Symbolism/Language/Focus

[Czymra]

Good (fill in current phase of day) Avalonians,

Once more and hopefully ever so humbly I have a question to pin down. This time it will be quite a hulk I'm afraid but I'm well aware of all the mental agility around here so I'm more than curious about its outcome. Truly enough, many times and also with this, I have found the answer to be within the question if I just know how to ask correctly. This in itself is a very revealing process but really I get out of the house too little.

Anyway, I'm on the track and I hope to see the giants of syntax and images in a cosmic stand-off about this. Maybe I'll even invite you personally.

Let's get to it:
I would like to explore the implications of language, specifically symbolism. I'm well aware that this has been done before but I haven't found anything that quite throws this focus on it and I sure have pondered on it a lot myself in this respect.

The questions are:
"Where do symbols draw their power from?" and "Is there an original meaning that somehow is profoundly stronger than all the other 'interpretations'?" and lastly "Why use symbols/language?"

This leaves a lot of things to consider so let me try to splice this up:

a. We all have been exposed to symbols through media.
A great example is this YouTube channel http://uk.youtube.com/user/soundlessdawn in which you can watch videos that explore synchromysticism, a mapping of popular media's symbols and themes, inter-connectedly representing the entirety of human consciousness.
I suppose you can liken this to the Halt Past Human only focussing on entertainment media.


b. What level of symbolism can be accounted for? There are as far as I can see many levels:
Geometric shapes (triangle), abstracted shapes from cosmology or the like (spiral centre of the universe), representational graphics (a chair), functional graphics (a map), then you can even take concepts as symbols (Ying and Yang) or see language as symbols as well.

c. Associations with all these often cover over the original meaning, if there ever was such a thing.
Is this the basis of interpretation or does interpretation draw it's associations already from the one consciousness? If so, is all manipulation that of the one consciousness rather then that of pieces of the whole?

d. Is there something like an unawareness of true meaning that can be/is being used to channel this energy? This can surely be only possible for the pure symbols if so or is it actually a matter of association? (I have the gut feeling that the associations cover OVER the actual core of the symbol. Example: The Pentagram is more quickly associated as a symbol of satanism (upside down) or Wicca/Paganism; but those are polarities of the same thing. What does the Pentagram really stand for?)


If we take on board the notions of language and the problem of the signifier and the signified we have a few other issues:

1. Telepathy, I am not capable of it but I have on several occasions been able to form a word of an action or concept in my head without having any of the words of the languages known to me form in my head. It wasn't like I was missing the word as it happens so many times, it was actually THERE I just didn't associate it with a phonetic sound. This convinces me that there is something like a universal 'language' or rather an essence of that which is, an equivalent to the outside representation of reality, like a mirror, without pictures.

2. The dependency on causality. Humans need to form a story in order to create causality. This is usually allegorical and often refers back to human analogies like a 'birth' of a new age. Language here, I believe may be too dependant on other concepts that might be too removed from life itself.

3. The idea of focusing. I'm not sure if focusing is actually the right term. It depends maybe on the model one uses. If the whole world is around you in semi-transparent layers then focusing on the right depth, visually speaking, will allow you to view just that one item in that one direction at that one depth.
I personally have a hard time imagining that everything could possibly be in a field of vision. So I would like to have a term that describes 'to bring to someone's attention', literally to draw an entity (I willingly ignore subject and object here, by entity I don't mean a spirit or so) into one's field of perception. This is probably similar to remote viewing that once there is a 'hook' one can easily attune to the manifestation of that entity again.
Be that as it may, this is the concept of a symbol, the draw a certain aspect of life into focus no matter if it is a concept, a word, or a picture. It's so to say a 'channeling tool' through which a signifiers is hooked and invoked in one's consciousness.

4. Representation. What is representation, and then what is real? Is everything a symbol or does only it's observation of one make it so? Is a single grain of sand a symbol? Is matter ever not a representation? (Don't call the stars, stars for you reduce them to words.)



My observation so far is that a symbol conjures up a specific 'space' or dynamic of existence and is in all likelihood a singularity in itself that opens up it's own polarity as displayed in the pentagram example.

Lastly, I think that it is interesting to observe that all that is mentioned here is outside of all self-arranging arts as music, dance and emotion, which due to their tension of sitting between the past and the future (the now) and their purity, establish a new context (or a larger context) as every new motion, tone or e-motion emerges into the now.

Meaning however, as it is attached to symbols and can only be communicated if we all agree that 'A rose is a rose is a rose.', is fixed. This dependency on concepts, that are on themselves not 'pure matter' or original, keeps our reference system from the beauty of self-arrangement, and is thus by it's very nature a system that holds us back from exploring the new, as the old system can only be a crutch to a new idea, for which self-evidently, there isn't a word/signifier yet.

0_o okay it's 2 a.m. and I'm ready to hit the hay. I'd appreciate any insights especially if they relate to the manipulation of (mass)consciousness in regard to hidden meanings/implications.

Godspeed,
Czymra

[777 The Great Work]

Originally Posted by Czymra

Good (fill in current phase of day) Avalonians,

Once more and hopefully ever so humbly I have a question to pin down. This time it will be quite a hulk I'm afraid but I'm well aware of all the mental agility around here so I'm more than curious about its outcome. Truly enough, many times and also with this, I have found the answer to be within the question if I just know how to ask correctly. This in itself is a very revealing process but really I get out of the house too little.

Anyway, I'm on the track and I hope to see the giants of syntax and images in a cosmic stand-off about this. Maybe I'll even invite you personally.

Let's get to it:
I would like to explore the implications of language, specifically symbolism. I'm well aware that this has been done before but I haven't found anything that quite throws this focus on it and I sure have pondered on it a lot myself in this respect.

The questions are:
"Where do symbols draw their power from?" and "Is there an original meaning that somehow is profoundly stronger than all the other 'interpretations'?" and lastly "Why use symbols/language?"

This leaves a lot of things to consider so let me try to splice this up:

a. We all have been exposed to symbols through media.
A great example is this YouTube channel http://uk.youtube.com/user/soundlessdawn in which you can watch videos that explore synchromysticism, a mapping of popular media's symbols and themes, inter-connectedly representing the entirety of human consciousness.
I suppose you can liken this to the Halt Past Human only focussing on entertainment media.


b. What level of symbolism can be accounted for? There are as far as I can see many levels:
Geometric shapes (triangle), abstracted shapes from cosmology or the like (spiral centre of the universe), representational graphics (a chair), functional graphics (a map), then you can even take concepts as symbols (Ying and Yang) or see language as symbols as well.

c. Associations with all these often cover over the original meaning, if there ever was such a thing.
Is this the basis of interpretation or does interpretation draw it's associations already from the one consciousness? If so, is all manipulation that of the one consciousness rather then that of pieces of the whole?

d. Is there something like an unawareness of true meaning that can be/is being used to channel this energy? This can surely be only possible for the pure symbols if so or is it actually a matter of association? (I have the gut feeling that the associations cover OVER the actual core of the symbol. Example: The Pentagram is more quickly associated as a symbol of satanism (upside down) or Wicca/Paganism; but those are polarities of the same thing. What does the Pentagram really stand for?)


If we take on board the notions of language and the problem of the signifier and the signified we have a few other issues:

1. Telepathy, I am not capable of it but I have on several occasions been able to form a word of an action or concept in my head without having any of the words of the languages known to me form in my head. It wasn't like I was missing the word as it happens so many times, it was actually THERE I just didn't associate it with a phonetic sound. This convinces me that there is something like a universal 'language' or rather an essence of that which is, an equivalent to the outside representation of reality, like a mirror, without pictures.

2. The dependency on causality. Humans need to form a story in order to create causality. This is usually allegorical and often refers back to human analogies like a 'birth' of a new age. Language here, I believe may be too dependant on other concepts that might be too removed from life itself.

3. The idea of focusing. I'm not sure if focusing is actually the right term. It depends maybe on the model one uses. If the whole world is around you in semi-transparent layers then focusing on the right depth, visually speaking, will allow you to view just that one item in that one direction at that one depth.
I personally have a hard time imagining that everything could possibly be in a field of vision. So I would like to have a term that describes 'to bring to someone's attention', literally to draw an entity (I willingly ignore subject and object here, by entity I don't mean a spirit or so) into one's field of perception. This is probably similar to remote viewing that once there is a 'hook' one can easily attune to the manifestation of that entity again.
Be that as it may, this is the concept of a symbol, the draw a certain aspect of life into focus no matter if it is a concept, a word, or a picture. It's so to say a 'channeling tool' through which a signifiers is hooked and invoked in one's consciousness.

4. Representation. What is representation, and then what is real? Is everything a symbol or does only it's observation of one make it so? Is a single grain of sand a symbol? Is matter ever not a representation? (Don't call the stars, stars for you reduce them to words.)



My observation so far is that a symbol conjures up a specific 'space' or dynamic of existence and is in all likelihood a singularity in itself that opens up it's own polarity as displayed in the pentagram example.

Lastly, I think that it is interesting to observe that all that is mentioned here is outside of all self-arranging arts as music, dance and emotion, which due to their tension of sitting between the past and the future (the now) and their purity, establish a new context (or a larger context) as every new motion, tone or e-motion emerges into the now.

Meaning however, as it is attached to symbols and can only be communicated if we all agree that 'A rose is a rose is a rose.', is fixed. This dependency on concepts, that are on themselves not 'pure matter' or original, keeps our reference system from the beauty of self-arrangement, and is thus by it's very nature a system that holds us back from exploring the new, as the old system can only be a crutch to a new idea, for which self-evidently, there isn't a word/signifier yet.

0_o okay it's 2 a.m. and I'm ready to hit the hay. I'd appreciate any insights especially if they relate to the manipulation of (mass)consciousness in regard to hidden meanings/implications.

Godspeed,
Czymra

The power of symbolism is concealed as usual in the womb of the feminine,the Moon, and to be in flow with the moon and its symbolic power,is to be in the flow of life.We are on a solar calendar to supress and manipulate the feminine energy.

All repetition is a manifestation of the principle of memory, symbolized by the moon. When one uses repetition in prayer, or incantations, or advertising, one is calling upon the power of the moon and memory to accomplish something in the world “out there”. Symbolism is a way of tuning into a feeling, of grabbing onto a certain intention. Memory is at the basis of all this – i.e., it provides us with a way of making something which happened once, happen again. So if i want to repeat an event,i would symbolise the event through repetition with the waxing and waning of the moon. Remember wax on wax off.[



How is the east won , by collapsing the two towers.Symbolism is more powerful than reality. It is more powerful because it is closer to the truth, and the truth is that what we call “reality” is only a symbol.As above so below.


The power of symbolism doesn’t depend upon the particular symbolism being used, for the symbol is useless without the observer to activate it. So it is the intent behind the symbol that makes it powerful. Consider the power of the moon. To time the affairs of your life according to the moon is to hook yourself into the lunar rhythm. Whether you plant on the waxing or waning moon;

All life on earth is attuned to the lunar rhythm, and the extent to which people are or aren’t in tune with this rhythm is the extent to which they are or aren’t in tune with the world around them. For example, the easiest way to head off the impending enviromental , economical spiritual and social crisis would be to get everyone in the world to switch back from a solar to a lunar calendar.

The moon doesn’t have one single, solitary thing to do with it whatsoever. There are no “rays” or discernible causality involved. The physical moon is just a symbol for this rhythm, just as the sun is a symbol for spirit. But both of these symbols are primordial – i.e. they meant what they mean long before we were humans on the earth.

The moon symbolizes one aspect of the Spirit, namely memory – repetition. Repetition, or rhythm, is eternal. It’s just one aspect of the Spirit. One can consider that the Spirit is made of light photons, in which case one is considering its solar aspect; or one can consider that it is made up of vibrations or sounds, and that is its rhythmic or lunar aspect. The lunar aspect is the joyous aspect – indeed, joy is rhythm, and rhythm is joy. This is how we are manipulated, you don't need pride to have joy but how many people know that if the possesions are their pride and joy. There are certain activities which are intrinsically lunar: travel, sickness, prayer, lunacy – anything which means a vacation from, or a pause in, the work day (routine) world is intrinsically a lunar activity.


So all we see is symbolic of the unseen.This is how this demension is manipulated through the use of symbols and repetition of symbols.This is how it works,attack pearl harbor,make a movie called pearl harbor , red dawn, and then make a tv show and video game called without warning. Then finally when the the US is attacked, it is already in memory bans which some what softens the blow.

One of the major reasons we are manipulated because we watch the clock instead of the 28 day gestation of the moon . The powers that be are on sacred feminine time of ebb and flow.Tomorrow is the inaguration which is Tuesday the day of man, governed by mars ie male agression and war. It is probaly a full moon which means all emotions will be high and propaganda will be soaked into the subconciousness of the masses.

Originally Posted by 777 The Great Work

It is probably a full moon which means all emotions will be high and propaganda will be soaked into the subconciousness of the masses.

Hi 777 - The moon's not full. It's a waning crescent > new.

2009 Phases of the Moon
Universal Time
NEW MOON .....FIRST QUARTER...... FULL MOON........LAST QUARTER
................... ..JAN. 4 11 56 ...... JAN. 11 3 27 .....JAN. 18 2 46
JAN. 26 7 55....FEB. 2 23 13 ....... FEB. 9 14 49......FEB. 16 21 37
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.php



LOVE & DARK NIGHTS (LOTS OF STARS)

[777 The Great Work]

Originally Posted by no caste

Hi 777 - The moon's not full. It's a waning crescent > new.

2009 Phases of the Moon
Universal Time
NEW MOON .....FIRST QUARTER...... FULL MOON........LAST QUARTER
................... ..JAN. 4 11 56 ...... JAN. 11 3 27 .....JAN. 18 2 46
JAN. 26 7 55....FEB. 2 23 13 ....... FEB. 9 14 49......FEB. 16 21 37
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.php



LOVE & DARK NIGHTS (LOTS OF STARS)

I had no idea,i 've just noticed that major decisions and events take place on days of the full and new moon . Thanks No caste, i meant to say new and full.14 on and 14 off

[Humble Janitor]

Had a dream recently where the numbers 772 and 13 were prominent.

It was odd and actually 3 dreams in 1.

[Dakini]

My sense, and also from my reading and direct experience, is that symbols arise from the Collective. Carl Jung devoted much of professional life to their interpretation, re: Man and His Symbols is good place to start. He advocated that no symbol is connected to a dogmatic interpretation.

Symbols surpass any secular language and are universal - therefor any being from any system or time/place can experience them and get similar meaning. The mystics write greatly on having visions of symbols. I myself have received hundreds over the years - quite profound ones. When the symbol or even ancient word is given in a vision or dream, it can be absolutely transformational - simply ask what it means. Begin there. If you receive an internal answer - wonderful. If not, after a few days, go the internet - you will be blown away by what you can often find.

The psyche gives us symbols via dreams. I had a powerful dream last year ...
I am secretly holding a golden brown elixir called "Rasa." I haven't heard of this word before. Lucidly, I wonder what this is...I am in a group of women that I think I have to give some to...share it with everyone here...but some of the women become mean and petty...I realize I cannot give them the Rasa...it's too precious...I sense they are not worthy yet, besides, I don't really know yet the effects of it...and soon I know that it is me alone who needs to take it. I turn the Rasa over in my hand, it is sticky and looks sweet. I raise it to my lips...and the dream ends.

I do 'my asking,' I believe I understand the power of it, but I want to know more and go to the internet. What I find on Rasa is incredible and very affirming of what I am experiencing at the time. (If anyone has any info on Rasa, I'd love to hear it, btw.) This is just one example of the universal way that Spirit/The Soul Self speaks.

Clients often ask me where they can begin their spiritual journey. I tell them to begin to record dreams in the present tense. Be ready! Once you actively engage the psyche, something very exciting starts. The part of you that has so longed to connect to your conscious self begins to speak - in symbols.

Dakini

[Dakini]

Humble Janitor,
One of the interpretations of 13...
From the Major Arcana of the Tarot - 13 is the Death card - a very auspicious one for death of the old and is a herald of of "rebirth, transformation, and even transfiguration. You can choose to shed your past and eliminate your previous existence...you will then be in a position to assume the position of refinement, prepared for the spiritual Sun and celestial waters to nurture you into replete, newborn splendor." Marcia Macino

Jeez, I'm all excited for you...!

772 - what is your date of birth?

Dakini

[Dakini]

Czymra,
In response to your second question, "Why use symbols?"

One reason is that because symbols are universal and resonate directly with the Collective and the Soul Self, it is one way to get the message delivered undiluted. It's a communication that transpires.

It's sort of akin to the universal language of medical terminology, which is standardized across all countries and software and hardware programming and protocols and yes, using symbols. Does anyone realize what was accomplished when creating a brand new universal language with computer systems? Awesome. Which is one reason why high level internet insiders are saying that the internet will never go down...they will make sure of it.

[Czymra]

Thanks for all your replies first of all. I'm glad to see such interest by itself.
However, I've not yet seen what I was looking for. The revelations about the moon are precious to me, the dream terminology I'm catching on to, but I haven't seen any hard fact.
Okay, maybe there aren't any hard facts on this topic but at least some 'hard argumentation'. I hear it claimed again that symbols are a 'universal language' but if they aren't pure as such how can they be? Aren't there misinterpretations? I could understand if any interpretation is right the the openness of the symbols IS the very facet that lends the visual realm back its self-arrangement.
However, the concept breaks down for me when looking at geometric symbols. I mean, the triangle is so pure, if you leave away all the association, it just is in all it's simplicity and complexity. The same goes for a circle. Is it a ring, a ball, a cylinder, an area, is there depth? It doesn't matter for it's all the same! That doesn't work with a symbolistic approach for 'lightning' though.

[EarthBowl]

my intuitive thought only-

We are one. On earth we bought into the illusion of separation.
We may or may not consciously be aware of our collective unconsciousness / genetic mind system - which is only a thin wispy image construct to remind us of our Oneness.

We are creators- it is what we do. Symbols- including all images made by us, are attempts at communication in this collective unconscious or genetic mind system. Symbols -fuzzy images that attempt to trigger a recollection of a truth in the Oneness.
Reminders to remember, that can gather or divide.

I am an artist who uses symbols and words. I feel the power in the symbols but know the real power is the connection established between those who resonate with the focused image- symbol-object. In the same way writers / poets - use symbol language to show you something they see- feel- understand. This condensed focus may open up a similar place in you. So realized consciously or not - that is a connection.
I think connection could be the purpose.

[Czymra]

That is how I feel as well but that doesn't account for the consistent use of the pyramid in i.e. Masonic imaging. If I put a pyramid, have no idea what it means, maybe I want it to be a huge three dimensional arrowhead, pointing at something else, does it still have those connotations? Will unknowing people feel that connotation sub-consciously even without ever having learned about the Masonic meaning?
For what you say sounds as if the symbol is merely a channel, a graphical representation of an image, that due to its geometry can be interpreted, which and whatever way the interpretation happens then, is just a question of conditioning of the observer or the context within the piece (if you ignore the conscious mind at least).

[EarthBowl]

Originally Posted by Czymra

... is just a question of conditioning of the observer or the context within the piece (if you ignore the conscious mind at least).

Maybe- the symbol is the same but people have laid 'veils' over it. Here's how i think about it- When painting there is a way to lay thin layers color over and over the same area. It is important to let dry between colors or it all becomes muddy. The layers add a dimension- depth happens and the area is or may be seen differently because the viewer is focusing on the surface or even a few layers deep. But there is still the opportunity to focus and see the base area.

I'm just thinking here... guessing ... making a story.
Could these symbols ex triangle- be codes from our deepest heart, recognized by all in the Genetic Mind System consciously or unconsciously but known, as Carl Jung says the Archetypes are known. They are coded with information... but it may be the FOCUS and INTENTION that is the magic that changes how something is seen. If true - it can be changed again. yahoo!

An example of obscuring or changing meaning:
The swastika was an ancient symbol of life (in many cultures) long before being used by the Nazi. In a short time- a very few years- the same symbol was transformed and is now seem by many as a symbol of death.

[Czymra]

Ah, this sounds like we're getting somewhere. Are you in the opinion of the base layer to be something like a general truth? That's where I just can't find peace. Is there something like a natural original state? Is the base layer the real thing or is is just the Urgedanke?

Conspiracy theorists would say that the layers are there to obscure the true meaning and syphon the energy through the symbol like that (however that works outside social dynamics) while the 'all is fine' folk would say that each layer adds to the meaning of the symbol and is equally important as the symbol expands into infinity, or some such.

Neither really rings true and I wonder if there is a paradoxical balance to be found here.

[EarthBowl]

Originally Posted by Czymra

Are you in the opinion of the base layer to be something like a general truth? That's where I just can't find peace.

I took a basic philosophy class once. It was Plato, I think, who believed in universal truth, universal beauty etc. Something all other truth, beauty etc. was based on - independent of us or our judgements.

I could go both ways here. First Source could be the source of the universals, but if I thought that was true- wouldnt I again be trying to put the Source of All, in my little box.

...a Wingmaker quote I have on my wall;

"The fundamental frequency of expression that issues from First Source- is appreciation of life in all its forms with a love that is absent of condition or judgment."

LOTS is happening now... frequencies, energy; my understandiings are changing every day. I don't know whats true or even who I am.
But I LOVE IT!

[Dakini]

One thing that just came to mind...and those with a physical science mind would explain it better than me...

Close to the basic 'building' blocks of physical life are geometric patterns. Our DNA is apparently crystalline, so from there, physical structures are built. Less tangible are the waves, the alchemists views of the prima materia, the formless base of matter. Particles, waves...wouldn't it seem that symbols then emerged and have evolved ever since?

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by Dakini

One thing that just came to mind...and those with a physical science mind would explain it better than me...

Close to the basic 'building' blocks of physical life are geometric patterns. Our DNA is apparently crystalline, so from there, physical structures are built. Less tangible are the waves, the alchemists views of the prima materia, the formless base of matter. Particles, waves...wouldn't it seem that symbols then emerged and have evolved ever since?

Good point, I never heard that DNA is crystalline but that the evolution of shapes that are basic to life is a great argument, one that is more convincing than the repeating of 'images are universal'. Thanks.

I'll look differently on the symbols around me and hope that the biological models I have been taught are correct.

[Dakini]

Another idea that just came in...
images can come from nature...so think about the shapes that have been on earth, as well as other planets and star systems...

I think all this is very interesting. Thanks for stimulating us all, Czymra.

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by Dakini

Another idea that just came in...
images can come from nature...so think about the shapes that have been on earth, as well as other planets and star systems...

I think all this is very interesting. Thanks for stimulating us all, Czymra.

Yes, that reminds me of that film about the electronic sun, in which they connected all the ancient symbols and identified them as cosmic constellations, the centre of the galaxy or electric filaments.

Quite interesting to uncover some of these origins. I wonder how many modern symbols one could map like that. I imagine quite many. Maybe I'll have a go.

[Czymra]

I have had a discussion with the guy owning the YouTube channel mentioned above. He came across with some interesting statements. I shall paste this discussion here:

Me:

Hello,

I've been following some of your videos, they are very exciting even if a little too overloaded for my liking. However, hands down, the editing is superb.

I have a question that has been on my mind for some time now, and hope that you might supply me with a track of some kind.
Symbolism, to me, has mostly seemed like interpretation of an image at first. It was only recently that I caught on to a deeper meaning, that is, that there is specificity attached to a symbol, which is most likely from a source outside of the mind (meaning interpretation can only happen in the context of what else is known).
What was once sporadic became much more concise but I still struggle with the concept of 'one meaning fits all' that seems to be continuously used throughout your series.

It is clear that a symbol encompasses a spectrum of meaning, however, that the meaning is represented, or even manifested, doesn't necessarily point to just that one end of the spectrum, which in your videos, would constantly be the masonic/illuminati/nwo interpretation (more on that later). My thinking here is that the signifier acts as a tool to for an entity, not as a tool for the quality, even though it might be associated with that symbol.

Thus, my question is, what do you conclude from your research into these topics as to the power of a symbol? Is there really such a thing as a true meaning and if so what forces manifested that meaning in the first place?
Or is it rather an interplay between the signified and the consciousness as it observes itself while the signifier merely acts as a tool (this would rule out a constant masonic interpretation)? If the latter is the more accurate dynamic, then I wonder if the power of a symbol comes through the numbers of believers (or let's say, a telekinetic emphasis through attention) or some other source.

Any insights would be highly welcomed.

All the best,
Czymra

Reply:

The power of a symbol lies in it's unspoken meaning in the collective consciousness grid. Since we are trapped in the mind body cognition system..
and later trapped in the program known as the "soul" or afterlife hologram.. It is
through symbols that we can more clearly define the walls of our odorless trans~ dimensional prison system. There are no true meanings in this slave like existence where we adhere to form.. Therefore no symbol is absolute.. and if anything, they have been constructed by the warden(s) of the prison to keep us fascinated and thus content within their trap. That's not to say, human beings can't collectively use symbols for a positive purpose.. It is simply a much more difficult task to do so. And to your final question.. Yes.. A higher quantity of concentration on a form from multiple beings amplifies it's effect within the consciousness grid. Think of it as a computer upgrade many people have a hand or rather a thought in creating and empowering.

Cheers,
Soundless

Me again:

That sounds like you've been to lyricus and wingmakers a lot.
But thank you for your answer. It puts different words on similar meanings and certainly helps me to understand.

Allow me to ask one last (set of) question then. You might be familiar with Zen philosophy and how it tries to removes the signifier completely from the understanding of the world. Do you think there can be a thing that is outside the system of signification (not necessarily outside the mind body cognition system/human mind ? Is a material object already a symbol? Is a grain not already a symbol?
On another level, isn't it an achievement to create something that eludes meaning and do we not all buy into this mind system by leading a discourse about the systems tools?

I know this drags a little but hearing the same questions spoken again in different words shines light on the matter already.

Thanks,
Czymra

Reply:

I believe it is only significant on a primal level.. for those experiencing 3D existence in the 'Now' ~ But once said experiences are likened to the newly learned information that you are encased in a flesh computer system known as a body, it immediately becomes of lessor importance.. as the focus is now centered on freedom.. rather than you finding enjoyment in experience, as it has always been preprogrammed for you.. Free Will even being a cleverly crafted program.

Yes material objects oscillate at a musical tone specific to them, and thus are symbols unto themselves.. We as human beings could manipulate them endlessly once we learn the causality of this phenomenon.

An achievement is also a program which revolves around your ego/actualization parameter as a human flesh system. During the experience however.. The creation of music (for instance) from nothingness ~ A seeming creativity out of the void, seems to transcend certain aspects of the prison system and remind us of our former selves. Still again ~ We may lack the knowledge to describe an experience as current ~ But that doesn't mean there isn't a holographic definition for it that resonates with the undefinable.. and then renders it finite.

and do we not all buy into this mind system by leading a discourse about the systems tools?

There is no definable characteristic of "buying" into the program ~ It seems no matter what life you attempt to lead ~ You can better or worsen the situation for yourself and those around you ~ without even consciously realizing it.

Cheers,
Soundless

It's full moon today - though it's overcast in my local area.

[Czymra]

You bet, and I suddenly saw it through the branches in the forest, then scrambled all the way to see it closer, took a terribly bad photo, hurried home to catch my camcorder and tripod, went on a field and recorded it, to realise it sucks seeing it on video.

Curiously it's just opposite of Venus when I looked at it.

However, no_caste, you do post wherever you feel like these days, huh? May the search be with you.