If you are seeking 'salvation', evolution of your soul to the next density. Read this

[pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Anchor

You have very clearly demonstrated why it is important to discriminate.

There are as many different perceptions truths as there are humans/perceivers. Sometimes we can share those perceptions, other times we cannot - they are not valid for the observer on their path at this time.

The way I read your message was that your ego was having a bit of a wrestling match with what TimeIsShort was trying to say. Thats ok too. You both do us all a service with your contributions.

Is the bout over? I cannot say, though I doubt it. This is a fight that ultimately the ego cannot win.

@TimeIsShort: At times it can be frustrating to put effort into a message to see it rejected, but it seems to me that this is the way the game has to be played.

Thanks to all of you.

A..

Anchor,
The receiver receives what the receiver wants to receive...,but sometimes the transmission is garbled, thus, misinterpreted..,sometimes.
I was stating my observations and by no means engaging in a war of words of which I am ill equipped for.
My post was/is not meant to offend nor embarrass, but to give my opinion to the thread.
New ageism tends to tell us that the ego is a bad thing, but as ego is part of the human personality and will always be, until such times 'til the chip comes in, we will always have a human personality/ego and long may it be so. It's what makes us different and has little to do with our spiritual being.

And as far as fighting is concerned, well., I think war has proved how unproductive that is.
No malice was intended in my reply to 'TimeisShort' and if it offends, then please remove it.
Tom

[333mark333]

Originally Posted by ctophil

So you are saying that we should be one with the "creation" (people like us) and not with the "creator?" Why do you separate yourself from the creator? Doesn't He know better than you, since after all, He created you? You talk about all this "separation" being a bad thing, but you end up leaving out the MOST IMPORTANT person, The Almighty!

It seems like a mass majority of people would rather follow and worship the "creature" (which means the one that was created) than the Creator Himself. The "philosophy" that you talked about seem to be very loving and peaceful on the outside, but won't get you anywhere without the Creator. Because He knows what is best for you. If you leave out Father Yahweh (which is the true name of the Almighty), then all you get is rebellion.

So my question is this....what is this "salvation" you seek? Can you really save yourself (I guess with the help of other people)? Do you get eternal life? Because frankly, eternal life is only through Yahushua (the Son of God), and then Yahweh will give you the gift of life. Life is ONLY through Him, not from other people, plants, animals, mother nature, or whatever.

-Phillip

Creation is creator
You have the same geometric patterns as our earth and the universe.
Your body is physical patterns and soundwaves formed from Light and birthed from the Thoughtforms of YHWH.

Oh BTW you are the most important person

Remember the Kingdom lies within-not without, thats being seperated.

[williamfmartin@gmail.com]

I discovered these teachings and "Carla Ruckerts" channelings years after they took place. For me... "It was life changing".
Everything I read was something I knew, but had forgotten.
"Ra" woke me up...
I am honoured and humbled to have discovered this memory complex.
Ra Lives in all of us...

Unconditional Love;
Wayne

[Realview]

The creation is highly stratified. Most paths lead nowhere if not to hell. The path is only as good as it's living teacher. Dead teachers are no more effective than a dead doctor would be. Wandering in the dark, on your own, is naive and useless. The old methods and paths won't even raise your spirit to the heart center of the spiritual material regions. In fact, it's extremely rare for anyone to ever reach the third eye in full consciousness. Countless people are deceived even in this regard. Ancient practices are not effective and can not be followed with any success today. The Devil is spreading an almost unlimited number of misdirections in an effort to keep the spirits here. That's what all of the conspiracy stuff is really all about. Human birth is the most important and priceless of opportunities. Only a human has potential access to the entire creation and can be anything from the serial killer to the true saint. Philosophy and rationals amount to nothing but deception and waste of a golden opportunity.

[GregorArturo]

Nice point Allie. That's exactly what I was thinking when reading Phillip's piece. I really hope Phillip you're not basing your beliefs on translations. I am a Classics major learning latin, and hopefully ancient greek after that, with my ultimate goal in mind being sanskrit (reading the Vedas first hand). Take a look at the Emerald Tablet, which is one the greatest pieces of philosophy out there. There's a bunch of translations out there but only upon reading in Latin do I understand it much more. I can't even imagine if I could read it in it's root language what it may even hide.

Another serious point, LANGUAGE IS FLAWED! I don't know how many times I've gotten hung up on discussing philosophy with people because we don't know how to convey it in words. The only true language is one in which nothing is lost is translation or the conyeing of the message, which is mathematics. One could also consider the language of the soul to be a true language, but being it is riddled with metaphors, the translation of the message may be somewhat arduous.

Universal truths are the knowledge of the universe, which can be discovered from within without any outside influences.

Another question I ask, why does these writings, such as the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls, transcend other ancient philosophies such as the Vedas? The Vedas were so important that they were committed only to memory, versus being written on paper promoting forgetfulness of the texts. The forgetfulness can only be lifted once they're discovered in a cave by a shephard boy. The Vedas are technically as old as 3,500 years, but there has been prevailing evidence this past decade they could be as far back from 8,000 BC!

The Rigveda which was the first of the four Vedas, and I believe it was equalivent to 16 Odysseys in length, was committed entirely to memory. That means that a society for up to 10,000 years memorized this important text and passed it down through the ages.

What's even more interesting is the hymns within the text, in relation to the short and long sound vowels in the hymns, are based off of Phi, the Golden Ratio.

The ultimate language passed down for 10,000 years in a cryptic, metaphorical language, like that of the soul, for us to learn of in this day and age. And if you have a background in the past decade plus developments in Atlantis, or the existence of a pre-Sumer maritime civilization, it wouldn't be that hard to put one and one together in that hey, maybe these folks in India know what the hell they're talking about.

If I had to put my so called faith in an outside source, I think it would have to lean toward 10,000 years of a society's dedication, then someone who thought these important piece of writings should sit tight in a cave for the next generation of people to find.

So what do I believe? 1.618. Because where ever I go there it is. I can see it in your appearance. I can it in a tree. I can see an ancient epic. I can see it the god forsaken stock market! It is everywhere! And that my friend, that is truth. The real question is, how do you interpret it and apply it to your own life.

[Allie]

You don't have to convince me of the unreliability of language I'm with you all the way.

From a psychological perspective - Society...communication....it all functions on shared understandings of any given word.

What I mean when I mentally envisage any given word before it's spoken - say 'liar' or 'lover' for example, is based on my personal experience of a liar or what love means to me. What anyone else's interpretation of those words is depends on their experiences, too. There may not be a complete correlation between the two.

Language for some - especially children - is black and white. Ask a child for their version of 'liar' and it can be as simple as being told they can go to the park later. It pours with rain, they can't go so the person who told them they could has not told the truth - ergo, they are 'liars'.

For some, language is intensely introspective and personal, for others less so. This is probably why human beings fail to understand each other - they rely on imperfect, shared understandings.

Have I thread-jecked here?

What is the topic of this thread? I lost track about 2 pages ago. Maybe the OP of this thread can give us an overall summary of the discussion.

[GregorArturo]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What is the topic of this thread? I lost track about 2 pages ago. Maybe the OP of this thread can give us an overall summary of the discussion.

The topic was only about sharing the Ra Material to people. At most, it was a detailed recommendation. However, as usual with any forum, people began to denounce the material and express their negative views toward it. Phillip (ctophil) then began his usual preaching of his beliefs, shooting down the Ra material. Some joined in with him, however, me and few others decided to defend some philosophical truths about beliefs, not necessarily the Ra material specifically. The tone has moved from being a tad hostile and irrational, to becoming more rational and productive.

[Jack]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What is the topic of this thread? I lost track about 2 pages ago. Maybe the OP of this thread can give us an overall summary of the discussion.

Indeed the topic of this thread has been lost quite some time ago.

Its original focus was on "The Teachings of Ra" and somehow in the confusion it turned into a completely unrelated debate on Yahweh.

I will try and give a brief summery of the topic, it might get things back on track.

• The life we are living right now in this third dimensional reality is in fact a schooling ground to evaluate if our souls are ready to transcend to the next dimensional school.
  
• We are not here to change the world, we are here to change ourselves.
  
• If the world was different, ie ; A peacefull and a nice place, the majority of people incarnated here would be somewhere equally as challenging as our current earth.
  
• The purpose of this life is to transcend the illusion of duality.
  
• We will not change our circumstances by trying to change the world, this can only be achieved by changing ourselves. We are all one, so when we change ourselves we are in effect changing everyone.
  
• (Nearly forgot the most important one) - Earth is currently undergoing a shift into the fifth density, for quite a few decades earth has been vibrating in the 4th density, which is why many will have noticed their thoughts becoming reality with relative ease. To move with this shift we will each have to raise our vibration to one of love and acceptance. - I was hoping that this would be the topic of discussion.

That is a brief overview on the intended direction of this thread.

[dayzero]

>

[ctophil]

In totality everyone, Yahweh Elohim intentions are not to go out there and boss people around and to destroy ones who don't want to obey Him. That is not His intentions. He is a loving and caring Elohim who wants every one of us to inherit His Kingdom of Heaven and to be sons/daughters of the Most High. However, He is also VERY strict with His laws and commandments for your own good. Don't you all think that a "good" dad is always more strict and more correct about his teachings than a "drunkard dad?" A drunkard dad who cares less about your well-being and salvation will only try to benefit himself and cause others to suffer. His teachings are pointless and serve only to protect himself.

The "drunkard dad" scenario I just described briefly compares itself to Satan. And the children of Satan would be just like their father.
Do you all believe that you know more than Yahweh does? In fact, He knows more about you than you know about yourself. Why do you continue to depend on yourself or deceptive ways that can only lead to death? Can you really save yourself? Can Ra or the Queen of Heaven save you? Why do you worship and follow gods that can't even begin to comprehend what life is, much less grant you eternal life?

As to Gregor, there are certain things I don't need to argue or convince you about. I am not here to argue but only to bring the Truth from Yahweh's Spirit.

-Phillip

[GregorArturo]

Originally Posted by ctophil

In totality everyone, Yahweh Elohim intentions are not to go out there and boss people around and to destroy ones who don't want to obey Him. That is not His intentions. He is a loving and caring Elohim who wants every one of us to inherit His Kingdom of Heaven and to be sons/daughters of the Most High. However, He is also VERY strict with His laws and commandments for your own good. Don't you all think that a "good" dad is always more strict and more correct about his teachings than a "drunkard dad?" A drunkard dad who cares less about your well-being and salvation will only try to benefit himself and cause others to suffer. His teachings are pointless and serve only to protect himself.

The "drunkard dad" scenario I just described briefly compares itself to Satan. And the children of Satan would be just like their father.
Do you all believe that you know more than Yahweh does? In fact, He knows more about you than you know about yourself. Why do you continue to depend on yourself or deceptive ways that can only lead to death? Can you really save yourself? Can Ra or the Queen of Heaven save you? Why do you worship and follow gods that can't even begin to comprehend what life is, much less grant you eternal life?

As to Gregor, there are certain things I don't need to argue or convince you about. I am not here to argue but only to bring the Truth from Yahweh's Spirit.

-Phillip

If you're not hear to argue, than why is the argument in which you just presented, over why Yahweh can save you over these other gods such as Ra? Because if you actually LISTENED to our side of the argument. NO ONE IS WORSHIPPING THE GOD RA!!! No one has (or at least presumably) for over a millenia! Your words alone, outside your beliefs, are showing blatant ignorance within your own argument.

There may certainly be truth from Yahweh's spirit, however, you are doing a very poor job of communicating it.

And please elaborate on these 'certain things', because all you have been trying to do on these forums is convince people on some of these 'certain things'. Vague terms only make you seem more hypocritical in nature, and also further your failure in communicating this supposed divine message.

If you want to start your own thread to bring forth your truths, then go for it! You have all the right in the world to do that. But when you step onto someone elses turf (ie this thread) and want to play ball, then you better play by the rules, and that means become familiar with the material before patronizing it and making ridiculously ignorant statements toward it.

Now I'm going to give you a hug via that of an intangible positive thought and let you be on your merry way, and hopefully I can read your message from a more positive position within your own thread.

[Heretic]

all paths, both esoteric and mainstream are paths that lead to an infinite consciousness

none are right nor wrong

none are all seeing nor blind

none are demonic nor angelic

there are infinite paths to that which is infinite


all are impermanent despite claims made otherwise and old paths will be abandon for new ones as you have been and will be on this path for eternity

and through our travels the names will change along with the context they apply to


"cast ye not stones before thy brethren lest he stumble and fall upon his path"

be they working along a lesser or greater path than your own


hey, I can preach too!

[Dadrious]

Originally Posted by Heretic

all paths, both esoteric and mainstream are paths that lead to an infinite consciousness

none are right nor wrong

none are all seeing nor blind

none are demonic nor angelic

there are infinite paths to that which is infinite


all are impermanent despite claims made otherwise and old paths will be abandon for new ones as you have been and will be on this path for eternity

and through our travels the names will change along with the context they apply to


"cast ye not stones before thy brethren lest he stumble and fall upon his path"

be they working along a lesser or greater path than your own


hey, I can preach too!

And on that note, I bow out.

[J_rod7]

*
***

Elohim Yahweh was an Ego-Centric MAN who came down in his Space Craft to Enslave certain groups of People. ALL religions are FALSE, as they Blind Human Beings to the Truth of Creation. Religions divide Humanity into warring camps, set one against one another for 'control' of the Populations of Earth.

Creation IS above ALL 'gods'. Creation is the Conscious Spirit Alive in ALL the Universes. The Universes ARE, in actual Fact, the Living Embodiment of Creation. The Spirit of ALL Human Beings are a living 'spark' from Creation, and as such, are always an Evolving aspect of Creation itself. The Spirit of Human Beings NEVER lose their 'connection' with Creation, even though We suffer the 'Illusion' of Separation while We inhabit physical Bodies. That which has no Ending, can Not have a Beginning.

In Peace, which Passes all Understanding

***
*

[borrasca2012]

JUST STOP DISCUSS DE TAILS ......

COME EVERYONE in its full POTENSIAL......


there is no bigger god or creator "outside" as we are.......


come in our full P o wer , find the creater within



................ and perhaps find some time to "meditate" in wich form however


and don"t use so much ENERGI to write nonsens


I REALLY HOPE THAT THE INTERNET IS SHUTTING DOWN SOON


and people use the time to get ready to go on water



....U CAN WRITE AND READ AND KNOW SOOOO MUCH........BUT



.....does it really help u ???


KEEP ON FOKUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Allie]

May I just say, Phillip, that you simply cannot take an ancient text and translate it in modern times with an expectation of finding truth or accuracy.

Accuracy is lost - not merely in translation of aramaic to Greek and then into English - but because there are cultural and historical differences that we simply cannot understand. We cannot extrapolate the mindset of ancient Judea into modern Western understanding.

[arcora]

@Arturo,

You're right that language is flawed. It is religions want people to focus on the nuances - the micro details of what this verse or that passage means.

Comprehension of the broader message is what counts - and that message transcends the vaguaries of language.

As an example of what I mean...

Can you determine the message of this post?

Originally Posted by borrasca2012

JUST STOP DISCUSS DE TAILS ......

COME EVERYONE in its full POTENSIAL......


there is no bigger god or creator "outside" as we are.......


come in our full P o wer , find the creater within



................ and perhaps find some time to "meditate" in wich form however


and don"t use so much ENERGI to write nonsens


I REALLY HOPE THAT THE INTERNET IS SHUTTING DOWN SOON


and people use the time to get ready to go on water



....U CAN WRITE AND READ AND KNOW SOOOO MUCH........BUT



.....does it really help u ???


KEEP ON FOKUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GregorArturo]

Originally Posted by arcora

@Arturo,

You're right that language is flawed. It is religions want people to focus on the nuances - the micro details of what this verse or that passage means.

Comprehension of the broader message is what counts - and that message transcends the vaguaries of language.

As an example of what I mean...

Can you determine the message of this post?

Excellent point. However, the message isn't that cryptic or metaphorical in terms of 'figuring it out'. But instead of wasting our energy bickering in a forum over spirituality, we should take it into the real world to make a difference there.

Yet, to answer that, I feel there is an excellent lesson(s) to be learned by anyone participating in this discussion so I choose to remain.

[Allie]

I am finding this thread/discussion really interesting We all have a point which we feel is valid It's good to hear these points

I would like to support GregorA's statement that many, many of us have had spiritual experiences which are pretty amazing. Mine began when I was six years old. Like Gregor, I don't speak of them much but it was via a direct experience that I learned of the enigma that is 2012. I didn't find it in a book or on an internet site. It came to me.

There is much duplicity about today - how can anyone truly trust where their information is coming from? It is impossible to know. Perhaps we all think it's coming from God. Therefore, you have to bring in your own discernment and, as Gregor says, look into your own soul/self for the answers. We perhaps also need to see the world and/or its inhabitants as a mirror, reflecting our self-acceptance (or lack of) back at us.

It is said that in the Piscean age man has been reliant on saviours. In the Aquarian age, man must become responsible for himself and for his own actions. We cannot keep looking to outside forces to 'save' us

[BeaTnik-BandiT]

Originally Posted by TimeIsShort

Because the only way anyone will ever get out of this dimensional reality

TimeIsShort, what do you imply by this ?

Because as long as you try to run away from something, it will pursue you.

In my own spiritual understanding of things, we all came here to live the Human condition,
to remember 'who we are' and restore the connection with ALL that IS, the source of all creations.
By doing this, (without any INTERFACE), we empower ourselves and get ALL the HELP we need.

We came here on Earth to experience the difficulties of duality in the 3rd density.
We're here to 'fix many issues' and transcend them to the next level.
Trying to 'get away' from this will make you run in circles.

TimeIsShort, i agree with you that we must first change ourselves, because by applying - this very simple truth - the WORLD in which we live WILL follow.

Thats the gift given to all of us.

It's not a matter of trying to eacape to other densities or dreaming of foreign paradises and/or following whatever teachings, be it good or bad:

---It's NOW, HERE ON EARTH, (in this plane, 3rd density) that the work must be done. ---


salute.

[GregorArturo]

I just wanted to share some of the new Hidden Hand material, even though it seems a lot of people are shrugging it off. Anyways, Hidden Hand summed up a good point for us to remember when dealing with say fundamentalist beliefs:

Question: “Many of my friends and family are Christians, and they would likely think the same. How would one even go about presenting this information to a person of that mindset? I am not here to "spread your gospel", but I would definitely like so share this with a few of my friends.”

Hidden Hand: How can you present anything to ones who have no desire to have their belief system challenged?
They will believe what they want to believe, and nothing you or I can say is likely to make any difference. It becomes ingrained at a subconscious level, and when a belief structure becomes that insidious, the only way it is likely to change, is through a 'mystical experience' or such a personal demonstration of 'another way' in the life lived of 'another', that one cannot fail but to notice that there is 'something different' about them. How can you reach such as these? Only by example.


Also, I wanted to share this with Philip, see if it makes him think (that's what the Ra material is suppose to make you do 'think,' not worship the sun god Ra), or he'll probably just cry out blaphesmy

Question: “How do you justify that the current British royal family line is the true bloodline, but Ishmael is not the true receiver of Abraham's gift? If you're true bloodline, you'll know what I mean.”

Hidden Hand: Who says it is the 'true' line? There were Ruling-Bloodlines long before your 'Yahweh' and his 'Christianity' arrived on this planet. Yahweh is 'a' Creator, not 'The' One Infinite Creator. There are other and Higher 'gods' than him. Ultimately, All, are a part of The One, and either consciously, or unconsciously, exercising their Free Will to Create. Begin to study 'outside of the box' for a True understanding of the Creation.

The British Royalty is not the most powerful line. The names that you know, do not hold the real ancient power. There are others above these lineages in the Hierarchy. You will not know the names of these lines.

[ctophil]

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

I just wanted to share some of the new Hidden Hand material, even though it seems a lot of people are shrugging it off. Anyways, Hidden Hand summed up a good point for us to remember when dealing with say fundamentalist beliefs:

Question: “Many of my friends and family are Christians, and they would likely think the same. How would one even go about presenting this information to a person of that mindset? I am not here to "spread your gospel", but I would definitely like so share this with a few of my friends.”

Hidden Hand: How can you present anything to ones who have no desire to have their belief system challenged?
They will believe what they want to believe, and nothing you or I can say is likely to make any difference. It becomes ingrained at a subconscious level, and when a belief structure becomes that insidious, the only way it is likely to change, is through a 'mystical experience' or such a personal demonstration of 'another way' in the life lived of 'another', that one cannot fail but to notice that there is 'something different' about them. How can you reach such as these? Only by example.


Also, I wanted to share this with Philip, see if it makes him think (that's what the Ra material is suppose to make you do 'think,' not worship the sun god Ra), or he'll probably just cry out blaphesmy

Question: “How do you justify that the current British royal family line is the true bloodline, but Ishmael is not the true receiver of Abraham's gift? If you're true bloodline, you'll know what I mean.”

Hidden Hand: Who says it is the 'true' line? There were Ruling-Bloodlines long before your 'Yahweh' and his 'Christianity' arrived on this planet. Yahweh is 'a' Creator, not 'The' One Infinite Creator. There are other and Higher 'gods' than him. Ultimately, All, are a part of The One, and either consciously, or unconsciously, exercising their Free Will to Create. Begin to study 'outside of the box' for a True understanding of the Creation.

The British Royalty is not the most powerful line. The names that you know, do not hold the real ancient power. There are others above these lineages in the Hierarchy. You will not know the names of these lines.

And yet you still believe a member of the "bloodline" who claims his father is "Lucifer." And when Lucifer is called the "Father of Lies." Do you not realize that this "hidden hand" (although his name tells you a lot about his secretive nature and lies) is part of the "ruling elite" that is enslaving you at this point in history on Earth? Yeah, their philosophy of "love and peace" and is whipping and slapping you until you say, "yes sir or yes ma'am." Go do your research and understand who the "Illuminati" really are. And don't think that the power stops there. The "Illuminati" are only the beginning of the ruling class of this world.

Seek the Kingdom of Yahweh FIRST (and nothing else) and then all shall be provided to you, including more Truth that you all (I stand corrected, most of you) seem to sway away from. There is an absolute small remnant who know what I'm talking about.

-Phillip

[GregorArturo]

Originally Posted by ctophil

And yet you still believe a member of the "bloodline" who claims his father is "Lucifer." And when Lucifer is called the "Father of Lies." Do you not realize that this "hidden hand" (although his name tells you a lot about his secretive nature and lies) is part of the "ruling elite" that is enslaving you at this point in history on Earth? Yeah, their philosophy of "love and peace" and is whipping and slapping you until you say, "yes sir or yes ma'am." Go do your research and understand who the "Illuminati" really are. And don't think that the power stops there. The "Illuminati" are only the beginning of the ruling class of this world.

Seek the Kingdom of Yahweh FIRST (and nothing else) and then all shall be provided to you, including more Truth that you all (I stand corrected, most of you) seem to sway away from. There is an absolute small remnant who know what I'm talking about.

-Phillip

LOL. Phillip here's a good lesson in discussing something with an open minded individual. If they share a piece of information with you, it does NOT mean they necessarily believe in it, or even for you to believe it. READ WHAT I AM TYPING! As I just said, I hope this piece makes you THINK! Think damnit think! Stop reciting, stop with this consistent dead end linear thinking. There's so much more to life! And all it starts with is a number. A simple yet endlessly complex number. That is truth my friend, and undying truth that can never EVER be denied.

When a truly opened minded individual comes across a piece of information, they do not accept it, believe it, deny it, scorn it, take it for the word of god. No, no. They simply take it into consideration to aid in their understanding of what this reality MAY be.

[Dadrious]

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

LOL. Phillip here's a good lesson in discussing something with an open minded individual. If they share a piece of information with you, it does NOT mean they necessarily believe in it, or even for you to believe it. READ WHAT I AM TYPING! As I just said, I hope this piece makes you THINK! Think damnit think! Stop reciting, stop with this consistent dead end linear thinking. There's so much more to life! And all it starts with is a number. A simple yet endlessly complex number. That is truth my friend, and undying truth that can never EVER be denied.

When a truly opened minded individual comes across a piece of information, they do not accept it, believe it, deny it, scorn it, take it for the word of god. No, no. They simply take it into consideration to aid in their understanding of what this reality MAY be.

Well said, but you likely cannot get through to these people. I prefer to be more blunt and direct. They have given away their mind, heart and soul to a wretched entity. I speak up because somebody has to do it, somebody has to stand up to it, before they get in a position where they can create another mass sacrifice to this deity of theirs. Another crusade in the name of their "god". Entire cultures and civilizations of people have been wiped off the face of the earth by the followers of this...deity, the god of murder. Only the name and cover changes...

And they think they are opposing evil, of course.