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#1 |
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There is a path from each heart to the Heart of hearts
Each heart dabbles along this path in its own peculiar way Some go with the flow some in a flock some alone Some nearing the end some just started some stopped Some makes haste some paused some turned Eventually all hearts will get there in its own good time For so is the purpose of the Heart to attract all the little hearts Even the hardest of hearts will have to yield and melt Only the Heart of hearts knows the little hearts its state and whereabouts Some hearts love some schemes some so hard some fickle some good some bad All saints have a past and all sinners have a future Time is a walk on the way to God |
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#2 |
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Milk and Honey, for heavens sake, PLEASE get off this thread and start your own.
This thread is about what I posted in the OP, not about you. Or Jesus. Or Krishnamurti even. Or your thoughts on either of them. It would be okay for a few little comments but not this essay writing that you seem fond of. And the last thing I want on here is you trying to dismember a load of Tony Parson's writings, not that I've read any of them [or need to]. Perhaps you can do that on the thread you start about it. Last edited by dayzero; 01-10-2009 at 09:03 AM. |
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#3 | |
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There is much truth and beauty in this, RedeZra! I like your response, Milk and Honey! After all I invited it. I could respond to your response, ![]() but I'd settle for this at this point. ![]() ![]() After all, we have probably done both many times before! Dayzero, thank you for the OP, It has lead us to a great thread. Let us respect each other to the point of allowing everyone the space he/she needs. Many are reading this, and I am sure the Universe is Unfolding as it Should (Desiderata) and that each of us has a part to play. By the way, I have been told there are NO saints. ![]() That might be the reason for the little inner smile on Buddhas lips: What a lark, they just can't seem to enjoy the ride and choose the Midway Path where the dualities are made whole! No, disrespect intended, Milk and Honey. This is short and sweet, so the details we have to fill in later. Love ya'all! ![]() |
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#4 |
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Josephine, yes, I agree. You're right. And thanks.
And the law of Allowance is applicable here, and of course I wouldn't want to censor or stop anyone's right to write. But just occasionally, I feel the need to speak, uh, harshly. Moreover, i feel that in doing this, I probably represent an un-represented quotient of our audience here. And that's a very handy justification for me isn't it!..... one might say! I'll leave my moody post up so as not to run away from it. Blessings. Just remember - no-one is typing this, for no-one. Bliss. Carry on everyone, as you were. Last edited by dayzero; 01-10-2009 at 12:54 PM. |
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#5 |
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#6 |
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Thankyou for your reasonable words Josefine and for your change of mind dayzero.
I suppose there is nothing sweeter to the human ear than the sounds of agreement. Sorry if it seems troubling or intrusive but like Guatama, i'm also trying to define the middle way - which is the high vibration at the center of Being - and acknowledge also the blocks or the low vibrations of anti-Being. The reason i find this kind of discourse attractive is because most of us read infornation from various metaphysical teachers and rarely ever stand them side by side to see how they compare and contrast. I find there are so many inconsistencies between them that they need to be talked about. Some are resolved when language is made clearer and some are not because they're simply not true. Comparisons are valuable right 'here' and 'now' (whenever and wherever assertions of truth are made) because alternatively comparisons can only be made by perusing divergent web sources at different times. Consequently, our understanding of the differences are duller than they might otherwise be. This archipelago of sources allows some teachers to take truth into a tangent that can only stand on the foundation of it's own internal 'logic'. But when a light is shone apon it from outside the box it's limitations become clear. If it's limitations are constistent and carefully pre-concieved then motive may even be deduced. In the interest of spiritual enquiry i hope we can continue the way we are. Love and thanks to all for the opportunity to talk. Last edited by milk and honey; 01-10-2009 at 03:33 PM. |
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#7 | |
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It can't always be rosy huh? ![]() |
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#8 |
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I too can understand the frustration expressed by Dayzero.....it's not nice to "hijack" someone's post.
(Moderator hat is off for this post) |
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#9 |
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How do you conclude i hijacked the thread? This is a place to discuss ideas. If i agreed with everyone i am quite sure you wouldn't be saying this. Be honest, your sacred cows are being threatened and you don't like it.
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#10 | |
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Again, if i agreed with you and the OP you'd have no doubt remained silent. There's nothing surer. Cheer up sister. |
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#11 |
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There surely is self-righteousness here but you're pitting the same attitude against it.
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#12 |
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Maybe Czymra, but now i'd like to stick with the discussion of the philosophical comments if that's ok. Before being criticised I respectfully and politely dissagreed with some of the comments made and i hope Josefine is not dissuaded from replying to me. I very much appreciate her views. She didn't appear offended by me and hopefully won't join some who clearly would like me to remain silent regarding certain ideas and teachers.
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#13 |
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Its ok to disagree on spiritual matters - Topic is vast and elusive
So many pieces to this jigsaw puzzle and who have the full picture...? What rings like truth in one ear sounds like trash in another Yesterdays truth todays amuse might come true again tomorrow Changin with the season like fashion on a catwalk Still we sense what is right and wrong what is good and bad Conscience is the compass and mind is the map So many maps so many consepts of truth Still if still the Voice within will guide the Beauty shine and the Heart embrace |
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#14 |
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"your sacred cows are being threatened and you don't like it. "
Au contraire, it is your 'beliefs' that are threatened [hence your mammoth, and no doubt valid in their own way, discourses], ..... 'beliefs' are a product of 'thought' and 'thought' is always 'dead' as it is not 'free from the known' and as thought is not 'free from the known' it is always in the past. I have no 'beliefs' as such, so it would be hard for anyone to challenge them. Again, I know you have an audience here, but this could all be done much better on a thread dedicated to the topics you wish to discuss, as so far you do not appear to have listened to good ol Tony Parsons. |
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#15 | |||
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You've concluded that i write here because i am 'threatened'. I'm not the one asking and wishing for you to go somewhere else. You and some others are threatened and are trying to censor me. On page one of this thread Anchor scolded me for being too brief and you are doing the same for being too long winded. ![]() Quote:
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I have listened to Tony and read some of his website. You've opened a thread praising him and Jiddhu 'K' and that's ok. No need for me to open another 'TP' thread unless you don't want to talk about his perspective. We are on a discussion board and you'd be aware that in a place like this no-one has a monopoly franchise on the truth. Not you, me, Jiddhu K or TP. We exchange views and then we leave it to each other as to what reflects truth. Last edited by milk and honey; 01-11-2009 at 06:06 AM. |
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#16 |
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So funny that this thread offers utter proof for Parson's posit!
I love it. We think we know, but we don't. All is nothing but all. Classic. :-) |
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#17 |
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Am laughing hard conjuredUp!
Nice post. |
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#18 | |
Avalon Senior Member
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A lot has been given by those who do know, yet have not kept silent. These have averred that the carnal mind knows nothing. Nothing spiritual that is. Yet it's construct has been described for those who wish to prove it's " nothingness" themselves. They also teach that the intelligent higher- Mind within knows all. And the spiritual circuitry over which IT flows (the chakras and finer bodies) has likewise been described for those who wish to prove it by self discovery. I realise they have not given all this so that we can codify a set of dogmatic beliefs about it but so that we can prove it for ourselves by inner realisation. While very little of that spiritual knowledge (of Self) can be described in words, words still have their place and can be best appreciated when the spirit opens their meaning. It has been said that an adept's words cannot be fully understood by the student unless the student is given to understand by the interior spirit or by the adept. It is a fact that the master can transfer spiritual perception to a disciple who has otherwise lost the conscious awareness of his/her own spirit. It is a kind of spiritual resuscitation of the 'dead'. Although this happens it would be considered the height of ignorance, blasphemy even, by some who 'believe' that words and masters are useless to the inner realisation of truth. |
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#19 |
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Nope, you're not really getting it.
"The mind is a container for spirit" Mind Hasn't a Clue. "It has been said that an adept's words cannot be fully understood by the student" this is revealing. no adepts or students needed. I leave any further comments to Tony Parsons, and just to say I'm very glad to have brought this to anyone that enjoyed it. |
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#20 |
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Oh and also, fyi, he does quite a few talks in London, Am*Dam, Berlin;
[no, i'm not his agent. or his student! lol] http://www.theopensecret.com/talks.htm London - Could be fun? - I may well go to the one on Feb 7th......... __________________________________________________ _ OPEN DISCUSSIONS at The Friends Meeting House, 120 Heath Street, Hampstead, LONDON, NW3 Saturday 7 February 2009 Saturday 7 March 2009 Saturday 4 April 2009 from 2pm to 5pm The cost is £10.00. Please pay at the door Please arrive promptly for 2pm start |
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#21 | ||
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Paul wrote: "Have that Mind in you which was in Christ Jesus". The Christ Mind / Buddhic Mind is the genie in the lamp that imparts divine ideas to the soul in matter. Something is required of you to gain access to it's secrets. You have to rub it. Meditation, prayer and the re-orientation of your life to service will help to awaken it. It will not reveal to the disoriented who wiould willfully misqualify it's energy in the old mental / emotional patterns of mindlessness. It seeks to re-orient the soul and draw it back into alignment with it's own vibration and Will. It seeks to change "dukkha" to end suffering. Quote:
"He who hath ears let him hear" ... ... It refers to an inner faculty of spiritual discernment which most people have lost because there is no conscious awareness of spirit. That is why i referred to the "little help" from an adept. Jesus and other adepts are 'awake' so they have spiritual power to transfer their understanding to the listener or reader who may otherwise have no conscious spiritual connection of their own. But i realise all of this is considered an ignorant personal belief of mine by those who reject out of hand the utility of master teachers and the works written or inspired by them and who dismiss even the idea that there is anything of spiritual value to learn. The adepts have given or written quite a few works over the centuries. Anyone who reads them might fairly be described as a student of life's verities and for the duration of studying the adept's work, a "student of the adept". You choose to believe Jiddhu 'K' and TP on that and that's ok but i don't. Of course i don't say the adepts are the only teacher. If it is consciously re-awakened the higher- Self illuminates the soul's pathway with divine direction. But even that has been summarily dismissed by the contrary assertion that there is no student, no teacher, no path, no goal. Truths can easily be transformed into the ignorant speculations of fools and so they have in the minefield of neo spirituality and metaphysics. |
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#22 | |
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This is such a brilliant recommendation for a totally wordless path. It is the one that can be wholly authentic. ![]() Last edited by Josefine; 01-11-2009 at 12:36 PM. |
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#23 | |
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#24 | |
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To state that some of Krishnamurti and Parsons statements do not reflect reality, but are personal beliefs is illogical: If some thought represent their reality and their belief, it is a reality for them. Faith, on the other hand, is the deep trusting that is beyond beliefs and beyond words. If their beliefs lead to Faith, that is all they need for the journey. There is NO police authority that demand to know: How did you arrive to a state of Faith? For your information: My basis has matured over a lifetime. I have not left one stone unturned in order to get to what constitutes truth for me. The flaky corners of New Age and the Internet have not contributed to my integration. I have some deep direct sources and some of it is not yet in written form. Buddhism is at least as fractured as Christianity, so you most likely have plenty of these kinds of discussions among fellow Buddhists. You have more in common with certain narrow Christian sects than you might know, who think that God and En-Lightenment is only accessible if you follow OUR recipe. That is what happens when teachings freeze into dogma. This is in fact, the dividing line between Spiirituality and Religion. Remember our first disussion on that theme? The term Anti-being is a sheer construct. In the All-Oneness there is only Being in all its myriad forms. There is NOTHING that is not of God! How could it be? The ONE comprises the Light and the Void and EVERYTHING in-Between. You may bless it or you may curse it, those are your choices. Guatama was all about walking the path, beyond defining it. The defining started when he had left and the followers started squabbling. This is the typical problem with all religion, after the inspirator leaves, it decays into staleness. At some point you just have to let go and allow that maybe your little corner of heaven is not all of Heaven. Last edited by Josefine; 01-11-2009 at 07:49 AM. |
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#25 | |||||
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To assert that everyone's beliefs are 'reality' for them' overlooks the point that the sum of everyone's beliefs may not constitute a thimble full of reality if in fact those beliefs are based on illusion. Of course this question is more impersonal now considering i'm speaking of 'everyone' and some beliefs actually are proven to be based on reality. So i guess in that case they're not merely 'beliefs' anymore but 'knowledge'. Bottom line, there is a difference between reality and illusion, dark and light, true and false, harmony and discord, higher- Mind and dualistc mind and a high vibration and low, so why not talk about it as we see it and be straightforward and honest about what we see? It can't do any harm to dissagree if that's all that comes of it. If it is being asserted that i am parroting ignorant old beliefs, which it is, then what is wrong with my suggesting to people who hold that view to reconsider their own beliefs? They obviously believe that if one simply denies the definitions of variation and the value of virtually every truth concept then they're free of beliefs. Isn't that a belief in itself? It is. Does it reflect reality? That's the question and if anyone considers it resolved in certain respects then why not say so. I have done so and so have others. No problem here. There is no police authority no. If people arrive at faith - which is conscious knowledge of the spiritual Self - then who can condemn the route taken? I agree. Unfortunately though, people more often have 'beliefs' in illusion rather than 'faith' in reality. The world would be a far different place if it were otherwise. So why not provide a catalyst once in a while? It may put a few noses out of joint but it adds to the conversation and the available choiices. No harm intended. I've noticed that you're not shy of dissagreement when you feel the need and i'm fine with it. I hope you're ok with this one. Quote:
I have seen how very imperfect i am in the dark depths and i have the realisation that this is a universal problem with almost all my fellows here on earth. Every anxiety, every fear, every mild dislike even, has it's dark root in the labrynthian depths of the subconscious memory and i know it has to be identified - in the presence and through the eye of spirit - so that it can be removed /transmuted by the great transformer, the Christ Mind. What fiery love i never knew. In the words of the immortal Christ: "Even now the axe (of inner spirit) is laid at the (subconscious) root of the tree (of relative good and evil in human consciousness)." Read the history books... a thin slice of our experience is recorded there as well as in our own subconscious minds. Every shameful act along with the energy spent to do it is impressed there. All the shames and glories side by side, the tares with the wheat. I 'see' it there as an imprint within me, disturbing my being at deep levels until the fire of love descends and devours another part of me each time. This is the transmutation of self i talk about. I've talked in concepts rather than experience usually because i hope it will be recognisable in that way. If not, it's still there as a kind of testament not just to my personal experience but to the divine 'anatomy' and process of 'shiva' destroying / transforming the self created vibration of the 'lower worlds'... in my own subconscious. That's what it's about... Self- transformation through the love of the Christ Presence and through that clarity the transformation of this world. I don't have to imagine what a torrent of fiery love flows through the transmuted being of the adepts i speak lovingly of because by the grace of the All God I know them in that way. I look forward to the total liberty of being which they enjoy. I will say with them and with perfect Self knowledge: Behold, I AM everywhere in the consciousness of God ! Quote:
I certainly do not believe that God and en-lightenment are accessable by following any narrow misinterpretation of any religion or spiritual teaching. It is an interior anatomy and experience which is described by all religions (if they're rightly understood) and by all true teachings of a spiritual origin. Dogma cannot replace the process of self-realisation, no and i'm not looking to try. I'm sorry i don't remember our first discussion on the theme of religion / spirituality. Can you remind me about it? Quote:
You're quite right, 'anti-being' is a sheer construct based on the illusion of separation. But that illusion is constructed from misqualified spiritual energy which is now trapped in the subconscious. It is a dark heavy weight of fear and hatred and anxiety and all the disturbing permutations of darkness created through experience. Because that part of our being vibrates so low it gives the impression of separation. But impressions can be transmuted by spirit and the energies locked in these lower forms of being (which i call 'anti-being' for the purpose of defining it in a discussion) can be liberated permanently. Quote:
I don't claim any little corner of heaven, but i know what you mean. Others will have their own view and i should allow that. I do allow. I have my say and after a conversation i let go. But i have proven certain of the realities i talk about. I see them summarily dismissed by people who present to humanity as teachers and leaders in the vanguard of spirituality and metaphysics. They have managed to construct a doctrine of "nothingness" which effectively silences anyone who has anything to say beyond "nothing". The mere speaking of my views or experiences in my own terms is proof positive of my 'delusion'. In effect the diagnosis is no different in that regard to modern psychiatry and in the wrong hands can only be further abused. People, do you know where this extreme doctrine might lead in a society where only a small group has the right to a valid opinion and stands in the open with all decision making powers in it's control? It would likely be no different to the absolute power and supremacy of the catholic church during the ~ 1500 years it ruled in the open. Last edited by milk and honey; 01-11-2009 at 08:51 PM. |
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for no-one, open secret, parsons |
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