SNOW CIRCLES ...instead of CROP CIRCLES

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker

Oh well, guess I'm pretty guilible cause I still believe that they are not all man made no matter what you wrote. In fact 2 of the well known researchers were murdered and I wonder why someone would want them to shut up ?

Please dont hold it against me. I dont believe in the 666 for the mark of the beast.............scare tactic symbol.

Oh, well good then. You shouldn't change your mind based on the few words that I posted. You should watch and read everything you can about the subject before drawing a conclusion. If you haven't watched Matthew's videos and documentaries then you most certainly should as I think they contain the hidden truth behind the phenomena.

As the above posting of SoulCrafter points out. Often, people who REALLY investigate crop circles discover the truth and become crop circle makers themselves. This was the case for Matthew Williams and several others mentioned in his videos as well. Crop Circles are actually a sociological phenomena and not a "paranormal" one. Which in my opinion, makes it even more fascinating but for different reasons.

Why would a researcher be murdered? For any number of reasons I imagine. The hostility toward anyone who points out the truth of crop circles amongst crop circle true believers is of course ... tremendous. There is a great deal of money and face to be preserved. Crop Circles are a "cash crop" for unscrupulous researchers, people get nasty when you challenge their livelihood or their dearly held beliefs.

Crop circles are a distraction. There is nothing of any significance to be learned from puzzling over the formations ... they are nothing more than cereal Rorschach blots ... people will see what they will see in them whether the author put it there or not.

For the record ... in case anyone is wondering. Yes, I think UFOs are a real phenomena. I think some form of the ET hypothesis explains it. I think (well I know) that the U.S. government knows they are real and compartments of the government have studied them since the 40s and believes them to be extra-terrestrial. I think that the U.S. UFO study effort was privatized sometime in the 60s. I think that abductions do occur and that an alien presence has been on the Earth for 100s if not 1000s of years. So ... I'm not the debunking Satan sent here to rain on your parade.

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

. So ... I'm not the debunking Satan sent here to rain on your parade.

Satan is a lot like Santa Claus - you can conjure him up, with your mind

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by eXchanger

Satan is a lot like Santa Claus - you can conjure him up, with your mind

What this has to do with Snow or Crop Circles I can't imagine but ...Virgina, there is neither a Santa Claus or a Satan.

I'm just a guy trying to be honest with himself and others. My longtime investigation into UFO and surrounding phenomena has led me to cast aside many of the beliefs and assumptions I had about them to begin with. Sometimes it made me angry and disappointed but that's ok. Uncomfortable truth is preferable to soothing fantasy.

If you disagree with me I'm really very, very ok with that and not threatened by opposing views in any way.

[Majorion]

Hmm... first time I hear of Snow Circles..

Quite impressive photos though, I just wonder how someone could technically even draw shapes like this in snow without leaving footprints, tracks, etc.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Hmm... first time I hear of Snow Circles..

Quite impressive photos though, I just wonder how someone could technically even draw shapes like this in snow without leaving footprints, tracks, etc.

Easy, you report them a day or so later when it has snowed again. think logical people please

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

Easy, you report them a day or so later when it has snowed again. think logical people please

Not sure exactly what you're saying Soulcrafter, it seems odd, I think there should be some tracks or some sign of activity near the circles, which there absolutely isn't, and I don't think its worth fighting over either way as it seems to now.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Not sure exactly what you're saying Soulcrafter, it seems odd, I think there should be some tracks or some sign of activity near the circles, which there absolutely isn't, and I don't think its worth fighting over either way as it seems to now.

Fighting? We are discussing All i can say is try it for yourself.

[waitinginthewings]

trainedobserver: Just out of interest, does Matthew go around the world making all the crop circles, he must be a busy guy.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

trainedobserver: Just out of interest, does Matthew go around the world making all the crop circles, he must be a busy guy.

Obviously he isn't the only one making crop circles. If you had taken the time to investigate him or watch any of his videos you would have realized this. But of course you haven't done so have you?

This same trite comment is often made about Doug and Dave, the two artists credited with starting the modern Crop Circle phenomena. The fact of the matter is the whole business exploded and became something much larger than anyone would have thought. This aspect is also covered in detail in the documentary I mentioned on his youtube channel. There are many different teams and individuals who make crop circles. It doesn't require you join a union you know. Practically anyone could do it and the evidence shows that people from all over the world have picked up on it. As Soulc pointed out and as is documented on video, some people who investigate the phenomena realize just what is happening and then "join in" for any number of reasons.

Be my guest. Continue to think (or should I say 'believe') that crop circles are made by some mysterious force. It doesn't bother me in the least.

[waitinginthewings]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Obviously he isn't the only one making crop circles. If you had taken the time to investigate him or watch any of his videos you would have realized this. But of course you haven't done so have you?

This same trite comment is often made about Doug and Dave, the two artists credited with starting the modern Crop Circle phenomena. The fact of the matter is the whole business exploded and became something much larger than anyone would have thought. This aspect is also covered in detail in the documentary I mentioned on his youtube channel. There are many different teams and individuals who make crop circles. It doesn't require you join a union you know. Practically anyone could do it and the evidence shows that people from all over the world have picked up on it. As Soulc pointed out and as is documented on video, some people who investigate the phenomena realize just what is happening and then "join in" for any number of reasons.

Be my guest. Continue to think (or should I say 'believe') that crop circles are made by some mysterious force. It doesn't bother me in the least.

There probably is some groups making crop circles which is too bad really, because it clouds the whole issue.

The problem I have is that this theory does not explain how a crop circle can happen in a matter of minutes, & where strange glowing orb like objects have been photographed above the circle, implying the possibility that the circle was been made by this object, or had some other connection to it. There is definitely a mystery that needs investigation through open minds and not through those who are focused solely on debunking.

Its easy to jump on the bandwagon of humans made them which serves another agenda and most certainly not real research in the quest of truth and understanding.

[hollylindin]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

There is definitely a mystery that needs investigation through open minds and not through those who are focused solely on debunking.

I agree, Waiting. I find just as much negativity in those who try to debunk everything as those who think there's always a conspiracy (although, in the world we live in right now, I would say MOST are conspiracy because the lies of the powers that were are so obvious).

<3

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

There probably is some groups making crop circles which is too bad really, because it clouds the whole issue.
...
Its easy to jump on the bandwagon of humans made them which serves another agenda and most certainly not real research in the quest of truth and understanding.

Ha! That is the whole point I am trying to make here. The issue isn't clouded ... it is a cloud. And it is NOT easy to jump on the human's make crop circles bandwagon. At least it wasn't for me or many others. It took a great deal of digging, head scratching, and changing of opinions and beliefs.

I have seen absolutely no evidence to substantiate reports of instantly generated crop circles. If you can supply some I'll gladly review it and change my opinion if it merits changing.

The most famous video of a orb creating a crop circle (Olivers Castle) is a self-confessed (John Wabe) hoax. Look it up. Now one of the amazing things about this phenomena is that even after I have provided folks with enough information to investigate this for themselves 99% them will not but will rather be content to believe they have actually seen something they haven't because they just know, just know in their heart of hearts, that humans cannot make those things.

I mean ... crop circles makers have stood in formations they have made and told researchers "... made this one last night... got me plans, boards, and ropes in the boot ... wanna see?" and faced ridicule, disbelief, and accusations of working for MI5. No wonder many of them are having such a cynical laugh at the whole business of crop circle "researchers" and believers.

It is an amazing and fascinating phenomena to be sure.

[kriya]

Trained Observer,

You neglect to mention the huge amount of energy (radiation) detected in some circles. I can attest to this phenomenon myself as I have experienced it.

Love,

Kriya

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by kriya

Trained Observer,

You neglect to mention the huge amount of energy (radiation) detected in some circles. I can attest to this phenomenon myself as I have experienced it.

Love,

Kriya

No I did not neglect to mention that. If you will kindly reread my posts to this thread you will see I dropped that into my first response to this thread along with the preamble ... "Also, before I get the usual 'what about this or that' responses let me say this."

I also prefaced my first response with ... "I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this ..." How correct that was! Ha. ha.

The problem is this. Researchers have tested crop circles "known to be made by humans" and found all the energy anomalies and what have you that are found in allegedly "genuine" crop circles. The only conclusion you can reach is that these tests do nothing to indicate a crop circle's origin.

Peace,
T.O.

[kriya]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

No I did not neglect to mention that. If you will kindly reread my posts to this thread you will see I dropped that into my first response to this thread along with the preamble ... "Also, before I get the usual 'what about this or that' responses let me say this."

I also prefaced my first response with ... "I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this ..." How correct that was! Ha. ha.

The problem is this. Researchers have tested crop circles "known to be made by humans" and found all the energy anomalies and what have you that are found in allegedly "genuine" crop circles. The only conclusion you can reach is that these tests do nothing to indicate a crop circle's origin.

Peace,
T.O.

OK,

Sorry for not reading your original post properly. Yet I still have to disagree with you basic premise. When you walk along the fields in Wiltshire you don't generally get electric shocks from the ground. Now I would agree that energy could be detected in hoaxed circles due to ley lines etc.. but not to the extent that I experienced it. I am not actually of the opinion that they are made by ETs, however I do believe that some kind of weird natural phenomenon occurs to create them, or perhaps its even our own collective consciousness.

We won't agree, so I am just going to leave it at that.

Love,

Kriya

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by kriya

OK,
... but not to the extent that I experienced it.

How could you possibly "know" this?

Originally Posted by kriya

... however I do believe that some kind of weird natural phenomenon occurs to create them, or perhaps its even our own collective consciousness.

Oddly enough, I've given you the resources to review demonstrations and testimony that provide evidence provided by actual crop circle makers themselves that show that crop circles are made by human beings. Your evidence or justification for them being naturally occurring phenomena or the products of a collective consciousness is what exactly? See where I'm coming from? See where it is going?

Again. I encourage everyone reading this to view the documentaries and videos provided by Matthew Williams (youtuber truthseeker666) on how crop circles are made, who makes them, the veracity of popular researchers, and so forth before reading this thread any further.

[kriya]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Your evidence or justification for them being naturally occurring phenomena or the products of a collective consciousness is what exactly?
.

My own experience.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by kriya

My own experience.

Care to share us the full story? Thank you in advance.

[hollylindin]

Originally Posted by Soulcrafter

Care to share us the full story? Thank you in advance.

Oh, yes, Kriya, I would LOVE to hear about your experience!

<3

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by kriya

My own experience.

This is like pulling teeth.

What is your experience?

[Snowbird]

The orbs are very busy!!

[skysurfer]

BREAKING NEWS......

My spies tell me that there's a new huge 130 metre snow formation in Holland in the field right next to the one you've all been discussing above and photos have been taken

The snags to verification of anything paranormal in the first event in my view are that the pictures don't show the full formation so hoaxers could have stepped into the scene and made the circles with either boards or some kind of roller.

That would be possible because if you note there are no isolated circles - they are all linked therefore each can be accessed from the other.

And the missing snow might merely be impacted snow - think of walking on soft snow.....nobody wonders who has stolen the snow from the footprints!

So if these new circles are well documented this case could make or break the idea of an anomalous origin - and make or break Nancy Talbott and the psychic guy Robbert who is surrounded by a lot of controversy and stories of fakery.

But don't assume my scepticism above rules out weird events - they happen for sure. But snow is a very revealing canvas so with good detective work these particular circles could take the subject forward - or melt it away like snow.

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by skysurfer

BREAKING NEWS......

My spies tell me that there's a new huge 130 metre snow formation in Holland in the field right next to the one you've all been discussing above and photos have been taken

The snags to verification of anything paranormal in the first event in my view are that the pictures don't show the full formation so hoaxers could have stepped into the scene and made the circles with either boards or some kind of roller.

That would be possible because if you note there are no isolated circles - they are all linked therefore each can be accessed from the other.

And the missing snow might merely be impacted snow - think of walking on soft snow.....nobody wonders who has stolen the snow from the footprints!

So if these new circles are well documented this case could make or break the idea of an anomalous origin - and make or break Nancy Talbott and the psychic guy Robbert who is surrounded by a lot of controversy and stories of fakery.

But don't assume my scepticism above rules out weird events - they happen for sure. But snow is a very revealing canvas so with good detective work these particular circles could take the subject forward - or melt it away like snow.

Thank you for posting this one. Yes the RVDB case has been debunked and proven fake from the beginning when he started taking pictures of the so called aliens which were paper cut out figures held in front of the camera.

http://www.grenswetenschap.nl/images...pperwapper.jpg

And the 'mud men' photo's proven to be fakery also.

http://www.ufologie.net/pics/crophoevenvdb05.jpg

Same goes for the ufo photo's he took which are also on the blt site.

http://www.bltresearch.com/robbert/ufophotos.php

All this on the same site where they present the so called 'evidence' of genuine formations. Makes you wonder about the credibility of this science/research isn't it.

[skysurfer]

I am not altogether satisfied he has been successfully debunked - just because somebody can photograph cut outs, doesn't mean they have done.

You've got to catch a faker at it to really prove your case.

And I know the existence of images like the ones claimed to be paranormally obtained is evidence for some of fakery but in the history of psychic research there are cases where psychic photos have matched existing ones, with no evidence of trickery.

In any case I have heard that there are subtle differences between existing photos and Robbert's claimed psychic ones.

This whole case very much needs Nancy Talbott and RVDB tackling all these fake allegations and refuting them strongly, if they can.

On the other hand Nancy has been a serious researcher for many years and I would be very surprised if she would have stayed with this case so long if there wasn't something substantial and paranormal, persuading her to stay with it.

PS I can't find the buttons to press to open the quick reply function. What's the difference between QR and this one?

[Soulcrafter]

Originally Posted by skysurfer

You've got to catch a faker at it to really prove your case.

He has been catched as a faker on dutch tv.
But sadly enough the show was kinda popular they kept inviting him.
Mainstream media, what else did you expect.

Look it up it's all over the internet.

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html

I suppose you don't understand dutch so get a translator and see for yourself.

http://www.skepsis.nl/wonderman.html
http://www.skepsis.nl/robbertvandenbroeke.html

18 threads full of evidence he is playing people's minds.
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/799978/1/25

As long as he doesn't sell video's etc people can't drag him into court for confession.

In fact there was a small article in the dutch newspapers where a farmer catched him and his father making circles at night but again the article never made the internet.
I got this from Nancy Talbott herself when i worked as webdesigner for the BLT site years ago.

A few years back the same occured with the so called psychic medium Jomanda.
Eventually she had to come out with the truth that she misled people in order to sell books.