freedom? many think it is having a choice, but what is a choice? but a limitation?

We can only be what we are, and for some seeing their own reflection sends them fleeing.

Its much easier to pretend a truth than to live your truth.

Freedom does not exist in this place, its an ideal that places limitation on others.

Let them give their apple to Bill, or Kerry or anyone they see fit.

This is 'freedom'.

Zeddo · 03-06-2010, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovepromoter

Mudra's awesome!

Its much easier to pretend a truth than to live your truth.

Freedom does not exist in this place, its an ideal that places limitation on others.

Let them give their apple to Bill, or Kerry or anyone they see fit.

This is 'freedom'.

I think that living an untruth (pretending a truth) is far more difficult than to live your own truth. There is a problem, most are scared to be themselves because the precieved truth comes from being indoctrinated from the time we are born, if not before. We are taught a percieved truth in that we need to conform to the mores of society in such a fashion as to meet with acceptable moral codes. One can see how these "truths" fluctuate over time, as in political correct speech, gay marraige etc. (I am choosing the obvious ones here that have changed remarkably over the last 3o years).

True freedom will not place limitations on anyone because with true freedom, one will find true responsibility. With true responsibility it naturally follows that you will put others first. Imagine when that is being done by everyone. This is a spiritual concept more than a physical one. I was using the "apple" as a metaphor for us to question our actions.

Z

Zeddo · 03-06-2010, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justpeter

I think I might be one of the people you mentioned in your first post Zeddo because I posted a link to the Law of One material ...........
I was just trying to help, actually, but I do understand your post and I think it's a valid question you ask.

Peter

Hi Peter

Thanks for not taking what I wrote the wrong way which would have, in retrospect, been easy to do.

LL&P

Z

Kulapops · 03-06-2010, 01:00 AM

Not to comment on the slaves/free because that's such an interesting topic I could write away with that one...

ok.. that's a leading start! so I'll just say this.

It maybe there is no freedom in what happens to us, but that has nothing to do with illuminati etc. Think about it, whatever you choose to do is generalyl your 'best' guess at was is the right thing to do. Which of us, thinking that option 1 is worse than option 2 (when taking everything into account) picks option 1? so our experiences and influences determine our actions, and it's hard to veer from that if at all. However I think we are free to think about everything. We are free to entertain the options, and everything is possible, so there is freedom there, somewhere...

But the thing about your post that interests me most Zeddo, is your reflective question on why do we post, and are we looking for someone's endorsement.

I think that is a very perceptive question. And at it's heart is the possibility that every post we make is looking for endorsement from someone. Who isn't pleased when someone's read their thread, or someone comments on their post?

In the end even that is perhaps a mask.. to a deeper idea that really, each time we post, maybe we're looking for self-endorsement? Self-affirment of our worthiness.

Which in itself is a paradox, because which of us, compared to the whole of Avalon membership of postings, is important (in a quantitative way?) In the grand scheme of things? And yet, at the same time we're all incredibly important, unique and infinitely special.

I ask myself a lot what I am doing here?, and what are my motivations for posting. If I am just posting to be seen, or to belong, or to stand out, or to harmonise, or to be liked, or to encourage, or to help, or to shock?

Ultimately, as I develop, I hope my need to engage will decrease, or at least that my reflections will become calmer and less with a 'charge'. I want to 'be' more, and say less... but for now, it's hard to shut me up

Great question Zeddo. You got me thinking.

Majorion · 03-06-2010, 01:29 AM

In my opinion, freedom is variable, depending on your physical location (different laws in different nations), your relationships, your duties and responsibilities such as work. With some things you are absolutely free by every sense of the definition, and with other things you're not and one knows it. The larger question is whether the unfair system this world operates on actually rids you of all and/or any freedom in your life, the answer - in most cases - is probably no. Because that would suggest that dreams never (or don't) come true, when we know they do, but just aren't as easily fulfilled and that is our problem, we know its not easy and we often want the easy way. The way I see it actually is you get opportunities and are constantly offered certain choices in life, sort of as a test, and although your choices are limited and even the freedom is limited, you still ultimately get to make that final choice, and if the majority of your choices were good then it will reflect later in life, same as the bad, your happiness factor being the key here, that's what we want from freedom; to be lead through freedom to a life of happiness. Though this issue is such a riddle because everyone has a different opinion and life has treated everyone differently, so, thats why I say its variable, it depends mainly on the conditions people have been subjected to; willingly or unwillingly, in life.

Zeddo · 03-06-2010, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulapops

Great question Zeddo. You got me thinking.

and I think, that in a nutshell, is what it is all about. To get thinking just a little deeper, a little longer.

I head George Carlin say in one of his shows "We need to teach the kids to question". You can't get better than that!

LL&P

Z

03-04-2010, 09:11 PM	#1
Northern Boy Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: On this Rock Posts: 1,390	Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides your a precieved free (in your eyes) slave (in theirs) for now

03-05-2010, 01:34 AM	#3
dj kelly Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: England Posts: 27	Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides Is it even possible for any of us to even difine what freedom realy is, its just a thought process that we all subscribe to , but if you think about it even in freedom as we see it ,there are boundaries , freedom is a differnt concept to each individual, ,my own feelings on this are for true freedom to exist on earth ,all need to raise there conchesness to the exact same level, which of course will surely happen in time, however what freedom will mean, time will only tell i guess. love and light DJ

03-05-2010, 03:49 PM	#5
justpeter Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: UK Posts: 55	Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides I think I might be one of the people you mentioned in your first post Zeddo because I posted a link to the Law of One material and I said that Bill, Kerry and David Wilcock all seemed to endorse it or at least mention it regularly. So why did I do that? Well, there are so many posts with links to all kinds of weird and wonderful things on this forum that I don't think everything that is mentioned will interest everyone here. However, since people have signed-up to this forum then I assume they will have an interest in the same, or similar, things as Bill, Kerry and David Wilcock. Therefore I was just trying to point out that this data is in line with the principles of the people mentioned and therefore might resonate with people on this forum. I was just trying to help, actually, but I do understand your post and I think it's a valid question you ask. Peter

03-05-2010, 04:54 PM	#6
Peace of mind Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The uncharted consciousness Posts: 311	Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides If we all became Jack of all trades and didn’t depend on people to do specific jobs in our society there would be no recessions. If we all learned the basics of farming, building and repair…the governments wouldn’t have the power they have now. In a crisis people will loot and become selfish minded. The system we live in handicaps us, it makes us spoiled, it dumbs us down by letting us place blame on others for not doing a job we can do for self. Just imagine if we were more involved with developing the basic needs of humanity. Indigenous people operate within a group which everyone in the group is taught all the basics to survival…While our so called civilized groups operate as individuals with limited skills and one profession. Some people don’t even know how to change a flat tire, paint, tighten up a leaky faucet, or change a light bulb…much less plant food, or protect their own land. They depend on others to do it for them by way of payment. Take away their money they will become helpless, their weaknesses will be exposed…all the more reason why some are hesitant in exposing the corruptions in the failed systems…simply because they don’t want to get their own hands dirty. Freedom is only obtained thru knowledge and know how; empowering yourself to do more gives you more choices, more room to work with, more freedom… Peace

03-05-2010, 05:33 PM	#7
mudra Avalon Spiritual Mother Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: belgium Posts: 4,919	Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides Most of the time our prison are our minds : what we think we can , can't , should or should'nt do . Our mental process is powerfull but if based on fear it will lock our inherent ability to bring out a balanced viewpoint of our own . The slavery we build ourselves is predominant imo to any outside slavery we might run into . The outside world is a reflection of how much we have trapped ourselves in our mind patterns. To create a change we must start with our own .The total peace we have within ..Once we find it .. Once we experience it then we can bring it to the world . Love Always mudra Love Always mudra

03-06-2010, 01:00 AM	#11
Kulapops Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Torbay, UK Posts: 704	Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides Not to comment on the slaves/free because that's such an interesting topic I could write away with that one... ok.. that's a leading start! so I'll just say this. It maybe there is no freedom in what happens to us, but that has nothing to do with illuminati etc. Think about it, whatever you choose to do is generalyl your 'best' guess at was is the right thing to do. Which of us, thinking that option 1 is worse than option 2 (when taking everything into account) picks option 1? so our experiences and influences determine our actions, and it's hard to veer from that if at all. However I think we are free to think about everything. We are free to entertain the options, and everything is possible, so there is freedom there, somewhere... But the thing about your post that interests me most Zeddo, is your reflective question on why do we post, and are we looking for someone's endorsement. I think that is a very perceptive question. And at it's heart is the possibility that every post we make is looking for endorsement from someone. Who isn't pleased when someone's read their thread, or someone comments on their post? In the end even that is perhaps a mask.. to a deeper idea that really, each time we post, maybe we're looking for self-endorsement? Self-affirment of our worthiness. Which in itself is a paradox, because which of us, compared to the whole of Avalon membership of postings, is important (in a quantitative way?) In the grand scheme of things? And yet, at the same time we're all incredibly important, unique and infinitely special. I ask myself a lot what I am doing here?, and what are my motivations for posting. If I am just posting to be seen, or to belong, or to stand out, or to harmonise, or to be liked, or to encourage, or to help, or to shock? Ultimately, as I develop, I hope my need to engage will decrease, or at least that my reflections will become calmer and less with a 'charge'. I want to 'be' more, and say less... but for now, it's hard to shut me up Great question Zeddo. You got me thinking.

03-06-2010, 01:29 AM	#12
Majorion Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: ∞ Posts: 654	Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides In my opinion, freedom is variable, depending on your physical location (different laws in different nations), your relationships, your duties and responsibilities such as work. With some things you are absolutely free by every sense of the definition, and with other things you're not and one knows it. The larger question is whether the unfair system this world operates on actually rids you of all and/or any freedom in your life, the answer - in most cases - is probably no. Because that would suggest that dreams never (or don't) come true, when we know they do, but just aren't as easily fulfilled and that is our problem, we know its not easy and we often want the easy way. The way I see it actually is you get opportunities and are constantly offered certain choices in life, sort of as a test, and although your choices are limited and even the freedom is limited, you still ultimately get to make that final choice, and if the majority of your choices were good then it will reflect later in life, same as the bad, your happiness factor being the key here, that's what we want from freedom; to be lead through freedom to a life of happiness. Though this issue is such a riddle because everyone has a different opinion and life has treated everyone differently, so, thats why I say its variable, it depends mainly on the conditions people have been subjected to; willingly or unwillingly, in life.