WILL OUR OWN TROOPS and COPS TURN AGAINST US?

[THE eXchanger]

i predict, they will all, turn against themselves

dirty work, gets done best, by dirty people

that is a fact !!!

for "us", it will be "all hands off"

remember, this operates in circles,
within circles, within circles

eventually; when the outside edges
realise, what is blowing in "the winds"
they will very likely take two actions

1) turn inward, and, in doing so, will see this is wrong

(doing a job, and, getting paid for it, when you know it is wrong-is karmic)
and, you will go straight to hell, for doing it

it's time that many will start to sing / & blow their whistles

2) their aim, will be, to terminate the inner circle

they are like a bunch of ants,
climbing up a pin,
they have NO TRUST,
because they are NOT trustable,
nor, worthy of trusting,
and, they know that

WOW--that is 3 serious strikes, if this was a baseball game--they would be out !!!

and, there is NO ROOM,
at the top for any of them !!!

and, they are all climbing up different sides
of the same pin, at the same time

my prediction, under the light of this full moon
and, you can MARK my words on this:

i predict, they will all, turn against themselves

dirty work, gets done best, by dirty people

and, the shift, has happened -- the s*** has already hit many fans

what is blowing in the wind -- is going to topple them

i am susan
white lotus star
the eXchanger

[anthrovolution]

Look around. We have stopped training cops to be cops. Instead we train them to be soldiers. And we train our soldiers to be cops. They all have the wrong traiing so they don't know how to behave. The number of cases where cops break into the wrong houses, shoot the wrong people, and act like soldiers in a 'war' instead of peace officers is increasing. So I think if we train them as soldiers then all we have to do is identify an 'enemy' and they will just do their thing, whatever they have been trained to do. That 'enemy' could easily be you and me.

[THE eXchanger]

many of those ones, you import -- eXport them

[TranceAm]

I like exchangers reply and agree that the most hopeful thing to happen is a personal conscience appeal in the men handling the guns before they squeese the trigger..

However.

Having heard (Keep in mind hearsay, and second source peer verification.) that during enlisting, there is a question the potential soldiers have to answer.

The question is (non verbatim) "Would or could you shoot if necessary and ordered Americans?"
The ones answering "No" are stationed in a foreign country, the ones that answer "Yes" are stationed within the US.

This could have been a psy-ops statement to hook a little fear into the population.
Also keep in mind, as the press loses their characteristic of being an American while they wear their press card (Ref: Jesse Ventura Vid posted in another thread.) The American militairy and police could lose it while wearing the uniform and under orders.
And we all remember Ollie North.

[Slim]

Because they are trained to do what they are told, like most of the mindless,
they will even turn on their own family.

THEY WILL KILL YOU,
their masters tell them to....

Come on guys, we are on a site where we can speak TRUTH!!!

Something sadly lacking at this time.

Slim.

[oxjmaups2005xo]

its a dog eat dog world....

[fforest]

Police only know one thing,And that one thing is to follow orders.To do otherwise would be unthinkable...

Police=Order
The rest of mankind=Chaos
The Chaos must be turned into Order by what ever means necessary....
End of story.....

[punter2003]

An interesting thread. Of course they will do what they are told. We all know the power of the uniform , and the power that the person in the uniform feels. You only have to deal with a lesser form of the uniform traffic warden, security guard ect, to hear the phrase "im just following orders". They are conditioned with very crude forms of behaviour control to follow blindly regardless of the human being standing in front of them. We should all be very aware that with any goverments resources they can get there army and police to do anything. Psychology is the perfect weapon, it is undetectable, cheap, and easy.

[steve_johnson#985907-1]

this isn't a valid debate if you have found the road here you should know the answer. the police are more and more your enemy daily. the new wave of police are trained in a more foul manner than the SS. they feel entitled and when people feel entitled they run amok. they feel a vast need to stand above you and show they are above you .

[skyking]

Regarding Martial Law/Police State scenarios, consider this: There are 300 million people in America. 90% of all our military are overseas, the other 10% are keeping the military installations going on a skeleton crew basis. Backup for the regular forces is the National Guard which is made up of your neighbors and friends. Now, there are 14,000 gang members in south LA alone. In a time of 'unrest' it would take just about ALL of the existing military to contain just this one area. So, will a goon squad come breaking down your door in rural wherever to take your guns and haul you off to a 'camp'? Highly unlikely. Remember during Katrina that 40% of the police force abandoned their post to go home and protect their own family. As I have mentioned in other posts, spending time discussing all of these negative scenarios is keeping us focused on the dark side when we should be concentrating on positive solutions to the problems that currently face us.

[steve_johnson#985907-1]

Originally Posted by skyking

Regarding Martial Law/Police State scenarios, consider this: There are 300 million people in America. 90% of all our military are overseas, the other 10% are keeping the military installations going on a skeleton crew basis. Backup for the regular forces is the National Guard which is made up of your neighbors and friends. Now, there are 14,000 gang members in south LA alone. In a time of 'unrest' it would take just about ALL of the existing military to contain just this one area. So, will a goon squad come breaking down your door in rural wherever to take your guns and haul you off to a 'camp'? Highly unlikely. Remember during Katrina that 40% of the police force abandoned their post to go home and protect their own family. As I have mentioned in other posts, spending time discussing all of these negative scenarios is keeping us focused on the dark side when we should be concentrating on positive solutions to the problems that currently face us.

those 40% percent are the older coffee shop police officer you could carry a conversation with. the new guard is the SS. i live in texas, they come in groups of four and thrive on your fear.

[dolphin]

Originally Posted by skyking

Regarding Martial Law/Police State scenarios, consider this: There are 300 million people in America. 90% of all our military are overseas, the other 10% are keeping the military installations going on a skeleton crew basis. Backup for the regular forces is the National Guard which is made up of your neighbors and friends. Now, there are 14,000 gang members in south LA alone. In a time of 'unrest' it would take just about ALL of the existing military to contain just this one area. So, will a goon squad come breaking down your door in rural wherever to take your guns and haul you off to a 'camp'? Highly unlikely. Remember during Katrina that 40% of the police force abandoned their post to go home and protect their own family. As I have mentioned in other posts, spending time discussing all of these negative scenarios is keeping us focused on the dark side when we should be concentrating on positive solutions to the problems that currently face us.

----------
skyking...look at phil schneider's testimony on youtube, david icke, alex jones, etc. THEY ALREADY HAVE THOUSANDS OF UN TROOPS HERE. they brought them here to do the dirty work, bec. in case american troops won't turn on their own, the UN troops will (russians, germans, eastern european, etc.).

and i too don't want to create fear, but i just feel it's a duty to warn people. do you realize this is similar to the time of nazi germany?... if you do nothing to inform people and you know what's going to happen then you are complicit. and i agree, this forum is about TRUTH as unpleasant as that might be.

[Oiran]

I agree with your points, Dolphin. IF we reach a point of Martial Law, foreign military will step in to do the "dirty work," if need be.

Also, in reference to SkyKing's point, ("Now, there are 14,000 gang members in south LA alone. In a time of 'unrest' it would take just about ALL of the existing military to contain just this one area.") I have heard from several in-the-know sources that IF sh*t hits the fan, Los Angeles will be abandoned all together. I was told that LA, Atlanta and New York City have already been deemed, "Abandonment Zones," (I'm sure there are others, but these three I have heard from several independent sources) meaning the military and police will simply leave.... then it will be "every man for himself."

Hopefully, this worst-case-scenario does not unfold, but as we all know, the future is not written in stone.

[Morgan]

Something that could indicate an answer to this query is a German film 'Das Experiment' from 2001. A study where a group of men were divided into prisoners and prison guards. Let's just say the people conducting the study lost control of the guards, to put it nicely.

[franzBardon]

Originally Posted by skyking

Regarding Martial Law/Police State scenarios, consider this: There are 300 million people in America. 90% of all our military are overseas, the other 10% are keeping the military installations going on a skeleton crew basis. Backup for the regular forces is the National Guard which is made up of your neighbors and friends. Now, there are 14,000 gang members in south LA alone. In a time of 'unrest' it would take just about ALL of the existing military to contain just this one area. So, will a goon squad come breaking down your door in rural wherever to take your guns and haul you off to a 'camp'? Highly unlikely. Remember during Katrina that 40% of the police force abandoned their post to go home and protect their own family. As I have mentioned in other posts, spending time discussing all of these negative scenarios is keeping us focused on the dark side when we should be concentrating on positive solutions to the problems that currently face us.

you present a logical observation however, you have not taken into consideration that there are ALSO very .. .very large, sophisticated, well trained, and well armed PRIVATIZED FORCES; among the more notible BLACKWATER. the same privatized mercenary group that were/are employed in the middle east AND were present after hurricane katrina hit. what's concerning about blackwater (and other private forces), is that they are NOT obligated to NOR adhere to the US constitutional or military laws (immunization from prosecution...) . it is quite likely blackwater will ALSO be apart of the forces employed IN the US oct.1st or soon there after. of course people need to remain calm vigilant, and well informed. i've provided links below for those unfamiliar with who and what blackwater forces are.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/368.html (quick overview)

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/174.html (very detailed)

[TheGhost]

Originally Posted by steve_johnson#985907-1

this isn't a valid debate if you have found the road here you should know the answer. the police are more and more your enemy daily. the new wave of police are trained in a more foul manner than the SS. they feel entitled and when people feel entitled they run amok. they feel a vast need to stand above you and show they are above you .

Exactly right, in my opinion.
Also, police are selected based on psychological tests as well as trained using psychological methods.
Police will shoot to kill even when they could subdue someone by shooting them in the leg, for instnce, because they are trained to shoot to kill; they are not trained to wound.
The training is such that the police officer with the gun instinctively follows his training rather than thinking about the individual human being whose life he is about to end.

If any of you have friends or family who are police officers ask them what they would do if they were ever ordered against the people and I bet you they skate around the issue rather than give you a direct answer. The truth is, they will follow orders and, of course, they don't want you to know that in advance.

[TranceAm]

Just in a vid with Common Sense about Martial Law.

I am sorry about some shocking words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vulfeAH-MWc

He does make a point there, however, it won't be whole towns that will revolt.
It will only be a couple per 1000 that are radicals..

[arcora]

Originally Posted by TranceAm

Just in a vid with Common Sense about Martial Law.

I am sorry about some shocking words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vulfeAH-MWc

He does make a point there, however, it won't be whole towns that will revolt.
It will only be a couple per 1000 that are radicals..

Interesting opinion he has.

I disagree with him though. He thinks it is impossible for the govt to enforce it and he is wrong. History has proven it is not only possible but easy.

An old Chinese proverb says, "Kill one to scare a thousand."

[bodzoyfa]

and, you will go straight to hell, for doing it

exchanger, you believe in hell?!

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by bodzoyfa

and, you will go straight to hell, for doing it

exchanger, you believe in hell?!

i believe in "greater" potential places,
and, also "lesser" places
and, being in this NOW
(and, now, can be hell, if you do NOT play your cards right)

the sum of your set of choices
i call "The Consquences",
and, it is my belief,
that this, is the guiding force,
that propels you to discovering potentials,
greater/or lesser,
than, the place you are right NOW

NOW, is simply...The Pivot, that you sit in

to make choices / or, to observe

since i have NEVER been to hell
(at least NOT in this lifetime)
i can NOT know that to be a fact
(instead, it would merely be an opinion)

i have taken a journey
into the underworlds,
to "retieve" things...
just, as, i have taken journeys
to other dimensions, and,
other worlds
(however, i can NOT prove this)
to be a fact, it just is, what it is

after_all, hell, can eXist, right here on earth

so, would it NOT, depend largely,
on your definition of a hell,
and, what my definition of hell,
would be, before hell could be properly debated
and, the truth of its existence be revealed

so, in saying that,
it would be impossible to debate someone,
if, both, have NOT clearly tabled,
their own definitions for places/or things
such as hell

brightest blessings
susan
the eXchanger

[tomatochip]

Yes. I agree eXchanger. As the earth's vibration rises, the old paradigm will disintegrate. Cops turning on the people in their communities? Sure. Look at the military. They implement horrors on other men, women and children, simply because they are told to do it. Do you think the police are any different? Look at what they are doing now with their tasers! These people (if they are human at all) are so dumbed down and programmed they no longer have the capacity to think and reason right from wrong. There is only the orders and the agenda that comes from the one paying them. I'd really like to believe in the good will of humanity and all that but just an observation of the daily news tells me otherwise. I like eXchangers comments here in that it is like a cancer that will destroy itself as it fights for it's own survival. They will take themselves out, because they don't go the way of the divine path which is love, allowance and freedom. I believe that most of the 'people' in those postitions are probably clones anyway. What human being who is connected to his/her source carry out such atrocitities on order for a paycheck?

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by tomatochip

Yes. I agree eXchanger. As the earth's vibration rises, the old paradigm will disintegrate. Cops turning on the people in their communities? Sure. Look at the military. They implement horrors on other men, women and children, simply because they are told to do it. Do you think the police are any different? Look at what they are doing now with their tasers! These people (if they are human at all) are so dumbed down and programmed they no longer have the capacity to think and reason right from wrong. There is only the orders and the agenda that comes from the one paying them. I'd really like to believe in the good will of humanity and all that but just an observation of the daily news tells me otherwise. I like eXchangers comments here in that it is like a cancer that will destroy itself as it fights for it's own survival. They will take themselves out, because they don't go the way of the divine path which is love, allowance and freedom. I believe that most of the 'people' in those postitions are probably clones anyway. What human being who is connected to his/her source carry out such atrocitities on order for a paycheck?

tomotoe chip
and, in surprise, arizonia
(i want to go there)

indeed--most men/and, women,
went home to look after their families

it is our children, that we are all creating this world for

and, in the present,
the current state of affairs,
it is NOT a gift we are leaving them !!!

instead, unless many turn towards "the light"

and, start a process to re-connect, to eXchange with others, correctly, instead, it would be a mess,
that will be left to them

we must, collectively work together
to reach, those, the 1,000,000 children
(over the years, who have gone missing)
i believe, they form, what is termed "the lost army"
(this is a big topic) one in which,
is very difficult to table

please everyone when we go to bed tonight
ask what i call, YOUR CAPSTONE/your essence
that biggest part of you,
to call out to these "lost ones"...
so, their controllers, can NO longer control them

essence contact, is very powerful--in fact,
it is the grandest tool, that we have !!!

It is so necessary,
that YOUR ORIGINAL SPARK,
be engaged with THIS CAPSTONE/or ESSENCE,
as, i call it ...we can do so much in our dream-time,
i hope to reveal much information, on this very soon

brightest blessings to all

i am susan ~white lotus star
the eXchanger

[THE eXchanger]

view this video --- while it is still on google

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+coverup&hl=en

[Stinkhorn]

I think they will identify anyone who will give them trouble, they will send in a small group fully armored, equiped with ar-15's. If you give them trouble, they will report back and shell your house from a mile away.

I dont think they will screw around with our rights, they will trample them instantly and make a showcase out of troublemakers in a big way.

[THE eXchanger]

9/14/2008

Originally Posted by eXchanger

i predict, they will all, turn against themselves

dirty work, gets done best, by dirty people

that is a fact !!!

for "us", it will be "all hands off"

remember, this operates in circles,
within circles, within circles

eventually; when the outside edges
realise, what is blowing in "the winds"
they will very likely take two actions

1) turn inward, and, in doing so, will see this is wrong

(doing a job, and, getting paid for it, when you know it is wrong-is karmic)
and, you will go straight to hell, for doing it

it's time that many will start to sing / & blow their whistles

2) their aim, will be, to terminate the inner circle

they are like a bunch of ants,
climbing up a pin,
they have NO TRUST,
because they are NOT trustable,
nor, worthy of trusting,
and, they know that

WOW--that is 3 serious strikes, if this was a baseball game--they would be out !!!

and, there is NO ROOM,
at the top for any of them !!!

and, they are all climbing up different sides
of the same pin, at the same time

my prediction, under the light of this full moon
and, you can MARK my words on this:

i predict, they will all, turn against themselves

dirty work, gets done best, by dirty people

and, the shift, has happened -- the s*** has already hit many fans

what is blowing in the wind -- is going to topple them

i am susan
white lotus star
the eXchanger

The eXchanger, was right !!!

The outer circles, will rebel:

88888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 88888888888

Madagascar: Troops defy orders to put down opposition protests
By Fred Weston
Thursday, 12 March 2009

Anti-government protestors in the capital of Madagascar, Antananarivo. Photo by IRIN. On Sunday the depth of the crisis and the level of social discontent in Madagascar directly affected a group of soldiers of the Army Corps of Personnel and Administrative and Technical Services who had been ordered to move against protestors on the streets. The soldiers refused to obey orders to fire on the people and repress anti-government demonstrators. Following this, they then declared they would not obey government orders either.

As one rebel soldier stated, "We no longer take orders from our hierarchy, we are following our hearts. We were trained to protect property and citizens, not to fire at people. We are with the people."

The soldiers at the Camp Capsat military camp on the outskirts of the capital of Madagascar, Antananarivo, prepared their lines of defence as they were expecting an attack on the part of the presidential guard. The 600-strong troops apparently control large stocks of arms and ammunition.

These dramatic events remind us of Bertolt Brecht's poem, "General, Your Tank Is a Powerful Vehicle", which goes like this:

It smashes down forests and crushes a hundred men.
But it has one defect:
It needs a driver.

General, your bomber is powerful
It flies faster than a storm and carries more than an elephant.
But it has one defect:
It needs a mechanic.

General, man is very useful.
He can fly and he can kill.
But he has one defect:
He can think.

These soldiers in Madagascar are being forced to think by events. As they say, they were trained to defend the people, not to shoot on them. And now they face the wrath of the ruling class and its officer caste.

Talbot Antonin Alexis, Director General of Madagascan National police, has called for unity between the police, the armed forces and the gendarmerie in a desperate attempt to re-establish some order. The Minister of Defence, Mamy Ranaivoniarivo, made it clear on Monday that it would be taking "military measures within the army." However, the Minister did not specify what measures. That explains why the soldiers prepared their lines of defence.

The government has accused the rebel soldiers of organising a mutiny, something the soldiers deny. They stated that they were simply refusing to be used against protesting civilians. Colonel Noel Rakotonandrasana, a spokesperson of the rebel soldiers, reiterating this point, explained that, "We cannot accept the repression of the civilian population."


The Director General of Madagascan National police, has called for unity between the police, the armed forces and the gendarmerie in a desperate attempt to re-establish some order. Photo: Christina Corbett/IRIN. All this comes at a critical moment for Madagascar. These events have taken place in the context of a bitter power struggle between the oppositionist Rajoelina and the President Marc Ravalomanana. At the beginning of this year Andry Rajoelina, the opposition leader, started calling protests against the President, Marc Ravalomanana. The President has not taken too kindly to the protests of the opposition and ordered the security forces to find Rajoelina, who in the meantime has taken the precautionary measure of going into hiding.

What has provoked the recent soldier rebellion has been the increasing use of the army to clamp down on the rising tide of protest sweeping across the country. Since the beginning of this year about 100 people have been killed on the streets by the army. In February a protest rally was marching on the presidential palace but it was met with brutal repression and 28 people were killed.

Madagascar has a population of 20 million people, most of whom live in abysmal poverty. More than half the population survives on less than $1 a day. Like most African countries, Madagascar has been forced by the World Bank and the IMF to apply so-called structural adjustment programmes, involving opening up its markets to the more powerful industrialised countries and privatisation. In the last recession in 2001-02 at the same time as a serious political crisis affected the country, GDP fell by 12%. Last year inflation stood at over 9%, seriously affecting the already impoverished masses.

The 2001 presidential elections were heavily disputed but in April 2002, the High Constitutional Court declared Ravalomanana the winner, who then went on to win a second presidential election in 2006. Since then, however, the world economic crisis has added to the already difficult living conditions of the masses. Ravalomanana's so-called "free market reforms" are now being exposed for what they really are, an attack on ordinary working people on the island.


Opposition leader, Andre Rajoelina, during an anti-government protest in Antananarivo. Photo by IRIN. Rajoelina, "a charismatic young businessman", as he is described in the media, and quite a wealthy man, also owns his own television and radio stations. He was the mayor of the capital until recently, and used this position to attack the government. In doing this he has tapped into a mood of anger brewing among the poor masses. In this context the army ranks have also been affected. Apart from refusing to fire on the people, the soldiers have been complaining about pay and the fact that their superiors have been embezzling funds.

The unfortunate thing about all this is the lack of a genuine mass socialist alternative that could unite the workers, the poor and the rank and file soldiers against the ruling elite. In 1972 the Party for Proletarian Power (MFM) was set up as a left-wing opposition. Unfortunately, as has happened to many former "left" forces in the past, the party abandoned its left-wing credentials to espouse liberalism and changed its name to the Movement for the Progress of Madagascar, in the meantime losing all its parliamentary representatives.

In the political vacuum that exists in the country we have unfortunately a struggle between two businessmen. But the movement of the masses and the revolt within the ranks of the army shows quite clearly that the potential is there for something much bigger.

After the mutiny of the Border Guards in Bangladesh, this revolt of soldiers in Madagascar highlights the point that Marxists have always made: in acute social, economic and political crises, when the masses start to move, the soldiers, the "workers in uniform", sons of workers and peasants, can turn against their officers, refuse to be used against the masses, and can therefore be won over to revolution. The famous "armed bodies of men" cannot always be relied on by the ruling classes. What we have seen in Bangladesh and Madagascar are indications of how deep the crisis is becoming. It bodes well for the workers of the world, but it requires a conscious, revolutionary leadership for it to be transformed into a force for revolutionary change.

Postscript: Since this article was written a section of the army has taken over army Headquarters and forced the defence minister, Mamy Ranaivoniarivo to resign!




WAR IS A RACKET, Gen. Smedley Butler, USMC

Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933 by General Smedley Butler, USMC
War is just a racket. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.