Consciousness, Christian Theology, and the Revelation of John

[kriya]

Originally Posted by greybeard

He claims that the Bible and various other Holy Books calibrate highly but that "Revelations" is of a very low calibration and was actually channeled from the lower astral and is not concordant with the teachings of Christ which are of course valid.

Oooooooh, yes Chris a very controversial statement indeed!

In my view revelations is highly allegorical and is actually symbolic of a very high state of consciousness through vision. IMHO not a channeled piece of writing but the revelation of John, who I have been told was Jesus' greatest disciple (by which I mean he had the greatest realisations of all the disciples)

Love,

Kriya

PS Yogananda said Revelations was pure kriya yoga (or what can happen once its mastered)

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by kriya

IMHO not a channeled piece of writing but the revelation of John, who I have been told was Jesus' greatest disciple (by which I mean he had the greatest realisations of all the disciples)

Well, of course, that is the story which is told by the male disciples of Jesus.

But, in the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Philip, as I recall, the apostles acknowledge that Jesus loved Mary more than he loved them, "kissing her often on her mouth" (not lips, mouth).

In other words, both John and Mary received the Vision of the "Son of man"; but it was the Revelation of John which became a part of the Christian canon, whereas the Gospel of Mary was considered to be heretical; and, so, had to be hidden to prevent its complete destruction; although significant parts of the Gospel of Mary are, in fact, missing.

[kriya]

Originally Posted by 4Q529

Well, of course, that is the story which is told by the male disciples of Jesus.

But, in the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Philip, as I recall, the apostles acknowledge that Jesus loved Mary more than he loved them, "kissing her often on her mouth" (not lips, mouth).

In other words, both John and Mary received the Vision of the "Son of man"; but it was the Revelation of John which became a part of the Christian canon, whereas the Gospel of Mary was considered to be heretical; and, so, had to be hidden to prevent its complete destruction; although significant parts of the Gospel of Mary are, in fact, missing.

Yes I believe Mary Magdalene had great realisations also.

[greybeard]

Originally Posted by kriya

Oooooooh, yes Chris a very controversial statement indeed!

In my view revelations is highly allegorical and is actually symbolic of a very high state of consciousness through vision. IMHO not a channeled piece of writing but the revelation of John, who I have been told was Jesus' greatest disciple (by which I mean he had the greatest realisations of all the disciples)

Love,

Kriya

PS Yoga nanda said Revelations was pure kriya yoga (or what can happen once its mastered)

Hi Kriya.
I honestly dont know.
But I believe Dr Hawkins does.
Check him out, your open minded

http://www.veritaspub.com/

.

While he doesn't need verification, he just knows, he get every statement he makes checked rigorously and scientifically by students using the Kinesolgy muscle testing technique which was given credibility through the work of Dr Diamond.

You will find Dr Hawkins love of God and devotion to truth inspiring.

Love Chris

[Gnosis5]

Hello Chris,

Yes, part of my diagnostic readings is periodically getting a David Hawkins reading. Mine went up 90 points since I started my clearing work and got my first reading. The interesting thing that verified it for me is that at the time I hit my high mark I was intensely interested in the gospel of Thomas, and I found out later that its rating was exactly as mine. The points above me, which I was reaching for, were in the Buddhic range.

There is a David Hawkins forum that has ratings for a long list of books, music, art: http://www.level-of-consciousness.org/. Although I don't see anymore postings on it, the books rating is very interesting.

I would be interested to know how Christian Science healing technology rates.

A fine distinction to keep in mind is that even though some books or music may have an overall low rating, there might be some jewels in there nonetheless, but would call for more sorting and discernment. I used to call it my "truth governor" :-)

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by kriya

Oooooooh, yes Chris a very controversial statement indeed!

In my view revelations is highly allegorical and is actually symbolic of a very high state of consciousness through vision. IMHO not a channeled piece of writing but the revelation of John, who I have been told was Jesus' greatest disciple (by which I mean he had the greatest realisations of all the disciples)

Love,

Kriya

PS Yogananda said Revelations was pure kriya yoga (or what can happen once its mastered)

I met Yogananda in his disembodied state and personally I would rate Babaji higher then him. Yogananda's autobiography was a milestone for me in stepping outside the confines of my Christian indoctrination and moving toward a more understandable and practicable spiritual technology. However, when I connected with him in his disembodied state I found him personally somewhat manipulative and he left me in a bit of a huff (to say the least).

I agree with the fellas who use Hawkins' method who several of them independently rated Revelations. However, there may be something in the Revelations that might rate very highly. Hawkins is not the only one that gives a low rating to the book of Revelations. However, do your own tests.

If Revelations were thrown out of the NT that would not take anything away from the NT, in fact, it would shine brighter IMHO. The main focus of the NT, IMHO, should be the actual TOOLS that were given to Christians, such as prayer, meditation, praise, fasting, group agreements, connecting with higher self (holy spirit), processing entities and spirits, and some hearty admonitions.

My two cents

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

Hawkins is not the only one that gives a low rating to the book of Revelations. However, do your own tests.

As previously stated, the only one who can have any real understanding of the Revelation of John is someone who has personally received both the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the Memory of Creation. But that also pertains to the over-all significance of the Revelation of John. Thus, any attempts to 'test' the Revelation of John for its Truth originate in the thoughts of either the "beast of the sea" consciousness of the "self" or the "beast of the earth" consciousness of the 'thinker'--both of which are, in and of themselves, aspects of the 'fallen' consciousness which has, in effect, created itself rather than being Created 'by and in the image of God'.

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

If Revelations were thrown out of the NT that would not take anything away from the NT, in fact, it would shine brighter IMHO. The main focus of the NT, IMHO, should be the actual TOOLS that were given to Christians, such as prayer, meditation, praise, fasting, group agreements, connecting with higher self (holy spirit), processing entities and spirits, and some hearty admonitions.

My two cents

This ignores the direct connection between the Revelation of John and Sura 27:82 of the Koran's mention of the "beast of the earth"--thus establishing the continuity of the Revelations received by Jesus and Mohammed; which, if widely publicized, would sharply diminish the potential for violence between Christians and Muslims; but which would probably, on the other hand, impoverish many thousands of both Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities'.

And so, rather than suffering such a 'terrible' fate, these religious 'authorities' prefer to continue to lie--thereby, however, pushing this civilization towards horrors far beyond their most horrific nightmares.

[greybeard]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

I agree with the fellas who use Hawkins' method who several of them independently rated Revelations. However, there may be something in the Revelations that might rate very highly. Hawkins is not the only one that gives a low rating to the book of Revelations. However, do your own tests.

If Revelations were thrown out of the NT that would not take anything away from the NT, in fact, it would shine brighter IMHO. The main focus of the NT, IMHO, should be the actual TOOLS that were given to Christians, such as prayer, meditation, praise, fasting, group agreements, connecting with higher self (holy spirit), processing entities and spirits, and some hearty admonitions.

My two cents

Surprise surprise I have a book to hand with the very calibrations, though for me its not about calibrations, its about the teaching flowing through Dr Hawkins.
Calibrations are given by Dr Hawkins so that spiritual seekers can choose teachings and teachers that are life supporting. ( Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing)
Thats why the Map of consciousness was developed.

Copied from the book
"Reality Spirituality and Modern Man"
Dr David R Hawkins M.D Ph.D

600 is the level of enlightenment, Jesus in the body calibrated at 1000 on a logarithmic scale. Archangels 50000. God infinite. There are levels of enlightenment up to 1000.

( its not possible for the human body to accept a higher spiritual energy that 1000)

Anyway that just puts into perspective.

Genisis Lamsa bible 660
Lamsa bible (minus the Old testament and book of Revelations but including Genesis Psalms and Proverbs) 880
King James Bible from the Greek 475
New testament King James version after the deletion of the book of Revelations 790

Upanisheds 970
Bhagavad Gita 910
Trinity concept 945
Gospel of St Thomas 660.

The calibrations were tested independently using the muscle testing technique.

Chris

[Gnosis5]

I believe the Rig Veda also rated very highly. There are a few practices and books I like and I would like someone to independently give them a Hawkins rating. As I said, when I had a yearning for the gospel of St. Thomas I found I rated the same as the gospel does, which was a 90 points gain in less than o ne year of some tenacious and dedicated clearing work, but I have a whole list that my psychic friend checks me for and that gives me more of a balanced look at overall changes.

Say, Chris, maybe we should move this over to another thread

I do not wish to get into a debate with anyone over the enlightenment level of Revelations. I am in the practice of changing futures so I would at best view it as an agent of change.

[14 Chakras]

From my perspective,

Truth is spherical. Non-linear.

As soon as we try and fit Truth in a linear understanding, it's a belief. Beliefs are our prisons. Truth that sets us Free is in Being, not believing.

Mind over matter yes indeed, but not the believing mind or the thinking mind, rather the Being mind, the Christ mind that resides within us. I let the Father Mother within Be the doer and I and my Father Mother are One. Meaning: the thinker does not be, I do not do, I simply BE, Be ME ~ I will Be that I will Be.

For me, there is no outer teaching that is perfect. Whatever helps us have an a-ha moment is perfect. As soon as we turn an outer teaching into a belief, I suggest that it causes more harm than good generally speaking. Truth is BE-yond belief.

For me, revelations hides many Truths that will one day be much more exposed. But the bible is far from "God's Holy Word", rather it is the dead word. God's Holy Word is written in the Now in our Heart. It is the Living Word.

Whereas words on paper can inspire if we let them take us higher and seek the inner Truth, but more often than not imprison us in ego illusions as we are often blind to the inner and esoteric Truth behind the outer exoteric words. And of course, the bible that is available today has very little outer value, but yes much inner for those willing to read between the lines, as I would suggest most of the more empowering elements were removed long ago. The elite of the days did not want the true message of Christ: That we are all Christ Beings when we choose to Be, and the death, suffering and victim consciousness are all illusions of our own making that we can transcend by connecting to God within us and awakening to our True identity: Suns and Daughters of God.

Truth should be experienced. Truth is a River of Life, not a belief. Gnosis is the only Truth.

However, when we do have the experience of Truth, we must be careful not to turn it into another linear belief. The reality is, that Truth is infinite, and there are infininte different Ways of interpreting an experience. Whatever we 'believe' will color our experience, and often we will mistakenly 'believe' if only everyone else believed what we believe we expirienced, then the world would be fixed. However, the reality is, that the experience of Truth, Gnosis with it, eternally Now, is the only thing that will bring enlightenment and Peace to Earth. Beliefs are dualistic by nature. Truth is Being. So let us surrender to Truth and have our own internal experiences that help raise us higher into the Truth that sets us free

And it is great to share our experiences as well, as they help us all come up higher.

[waitinginthewings]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

From my perspective,

Truth is spherical. Non-linear.

As soon as we try and fit Truth in a linear understanding, it's a belief. Beliefs are our prisons. Truth that sets us Free is in Being, not believing.

Mind over matter yes indeed, but not the believing mind or the thinking mind, rather the Being mind, the Christ mind that resides within us. I let the Father Mother within Be the doer and I and my Father Mother are One. Meaning: the thinker does not be, I do not do, I simply BE, Be ME ~ I will Be that I will Be.

For me, there is no outer teaching that is perfect. Whatever helps us have an a-ha moment is perfect. As soon as we turn an outer teaching into a belief, I suggest that it causes more harm than good generally speaking. Truth is BE-yond belief.

For me, revelations hides many Truths that will one day be much more exposed. But the bible is far from "God's Holy Word", rather it is the dead word. God's Holy Word is written in the Now in our Heart. It is the Living Word.

Whereas words on paper can inspire if we let them take us higher and seek the inner Truth, but more often than not imprison us in ego illusions as we are often blind to the inner and esoteric Truth behind the outer exoteric words. And of course, the bible that is available today has very little outer value, but yes much inner for those willing to read between the lines, as I would suggest most of the more empowering elements were removed long ago.

Truth should be experienced. Truth is a River of Life, not a belief. Gnosis is the only Truth.

However, when we do have the experience of Truth, we must be careful not to turn it into another linear belief. The reality is, that Truth is infinite, and there are infininte different Ways of interpreting an experience. Whatever we 'believe' will color our experience, and often we will mistakenly 'believe' if only everyone else believed what we believe we expirienced, then the world would be fixed. However, the reality is, that the experience of Truth, Gnosis with it, eternally Now, is the only thing that will bring enlightenment and Peace to Earth. Beliefs are dualistic by nature. Truth is Being. So let us surrender to Truth and have our own internal experiences that help raise us higher into the Truth that sets us free

And it is great to share our experiences as well, as they help us all come up higher.

Why do you keep saying this in all of your posts?

[14 Chakras]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

[/COLOR]

Why do you keep saying this in all of your posts?

Interesting question ~

In this case, I said: "helps us call up higher" by sharing non-dualistic experiences we receive, such as the one that 4Q529 shared, as they continually add to the puzzle of Truth.

When someone has a non-dualistic experience, and they share it, and then we hear of many other people's as well, we can start to put the puzzle together in terms of higher Truths. Most people, many people, have non-dualistic experiences, and when we share, we all learn a bit, we all come up higher. After that it all comes to interpretation which varies widely and generally ends up reinforcing a different 'belief' system in each one of us, but the Truth is beyond thought, beyond belief. So ideally, we each continue to seek and find non-dualistic experiences and in that way we do not form beliefs, rather we surrender to Truth.


If this "helps us all come up higher" has been used in other posts, it is because I believe it is now time for humanity to awaken to their own Divine nature and to the reality that God lives inside of us and provides perfectly for us, including our protection, fulfillment of needs, and highest inspiration when we connect to the Divine within us. However, it is not 1 or 2 people that need to move higher in consciousness now. It is all people. Earth is Ascending and each person must make shifts in their consciousness into the more interconnected empowered reality in order to make the shift.

So us communing here, discussing, being open to higher Truth's helps the whole as we shift our consciousness, we help shift Earth's collective consciousness which is what needs to happen Now.

~ Espavo ~ (<Lemurian for: Thank you for taking your Power)

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

I believe it is now time for humanity to awaken to their own Divine nature and to the reality that God lives inside of us and provides perfectly for us, including our protection, fulfillment of needs, and highest inspiration when we connect to the Divine within us.

hear hear

Be Still and Know that I Am God



the world would be a pretty harmonious place

if not for

I Me and Mine

[Gnosis5]

Back in my primordial bible reading days, before I joined a group , when I did read the Bible I read it alone in the privacy of my home and respectfully and with a sense of connection. What I experienced is that whatever I needed to know for my own life at that time, well, the words would "light up" on the page and I would be "convicted". I wrote down those passages on a small card and carried it with me -- I meant business because I knew I needed higher guidance.

I can still recall some of those verses, for example, "God is light and within him there is neither darkness nor shadow of turning...", and my lifetime mantra is "All things work together for good...".

When Jesus said ye are my brothers and sisters, and you can do greater things... my heart soared. There are some Christian groups that would like to diminish that or even take that away from me !!???!!!

[waitinginthewings]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

Interesting question ~

In this case, I said: "helps us call up higher" by sharing non-dualistic experiences we receive, such as the one that 4Q529 shared, as they continually add to the puzzle of Truth.

When someone has a non-dualistic experience, and they share it, and then we hear of many other people's as well, we can start to put the puzzle together in terms of higher Truths. Most people, many people, have non-dualistic experiences, and when we share, we all learn a bit, we all come up higher. After that it all comes to interpretation which varies widely and generally ends up reinforcing a different 'belief' system in each one of us, but the Truth is beyond thought, beyond belief. So ideally, we each continue to seek and find non-dualistic experiences and in that way we do not form beliefs, rather we surrender to Truth.


If this "helps us all come up higher" has been used in other posts, it is because I believe it is now time for humanity to awaken to their own Divine nature and to the reality that God lives inside of us and provides perfectly for us, including our protection, fulfillment of needs, and highest inspiration when we connect to the Divine within us. However, it is not 1 or 2 people that need to move higher in consciousness now. It is all people. Earth is Ascending and each person must make shifts in their consciousness into the more interconnected empowered reality in order to make the shift.

So us communing here, discussing, being open to higher Truth's helps the whole as we shift our consciousness, we help shift Earth's collective consciousness which is what needs to happen Now.

~ Espavo ~ (<Lemurian for: Thank you for taking your Power)

Thank you for your explaination.......in my own terminology I would say, we all need to raise our vibration. Through meditation & paying attention to our ego mind, living an ethetical life, right livelihood, developing kindness & compassion towards ourselves & others is a good place to begin. There are no free rides, we have to do the work on ourselves to raise our vibration.

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

Thank you for your explaination.......in my own terminology I would say, we all need to raise our vibration. Through meditation & paying attention to our ego mind, living an ethetical life, right livelihood, developing kindness & compassion towards ourselves & others is a good place to begin. There are no free rides, we have to do the work on ourselves to raise our vibration.

Yes, yes, yes, and I am changing mine more than I am concerned about making others change. I am also working on not maligning someone else's senior stable reality -- that would be spiritual immaturity on my part, an inability to see the whole trek of spiritual development. I apologize that I offended anyone with a hot headed remark.

[annemirri]

a.

[kriya]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

I met Yogananda in his disembodied state and personally I would rate Babaji higher then him. Yogananda's autobiography was a milestone for me in stepping outside the confines of my Christian indoctrination and moving toward a more understandable and practicable spiritual technology. However, when I connected with him in his disembodied state I found him personally somewhat manipulative and he left me in a bit of a huff (to say the least).

Please clarify this statement. What happened exactly? If you were manipulated you didn't meet Yogananda, as God conscious beings are not negative. They are just seeking your liberation.

Love,

Kriya

[Steven]

There are so many interpretation of the apocalypse, many are interesting and valid.

I remember a brasilian theologian, who was very down to Earth with his approach. That is why I always liked him. First, he remembered the historical context in which these texts were written. The very first followers of Christ were slain. But at the same time, the events around Christ were so strong in the people's consciousness that the movement was increasing. The letters were written to the first twelve most important group of christian. They were written in a symbolical middle eastern way to be only decoded by the first christian initiate and avoid roman persecution. The beast was an analogy to the roman empire and the lady, to the church.

According to this theologian, these messages were not talking about our time, but rather the evolution and persecution time of the first churches. The adoption of chritianity by the roman empire, the corruption of the faith by foreign influence, the schisms and the final transformation (liberation) of Christianity.


On the other hand, I think the white European Elite of our world (Vatican, City of London, Washington DC) are taking this text integrally. They also might have change it to fit their plan for humanity. And use their technological "toys" to create events that fit the description of the text, following it like a script.

Namaste, Steven

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by kriya

Please clarify this statement. What happened exactly? If you were manipulated you didn't meet Yogananda, as God conscious beings are not negative. They are just seeking your liberation.

Love,

Kriya

You cannot make me change my reality with forceful statements and thus I have a "no response" to your request for clarification.

[kriya]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

You cannot make me change my reality with forceful statements and thus I have a "no response" to your request for clarification.

A thousand apologies to you if I sounded forceful, that was not my intention. but as you can see from my avatar, Yogananda is my Guru and it upsets me to think that you may have had a bad experience which you are attributing to him.

After all this is a public forum and I have a duty to defend his name.

Your comment about Babaji i think is right. He is on a par with Jesus. Great realised souls.

Sorry if i offended you. But that comment struck my heart!

Love,

Kriya

[annemirri]

[a.