Syphoning

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by oedilroed

Syphoning (sexual) energy, storing that, and re - using or deploying that energy, is old knowledge.
That dates way back to Atlantis, and is of extraterestial (reptillian) origin.
Syphoning off energy is the basis of BDSM - although the great majority who practische this are unaware of this.
There exist machines to syphon off energy from individuals.
Wilhelm Reich was aware of this, and did develop his Orgone accumulator, and while his accumulator was intended to capture cosmic orgone, it could also be charged with one´s own (sexual) energy.
While this kind of knowledge is highly obscure here in the west, In the easteren countries ( India) there is a strong underground tradition in this - also today.

I have reasons to believe, that many who are adicted to BDSM activities in this life, have a history of past lives where they where energy slaves: forced to having their sexual energy syphoned off. ( or where masters who did "milk" the slaves)
Quit a lot of evil has been done in the past.
But possibly now is also the time to face this and integrate it.

This is a vast and deep subject, that is beyond the scope of this forum and that may well be inapropiate to deal with here.
" Go with that kind of talk to a BDSM site " may very well be a reaction, but believe me: those people do not know what the heck this subject is .

Also, I´am aware that this subject matter may be offensive to members here.
For that reason , I will not further elaborate on this, but those who feel inclined to do so, can always send me a PM.

Yes, I replied to another forum member here about exactly such issues on the "I want to make my attitude on alines very clear" (or so) thread by Egg. However, I did not connect the two issues yet, thanks a lot. This gives me new leads for sure.
It's interesting that victims even develop this addiction to abuse. One could almost wonder whether that emotional state was also invented to attach the slave to the master.
Luckily, I've just about figured that I shouldn't get into that sh*t when it was up to date.

On the syphoning end however, is there something like remote BDSM? Maybe one can view the whole of what 777 is talking about as a domination matter. I shall have to think on this.

Thanks a lot!

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by oedilroed

Yes, "addiction to abuse" does exist, and as any adiction has to do with neuroptides produced by the brain.

certain sensations (= the abuse ) are sought, because then the brain does produce the neuroptides, the sensation being only the trigger that does release the neuroptides.

Yes, " remote BDSM " does exist : syphoning, can be done by psychic link ( say in conjuction with a video call )

This sounds rather alarming, but there is also good news: there is no need to be a victim: You have the power to recall the energy you lost.
If you are aflicted with fantasies about having your energy syphoned of ( or have fantasies doing this to others )
It is possible to integrate those: They will not go away, but will cease to bother you.

Also, there is a light side to syphoning: it is a wonderful way to share in each energies: An awakened hart will dispel all dark shadows of guilt and shame

Furthermore, it is possible to take in cosmic energy while you are being syphoned, meaning you get energised while being syphoned off.

A path of experience exist to "walk through" this isue - to get released of any hold it may have on you.
BDSM can also be used as a healing experience: creating a safe environment to confront and live through parts of our shadowside: confronting the dark, without being its victim.
To do this, a deep bond of respect and confidence is needed between "top" and " bottom", they being united by hart energy.

Ah, truly enlightening. I can see that this CAN be another mode of catharsis due to facing one's own dark side. But the trust level can't be underestimated.
The question here is, how is a master/servant relationship built between the 'waker' and the 'sleeper'?

777 would say this is media, and I have to agree, but let's put that aside for a moment, could there be any other ways?

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by oedilroed

Trust is something that is build up.
How ? Start a conversation (using this tread, or by PM ) and share your story, while you also learn the story from the other side.
How do the answers feel ? how is the energy ?
Above all, how does it feel for You ?

No intelectual discussion is going to make any difference to your problem.
But understanding with experience wil.

I do not see myself as a "waker" who believes he must lead " sleepers"
Neither are you asleep - you only do not know how to handle a fascination.
a fascination that has a grip on you, and may tempt you to go into dangerous experiences. - especialy when doing this with the wrong people

I have the advantage of practical knowledge, - This includes, shamanism, past life readings, and among other things, being hooked up on a machine that syphones of sexual energy, also doing the same to other men - yet, going beyond being a victim or a perpetrator.
So, I know what I speak about.
Can you trust me ? Can I trust you ?

The only way to find out is by starting a dialogue and evaluate the answers you get - that is the way I do it when dealing with others.

I´am prepared to go with you in an open and candid conversation either here, or in private.
I only require the same openness and straightforwardness that I give you.

Well, out in the open it is stranger!
(You're a manipulative challenger already but hey, that's fine... so far.)
Yet I am already a little weary of your appearance on this forum because of the first post I've read of you. Furthermore I want to note that this 'intellectual discussion here' is so far not a fascination with evil and I don't think I am currently about to burn my fingers on anything as I've left abusive relationships way behind me. The purpose, so far, was to simply interrogate what's 'out there' and 'how' it's possible.

As for the 'sleepers' and 'wakers', I would strongly hope that none of this forum are either... but hey, if I learned something recently then it is that 'spiritually advanced' has nothing to do with how one treats other people, or at least some of them 'gurus' don't seem to have that part of it figured. Sad.

Nevertheless, I shall take your invitation by heart however, as I am well aware that many (if not most) things are well beyond intellectual discussions, or for that sake, words at all.
It's only a week since I asked "So how DO I ask a question with my body?" This was entirely in a martial arts manner, mind you (hello Kathleen, all clean here so far).

No matter, I'm most curious to your idea of bringing this, on a forum, from an intellectual discussion to an actual experience or are you about to pay me a flight to Belgium?
Bring it on!

[Czymra]

Okay, all well. So what's the game plan? Trust? Talking?

"Tell me of your mother."

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by oedilroed

Start with talking, there is realy no other way to start.
Without intimacy and trust we get nowhere.
And these must be build up.
We build that up by being vulnarable, and taking chanches with each other.

This is not about some weird "kick" or the satisfaction of intelectual curiosity.
This is about facing your own internal darkness, confronting the fears and guilt that linger there. To see those for what they realy are, for none of that can have any hold on you - but to know that, you must face them. And that requires courage - and a safe environment, in wich to have real intimacy

Without this, I would say; don´t bother.

I think we're talking past each other. What you say I live day by day. Not that I have perfected it but I've seldom seen someone so honest as me outside this board and I'm constantly working on my humility (I know, call me pretentious but I really do always try to recognise my failings).

When you cam in at first it seemed that you wanted to engage in that process of getting to know each other, now it seems as if we're back to the theory again.

If it's the theory we're on about, the only real question in my mind is: "When there is enough trust with a person, what then and what insights am I to look for in regards to this topic and how do I stay away from abuse?"

Admittedly, that's more then one question but the essence is the same.

Fill me in, I'm confused. (Or empty me? That might be more important when confused but I'd lose my focus.)

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by oedilroed

Syphoning (sexual) energy, storing that, and re - using or deploying that energy, is old knowledge.
That dates way back to Atlantis, and is of extraterestial (reptillian) origin.
Syphoning off energy is the basis of BDSM - although the great majority who practische this are unaware of this.
There exist machines to syphon off energy from individuals.
Wilhelm Reich was aware of this, and did develop his Orgone accumulator, and while his accumulator was intended to capture cosmic orgone, it could also be charged with one´s own (sexual) energy.
While this kind of knowledge is highly obscure here in the west, In the easteren countries ( India) there is a strong underground tradition in this - also today.

I have reasons to believe, that many who are adicted to BDSM activities in this life, have a history of past lives where they where energy slaves: forced to having their sexual energy syphoned off. ( or where masters who did "milk" the slaves)
Quit a lot of evil has been done in the past.
But possibly now is also the time to face this and integrate it.

I'm jumping into this a little late (having just noted this turn in the conversation) but I find the subject to be fascinating.

I'd be interested in any links that might shed light on the existence and use of machinery that siphons and stores spiritual/life or sexual energy. I have no doubt that this was a part of the Atlantean misuses of power.

I've read about the orgone accumulator, but I'm not clear on how it works. It seems that a principal component of its process would be intent.

Originally Posted by oedilroed

Yes, "addiction to abuse" does exist, and as any adiction has to do with neuroptides produced by the brain.

certain sensations (= the abuse ) are sought, because then the brain does produce the neuroptides, the sensation being only the trigger that does release the neuroptides.

Also, there is a light side to syphoning: it is a wonderful way to share in each energies: An awakened hart will dispel all dark shadows of guilt and shame

Furthermore, it is possible to take in cosmic energy while you are being syphoned, meaning you get energised while being syphoned off.

A path of experience exist to "walk through" this isue - to get released of any hold it may have on you.
BDSM can also be used as a healing experience: creating a safe environment to confront and live through parts of our shadowside: confronting the dark, without being its victim.

I'm also aware of the addiction process through neuropeptides, and of the fact that BDSM is being used, mostly subconsciously, as a healing experience between persons who have histories of being either controllers or slaves.

The neuropeptides are attached to any addiction, not only sexual or to abuse, but even to depression or paranoia. It's hard to understand that a person can be addicted to what makes them feel bad, and that it requires reprogramming through intent to change that pattern.

But, to address the subject of syphoning...It seems that this is most often done with the permission of the donor, which is usually unconsciously given (as would be the case with a concert or occult/religious ritual), though I'm seeing as I write this that there would be ways to take it with force. It seems that whatever we see in the food chain of the organic world is reflected energetically.

Syphoning is also being done by the manipulation and control of people's frequencies through television, media and music, and especially through the shaping of our emotional output by focusing on tragedies. It does feel "good" to feel grief. It's an outlet for the trauma we've been carrying for all our lifetimes. When a catastrophic event like 911, or even a singular death, like that of Diana occurs, that output must be enormous.

Originally Posted by Czymra

As for the 'sleepers' and 'wakers', I would strongly hope that none of this forum are either... but hey, if I learned something recently then it is that 'spiritually advanced' has nothing to do with how one treats other people, or at least some of them 'gurus' don't seem to have that part of it figured. Sad.

Czymra, I would say that "sleepers" are certainly present in this forum as well as dark sorcerers, psy-ops manipulators and anyone else who might have an interest the energy flow that's going on here.

Also I think "spirituality advanced" has everything to do with how one treats other people, and much less to do with the type of metaphysical information that we tend to associate with gurus. This is exactly what I was talking about in the "interview with Astralwalker" thread when I joked about writing a book.

I've gone on in what may be somewhat of a tangent to this discussion in the Hacking the Genetic Mind thread.

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by sun-toon´

I'm jumping into this a little late (having just noted this turn in the conversation) but I find the subject to be fascinating.

I'd be interested in any links that might shed light on the existence and use of machinery that siphons and stores spiritual/life or sexual energy. I have no doubt that this was a part of the Atlantean misuses of power.

I've read about the orgone accumulator, but I'm not clear on how it works. It seems that a principal component of its process would be intent.

Get the book "Psychic Sexuality" by Ingo Swann. The most in depth explanation of all things sexual and astral. Admittedly the first half of the book goes on about establishing context and definitions and only the last part is really interesting but it is a very interesting exploration also on how the non-visible part of existence has been 'bullied' out of acceptance.

I haven't finished it yet but found some things very revealing. It's not entirely conclusive but hey.... what is?

Torrents exist, might be easier then hoping to find a real copy.

I'm also aware of the addiction process through neuropeptides, and of the fact that BDSM is being used, mostly subconsciously, as a healing experience between persons who have histories of being either controllers or slaves.

The neuropeptides are attached to any addiction, not only sexual or to abuse, but even to depression or paranoia. It's hard to understand that a person can be addicted to what makes them feel bad, and that it requires reprogramming through intent to change that pattern.

But, to address the subject of syphoning...It seems that this is most often done with the permission of the donor, which is usually unconsciously given (as would be the case with a concert or occult/religious ritual), though I'm seeing as I write this that there would be ways to take it with force. It seems that whatever we see in the food chain of the organic world is reflected energetically.

Syphoning is also being done by the manipulation and control of people's frequencies through television, media and music, and especially through the shaping of our emotional output by focusing on tragedies. It does feel "good" to feel grief. It's an outlet for the trauma we've been carrying for all our lifetimes. When a catastrophic event like 911, or even a singular death, like that of Diana occurs, that output must be enormous.

I'm glad you're bringing in the emotional aspect. I haven't really considered that enough yet. I've had another thread 'On Emotion' that kind of died a slow death and digressed... there I referred to our addiction to emotions and how it is used to fuel us in doing the 'wrong things', the short time satisfaction... find the post for more detail. The search is with you and I can't be bothered to cut of the stream of writing.

The emotional side is what I have been missing from the rituals as 777 illustrates them. Now however, I can see why those rituals release an energy within the masses through those emotions, to me this seems much more important than the fact that symbols are being used. It's still beyond me how those symbols could channel the energy (or whatever it is that steers this process) but now things are slowly falling into place, especially when you mention Princess Diana etc. The focus so far was always on the ritual, the symbolism, not the emotional energy that is focused at the event.

Maybe I didn't see the wood for the trees.
Thank you.

Czymra, I would say that "sleepers" are certainly present in this forum as well as dark sorcerers, psy-ops manipulators and anyone else who might have an interest the energy flow that's going on here.

Also I think "spirituality advanced" has everything to do with how one treats other people, and much less to do with the type of metaphysical information that we tend to associate with gurus. This is exactly what I was talking about in the "interview with Astralwalker" thread when I joked about writing a book.

I've gone on in what may be somewhat of a tangent to this discussion in the Hacking the Genetic Mind thread.

I am sure there are but let me roam with my naivety just a little longer... there's only one of us here after all.
I agree that the conduct with other people is probably the main signifier of spiritual development, but sadly the 'spiritual skills' (for the lack of a better term, maybe "Siddhis" does it) don't seem to be handed out on a basis of brownie points.

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by oedilroed

Yes, aparently we do not understand each other here.
Why not tell us, how you got involved with "syphoning" ?
And saying "NO" is a way to stay out of abuse.

This sounds like group therapy and I do hope you won't play the therapist all along here. Otherwise I'll have to consider the possibility that I move into an abusive relationship right now.
So I'll toss the ball on the end of this, get ready to catch. (Where's Josefine by the way?)

So, you've asked a simple question here, and as the beauty with simple questions and my rising awareness is that you've unlocked Pandora's box and I shall unleash the multitude of answers that can be given to this question, and this may indeed happen in the danger of losing all grammatical correctness and semantical properness. In fact, the more of this I pick up the more it feels that it's spinning out of control, this time however, maybe things are actually just spinning with a longer radius. Who knows.
Off we go.

How excellent that my fingers are used to typing English in a fast and non-controlled manner that all can flow from the 'it' without thinking so much.
This in fact brings up the memories of probably the only really deep abusive relationship I had but hey, let's open this fan wider before we go there:

When asked how I got involved with syphoning however, that doesn't imply that you actually want to hear about that.
Let's start with this thread.
I read the article I translated and it just appeared like a terribly interesting topic. I have yet to figure out why I find it so intriguing. As stated before it has little to nothing to do with empowering myself by using the tools that are being explored. In fact, I might have wanted pride myself with the idea of learning a protection against them and furthermore contribute to this topic on the Nexus thread, where I brought concerns among these lines up several times. It didn't seem like anyone was listening, so hey, maybe I'm just trying to prove them wrong. There are all kinds of inputs right?

You could of course also say that this is my pattern, that this is what I now figured is a part of my self-abusive tendency and it comes down the pipe without me really realising why I engage with it. Very possible, but as I am aware of that I'm thinking there has to be more to it.

I cannot say much about this 'other' curiosity. I suppose it's one of those matters of resolving karmic residue maybe even from past lives. That still sounds way beyond me though so any such suppositions seem utterly pretentious.

(You're picking up a pattern in my words I'm sure... )

I believe I'm mainly over the abusive situations in my life and in fact, I have yet to find another big karmic issue apart from learning to pay attention to detail and... I forgot the other one. I think it's motivation... and in fact if that is the case I'm resolving that right now.

Way to go!

To get at more detail however, I think if there is abusive stuff going on, it's probably more the helper syndrome.
Yes, I have learned to undermine domination abusers, I have learned to elegantly escape them with the right mixture of humility and 'no'. No worries there. The ultimate weapon indeed has become to have an utterly brutal honesty towards all. Not that I'm completely there, I was once, but that also is a form of self-torture unnecessary. It's now become a matter of balancing the 'pushing it' side with the 'don't waste your time' side. As you might realise this very act is such an act of pushing it with honesty. I'm sure there will be people that think I'm full of myself and others that love me for it. That situation, when taken rightly is a catharsis in itself and I can't imagine myself much more vulnerable than giving out all there is. Granted, it's easier on a forum than in real life... the problem in real life is simply that no one asks for it. In fact most people are scared by me offering so much. Maybe that's another tendency of self-torture, there is a pattern.

No matter, every time I do it I learn. Is this an addiction? Maybe it is but I find it a teaching experience that brings me ever further so I don't see anything wrong with it. It's not like being addicted to chocolate.


If in fact, if this is a matter of me still being in a kind of abusive relationship, and yes I think that may be so, then it is a matter of the helper-syndrome.
...and here my writing flow just dies away.
How is it that someone can make me dependant by depending on me? Why do I even buy into this? I did all I could this time to prevent it. Still, it didn't resolve. I fail at this point to come up with any justification for my actions nor for their absence. I know I don't need justification, in fact nothing really does. It's a misconception as far as I understand it. Yet, conscience, which so far was my term for 'higher self' as it lead and protected me in this rather wonderful life I lead, seems to suggest to hold on to this relationship.
No, there is no awareness of her abusing me in any way. I can not tell if she does it or not. I guess it's my pattern rather then hers. But who knows. Only further merciless self-examination will bring an answer.

To briefly account for the real abusive relationship that I got so hooked on when I was a teenager... how shall I express it. I never felt so dead as when trying to help someone live who already died inside. Rotting inside being alive is probably the best description. If it has taught me one thing it is that my problems are my problems, and other people's problems are theirs.
That does not exclude that I can change another by changing myself, for we are all one, but it means that I have to change my problems within me, not other people.
The hardest task is just to see the pale reflections in the mirror of life when there isn't some 'teacher' that smacks them in your face.

Last but not least, syphoning might also be interpreted as a matter of being economical with one's energy. There are all kinds of rules out there that suck the energy from one. Behavioural, conceptual, emotional... all rules that tell me not to feel comfortable this way, not to be fine with that attitude, not to accept this and let it go... is this syphoned energy? Is that energy I lose due to tension because I can't let things stream through me naturally, because of the rejection that's been beaten into me, really syphoned? It seems more like it turns stale in my 'body' until I can knock it out or transmute it again. Other times it's more like it deflagrates... vaporises... and floats around aimlessly, ready to chaotically jump on the next susceptible victim.

Is this the matrix of self-propagating fear demons? Is it a grand scheme? It seems more like self-fulfilling prophecy to me.




----


Here comes the ball and forgive me for it being a little more offensive than a plain out question:

1. What's with the avatar picture?
2. What is the intention of interpreting the 'The Bull is Gone' post in such a sexual manner and attacking the poster for sexual frustrations. Is all your life's interpretation based on this sexual focus? Not that I can't see the subtext but what's the point of the attack?
3. Since you lead this discourse with me, what do you consider your calling?
4. Do you intend to have a distanced and authoritative wording? (Or is it just me again? Or is it a protection that you built up?)

Respectfully (your picture actually inspired me to take my musqueteer hat of and bow in elegant manner, but it's not supposed to be facetious, rather entertaining... but who knows...)
Czymra

[777 The Great Work]

Originally Posted by oedilroed

Yes, "addiction to abuse" does exist, and as any adiction has to do with neuroptides produced by the brain.

certain sensations (= the abuse ) are sought, because then the brain does produce the neuroptides, the sensation being only the trigger that does release the neuroptides.

Yes, " remote BDSM " does exist : syphoning, can be done by psychic link ( say in conjuction with a video call )

This sounds rather alarming, but there is also good news: there is no need to be a victim: You have the power to recall the energy you lost.
If you are aflicted with fantasies about having your energy syphoned of ( or have fantasies doing this to others )
It is possible to integrate those: They will not go away, but will cease to bother you.

Also, there is a light side to syphoning: it is a wonderful way to share in each energies: An awakened hart will dispel all dark shadows of guilt and shame

Furthermore, it is possible to take in cosmic energy while you are being syphoned, meaning you get energised while being syphoned off.

A path of experience exist to "walk through" this isue - to get released of any hold it may have on you.
BDSM can also be used as a healing experience: creating a safe environment to confront and live through parts of our shadowside: confronting the dark, without being its victim.
To do this, a deep bond of respect and confidence is needed between "top" and " bottom", they being united by hart energy.

BDSM = Quipploth ,I'm leaving this thread alone.

[Czymra]

Very interesting.

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by oedilroed

As far as I know,there are no links, let alone pictures of such machines on the net.
But you might find such in the Akashic records.
The machine, I have is something that i did build myself, I got my information, from past life recals, and viewing akashic records.

That's for your response oedilroed. If you're not uncomfortable answering this question, why would you build such a device, and how do you use it (in an energetic sense)?

Originally Posted by Czymra

Get the book "Psychic Sexuality" by Ingo Swann.

Funny, before I'd even logged on to see your suggestion I'd found a link to that torrent in my mailbox (sent by one of my research associates) and I was already downloading it.

Originally Posted by Czymra

I'm glad you're bringing in the emotional aspect. I haven't really considered that enough yet.

The emotional side is what I have been missing from the rituals as 777 illustrates them. Now however, I can see why those rituals release an energy within the masses through those emotions, to me this seems much more important than the fact that symbols are being used. It's still beyond me how those symbols could channel the energy (or whatever it is that steers this process) but now things are slowly falling into place, especially when you mention Princess Diana etc. The focus so far was always on the ritual, the symbolism, not the emotional energy that is focused at the event.

Maybe I didn't see the wood for the trees.

Besides the conjuring of negative emotions, positive, ecstatic and even orgasmic energy can be misdirected as well.

I have a theory that occult rituals, or religious...no difference there really, are all about creating an energy that some of the people attending will feel. The symbols help, awakening a connection that everyone has to specific archetypal energies or beings. The magical element of performing every step of a ritual process; every word, movement and gesture in precisely the same way as it has been done hundreds, thousands...sometimes millions of times before, creates a sort of dimensional wormhole that attaches that moment to every other moment when that ritual has been performed. This amplifies the energy in a way that couldn't be accomplished otherwise.
One of the main purposes, at least in the case of religious ceremony, is that an energy will be released that is powerful enough to have an emotional effect on those present. Since people are generally superstitious and tend not to observe from any kind of scientific or logical point of view, most who would feel the energy, especially in a positive or ecstatic manner, will be convinced that higher forces are at work...especially since that would have been the purported intent in the first place. It must be God, what other explanation could there be?

It only takes a few who feel the energy to bring many of their family and friends back with them. How many families are dragged to church because the family matriarch had an ecstatic experience and was convinced that God Himself had shown her the light?

It's good to understand that emotional ecstasy does not always emanate from the highest of sources and that an array of dark motives can be hidden under it's cloak.

Edit: the previous 4 posts came in while I was composing this. I don't know what to think about your "abuse" issues, so I'll leave that alone. Be aware though, that the siphoning of emotional energy is big business as well as small business, and also a part of behavior within the natural hierarchy of creatures. I'll return later with an anecdote to shed some light on that facet of it.

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by sun-toon´

That's for your response oedilroed. If you're not uncomfortable answering this question, why would you build such a device, and how do you use it (in an energetic sense)?



Funny, before I'd even logged on to see your suggestion I'd found a link to that torrent in my mailbox (sent by one of my research associates) and I was already downloading it.




Besides the conjuring of negative emotions, positive, ecstatic and even orgasmic energy can be misdirected as well.

I have a theory that occult rituals, or religious...no difference there really, are all about creating an energy that some of the people attending will feel. The symbols help, awakening a connection that everyone has to specific archetypal energies or beings. The magical element of performing every step of a ritual process; every word, movement and gesture in precisely the same way as it has been done hundreds, thousands...sometimes millions of times before, creates a sort of dimensional wormhole that attaches that moment to every other moment when that ritual has been performed. This amplifies the energy in a way that couldn't be accomplished otherwise.
One of the main purposes, at least in the case of religious ceremony, is that an energy will be released that is powerful enough to have an emotional effect on those present. Since people are generally superstitious and tend not to observe from any kind of scientific or logical point of view, most who would feel the energy, especially in a positive or ecstatic manner, will be convinced that higher forces are at work...especially since that would have been the purported intent in the first place. It must be God, what other explanation could there be?

It only takes a few who feel the energy to bring many of their family and friends back with them. How many families are dragged to church because the family matriarch had an ecstatic experience and was convinced that God Himself had shown her the light?

It's good to understand that emotional ecstasy does not always emanate from the highest of sources and that an array of dark motives can be hidden under it's cloak.

Most excellent! Brilliant! This is the kind of post I've been waiting for.
Thank you man!
Now it all falls in place.

And in fact I might have conducted my own little ritual here. o_o

[sun-toon´]

Here's another type of energetic siphoning that I've experienced. I've never tried to relate this anecdote in writing before, and I’ve told only a few people about it, but I'll give it a try.

This happened a couple years ago in a small town in Ohio. It was the middle of the morning and I'd just made a quick stop at the bank. As I was driving out towards the main highway I could see that something was going on up ahead at the intersection...vehicles parked askew, and people milling around. When I got up to the corner it turned out to be a serious traffic accident. A small car crossing the highway from the other direction had been hit broadside by a pickup truck. The car was knocked off the road where it had traveled up an embankment and crashed into a large boulder. It was an eerie scene, the air was still and cold and it was quietly snowing large flakes. A few people had stopped to help, but it had happened only moments earlier and there were no emergency workers around. I pulled over to see if I could help, but there didn't seem to be anything I could do. The man who'd been driving the truck was lying on the side of the road where someone was working over him and a couple people were over by the wrecked car. There were others, witnesses I suppose standing around already, so rather than be in the way, I just turned and carefully drove through the intersection and up the hill.

I was feeling so helpless, and struck by the thought that there was nothing that could be done that I was overwhelmed and started crying. The emergency vehicles were coming towards me and a few minutes later as I drove into town I saw the rescue helicopter flying towards the scene. I could feel both a psychic and emotional impact in my chest. Though I didn't know it at that moment, I found out later that woman in the car was dead at the scene. She was a worker at the bank I'd been at, on her way there and had driven straight through the stop sign without seeing it. The man from the truck was eventually OK, though he was seriously injured. It was the image of him, lying there unconscious on the roadside, with the snow falling on him that kept coming back to me all day.

All during the day while I was working I was overwhelmed with grief. I was alone there, and didn't have to put on any pretenses, so I just let if flow through me. It came in waves a couple times an hour in the form of pure despair. I thought about the man lying helpless and I cried. I thought about my father, who'd recently died and cried some more. I thought about my family situation which had been crumbling around me and cried over that, and this went on periodically for several hours. By the time I left work it was dark, and I was just about spent while I drove the 20 miles back home. As I was exiting the interstate, the feeling of despair came over me again. By then I was wiped out. I felt like I'd cried for every trauma I'd experienced in every past life...and suddenly the light bulb came on. I thought "wait - a - minute", and that was all it took to break the spell. I could feel the "rider" that was still attached to me and also how it had been triggering exactly the thoughts that would evoke the emotional frequency of grief.

I've had psychic attacks before and used different methods for dealing with them, but this time I didn't pray or ask for any assistance. Instead I calmly set the intent to drive back to the scene of the accident and leave it there, which is what I did. As I drove through the intersection, which was cleaned up and empty, I simply turned, and as I drove back up that hill again, I could feel that it was gone.

When I "looked" back on the situation, I was able to discern what had happened. I saw the creature, some kind of elemental that had a wormlike appearance. It was clear, like it made out of water, and swam through the air. There had actually been a group, or cloud of them, hovering over the accident scene, and they'd been attracted to the emotional energy of the traumatic circumstances. It didn't feel evil, but it was a parasite. It held a kind of intelligence which felt like that of an animal...but simple, like a mosquito or a leech. All it needed was the instinct of how to push my grief buttons and it had me for a meal all day. I'm not very studied in mythology, but I've been told there are stories about creatures like this and names for them, though no one has been able to point me to those.

I hope this isn't too long, but I felt I needed to relate the circumstances to better illuminate the nature of the parasite. It was definitely siphoning my energy, but in some way it was healing as well, because in the days after that I was emptied of the feeling of trauma...which often seems like it’s a background layer to my being. I do think we come into this dimension already traumatized. I've never had this happen again, but I think it's good to be aware that some of the emotional siphoning going on isn't being done by other people, sorcerers, evil spirits or astral machinery. It also happens in a somewhat organic manner.

[Czymra]

I hope this isn't too long, but I felt I needed to relate the circumstances to better illuminate the nature of the parasite. It was definitely siphoning my energy, but in some way it was healing as well, because in the days after that I was emptied of the feeling of trauma...which often seems like it’s a background layer to my being. I do think we come into this dimension already traumatized. I've never had this happen again, but I think it's good to be aware that some of the emotional siphoning going on isn't being done by other people, sorcerers, evil spirits or astral machinery. It also happens in a somewhat organic manner.

It's this last part that I find most revealing, and no, it's not too long... see above.
In fact, it might be just what's necessary to get to the ground of this, sharing those stories of being drained and having someone that listens always uncovers more than was thought before, I think.

I find it interesting, that you say that the parasite wasn't evil as such, and that the experience was in a way, healing. It is exactly that which has been going through my head today, however I would have never thought of returning to the accident and 'bringing the parasite home'.

Both your experience and mine seem to confirm that emotional energy isn't only inherent as a charge in the body but can also detach itself, being left behind like garbage.
I had the following thoughts come to me:
On this plane, it seems as if emotions work in fact like electrical charges. As we carry them and move around, these charges jump from bearer to bearer, what could explain the sudden anger discharges without reason that many of us know... this general 'scapegoating' that seems so inherent to human nature.
On another plane, maybe it is possible that the energies or their products (garbage and 'love and light'?) actually are left behind, sort of hovering in the ether, ready to be picked up by another electrically charged magnet that has a receptive polarisation.
I hope you get the picture.

However, I wonder, if there is a syphoning going on that is actually directed, especially in a case as you described it sun-toon, there needs to be an element that picks up those traces of emotion in the ether and forwards them, a sort of scavenger or parasite as you call them.

There are two concepts that support this in my mind, the first already mentioned, that emotional energies don't only swing as part of one's presence/aura but actually detach under certain conditions.
The second is the absence of any kinetic/intentional force giving a vector or speed to that released emotion, especially in this case of an accident. So to say, the absence of a ritual that focuses attention, the absence of a 'wormhole' that does the syphoning.

This may be spoken in the blue, admitted, but I would highly welcome anybody who would wish to share his/her experience along these lines or correct my model.

Thanks for all your collaboration!

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by Czymra

I find it interesting, that you say that the parasite wasn't evil as such, and that the experience was in a way, healing. It is exactly that which has been going through my head today, however I would have never thought of returning to the accident and 'bringing the parasite home'.

Well, I didn't really think it lived there. I could just as well have left it at the truck stop at the freeway exit where I noticed it. Going back to the scene was a way creating a situation for myself that gave me a few minutes to prepare the alchemy, and also of balancing the reality of the accident, which I knew would be all cleaned up and looking normal.

Originally Posted by Czymra

Both your experience and mine seem to confirm that emotional energy isn't only inherent as a charge in the body but can also detach itself, being left behind like garbage.
I had the following thoughts come to me:
On this plane, it seems as if emotions work in fact like electrical charges. As we carry them and move around, these charges jump from bearer to bearer, what could explain the sudden anger discharges without reason that many of us know... this general 'scapegoating' that seems so inherent to human nature.

On another plane, maybe it is possible that the energies or their products (garbage and 'love and light'?) actually are left behind, sort of hovering in the ether, ready to be picked up by another electrically charged magnet that has a receptive polarisation.
I hope you get the picture.

I do. This makes sense to me, more that the detachment angle you mention first.
I was thinking of it like the radiance of a lightbulb, one which some people can see as an aspect of our auras, but from 4d it might be much more profound. So...as with light or electrical charges the emissions can be collected and stored using various means, whether organic, chemical or mechanical.

I don't think it "detaches" any more than light waves detach from the sun...although I suppose it's true that the particle element of light, its photons, could be considered detached. What if, in the next higher vibrational plane, there was a more viscous or even solid element to the emanations?

Originally Posted by Czymra

However, I wonder, if there is a syphoning going on that is actually directed, especially in a case as you described it sun-toon, there needs to be an element that picks up those traces of emotion in the ether and forwards them, a sort of scavenger or parasite as you call them.

There are two concepts that support this in my mind, the first already mentioned, that emotional energies don't only swing as part of one's presence/aura but actually detach under certain conditions.
The second is the absence of any kinetic/intentional force giving a vector or speed to that released emotion, especially in this case of an accident. So to say, the absence of a ritual that focuses attention, the absence of a 'wormhole' that does the syphoning.

As with any other source of energy, there are probably different rates of efficiency at which the emissions can be collected. Possibly much of the time they're not collected at all, being of the wrong wavelength or of some other condition that makes them unusable.
On a related note, I think the overall field of all the emotional energy being produced by 6 billion people is affecting the planet both physically and energetically, and that because we're in general so out of balance with the natural order, it may be a worse form of pollution than almost anything else we create. If this is true then the opposite effect would occur, if as 6 billion emotional generators, we produced a balanced and loving emotional field.

There's another aspect of this that I find intriguing. What is the source is of emotional energy in the first place? I don't think humans create it, but that it is created in some elemental form by the earth or through our integration with 3d manifestation. We then transform it, through a natural alchemical process, into various varieties and frequencies, depending on how we feel. This is the aspect that's being influenced in the interests of making the planet a loosh farm.

So what is this stuff? Obviously living creatures don't need it to live, and it's mainly humans who seem to be producing it.

Originally Posted by Czymra

This may be spoken in the blue, admitted, but I would highly welcome anybody who would wish to share his/her experience along these lines or correct my model.Thanks for all your collaboration!

Yes it would be great if others offered input on this, especially some who dropped out of the discussion earlier for whatever reasons...since we've now taken it in some other directions.

[Dakini]

Originally Posted by Czymra

I've asked this several times and never got a real response so I figure this deserves its own thread.

Can somebody point out or refer other sources as to how exactly spiritual energy can be syphoned through mere attention? This seems to be a statement that's always left hanging in the air.

I have read the thread...It seems you didn't get much satisfaction.

Maybe the operative word here is "can" vs. another word, 'will.'
Because there may be people on the forum who know how to do this, but will they really share that knowledge on a forum? I didn't think so.

And if they can do such a thing, they are highly developed adepts in either spiritual matters or magical matters. Which means it has probably taken them years and years of practice and devotion in order for this ability to come to fruition. So simply telling you what to read or giving you instructions over the internet won't confer that degree or give you the understanding you so seek.

Also, depending on what your definition of the word "spiritual" is, you will get many different kinds of answers. There is much discussed on PA forum that is spiritualistic; not so much that is deeply 'spiritual.'

In general, when one asks for a 'spiritual power' they are often asking for
some kind of psychic power - and this doesn't mean this is innately spiritual.

Teachers show the student when the student is ready. Gaining power for power's sake isn't spiritual. So the teacher - the adept, will see that the student is not yet ready bc s/he only wants the power and not the Spirit. It is your intention, your practice, your devotion to Spirit which can possibly gain you spiritual - type 'power.' Spirit ultimately chooses who will gain "spiritual power," not the seeker.

It is completely possible to siphon energy in a non-spiritual way. Is this what you are really asking? Those skilled in occult and magical matters would be more willing to share and you can become a student of one of them and find those books on any bookshelf.

The very clear thing about your question is that you have written it - and asked it - and then asked it here - How can Spiritual energy be (had) through attention. To me, this is a good sign. It starts with the question, and with your intention and practice, it may unfold within you over time.

Spiritual seekers - those on that path will confess that one may pray, meditate for years, read, ask, seek, seek, seek and not ever come to know Spirit. Because the control of this experience is not in our hands. The Mystics - those who have had the experience of The Divine have written about it - and the paradoxical essence of its thorny path.

Those seekers on the path to The Divine who find themselves progressing will come to acquire spiritual gifts and power - and each of them, if they are bent on one thing and one Thing only - The Divine - will be willing to give up any and all spiritual power if and when that time comes to be closer to The Divine. Just because one has acquired these psychic abilities, makes him/her no closer to Spirit - as you have said.

My humble two cents.

Interesting questions, as always, Czymra.

[Czymra]

Dakini, first and foremost, thank you for joining. We are too lonely out here.

Your post certainly helps guide this post as it defines intentions behind what I am asking. Although I never really had interest in the purpose or ends of the 'art of syphoning' I feel I should clarify some things.

Originally Posted by Dakini

I have read the thread...It seems you didn't get much satisfaction.

Did you miss the orgasmic entry of sun-toon?

Maybe the operative word here is "can" vs. another word, 'will.'
Because there may be people on the forum who know how to do this, but will they really share that knowledge on a forum? I didn't think so.

You're quite right, but I never expected those people to come forward. I seek to discuss this matter with other wanderers. As you say yourself, there is no ultimate learning or result from discussing things. My intention here is to build a model. More on that later.

And if they can do such a thing, they are highly developed adepts in either spiritual matters or magical matters. Which means it has probably taken them years and years of practice and devotion in order for this ability to come to fruition. So simply telling you what to read or giving you instructions over the internet won't confer that degree or give you the understanding you so seek.

See, this is something I can't wrap my head around. Put the magical matter to the side. I have no deeper interest in the people who are convinced that magic is 'the thing'. But those people that you refer to as being 'highly developed' are anything but spiritual in my eyes. If anyone deserves my anger it is them right beside the rest of ignorance's disciples.
I've heard of highly experienced martial artists, that can do the most astounding things, yet they're racist. I've heard of spiritual gurus that may levitate, yet they abuse their wives. If I allow myself to wholeheartedly judge a thing, then it is this hypocrisy.

Also, depending on what your definition of the word "spiritual" is, you will get many different kinds of answers. There is much discussed on PA forum that is spiritualistic; not so much that is deeply 'spiritual.'
In general, when one asks for a 'spiritual power' they are often asking for
some kind of psychic power - and this doesn't mean this is innately spiritual.

You're spot on of course. I myself wouldn't want to describe anything 'psychic' as spiritual but I must admit, it's another abused term. I suppose the flaw is within the 'spirit' possibly referring to 'ghostly' matters, as in etheric, astral and the like, rather as in my understanding of it, 'the essence' of man (or what we are).

Teachers show the student when the student is ready. Gaining power for power's sake isn't spiritual. So the teacher - the adept, will see that the student is not yet ready bc s/he only wants the power and not the Spirit. It is your intention, your practice, your devotion to Spirit which can possibly gain you spiritual - type 'power.' Spirit ultimately chooses who will gain "spiritual power," not the seeker.

This may be true, and yes, my teachers have appeared when I was ready, however they never held me back. True teachers never said 'no you can't do that yet'... they led me, they helped me and they warned me if need be... but they never dictated a program. It is these people that I am eternally grateful to, yes right, eternally.
No, these people aren't perfect, but they give it their all, and we should all do so.

It is completely possible to siphon energy in a non-spiritual way. Is this what you are really asking? Those skilled in occult and magical matters would be more willing to share and you can become a student of one of them and find those books on any bookshelf.

I am not interested in learning how to syphon other people for their energy. I'm sure I can come up with enough mind games all on my own if that was my intent. No, if I ask to understand the concept, it is so I can escape this loop.

Let me illustrate this closer here. We all heard of the story of the boats of the Spaniards out in the waters before America, yet the natives wouldn't be able to see the boats. If you don't know the story, maybe you can Google it, it's a prime example, and one I think we need a word for.
A word that describes the necessity of a concept that allows 'stuff' to be perceptible within the paradigm. We all have unlearned seeing, hearing, feeling, by having been forced to learn all that we see hear and feel now.
I wish to unlearn the learned again, so I may yet again return to my roots, to my essence. My current knowledge in fact is what builds the bars to my own prison. My understanding of the world right now is based on concepts that are entirely 3D. What is discussed on this forum then often is bunched upon our 3D understanding... and then we get all this 'research' blah that, as Astralwalker put it so nicely, is more based our our belief system than actuality.

Now I don't have the illusion that I can unlearn a concept by learning another, no. I rather hope to learn of a concept and let those ideas break down my understanding of the 3D. It is a matter of deconstructing things by, hopefully, opening up a new layer of experience that was unaccessible to me before, so that these new experiences can then in turn inform my paradigm.

Yet, at the moment I'm told that there are ship out there on the water. I'm squinting hard, but I don't see a thing. Tell me... what are ships? How do they work? They can do what? Float? Don't they have to move their arms and legs? I see! We have such too! Now I see them! But they are so large! We never had such large ones? How comes they can still float, they must be heavy!

So, as you can see due to the wonderful combined effort of sun-toon's and mine we're approaching a model. Is it right? Probably not, but there is some way of envisioning what's going on. Some way that allows me to grasp what is being discussed without just saying "yeah, they take energy alright, and then they put it somewhere else".
I know that no one can prove it, but you don't need to prove me that ships float to explain to me some of the principles. One could even use a parable or an allegory to get at it. Anything that works!

The very clear thing about your question is that you have written it - and asked it - and then asked it here - How can Spiritual energy be (had) through attention. To me, this is a good sign. It starts with the question, and with your intention and practice, it may unfold within you over time.

Well, it does unfold indeed. And this is where it gets interesting as we had different kinds of syphoning here. In fact, as I alluded to in my lengthy post that obviously scared some people away, when talking about syphoning, one must account for all energetic transference. That means, how does energy float at all? Does it curse, does it beam, is it left behind? Does it manifest something that's left behind?
This interfaces with the question of how to use one's energy most efficiently, Tao comes to mind, but even the matter of being stressed or not, being tense or not, being open to the stream or not.

Why is it that I can feel some people's energy as they are close to me and other's not? Is it my rejection or lack of acceptance? Is it more pragmatic like, we are or the same polarisation? Do we not have energy levels that are different enough from each other? All these things never seem to be discussed! It's just 'yeah all is energy'. Right.

Spiritual seekers - those on that path will confess that one may pray, meditate for years, read, ask, seek, seek, seek and not ever come to know Spirit. Because the control of this experience is not in our hands. The Mystics - those who have had the experience of The Divine have written about it - and the paradoxical essence of its thorny path.

Yes, yes. This is most frustrating and the frustration is probably both, our driver and teacher. I am rather convinced that so far, I'm more interested in the thrill of seeing spirits or feeling an aura. I tell them "I'll put it to good use." but I don't know what that use is yet. I am constantly trying to 'see' things rather then letting go. Yes it's difficult. As you say...

Those seekers on the path to The Divine who find themselves progressing will come to acquire spiritual gifts and power - and each of them, if they are bent on one thing and one Thing only - The Divine - will be willing to give up any and all spiritual power if and when that time comes to be closer to The Divine. Just because one has acquired these psychic abilities, makes him/her no closer to Spirit - as you have said.

What strikes me is that things aren't shared. Now with most people on this board, I am simply not attuned with all the stories that develop from meditation. Maybe it's just hard to describe. I can understand that. However, a friend of mine said that most people that are really advanced don't share their 'amazing stories' so they don't frustrate others. He gave me an example: "What if someone who meditated one year suddenly got the most amazing trips, and another who meditated 40 years got almost nothing...? It's like talking about 'how great sex was' to somebody that doesn't have any."

I can see the point, okay, but really... if those people are spiritually advanced I'm not frustrated at all. I only get frustrated when someone tries to tell me how great they are by conveying these stories. It's another case of 'fake spirituality' (or potency for the other example).

If I'm motivated to learn something, and I see someone else do it better, I am sped up doubly by seeing how they do it, and saying to myself "Wow! I wanna do that. Let's give it a try!"
Admittedly, this is easier with 3D matters that are actually tangible. But maybe I can entrain my focus to another person's focus, and thus s/he could guide me, as to them as a more developed person, things have actually become tangible?

This happens to me with 3D matters, but on the spiritual side, it seems to be all crooks.
So it's back to figuring this out myself.... with your help, sun-toons, 777, oedilroed, anybody that will bother to throw a piece in, whether it is with good or ill intention, I do not care, for those who are willing to grow, will grow.

I merely hope that we that we are here at Avalon, share this, and learn together from each other. I'm much more interested in that than worrying about the next law being passed.

Excuse me if I offended anybody with this, I try to speak from my heart but not all is pure... yet.
Czymra


My humble two cents.

Interesting questions, as always, Czymra.[/QUOTE]

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by Czymra

Did you miss the orgasmic entry of sun-toon

Well this sheds some light on one of the problems I'm having in my life. I actually am having great orgasms, it's just that I'm having them on the internet without knowing it.

Originally Posted by Dakini

Maybe the operative word here is "can" vs. another word, 'will.' Because there may be people on the forum who know how to do this, but will they really share that knowledge on a forum? I didn't think so.

Czymra, I'm happy that you indicate you were asking the "syphoning" question not because you were looking for instructions, but as I assumed, because you wanted to know how it works as energetic process.

Just my opinion, but I don't think it would be appropriate to ask for assistance like that here, though such conversations do go on endlessly in some venues. Check out the mind control forums sometime...not the ones from people who are escaping the clutches, but the ones hosted and populated by controllers. They're a wonderful incentive for the need to learn everything about keeping control of your energy.

Originally Posted by Czymra

See, this is something I can't wrap my head around. Put the magical matter to the side. I have no deeper interest in the people who are convinced that magic is 'the thing'. But those people that you refer to as being 'highly developed' are anything but spiritual in my eyes. If anyone deserves my anger it is them right beside the rest of ignorance's disciples.
I've heard of highly experienced martial artists, that can do the most astounding things, yet they're racist. I've heard of spiritual gurus that may levitate, yet they abuse their wives. If I allow myself to wholeheartedly judge a thing, then it is this hypocrisy.

...another chapter in my imaginary book: "The 8th dimensional sphincter-hat".

Originally Posted by Czymra

I wish to unlearn the learned again, so I may yet again return to my roots, to my essence. My current knowledge in fact is what builds the bars to my own prison. My understanding of the world right now is based on concepts that are entirely 3D.

I don't think it's about unlearning anything, at least on purpose, and you can't know too much (though you can know too much for your own good). We can be too deep within the rational mind and not expansive enough intuitively....or the opposite for that matter. If you feel like you're too locked into rational thinking, there are ways to blow that paradigm out of the water.
The problem out here in the woo-hoo exchange is usually more about having a lack of some kind of rational framework for an overload of intuition. I think that's what you're feeling in your disattachment to the meditators. It's all about balance.

I once told a friend that I thought intuition trumps intellect...and he shot back with "yeah, perfect intution".

Originally Posted by Czymra

A friend of mine said that most people that are really advanced don't share their 'amazing stories' so they don't frustrate others. He gave me an example: "What if someone who meditated one year suddenly got the most amazing trips, and another who meditated 40 years got almost nothing...? It's like talking about 'how great sex was' to somebody that doesn't have any."

I can see the point, okay, but really... if those people are spiritually advanced I'm not frustrated at all. I only get frustrated when someone tries to tell me how great they are by conveying these stories. It's another case of 'fake spirituality' (or potency for the other example).

People who are truly advanced share their amazing stories in appropriate ways. They don't force them on other people at dinner parties, or tell them to those who would misuse the information, but they don't keep it to themselves either. I don't care how expansive someone thinks their vision is, all I can see around here is the blind leading the blind. Nobody's that much more special than anyone else.

Originally Posted by Czymra

Why is it that I can feel some people's energy as they are close to me and other's not? Is it my rejection or lack of acceptance? Is it more pragmatic like, we are or the same polarisation? Do we not have energy levels that are different enough from each other? All these things never seem to be discussed! It's just 'yeah all is energy'. Right.

It is all energy...but that statement has to be the classic metaphysical conversation closer. It's a huge subject, really the only subject that matters to me, because all we can take out of here is the experience of the energy we've encountered. How is this energy created? How does one shape it and project it? How do we store it, give it away, take it in? What makes some energy good, other energy bad? How do we keep ourselves from being controlled or absorbed by by external forces? What happens when we replace the word "energy" with consciousness in all those questions? Does consciousness precede manifestation? If it does a lot of Darwinists are going to be disappointed.

Originally Posted by Czymra

Excuse me if I offended anybody with this, I try to speak from my heart but not all is pure... yet.

At first I couldn't understand what you meant here, but...hmmm now I do, and it goes for me too.

[Czymra]

Well this sheds some light on one of the problems I'm having in my life. I actually am having great orgasms, it's just that I'm having them on the internet without knowing it.

Are you serious?

I don't think it's about unlearning anything, at least on purpose, and you can't know too much (though you can know too much for your own good). We can be too deep within the rational mind and not expansive enough intuitively....or the opposite for that matter. If you feel like you're too locked into rational thinking, there are ways to blow that paradigm out of the water.

Bring it on. I'd like to blow it out of the water indeed.

The problem out here in the woo-hoo exchange is usually more about having a lack of some kind of rational framework for an overload of intuition. I think that's what you're feeling in your disattachment to the meditators. It's all about balance.

I once told a friend that I thought intuition trumps intellect...and he shot back with "yeah, perfect intution".

The first statement is exactly what I refer to, but the second I don't get.

People who are truly advanced share their amazing stories in appropriate ways. They don't force them on other people at dinner parties, or tell them to those who would misuse the information, but they don't keep it to themselves either. I don't care how expansive someone thinks their vision is, all I can see around here is the blind leading the blind. Nobody's that much more special than anyone else.

Well said.

It is all energy...but that statement has to be the classic metaphysical conversation closer. It's a huge subject, really the only subject that matters to me, because all we can take out of here is the experience of the energy we've encountered. How is this energy created? How does one shape it and project it? How do we store it, give it away, take it in? What makes some energy good, other energy bad? How do we keep ourselves from being controlled or absorbed by by external forces? What happens when we replace the word "energy" with consciousness in all those questions? Does consciousness precede manifestation? If it does a lot of Darwinists are going to be disappointed.

Another set of excellent questions.

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by sun-toon´

I don't think it's about unlearning anything, at least on purpose, and you can't know too much (though you can know too much for your own good). We can be too deep within the rational mind and not expansive enough intuitively....or the opposite for that matter. If you feel like you're too locked into rational thinking, there are ways to blow that paradigm out of the water.

I don't really want to talk about that too much on the board, though somebody might. I don't know how deeply you've looked into the work of Terence Mckenna, but he's a good example of someone who was highly intellectual, but understood that the true nature of reality was not accessible through speech and human language. Yet he tried valiantly.

I don't grok a lot of his insights, but I understand enough to relate it to my own moments of profound intuitional intensity...moments of having my left/right brain balance upset to the point of barely being able to understand how get a key into a lock. Was I wasted? Not really...it was just a different kind of perception, lucid but almost incomprehensible through rational evaluation. The key and the lock barely exist there. It can take a while to process that sort of information and we never get a large percentage of it, but it can be processed and does then affect the rational paradigm and shifts it.

This is what's going on with the whole planet through this "quickening" process. It's like someone has put ayahuasca into the water supply. Most people are still clinging to the matrix dream with all their might...."please, fix the economy, protect us from violence, God help us". Others are visualizing every freaking possibility from every imaginable circumstance, real or otherwise. We don't know who's crazy and who's lucid yet but as some of us are desperately trying to parse the visionary stream and figure out what of it actually fits, though just by plugging into it, we're changing the nature of everything else.

There will be no fix however, that I'm sure of. The current matrix stream of consciousness is disintegrating, and all directions are forward. If you ask around there are an increasing number of people who are aware of this, mundane folks who would never look at websites like this. They all know something is up and they're waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I once told a friend that I thought intuition trumps intellect...and he shot back with "yeah, perfect intution".

The difference between a visionary and a schizophrenic is the measure of rational thinking and logic that the visionary applies to analyze his intuitions. The loony bins are full of powerful intuitives who are lost in them, without balance or reason, and they've forgotten where they are and how it works here. OTOH, if you were able to acquire perfect intuition, you would simply KNOW. There would be no need for the rational part of the mind. This is a state of mind the mystics talk of and I do believe it exists.
However much of a goal it may be to access that kernel of perception, it doesn't seem like it would be that interesting to permanently stay there. It would be a nifty trick though, and may be the only way to know anything for sure.

I've gotten a bit far from the subject of energy siphoning, but it is a conversation and this is where it's gone. It's all a process of expansion and integration. You're feeling a need to expand beyond your boundaries, and I think that's good. The fact that you've already expanded far beyond the norm is even better. Somebody has to go ahead and find a direction.

I think humanity's been siphoned since the beginning. Part of integrating this shift of consciousness is to break that pattern through an expanding awareness of how reality works. Acquiring that awareness requires breaking out of the program we've been provided with. That involves awakening the intuitive faculties and using new insights to reevaluate what we've been told is real. This can be dangerous, but the only real worry IMO is in losing our sovereign identities in the process, and I think there's a greater threat of that by staying within the program than there is in blowing it up.

[Dakini]

Originally Posted by Czymra

Did you miss the orgasmic entry of sun-toon?

Darn, must've missed the fireworks.

Originally Posted by Czymra

See, this is something I can't wrap my head around. Put the magical matter to the side. I have no deeper interest in the people who are convinced that magic is 'the thing'. But those people that you refer to as being 'highly developed' are anything but spiritual in my eyes. If anyone deserves my anger it is them right beside the rest of ignorance's disciples.

I've heard of highly experienced martial artists, that can do the most astounding things, yet they're racist. I've heard of spiritual gurus that may levitate, yet they abuse their wives. If I allow myself to wholeheartedly judge a thing, then it is this hypocrisy.

Grasshopper... put your anger aside a second and realize that there are some pure souls out there who are 'advanced' without being fakes, charlatans, or crooks...it is clear you have met very few.

Originally Posted by Czymra

You're spot on of course. I myself wouldn't want to describe anything 'psychic' as spiritual but I must admit, it's another abused term. I suppose the flaw is within the 'spirit' possibly referring to 'ghostly' matters, as in etheric, astral and the like, rather as in my understanding of it, 'the essence' of man (or what we are).

So my assumption is that you are using the term "spiritual" here as things that pertain to the unseen, the mystery. Let's just say for conversation's sake that the underpinnings of the word have to do with The Absolute, and all the other phenomena that people experience that has nothing to do with The Absolute is "spiritualistic".

Originally Posted by Czymra

I am not interested in learning how to syphon other people for their energy. I'm sure I can come up with enough mind games all on my own if that was my intent. No, if I ask to understand the concept, it is so I can escape this loop.

It sounds like you want to escape the loop of having other people manipulate you on an energetic level. This is doable, but remember that we are all connected energetically to begin with. So perhaps what you want is someone to help you with effective protective methods.

Originally Posted by Czymra

I wish to unlearn the learned again, so I may yet again return to my roots, to my essence. My current knowledge in fact is what builds the bars to my own prison. My understanding of the world right now is based on concepts that are entirely 3D. What is discussed on this forum then often is bunched upon our 3D understanding... and then we get all this 'research' blah that, as Astralwalker put it so nicely, is more based our our belief system than actuality.

Now I don't have the illusion that I can unlearn a concept by learning another, no. I rather hope to learn of a concept and let those ideas break down my understanding of the 3D. It is a matter of deconstructing things by, hopefully, opening up a new layer of experience that was unaccessible to me before, so that these new experiences can then in turn inform my paradigm.

We are also bound by ego and by the Mind. And it is clear you have a great mind, Czymra. So all of what you have an intense desire for may in the processs be limited by the mind. Because at some point, when you have built the model with your mind, know that the model itself may be intrinsically limited. For the mind cannot grasp one's true essence. However, one may take this growing model of understanding and begin the work of Practice and Spiritual Cultivation - applying what you are learning. If we do not practice with pure intent on the work, we may not advance to our satisfaction. Just reading and learning and talking does not advance us.

Originally Posted by Czymra

Yet, at the moment I'm told that there are ship out there on the water. I'm squinting hard, but I don't see a thing. Tell me... what are ships? How do they work? They can do what? Float? Don't they have to move their arms and legs? I see! We have such too! Now I see them! But they are so large! We never had such large ones? How comes they can still float, they must be heavy!

So, as you can see due to the wonderful combined effort of sun-toon's and mine we're approaching a model. Is it right? Probably not, but there is some way of envisioning what's going on. Some way that allows me to grasp what is being discussed without just saying "yeah, they take energy alright, and then they put it somewhere else". I know that no one can prove it, but you don't need to prove me that ships float to explain to me some of the principles. One could even use a parable or an allegory to get at it. Anything that works! ... I know that no one can prove it, but you don't need to prove me that ships float to explain to me some of the principles. One could even use a parable or an allegory to get at it. Anything that works!

Yes! Yes! Seekers always want first hand experience of the Proof. And if it were not written about or discussed by the greats, we would not necessarily be driven to its Source! What I am reminding is that the principles can be grasped by the mind to some degree and then you must practice these principles. Those with the greatest minds can often find the path the hardest. They want the experience, not just the theory. At some point, the Mystics put down the books and the learning and began the process of doing.

Originally Posted by Czymra

Yes, yes. This is most frustrating and the frustration is probably both, our driver and teacher. I am rather convinced that so far, I'm more interested in the thrill of seeing spirits or feeling an aura. I tell them "I'll put it to good use." but I don't know what that use is yet. I am constantly trying to 'see' things rather then letting go. Yes it's difficult. As you say...

This is where some people start...the curiosity about the spiritualistic phenomena around the unseen. But don't make the mistake of imagining that seeing things or beings, seeing auras, creating magic, manifesting, etc. are the end result of anything remotely spiritual. In fact, these things are the signposts that one needs to keep progressing, that one is not near enough to the goal. The ego will often create spiritualistic phenomena - yes, the ego -
it will create distractions to advancement. Because true advancement of the soul threatens the ego. So the ego will want to create all kinds of phenomena to keep you attached and very interested in that level of your
progress. Heck, why progress? Life is SO much more interesting here. And now I'm special. But very few phenomena, some say none, at this juncture come from Spirit.

Originally Posted by Czymra

What strikes me is that things aren't shared. Now with most people on this board, I am simply not attuned with all the stories that develop from meditation. Maybe it's just hard to describe. I can understand that. However, a friend of mine said that most people that are really advanced don't share their 'amazing stories' so they don't frustrate others. He gave me an example: "What if someone who meditated one year suddenly got the most amazing trips, and another who meditated 40 years got almost nothing...? It's like talking about 'how great sex was' to somebody that doesn't have any."

An adept meditation teacher may tell this friend to "keep meditating." Remember, advanced meditators will cross over into this world of illusion and it is the goal to avoid becoming attached to all the bells and whistles of the spiritual cultivation process. What is frustrating is remaining at this level of meditation where all the stuff is happening. S/he should push through this stage - it is not a symbol of being 'advanced.'

Originally Posted by Czymra

I can see the point, okay, but really... if those people are spiritually advanced I'm not frustrated at all. I only get frustrated when someone tries to tell me how great they are by conveying these stories. It's another case of 'fake spirituality' (or potency for the other example).

It is only natural to be excited by these bells and whistles and want to share the undescribable to those closest - however - it is a sign that one is opening up, a beginner, not that one has reached any destination. Those that spill the beans early on usually regret doing that - many of us have made that mistake. Because things change, we evolve, we realize over time that things that happen may be coming from the mind and the ego. Talking about it to anyone who is not one's mentor can end up being a mistake. The cultivation process takes so many twists and turns over the years.

Originally Posted by Czymra

If I'm motivated to learn something, and I see someone else do it better, I am sped up doubly by seeing how they do it, and saying to myself "Wow! I wanna do that. Let's give it a try!"

Admittedly, this is easier with 3D matters that are actually tangible. But maybe I can entrain my focus to another person's focus, and thus s/he could guide me, as to them as a more developed person, things have actually become tangible?

This is really a very big question. Who to choose as one's teacher. There are so few these days, I agree. But it can't stop you from reading and practicing. Your choice at this point is where to start and what kind of teachings to focus on - New Age, spiritualistic stuff or the spiritual stuff. The New Age stuff will teach you to see beings and manifest - you can be the Magician if you like or you can attempt to be more.

Originally Posted by Czymra

Excuse me if I offended anybody with this, I try to speak from my heart but not all is pure... yet.

Yeah, that purification part is a bitch!

[Czymra]

Okay guys, the thread splices up somewhere here so allow me to weave things together to gain a little more coherence again and maybe I can manage to even support both discussions at the same time. I'll refer to 'old' quotes just to give this a proper vector. Let's go!

Let's start with 1. The actual issue of syphoning:

Czymra, I'm happy that you indicate you were asking the "syphoning" question not because you were looking for instructions, but as I assumed, because you wanted to know how it works as energetic process.

It sounds like you want to escape the loop of having other people manipulate you on an energetic level. This is doable, but remember that we are all connected energetically to begin with. So perhaps what you want is someone to help you with effective protective methods.

First, I'm aware that we are all one. I don't intend to cut myself off. Also, as I will ferociously defend later, I am trying to practice not just discuss.
I don't consider myself in a loop of energetic manipulation at the moment. I'm not in an abusive relationship that was forced unto me or that I have not recognised as such. This is not about saving myself at this point in time. It's about gaining insight, or rather, as I'm consistently trying to express, finding access to a way of getting real insight, outside of the mind and intellectualising.
In short, the model building is a matter of grasping dynamics that might go on 'out there' so I can recognise them when I encounter them. How else will I know the ships from swimming mountains?

We really should get back to this but it seems that we're yet again wound up in discussing the why at all and how, so here goes:

2. The matter of grasping 'energetics':

I don't think it's about unlearning anything, at least on purpose, and you can't know too much (though you can know too much for your own good). We can be too deep within the rational mind and not expansive enough intuitively....or the opposite for that matter. If you feel like you're too locked into rational thinking, there are ways to blow that paradigm out of the water.

We are also bound by ego and by the Mind. And it is clear you have a great mind, Czymra. So all of what you have an intense desire for may in the processs be limited by the mind. Because at some point, when you have built the model with your mind, know that the model itself may be intrinsically limited. For the mind cannot grasp one's true essence. However, one may take this growing model of understanding and begin the work of Practice and Spiritual Cultivation - applying what you are learning. If we do not practice with pure intent on the work, we may not advance to our satisfaction. Just reading and learning and talking does not advance us.

Sun-Toon's and Dakini's statement seem to oppose each other directly here.
Okay, I'm with you on hemisphere synchronisation, but something tells me that's not the whole deal. When you're synced, you're still operating that sync input on an old paradigm, aren't you?
As for the limited mind, I am aware of that, as I will try to explain again later, I'm not trying to gain actual insight through discussion, but find a pathway to that insight.
And believe me, I do practice, every day, out there in the world, not in the imagination of my head.

People who are truly advanced share their amazing stories in appropriate ways. They don't force them on other people at dinner parties, or tell them to those who would misuse the information, but they don't keep it to themselves either. I don't care how expansive someone thinks their vision is, all I can see around here is the blind leading the blind. Nobody's that much more special than anyone else.

An adept meditation teacher may tell this friend to "keep meditating." Remember, advanced meditators will cross over into this world of illusion and it is the goal to avoid becoming attached to all the bells and whistles of the spiritual cultivation process. What is frustrating is remaining at this level of meditation where all the stuff is happening. S/he should push through this stage - it is not a symbol of being 'advanced.'
It is only natural to be excited by these bells and whistles and want to share the undescribable to those closest - however - it is a sign that one is opening up, a beginner, not that one has reached any destination. Those that spill the beans early on usually regret doing that - many of us have made that mistake. Because things change, we evolve, we realize over time that things that happen may be coming from the mind and the ego. Talking about it to anyone who is not one's mentor can end up being a mistake. The cultivation process takes so many twists and turns over the years.

I'm with sun-toon on this one. Dakini, something strikes me from the words you write, also on the "The Open Secret" Thread. It's filled of words like 'adept' and 'master' and 'progress' and the respect for it. It makes me consider the possibility that you bought into this ascension stuff for too long to now let go of it, another sign of ego I would think. Another sign that I have become allergic to is calling others 'beginners'. I may have done that myself often a time, but just as often I have realised that it is only a matter for people trying to re-establish their own status quo. Yes, they are afraid of people that learn quicker than them because why would they have it easier or be more talented? It's not fair they probably think, those that learn too quickly have to be syphoned and confused on their path. "We're just testing them", these barriers are part of the path after all, aren't they?
Another ego trip?

No matter, and even though I probably blew your patience at this point, I would like to know how 'spilling the beans' can be a mistake. I can guess what you're getting at, but I'm not sure what the greater gain is. If more of us had such skills maybe there would actually be a real chance of turning the world toward something more positive. I mean, if we all were telepathic, if there were no secrets but only full collision and acutal emoting and sensing of the other, real empathy, no misunderstanding, how could that be any detriment to anybody?
Yeah you have to face yourself and get your heart ripped out, but it sounds like it's worth it.

This is where some people start...the curiosity about the spiritualistic phenomena around the unseen. But don't make the mistake of imagining that seeing things or beings, seeing auras, creating magic, manifesting, etc. are the end result of anything remotely spiritual. In fact, these things are the signposts that one needs to keep progressing, that one is not near enough to the goal. The ego will often create spiritualistic phenomena - yes, the ego -
it will create distractions to advancement. Because true advancement of the soul threatens the ego. So the ego will want to create all kinds of phenomena to keep you attached and very interested in that level of your
progress. Heck, why progress? Life is SO much more interesting here. And now I'm special. But very few phenomena, some say none, at this juncture come from Spirit.

I agree fully with you here Dakini, to the extent that I'm actually confused why you said what I treated before this. However, the level you are talking about isn't even in my reach yet. I see no entity anywhere in fact and I'm fine with that, because I'm at least aware that all that there is right now is my ego and mind playing on me.
Regarding the last paragraph on 'quick learning' however, I suppose I must admit that I'm trying to bypass all that ghost-seeing. Then again, I thought that manifesting things is the sh*t. Okay, there may be more but yet again it would put an end to enslavement on this planet!
So maybe bypassing is not possible, who knows. But I am asking my questions so that I may recognise the deeper truth beyond all the spiritualistic stuff. That is why I bring up the story of the ships floating on the water, so I may recognise that which isn't even visible to me yet. It isn't visible because I've completely shut it out of my spectrum of possibility, or maybe it was never there. Who knows. No matter this is about understanding how to actualise an insight, not gaining an insight through writing. I know that's not possible.

This is really a very big question. Who to choose as one's teacher. There are so few these days, I agree. But it can't stop you from reading and practicing. Your choice at this point is where to start and what kind of teachings to focus on - New Age, spiritualistic stuff or the spiritual stuff. The New Age stuff will teach you to see beings and manifest - you can be the Magician if you like or you can attempt to be more.

Now I do want to give you a hug. There you understand what I mean, that again, I'm confused why you even mentioned the other stuff. If I wanted to be a magician I'd do the 777 stuff. It doesn't feel right. I concluded that seeing auras and gaining information through RV and Akashic Records is a sensible step however, because if I suddenly sit outside and no food is on in the supermarkets, I'll have ways of knowing where to turn to. Fair enough, I can follow my intuition.
I do have a 'mentor' if you can call him that at the moment and he continues on blowing my mind but I'm still missing something, true interaction just isn't happening on this level, as you concluded yourself. Maybe that's why one can't grasp syphoning either? Are we already beyond being able to model anything? So far the astral stuff seemed rather conceivable.
Yes, all these things so far are just concepts and imaginations in my head. Be it telepathy, syphoning whatever.
The difference however is that telepathy, actually I can grasp that somehow already, syphoning, not entirely.
The point is: How can I even say this? Dakini, get me wrong this time, it's not understanding, it's not grasping, it's not modelling, it's not conceptualising or conceiving an idea, it's just finding a method that THEN allows me to somehow be (for lack of a better term) the ships, to gain REAL insight in PRACTICE.


The question though is, if you don't advocate learning these 'skills' what do you advocate?

[Czymra]

By the way Sun-Toon, I watched a Terrence McKenna before, that was the best video speech I've seen in some time.
Now I understand what's missing on the Nexus to annihilate hierarchy and dissent, a forthweekly orgy! Ah, life must have been sweet back then.

[solitaryman]

you had many answers of nice peoples telling you whath they think about your question.But you don't listen to what they tell you.You are not sastify with their answers.For me it means you have to find your own answers and stop syphoning other peoples.Bonne chance,hope you will find the answer by yourself.

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by Czymra

Sun-Toon's and Dakini's statement seem to oppose each other directly here.
Okay, I'm with you on hemisphere synchronisation, but something tells me that's not the whole deal. When you're synced, you're still operating that sync input on an old paradigm, aren't you?

Not necessarily. You could decide to operate under an entirely new paradigm without any hemispheric synchronization. I do understand that the mind can't be examined from the point of view of the mind. I'm just telling you, that from experience, I've learned the intuitive part of the mind, which may be actually reaching past the boundaries of mind, tends to bring information to the rational senses that appear at first to be disconnected and irrational, but upon integration, end up raising the plane of what used be logical.

Originally Posted by Dakini

This is where some people start...the curiosity about the spiritualistic phenomena around the unseen. But don't make the mistake of imagining that seeing things or beings, seeing auras, creating magic, manifesting, etc. are the end result of anything remotely spiritual. In fact, these things are the signposts that one needs to keep progressing, that one is not near enough to the goal. The ego will often create spiritualistic phenomena - yes, the ego -
it will create distractions to advancement. Because true advancement of the soul threatens the ego. So the ego will want to create all kinds of phenomena to keep you attached and very interested in that level of your
progress. Heck, why progress? Life is SO much more interesting here. And now I'm special. But very few phenomena, some say none, at this juncture come from Spirit.

Originally Posted by Czymra

I'm with sun-toon on this one. Dakini, something strikes me from the words you write, also on the "The Open Secret" Thread. It's filled of words like 'adept' and 'master' and 'progress' and the respect for it.

I don't grok any of these arbitrary definitions (from my PoV), like seeker, adept, master, etc, either...and "beginner" sounds condescending. I'm really lost in the perceived difference between "Spirit" and "spiritualistic". It's all spiritual to me. Right now my spirit, or consciousness as I usually call it, is experiencing the realm of 3d, filtering its reality through the "space suit" I've acquired which allows my higher frequency shells to function here without being crushed by the density.

I have no master, nor do I seek one. I've had a couple of temporary mentors, which was interesting, but I'm not seeking one of those either. I'm a sponge whenever I find someone who appears to have what I feel I need. I'm not going anywhere in particular, and I'm not looking for anything other than experience while I work on this project of trying to assure that this planet survives to continue it's long and potentially glorious evolutionary process. How can there be a destination in eternity? Experience is the gold.

Originally Posted by Czymra

I would like to know how 'spilling the beans' can be a mistake. I can guess what you're getting at, but I'm not sure what the greater gain is. If more of us had such skills maybe there would actually be a real chance of turning the world toward something more positive. I mean, if we all were telepathic, if there were no secrets but only full collision and acutal emoting and sensing of the other, real empathy, no misunderstanding, how could that be any detriment to anybody?

I don't think there's any such thing as "spilling the beans". There's really no possibility of understanding some expansion of consciousness until the platform that expansion is built upon is integrated. What I hear in this is the idea of secret knowledge that secretive groups have kept to themselves and shared with those who would play their game. There are no secrets. We all know everything. I see it all as a process of growing into a greater awareness the nuances of our Being.

Czymra...the bells and whistles are not always bells or whistles. Sometimes they're fleeting wisps of dreaming that blow past barely capturing our attention. If you want to become a magician, that would be a good way to discover more about the nature of about bells and whistles, because in essence we're all sorcerers. We are all manifestations of energy, and we're projecting that energy into every reality we inhabit at every moment of our existence. All the magician stuff that "magick" workers do is only one facet of the realm of your sorcerer self. RV, the akashic, writing to this group or making breakfast are other forms.

Personally, I can't get with any paradigm that says we need to go live in the part of ourselves that's beyond ego and mind, and beyond this plane of existence. I think what we need to be doing is integrating all of it to the best of our ability, bringing it into this continuum and experiencing this frame of reference to the maximum of our abilities. No realm is superior to another and no sovereign entity has a master. Here is where it's happening for us; here is where we've come for exactly this experience.
We do need to understand reality, because the truth of it is being hidden from us by those who believe themselves to be superior. And, to get back to the theme of the thread, we are being siphoned, and we do need to know how and why that's happening to us or it will continue until there's nothing left of humanity but slaves. Only through a clearer understanding of the workings of reality, can we do that.

The whole idea that it's a game of personal escape is a lie. The game is for all of us to awaken together. What are we going to do, go sit on a cloud and wait for the next 10 million years for our loved ones to get it?