Support for Victims of MKULTRA Projects

Halvor · 12-02-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seashore

What is the Martinists' Elected of Cohen or Elohi cohen?

They are used as an example by Leo Zagami of an elite spiritual hierarchy within the Illuminati which is generally revered for their purity and advanced spirituality. Take a look at the Zagami link I gave you as it's a transcirpt so you can do a word search and see the context there. Search for the term "Elect of Cohen".

Seashore · 12-02-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halvor

They are used as an example by Leo Zagami of an elite spiritual hierarchy within the Illuminati which is generally revered for their purity and advanced spirituality. Take a look at the Zagami link I gave you as it's a transcirpt so you can do a word search and see the context there. Search for the term "Elect of Cohen".

It is? Cool!!

Thanks so much.

eleni · 12-02-2009, 06:43 PM

Halvor- from my understanding iboga (and it's derived form of ibogaine) is more useful in treating drug and alcohol addiction. Aya is different from what I have read. Iboga sounds scary to me- not sure I would ever use it unless I was an addict of some sort.
Have you read accounts of people attempting traditional iboga ceremony in Africa? Sounded scary/very sketchy to me.
Of course now there's a whole tourist industry set up in places like the Amazon for aya ceremony and one has to be very careful what *shaman* they choose. There are less than reputable one's now just looking to cash in.

As far as higher agendas go, well some group must have placed these plants on the planet to begin with. Some would say god, my thinking is otherwise.

The combo of plants used in aya drink have a consciousness of their own- quite amazing that shamanic plants are a stargate unto themselves, allowing one to access other dimensions, affect DNA etc;

Halvor · 12-02-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleni

The combo of plants used in aya drink have a consciousness of their own- quite amazing that shamanic plants are a stargate unto themselves, allowing one to access other dimensions, affect DNA etc;

Indeed. I still see very little to elucidate this arena, which is why I feel some caution may be prudent. Not only for the 'bad trip' potential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleni

Halvor- from my understanding iboga (and it's derived form of ibogaine) is more useful in treating drug and alcohol addiction. Aya is different from what I have read. Iboga sounds scary to me- not sure I would ever use it unless I was an addict of some sort.
Have you read accounts of people attempting traditional iboga ceremony in Africa? Sounded scary/very sketchy to me.

I think your impression is lacking. Iboga is much used for spiritual work quite independent of the use as a deeply psychological anti-addiction cure. I tried a batch in my home about 2001-2002 for that purpose, and although my trip was atypical (in that it wasn't really a "trip" at all), I do wonder to what extent it has still advanced my spiritual development in the years since. That development certainly has been big.

From the iboga trip reports I have read I get the impression that it has a very intelligent, caring and protecting effect on the subject. In descriptions of the hallucinogenic phase I have read that it can play back pivotal scenes and experiences from the subject's life such that the implicit context becomes explicit. I have also read experiences where lifetime after lifetime was lived to the fullest experience of the duration of time, which is the most mind-boggling to me personally. One testimony in particular also compared it to cleaning up a computer hard disk where the re-ordering of folders was based on a new, coherent and logical hierarchy structure and was done visually just like one would do in Windows Explorer. Another issue is that the trip is longer than with any other psychedelic I am aware of. I think the hallucinatory stage alone can last 18 hours or more.

In any case, a psychedelic experience is very often a life-changing event and should be approached and prepared correspondingly I think that someone beginning to get a yearning for such a catalytic event will appreciate this information and research it along with available information about other drugs and modalities which is out there.

eleni · 12-02-2009, 09:20 PM

I think your impression is lacking. Iboga is much used for spiritual work quite independent of the use as a deeply psychological anti-addiction cure. I tried a batch in my home about 2001-2002 for that purpose, and although my trip was atypical (in that it wasn't really a "trip" at all), I do wonder to what extent it has still advanced my spiritual development in the years since. That development certainly has been big.

From the iboga trip reports I have read I get the impression that it has a very intelligent, caring and protecting effect on the subject. In descriptions of the hallucinogenic phase I have read that it can play back pivotal scenes and experiences from the subject's life such that the implicit context becomes explicit. I have also read experiences where lifetime after lifetime was lived to the fullest experience of the duration of time, which is the most mind-boggling to me personally. One testimony in particular also compared it to cleaning up a computer hard disk where the re-ordering of folders was based on a new, coherent and logical hierarchy structure and was done visually just like one would do in Windows Explorer. Another issue is that the trip is longer than with any other psychedelic I am aware of. I think the hallucinatory stage alone can last 18 hours or more.

Yes, it is lacking- no direct experience- I've only read Pinckbeck's account, Hancock's and one book on Iboga. Sounds too scary for me but then again aya is scary for others. Aya seems gentler (although that can be very rough, especially for first timers) and does similar.

I was aware it can be even longer and there have been a few bad accounts (death) from what I remember reading.

Agree that shamanic plants should not be taken lightly.

You are very brave to have done that yourself. Many see their death in this lifetime- did you see that?

Edited to add- I see Jeremy Narby is coming out with a new book on Iboga and Aya- I really enjoyed reading Cosmic Serpent years before I had aya experiences.

"
Iboga Root Bark, Ibogaine, Tabernanthe iboga

The Bwiti cult and other secret cults from West Africa use Iboga to communicate to their dead ancestors. In many ways its effects and use are similar to the better known Ayahuasca from South America but the effects of the Iboga can be stronger and last much longer.

It is the yellowish root that contains the active alkaloids; the root bark is shaved and eaten directly or as a powder drank in an infusion. Cult Shamans use the Iboga Root Bark to seek information from the spiritual world and they may consume this for a full day before asking advice from the ancestors.

Much research has been done with using Ibogaine (The active alkaloid in Iboga) for drug addiction therapy. The results have been spectacular with about a 90% success rate when taken in one high dose by an opiate or even alcohol addict it drastically reduces the withdrawal symptoms and gives the patent an insight with clear visions into his or her own life, revealing the personal cause of the addiction. This in turn enables the patient to go for months without a relapse."

"
A direct experiential comparison of Iboga and Ayahuasca is impossible: they are both teachers of the highest order. Only the rituals can be compared. A Bwiti ceremony is a week long procedure, and that is when rushed for Europeans. Two days cleansing (internal/external), imbibing and then one to two days other side, then three to more days needed for rest and recuperation. The process is understood as being first day dying, second day death, third day onwards rebirth. This is a SERIOUS plant. With ayahuasca there are often people in Peru, and other places, who conduct less than sacred rituals - I know I experienced that once. You would never find that here, the people regard this as the ultimate sacrament, when discussing it, it is never 'Iboga' it is always 'l'iboga sacre' (sacred iboga) or 'l'boue sacre' (sacred drink) . The ritual is not conducted by a single shaman. The entire village takes part, each individual having a specific role to play, instrument to play, part to sing, and they know the ceremony intimately. Having an entire village dedicate two solid days or more to helping you clearly see through the fabric of this reality in the most profound manner by singing, chanting, dancing is an incomparable experience that even now moves me deeply. There is such love emanating from these people. And it isn't your normal African percussive trance inducing music ceremony - the chief instrument is the eight string harp of David, the drums are brought out for only a couple minutes in the whole ceremony, there are so many instruments played, all of them having spiritual significance. I think the drums are used as a last resort, used for those who have 'blockages' as they referred to them. For those who need a real atom-smasher. The music is of a light and angelic nature as opposed to a heavy trancelike beat. Trying to use words to describe the effect of the music is impossible. It was too beautiful for thoughts, let alone words. The fact that it is a combined effort by the whole village, and that you are the centre of focus, you are the 'Banzie', the neophyte, initiate, makes this a very powerful experience indeed. I won't go into detail on the actual experience - it is the method that the experience is served to you that is so impressive, profound and overwhelming."

Halvor · 12-02-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleni

You are very brave to have done that yourself. Many see their death in this lifetime- did you see that?

No, from the immediate impression my experience was botched. I had no psychedelic experience and remained conscious. For five hours I was immobile, only able to roll over to vomit in a bucket, which I did about every ten mintes for that entire time period. I had asked a friend to sit with me, but he had taken some recreational drugs and soon fell asleep. No help there.

What I think happened reflecting on the experience since was that every time an issue was about to surface I instead of drifting into a vision became nauseous and thus retained consciousness. Why this happened I don't know but it could be a protective device due to the nature or context of my memories. It could also be that the alkaloids had gone bad due to too long storage time, because I read that later about the batch from which my bark powder had originated.

I think the excerpt you provided was highly informative. It was much there I wasn't aware of.

3optic · 02-13-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halvor

No, from the immediate impression my experience was botched. I had no psychedelic experience and remained conscious. For five hours I was immobile, only able to roll over to vomit in a bucket, which I did about every ten mintes for that entire time period. I had asked a friend to sit with me, but he had taken some recreational drugs and soon fell asleep. No help there.

I do not have experience with iboga but have some experience with South American plant medicines. I spent some time in Peru apprenticing with an ayauascero. I do not recommend administering these medicines to yourself without expert supervision or protection. This includes more common ethneogens like psilocybin mushrooms.

That said I have taken many unnecessary risks myself in the past and if you find it too difficult to find assistance and feel compelled to experiment, make sure you observe Tim Leary's suggestion for "set and setting" which refers to finding a safe location and creating a peaceful and expansive state of mind.

Many of these medicines bring on states of transitional awareness that can be vulnerable so protection is key. That being said, I am a proponent of the benefits. Also if you want to take a safer route, I highly recommend meditation or yoga, particularly kundalini yoga which I believe may be one the fastest and most powerful tools for transformation and peace of mind.

Seashore · 12-02-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eleni

I think your impression is lacking...

From the iboga ... just like one ...

eleni,

I think it would be helpful to people if you edit your post to show that you're quoting Halvor in the above two paragraphs...

(I think using the tags to create the special box for the quote is good. Just my preference...)

Jacqui D · 12-03-2009, 03:07 PM

Re connection seashore would be a little more than just having dinner!!
We have all lost how to connect with each other, telepathically/socially/connecting back to the heart so to speak. Whilst yes having dinner socialising with others would be a start.
WE have become more and more individually minded, perhaps the computer/gaming side of things have done that but the the whole issue here is we are all one not individual beings and the ultimate end will be to connect back to the original source the creator.

TruthWillSetUFree · 12-03-2009, 07:53 PM

The James Martinez interview was really worth listening to

12-02-2009, 06:43 PM	#3
eleni Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 865	Re: Support for Victims of MKULTRA Projects Halvor- from my understanding iboga (and it's derived form of ibogaine) is more useful in treating drug and alcohol addiction. Aya is different from what I have read. Iboga sounds scary to me- not sure I would ever use it unless I was an addict of some sort. Have you read accounts of people attempting traditional iboga ceremony in Africa? Sounded scary/very sketchy to me. Of course now there's a whole tourist industry set up in places like the Amazon for aya ceremony and one has to be very careful what shaman they choose. There are less than reputable one's now just looking to cash in. As far as higher agendas go, well some group must have placed these plants on the planet to begin with. Some would say god, my thinking is otherwise. The combo of plants used in aya drink have a consciousness of their own- quite amazing that shamanic plants are a stargate unto themselves, allowing one to access other dimensions, affect DNA etc;

12-02-2009, 09:20 PM	#5
eleni Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 865	Re: Support for Victims of MKULTRA Projects I think your impression is lacking. Iboga is much used for spiritual work quite independent of the use as a deeply psychological anti-addiction cure. I tried a batch in my home about 2001-2002 for that purpose, and although my trip was atypical (in that it wasn't really a "trip" at all), I do wonder to what extent it has still advanced my spiritual development in the years since. That development certainly has been big. From the iboga trip reports I have read I get the impression that it has a very intelligent, caring and protecting effect on the subject. In descriptions of the hallucinogenic phase I have read that it can play back pivotal scenes and experiences from the subject's life such that the implicit context becomes explicit. I have also read experiences where lifetime after lifetime was lived to the fullest experience of the duration of time, which is the most mind-boggling to me personally. One testimony in particular also compared it to cleaning up a computer hard disk where the re-ordering of folders was based on a new, coherent and logical hierarchy structure and was done visually just like one would do in Windows Explorer. Another issue is that the trip is longer than with any other psychedelic I am aware of. I think the hallucinatory stage alone can last 18 hours or more. Yes, it is lacking- no direct experience- I've only read Pinckbeck's account, Hancock's and one book on Iboga. Sounds too scary for me but then again aya is scary for others. Aya seems gentler (although that can be very rough, especially for first timers) and does similar. I was aware it can be even longer and there have been a few bad accounts (death) from what I remember reading. Agree that shamanic plants should not be taken lightly. You are very brave to have done that yourself. Many see their death in this lifetime- did you see that? Edited to add- I see Jeremy Narby is coming out with a new book on Iboga and Aya- I really enjoyed reading Cosmic Serpent years before I had aya experiences. " Iboga Root Bark, Ibogaine, Tabernanthe iboga The Bwiti cult and other secret cults from West Africa use Iboga to communicate to their dead ancestors. In many ways its effects and use are similar to the better known Ayahuasca from South America but the effects of the Iboga can be stronger and last much longer. It is the yellowish root that contains the active alkaloids; the root bark is shaved and eaten directly or as a powder drank in an infusion. Cult Shamans use the Iboga Root Bark to seek information from the spiritual world and they may consume this for a full day before asking advice from the ancestors. Much research has been done with using Ibogaine (The active alkaloid in Iboga) for drug addiction therapy. The results have been spectacular with about a 90% success rate when taken in one high dose by an opiate or even alcohol addict it drastically reduces the withdrawal symptoms and gives the patent an insight with clear visions into his or her own life, revealing the personal cause of the addiction. This in turn enables the patient to go for months without a relapse." " A direct experiential comparison of Iboga and Ayahuasca is impossible: they are both teachers of the highest order. Only the rituals can be compared. A Bwiti ceremony is a week long procedure, and that is when rushed for Europeans. Two days cleansing (internal/external), imbibing and then one to two days other side, then three to more days needed for rest and recuperation. The process is understood as being first day dying, second day death, third day onwards rebirth. This is a SERIOUS plant. With ayahuasca there are often people in Peru, and other places, who conduct less than sacred rituals - I know I experienced that once. You would never find that here, the people regard this as the ultimate sacrament, when discussing it, it is never 'Iboga' it is always 'l'iboga sacre' (sacred iboga) or 'l'boue sacre' (sacred drink) . The ritual is not conducted by a single shaman. The entire village takes part, each individual having a specific role to play, instrument to play, part to sing, and they know the ceremony intimately. Having an entire village dedicate two solid days or more to helping you clearly see through the fabric of this reality in the most profound manner by singing, chanting, dancing is an incomparable experience that even now moves me deeply. There is such love emanating from these people. And it isn't your normal African percussive trance inducing music ceremony - the chief instrument is the eight string harp of David, the drums are brought out for only a couple minutes in the whole ceremony, there are so many instruments played, all of them having spiritual significance. I think the drums are used as a last resort, used for those who have 'blockages' as they referred to them. For those who need a real atom-smasher. The music is of a light and angelic nature as opposed to a heavy trancelike beat. Trying to use words to describe the effect of the music is impossible. It was too beautiful for thoughts, let alone words. The fact that it is a combined effort by the whole village, and that you are the centre of focus, you are the 'Banzie', the neophyte, initiate, makes this a very powerful experience indeed. I won't go into detail on the actual experience - it is the method that the experience is served to you that is so impressive, profound and overwhelming." Last edited by eleni; 12-02-2009 at 09:27 PM.

12-03-2009, 03:07 PM	#9
Jacqui D Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Kent,England Posts: 1,267	Re: Support for Victims of MKULTRA Projects Re connection seashore would be a little more than just having dinner!! We have all lost how to connect with each other, telepathically/socially/connecting back to the heart so to speak. Whilst yes having dinner socialising with others would be a start. WE have become more and more individually minded, perhaps the computer/gaming side of things have done that but the the whole issue here is we are all one not individual beings and the ultimate end will be to connect back to the original source the creator.

12-03-2009, 07:53 PM	#10
TruthWillSetUFree Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 673	Re: Support for Victims of MKULTRA Projects The James Martinez interview was really worth listening to