Poor Gary Mckinnon

[King Lear]

Stand up and be counted...

[murnut]

Is violence really the way?

What's with the guns?

[King Lear]

They're filled with "Love"!

[seeing clearly]

Originally Posted by murnut

Is violence really the way?

What's with the guns?

YES

the only way to precipate change is violence

but it must be prepared, laid out, planned,
right down to the most infinite details

and then the violence will only be quick and fierce
and a BLOODLESS coup is accomplished.

If one faction doesnt do it another will when
the ruling body is toppling and rotten.

several entities are right now plotting OT
of American nation.

study history !


`


,

[murnut]

Then you trade the current PtB for new PtB that are no better.

So the point would be what exactly?

[seeing clearly]

Originally Posted by murnut

Then you trade the current PtB for new PtB that are no better.

So the point would be what exactly?

***********




*************************

to get in the act and try to create a better social construct

and you suggest what...
to sit back and do nothing?

or go to a neutral location and criticize
all who get involved??

IF we do not take a stand for something

we will be forced to live in the stand of
views we find abhorrent !

not to get into SOME activity to make life
better is to invite stagnation/death.

CREATE change
PLAN it to be better
and it will get better

not all at once, but noticeably so.

keep practicing until it gets waaaay better

and then,

keep practicing.


NO LIMITS.



.

[murnut]

seeing clearly,

I agree with your post.

I am just suggesting that breaking the law, specifically hacking, is not the way to accomplish what we seek.

Once we decide, what laws are right and wrong as it relates our own particualr views, it is a slippery slope that can only escalate.

We have so little credibility already.


Oh.....and violence is not the way.

[motov]

is it just me or????
Gary have try`d to unveil a crime by the black ops parties with another crime by hacking, i got a problem with that, if these forces are to be disposed it should be done via whistle blowers and so forth, and not by sinking down to their level and do crime to expose crime.
i think Gary is a person that are taking to much heat for this then he should, but a crime is a crime anyways....

criminal behavior is for lo life`s and not for serious investigators...

[seeing clearly]

Originally Posted by murnut

seeing clearly,

I agree with your post.

I am just suggesting that breaking the law, specifically hacking, is not the way to accomplish what we seek.

Once we decide, what laws are right and wrong as it relates our own particualr views, it is a slippery slope that can only escalate.

We have so little credibility already.


Oh.....and violence is not the way.

***************************



If a tyranny has set up laws that make a playing field with trap doors we can stay on that playing field in anxious attempts to avoid the inevitable trap door to our own demise or use " ANY MEANS NECSSARY "
to create change.

If animals are locked in cages you want to FREE them even if you get caught and go to jail.

since all humans are in one huge invisible cage we must use what ever actions we can to get free, and we do have more than ONE life to give up to get all humanity FREE !


or we bow to the current rulership

As a female I cannot do that anymore.......!

Unjust laws not made with the consent of the people are to be walked
over to get to the chamber where we again make laws for US and not an elite!


Uranus planet of revo lush un is powerful in my chart , cantcha feel it !?


I am not trying to make anyone a rev ol ushun erie here as I wish to keep respectful all round but ...


OOOPS..

BS ! YES I AM!

come stand in the line of resistance!

just look at apppeasment and where it gets you.

I can tell you stories about the justice system and keeping with
in the laws all day , and you will never sleep good again.

will you stand on laws made to tighten the yoke around your neck??

or start acting now and to perdition with laws made to keep us
bound to a Master not of our own choosing.

we call for a REAL leader,

one WE choose !

not efffete elites who live on the beaches of Baku and eat
the rarest Beluga and keep hareems of women and children
stolen from Western cities for slavery to perverted desires.

and I know many here know what I am speaking of !

If people could really stand together it would never need to become
violent...

but as people will NOT stand together it takes a handful of very dedicated Folks to make as bloodless rev ol ushun as possible as
is done often in history and is bloodlesscoup.

We are fast approaching that level of BOIL and frogs are trying to jump out
of it.
Now there is no cool place to jump to so the young Folks will simply go wilding and be needlessly killed in the streets.

Wiser heads must make the great flip called political coup
or we will have many years of CIVIL WAR in American again.


Cycles do go as cycles do go.

s

[murnut]

Well then...we do disagree.

What you suggest just puts us in a new cage.

[seeing clearly]

Originally Posted by murnut

Well then...we do disagree.

What you suggest just puts us in a new cage.

*******************************




finally found a quote that was sticking in back of my mind

I was looking for Jefferson as he said something similar
but this will do:


On the Duty to Rebel

"If, by the instrument of governmental power,
a people is being led toward its destruction,
then rebellion is not only the right of every
member of such a people—it is his duty."

**********************************************


and it is time now for all who still resist that yoke to do whatever
is POSSIBLE to do our duty. If we can only educate ourselves and
others,

so be it...........

if we are able to do more active participation it is right to
do so and hacking is a revolutionary act.

,

[shaundelear]

Been watching this develop and good arguments that have ensued.

To the "he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"
I am dissapointed.
Surely moraly he does not deserve the years of torment for breaking ******** laws that aply to virtual crime- it is not real.
He could have mugged a pensioner on pension day and got less grief.
If the system is as corrupt as it seems why should a citizen be squeaky clean and obey?surely exposing the corruption is a higher purpose.

Its a different set of rules for the rulers -they just do what they want.

Wonder if the extradition receipts come back at $700 billion?

The UK gov handed over Gary when they know the States is being run by crooks/war mongers/terrorists and blasphemers.What does that say?
"God bless America?" -God help us from America/n law/lawyers.

To all the posts on Garys side "tob job"
Poor Garys' mum ,keep going.
The idea for the thread was to get a little bit of empathy for Gary.
I liked the way he came across in the interviews.
To put him in jail is a crime in it's self ,is he a danger ?
is it worth the expense?
NO send him home to his family .

[seeing clearly]

Originally Posted by shaundelear

Been watching this develop and good arguments that have ensued.

To the "he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"
I am dissapointed.
Surely moraly he does not deserve the years of torment for breaking ******** laws that aply to virtual crime- it is not real.
He could have mugged a pensioner on pension day and got less grief.
If the system is as corrupt as it seems why should a citizen be squeaky clean and obey?surely exposing the corruption is a higher purpose.

Its a different set of rules for the rulers -they just do what they want.

Wonder if the extradition receipts come back at $700 billion?

The UK gov handed over Gary when they know the States is being run by crooks/war mongers/terrorists and blasphemers.What does that say?
"God bless America?" -God help us from America/n law/lawyers.

To all the posts on Garys side "tob job"
Poor Garys' mum ,keep going.
The idea for the thread was to get a little bit of empathy for Gary.
I liked the way he came across in the interviews.
To put him in jail is a crime in it's self ,is he a danger ?
is it worth the expense?
NO send him home to his family .

*********************************************

a very clear view and well stated !




.

[murnut]

Originally Posted by shaundelear

Been watching this develop and good arguments that have ensued.

To the "he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"
I am dissapointed.
Surely moraly he does not deserve the years of torment for breaking ******** laws that aply to virtual crime- it is not real.
He could have mugged a pensioner on pension day and got less grief.
If the system is as corrupt as it seems why should a citizen be squeaky clean and obey?surely exposing the corruption is a higher purpose.

Its a different set of rules for the rulers -they just do what they want.

Wonder if the extradition receipts come back at $700 billion?

The UK gov handed over Gary when they know the States is being run by crooks/war mongers/terrorists and blasphemers.What does that say?
"God bless America?" -God help us from America/n law/lawyers.

To all the posts on Garys side "tob job"
Poor Garys' mum ,keep going.
The idea for the thread was to get a little bit of empathy for Gary.
I liked the way he came across in the interviews.
To put him in jail is a crime in it's self ,is he a danger ?
is it worth the expense?
NO send him home to his family .

Hey yeah...great post....maybe we should all stop paying our mortgages, since it only supports the evil PtB.

Hacking is not a crime, just as long as it is for ufo's.....or whatever we can make up.

Good luck UFO vigilantes!

No wonder we are considered the fringe, and are never taken seriously.

I am sorry for Gary and his family....6mos in jail would have been horrible.

Gary has one person to blame, himself.

[anonypony]

Thank you King Lear for being the humour king and keeping us smiling...
P.S. who is 'the third man' from the left?

Originally Posted by King Lear

Stand up and be counted...

[anonypony]

"he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"

That is just it. HE DIDN'T! Throughout all the legal comings and goings till this moment, all that was discussed in the courts is the law itself.

Gary was accused, his crimes alleged, but NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER WAS SUBMITTED and he had not once the chance to refute it!

The questions the court system was deliberating was: should Gary be extradited under the new extradition treaty, which by the way, was only ratified by both sides in 2007. So while most of these legal steps dealing with this point were going on, the treaty was only sighed by the UK.

Like a lamb to the slaughter....

[anonypony]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/22/hacking.usa

A vindictive sort of justice

The US authorities are so desperate to extradite my son that they have changed the law. Now he faces 60 years in jail
Janis Sharp

Monday September 22 2008 11:30 BST
Article history

Any day now, my son, Gary McKinnon, could face extradition from Britain to the United States, where he would stand trial for hacking into US government computers and could face a sentence of up to 60 years.
Gary has recently been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, which is why I and his family and his many friends and supporters around the world are arguing that he should be allowed to stay in the UK and face the courts in the country where the offence – if offence there was – was committed.
The US authorities waited two years to call for Gary's arrest because of a then-unratified, unsigned extradition treaty between the two countries, which would make it easier for them to have a British citizen sent for trial in the US. Yet, when he was first arrested in London, six years ago now, Gary was told he would probably get a sentence of community service for his hacking activities.
He naively admitted computer misuse before he had engaged a lawyer and without a lawyer even being present. We were still unaware at that time that he had Asperger's syndrome.
Gary gained no leniency for his honesty and on the contrary, his extradition has been relentlessly pursued by the British and American authorities, despite the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) declining to prosecute him in Britain. This attitude will hardly encourage British citizens to come clean regarding any crimes they may have committed. If no leniency or consideration is given when a person accused of a crime immediately and openly tells the truth, there is little point in them admitting to anything.
The CPS's decision not to to prosecute Gary here was clearly made to allow the Americans to arrest him two-and-a-half years later, once the one-sided extradition treaty was introduced and then made retrospective.
In addition, in order to indict Gary, the US authorities had to claim a specific amount of financial damage. Gary has always denied causing damage and without proof of such, the US could not prosecute him. Just a month ago the US prosecutors stated in an interview that once Gary was extradited, the most difficult thing to prove would be the damage!
Several weeks ago the goalposts were moved yet again when the US introduced a new law whereby no proof of damage was required where military computers were concerned. For the American law to then have been conveniently changed at such a crucial time does little to give us any faith in such a legal system.

There is a London demonstration outside the US embassy, scheduled for 4pm on September 28 in Grosvenor Square. See the campaign website for more details.

[anonypony]

New YouTube video - An interview with Rasagy

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JykjcYWdB9o

An interview with Rasagy

In late September a group of concerned people came together outside the American Embassy in London, to highlight the plight of Gary McKinnon, recently confirmed as having Aspergers Syndrome, a form of Autism.
McKinnon faces extradition to the USA for alleged damage to various computer systems operated by the US military.
The demonstration was organised by the London Autistic Rights Movement, to highlight that Aspergers Syndrome is considered a disability, and as such no extradition should even be considered.

[broken arrow]

.

[broken arrow]

.

[broken arrow]

.