WingMakers Transformation

[Chris1617]

This is a thread for posts relating to the WingMakers Transformation. People researching the WMM (WingMakers material) experience this in different ways. It is usually a definite and notable gradual process of changing and evolving consciousness.

In my case it occurred suddenly as a Thunderous Silence of Zen on 17 September 2001 in which I literally died to myself or experienced the metaphorical First Source Dagger of Light that "renders your self importance a decisive death." This was experienced after two-three years of keen interest and study since the material went online in 1998 culminating in two weeks of intensive research and writing all-day every day after purchasing a small library of books on world mythologies, images and symbolism as I wrote the basics of Chamber 6 Paper to make available to those others who might want to know and wish some help in coming to understand the predominant meanings within WingMakers Chamber 6 painting.

Please feel free to share your own experiences and discuss or ask respectfully about anyone else's experiences. Remember that the essential nature of the experience is indescribable and this is one reason why it has seldom been spoken of in the past; too many words just get in the way and create different images and impressions and feelings in different people. When silence becomes institutionalized though it is time for someone to say something, as long as those words are spoken in the spirit of spiritual sharing.

The following is a brief account of my experience.

In my case then, it was the Thunderous Silence of Zen. It has been given many names down the ages and has many different characteristics depending on the person. It has also been called the Transformation, though there has, unfortunately, been a lot of meaningless hype around that term.

Simply put, it is when a tremendous surge of energies completely overwhelm one and ones sense of being -- though one is perfectly conscious and not hallucinating or "seeing" anything -- cascading through the body up into the brain. It is a completely incomparable feeling and ecstatic experience in which one feels absorbed into the universal consciousness. It seems to surge with a roaring sound through the body and one experiences death -- or what one imagines death to be. You are gone, no longer there, and no longer like before. The body is there but mine felt completely hollow afterward. Like a shell; as though one is just a spirit living in a body that moves.

This is not always the sensation in daily activities, since, of course, at regular times one is demanded to focus on self as being something finite, personal, and simple for the sake of practically and efficiently interacting at work and performing duties with others.

Upon Transformation, ones ego consciousness becomes like unto a small point on an ocean of greater consciousness and it goes wherever one puts ones focus. In this sense it is the death without dying -- because your body is still actually here but the old former consciousness is not. This is mentioned in many mythologies and is sometimes referred to as the Mythic Death. By it the consciousness is changed permanently. From my experience I know there are three levels. I experienced it to the end of the second level, when it occurred. The Buddha, for example, would have experienced this to the third stage, as no doubt, did Neruda in the Ancient Arrow Book (see www.wingmakers.com).

Billy Meier might regard this as an “overshadowing by the spirit” (or words to that effect), an experience Billy has spoken of which a Figu member said my experience reminded him of when I was discussing it with him. Of course, it isn't any "thing", and Zen has long said it doesn't exist; but it certainly can be experienced and brings a level of understanding about death, consciousness and the real meanings behind many of the world's mythologies and beliefs. Because it is so difficult -- impossible -- to actually describe, mythologies often make it an anthropomorphic experience for the populace, but then misunderstandings and erroneous beliefs based on ignorance, not knowing (through experience), surface.

One of my first thoughts after the experience was, "Why don't I have some advanced scientific electronic equipment wired up to myself so that a comprehensive display of all brain activity, energy, emanations, frequencies and wavelengths, could be printed out before, during and after the experience; thus definitively documenting and recording the changes that have occurred?" I believe this will happen for someone at sometime in the not-too-distant future, and I encourage anyone researching the WM materials to utilize such equipment when it becomes available and is practicable and seen to be safe.

At a loss as what to do to record the experience I took up a pen and attempted to write something. Here is my vain attempt to capture some essence of it in words, writing immediately after the experience:

The Thunderous Silence

A force, sound and power roaring and reverberating through my being.
Wave after wave of bliss coursing through the body.

Things look different. All is changed.
Everything is both great and minute.
Everything seen as both within and without.
All is a matrix neither solid nor void.

Me too.
I am a hollow vessel.
I see the endless stretches of the universe everywhere.

Reality is both magnificent and insignificant, a joke and a job;
but I see no work:
Just the handicraft of existence woven by Creation and mankind.

How marvelous is life.
How full of significant insignificance.

The light coming from my ballpoint pen as I write this at night,
a blazing sun penetrating the darkness of the cosmos in my bedroom.
A universe before me swimming with life, as vast as all the seas of earth;
yet as static as a solitary stone at rest before my eyes on a gray and windless day.

The closest thing I have ever read to this experience in modern times is Billy Meier’s flying to a far distant galaxy and experiencing, in what appears to be the realm bypassing space that made the journey possible, a kind of bodiless feeling that due to its ecstasy almost made him weep. Billy's experience was obviously different, though if equated, would at least be the third level of the Mythic Death experience. Billy’s experience was, of course, a completely different type of experience and I would not try to classify his experience for him. I sense, however, there was some kind of similarity on some levels.

The Transformation or Thunderous Silence is an incredibly physical experience and is absolutely ecstatic. In fact it was so beyond anything I had imagined I couldn’t weep. I am sure the experience ushers in genetic changes of some kind. What changes, we will have to wait for science to tell us when it catches up with these things.

Chamber 17 painting is a pictorial representation of the transformation. For more on this and further details of my experience see my Chamber 17 Paper aka Chamber 17 essay at http://www.wingmakers.com/products2.html where you can also access Chamber 6 paper. Chamber 1 paper is a free download. Just click on the link at the bottom of the page. It will give you a general idea of what these chamber painting papers are like. John and Darlene Burges have also written some essays on a few of the paintings.

Chris

[Gnosis5]

Okay, we are just beginning to touch the surface of this.


I have not experienced that Thunder of Silence. When I read your description what I recall personally is a time when I experienced what is called "stillness of mind". I know of one other person who experienced similar. He described it as being like a tiger ready to pounce and I described it as an avenging angel (without the "vengeance").

Another close encounter with Thunder of Silence was during my first PEAT session when the facilitator asked me to go to my spiritual home. I had two "places" in mind and I chose to penetrate through a membrane and when I popped out on the other side I saw a large sphere (I was a little sphere of like kind). The large sphere looked like a static with potential, awesome potential, but awesome quietness. I suppose that is what some describe as zero to infinity.

When I saw this I immediately realized that I can be anywhere I choose, and I choose to place my awareness here and I'm happy with that and I am doing my clearing work to help me stabilize that integration of awareness (or not, whatever I so choose).

Alas, these awarenesses were brief, but one never forgets them. It is not so much that I wish to always have my mind stilled or to always be in awareness of the "Sphere", but to be able to change my mind about being fixed in one place or another. As a being of course I can natively still do anything, but I have placed some restrictions on myself that no longer serve me and I am piercing the occlusions and viewing the source of these restrictions. After the end of a really good session I often say to myself, "I don't have to do that anymore" -- unless I consciously choose.

I'm glad that you mentioned the time and resources you spent before you achieved this state. Based on my own experience I imagine that you somehow cleared your own way to this experience. I imagine you had to effect some prior changes in yourself in order to experience the Thunder of Silence. I am also impressed that it seems to be a permanent state for you. All of my previous "Ascensions" have been unstable. I now think I know why and am putting in the necessary groundwork before I go off on another ascension experience, because coming down off the mountaintop is a bit rough on me

Some of this is off-topic. I have already spent hours reading the Wingmakers material and look forward to a discussion.

In my search for a definitive cosmology I have also read "Cosmic History" by "The Pilot", and "Alien Primer" where he also talks about multiverse or hyperverse. In my subjective research I have gone back as far as over one quadrillion years, but it is still a drop in the time bucket and I am laboriously making my way to recover my memories back to that moment I separated from Source Sphere (my own words).

My grasp of science is weak, but I am making some headway because people believe science first and I need a bridge to communicate. However, I agree with Dr. Neruda that BST is not the correct solution.

From the Wingmakers I perceive that art is also a bridge. The art is the most valuable discovery IMHO.

Re the Animus, we once encountered something that seemed to be a being that was very frozen up -- so frozen that I wanted to call it an "it". "It" was obeying orders. I have seen myself and others outfitted with android bodies, but usually after a lot of force and duress had occurred back and forth, and when released, we eventually bounced back and went on to other experiences.

In your state or soon-to-be state you can simply know. I am still laboring under the strain of all of the "not-know" decisions I made and the resulting blindness. I am working to regain my choice to know or not-know. I trust that what the Wingmakers left behind will aid me.

cheers!
Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

About the "Animus" and the Luciferian dissension, does Prime Source really need a game? What will happen to Prime Source if Animus wins?

[becky]

Hi Chris,
Thank you for starting this thread and for sharing your transformation. You too, Gnosis. It is right on time for me. I stumbled on the Wingmakers site about a year ago, maybe 2. I had received a powerful email from someone and the credit went to the Wingmakers (but no link). So I searched around and found the site. I spent the next couple of months devouring everything that was there, Lyricus too, and I purchased some of their music. I started journaling while listening to the music and observing the chamber paintings and I definitely felt "triggered" to go to new depths of myself.
Somewhere along the line, I got distracted, or lost interest. This is common with me, darnit. Plus my husband thought the whole thing was pretty nuts and just a way to make a buck, so that wasn't very helpful.
Anyway, I've recently been skipping back over there to see what was new. I meditate at the event temples site and am just dipping my toe back in.

But, I have often wondered what tangible results other people experience with this material. And so that is why it is fascinating to read your post. How has this transformation affected your day to day living? Where will you go from here? What are you currently working on? How do you relate to people, problems, finances, emotional swings, etc.? I'm just full of questions, aren't I?

Thanks for your willingness to share--I'm off to wingmakers to kick it with James and Co.

LOVe, Becky

[Gnosis5]

Hi, Becky, good questions for Chris. A question for you: can you please explain how it triggered you to go to new depths of yourself? For example, did you become more artistic?

When I read about LERMA I recalled a time in Africa when I materialized a small object. Here is another good example of LERMA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5od7Kk0OmNA

love,
gnosis

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Chris1617

The following is a brief account of my experience.

In my case then, it was the Thunderous Silence of Zen. It has been given many names down the ages and has many different characteristics depending on the person. It has also been called the Transformation, though there has, unfortunately, been a lot of meaningless hype around that term.

Simply put, it is when a tremendous surge of energies completely overwhelm one and ones sense of being -- though one is perfectly conscious and not hallucinating or "seeing" anything -- cascading through the body up into the brain. It is a completely incomparable feeling and ecstatic experience in which one feels absorbed into the universal consciousness. It seems to surge with a roaring sound through the body and one experiences death -- or what one imagines death to be. You are gone, no longer there, and no longer like before. The body is there but mine felt completely hollow afterward. Like a shell; as though one is just a spirit living in a body that moves.

This is not always the sensation in daily activities, since, of course, at regular times one is demanded to focus on self as being something finite, personal, and simple for the sake of practically and efficiently interacting at work and performing duties with others.

Upon Transformation, ones ego consciousness becomes like unto a small point on an ocean of greater consciousness and it goes wherever one puts ones focus. In this sense it is the death without dying -- because your body is still actually here but the old former consciousness is not. This is mentioned in many mythologies and is sometimes referred to as the Mythic Death. By it the consciousness is changed permanently. From my experience I know there are three levels. I experienced it to the end of the second level, when it occurred. The Buddha, for example, would have experienced this to the third stage, as no doubt, did Neruda in the Ancient Arrow Book (see www.wingmakers.com).

Billy Meier might regard this as an “overshadowing by the spirit” (or words to that effect), an experience Billy has spoken of which a Figu member said my experience reminded him of when I was discussing it with him. Of course, it isn't any "thing", and Zen has long said it doesn't exist; but it certainly can be experienced and brings a level of understanding about death, consciousness and the real meanings behind many of the world's mythologies and beliefs. Because it is so difficult -- impossible -- to actually describe, mythologies often make it an anthropomorphic experience for the populace, but then misunderstandings and erroneous beliefs based on ignorance, not knowing (through experience), surface.

One of my first thoughts after the experience was, "Why don't I have some advanced scientific electronic equipment wired up to myself so that a comprehensive display of all brain activity, energy, emanations, frequencies and wavelengths, could be printed out before, during and after the experience; thus definitively documenting and recording the changes that have occurred?" I believe this will happen for someone at sometime in the not-too-distant future, and I encourage anyone researching the WM materials to utilize such equipment when it becomes available and is practicable and seen to be safe.

At a loss as what to do to record the experience I took up a pen and attempted to write something. Here is my vain attempt to capture some essence of it in words, writing immediately after the experience:

The Thunderous Silence

A force, sound and power roaring and reverberating through my being.
Wave after wave of bliss coursing through the body.

Things look different. All is changed.
Everything is both great and minute.
Everything seen as both within and without.
All is a matrix neither solid nor void.

Me too.
I am a hollow vessel.
I see the endless stretches of the universe everywhere.

Reality is both magnificent and insignificant, a joke and a job;
but I see no work:
Just the handicraft of existence woven by Creation and mankind.

How marvelous is life.
How full of significant insignificance.

The light coming from my ballpoint pen as I write this at night,
a blazing sun penetrating the darkness of the cosmos in my bedroom.
A universe before me swimming with life, as vast as all the seas of earth;
yet as static as a solitary stone at rest before my eyes on a gray and windless day.

The closest thing I have ever read to this experience in modern times is Billy Meier’s flying to a far distant galaxy and experiencing, in what appears to be the realm bypassing space that made the journey possible, a kind of bodiless feeling that due to its ecstasy almost made him weep. Billy's experience was obviously different, though if equated, would at least be the third level of the Mythic Death experience. Billy’s experience was, of course, a completely different type of experience and I would not try to classify his experience for him. I sense, however, there was some kind of similarity on some levels.

The Transformation or Thunderous Silence is an incredibly physical experience and is absolutely ecstatic. In fact it was so beyond anything I had imagined I couldn’t weep. I am sure the experience ushers in genetic changes of some kind. What changes, we will have to wait for science to tell us when it catches up with these things.

Chamber 17 painting is a pictorial representation of the transformation. For more on this and further details of my experience see my Chamber 17 Paper aka Chamber 17 essay at http://www.wingmakers.com/products2.html where you can also access Chamber 6 paper. Chamber 1 paper is a free download. Just click on the link at the bottom of the page. It will give you a general idea of what these chamber painting papers are like. John and Darlene Burges have also written some essays on a few of the paintings.

Chris

For me... this sounds like a classic kundalini awakening... the rush of energies all up to the head and even higher... the merging with the universe.... the ecstacy... and even the death.... few things can be more profund then the awakening of the kundalini... and few are aware of the strenght of it....until they experience it themself...

hughs

[becky]

Wow, gnosis. Thanks for that amma link. I was blessed to hug Amma last year in Los Angeles. I stayed up all night waiting for my turn along with thousands of others packed in a hotel ballroom and bursting out of every adjacent room. It was such a beautiful night that I will never forget. She sat for hours without stopping, just hugging, and hugging, and laughing. As far as I could tell, she never even stopped to stretch her legs or pee! She is one of the masters among us.

ANyway, sorry for my ignorance, what is LERMA? And what was the small object you materialized, may I ask? How powerful!

As for me, it's hard to remember now exactly what was happening while I was in the trenches with the wingmakers materials. But, what sticks with me the most is a general sense of deep, somewhat magical, spiritual growth. The 3D world seemed less intimidating and more like a chess game and I had a growing appreciation for my specific role in the movie. (This is kinda vague, I know, but it's been a couple years.....)

Also, gnosis, what is PEAT?

And on your question about Animus--although I need to go back and reread all of that, could it be that there is no competition, that it is like learning to love your own shadow? It will always be there and no one ever wins? It seems like I just read something from James, and I might bothch this but, about how after ascension there is still expansion, not just a floating around heaven kind of thing. Like the wingmakers wouldn't offer us a Phd. in this plane and not have a job for us in the next dimension.

DId that even speak to the topic? I think my pea brain just exploded.

Thanks for the prodding....
Becky

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

It is not so much that I wish to always have my mind stilled or to always be in awareness of the "Sphere", but to be able to change my mind about being fixed in one place or another.

One is never in a permanent state of divinity while in human incarnation. The permanent change in consciousness is not that one is ever divine. There would be no point in being here if that were so. Tis human to err and fore'er we're human. The idea a "Master", whatever that is, can make no error is itself in error. This was brought home to me very clearly in the first few days after the experience. Just as James mentioned, the Corteum Brain enhancement technology mentioned in the AA Book is a metaphor for the transformation. This has decidedly distracting effects for about 6 months until one becomes acquainted with the new consciousness and the way everything looks.

The Transformation brought with it, for me, a flowing of energies throughout the upper regions (exactly those shown in Chamber 17 painting). These energies are very physical and flow from around the upper chest/neck area up into the face and around it and over the head and into the brain. These are what the color bands on the face in Chamber 17 depict. The energies went in exactly those places, in flowing lines; it was an amazing thing to experience, and, of course, revealed to me what the Chamber 17 imagery was about in that respect. Prior to the experience I had not anticipated this in any way. It was a complete surprise.

The distraction is very noticeable and you keep looking at things registering how they are different from before. The body, for example, has the sensation that it could walk through walls. As an example I was walking through what had always been a dingy walkway to the subway train, but now, of course, it looked much lighter and spiritual than before. I had to reach out and touch the wall to ensure that my hand wouldn't pass through it, and, of course, it didn't. But for several months you are doing things like that as you re-equate the physical body with reality again. It is also a way of registering the change in consciousness and confirming the fact that you are still here. The Buddha did this when he famously touched the earth with his hand to "bring it forward as a witness to his enlightenment."

So, to the point of this diversion, I was so distracted on about the second day after the experience that I completely forgot about a university exam that I had to monitor that day! It taught me right away that Transformation doesn't mean you'll never make a mistake again.

I'm glad that you mentioned the time and resources you spent before you achieved this state. Based on my own experience I imagine that you somehow cleared your own way to this experience. I imagine you had to effect some prior changes in yourself in order to experience the Thunder of Silence.

There were considerable periods of time when I was just too busy with the day job, teaching at unis, to get to the WMM and it is important to not let one's everyday world slide into neglect in any way. I am convinced that the painting imagery coupled with decoding its meanings had an effect on me. It is important to mention that I didn't necessarily believe what I was reading and uncovering, or the philosophy the painting was so eloquently illustrating in far greater detail than the writing.

I do distinctly remember the very night of (or the night before) the Transformation after just realizing what the Sovereign Integral was and its position within the painting and philosophy, thinking, or rather feeling, "Wouldn't it be wonderful if this is the way things really are." I didn't believe it. I was inquiring, investigating, and wanting to know.

I had just been devouring my research for about a month whenever I could -- and especially during the last two weeks of solid uninterrupted all-day every day final research and writing up the findings with virtually no interruptions at the end of the summer recess. It had all required a great deal of both left and right brain work and you are probably aware that James has said exposing oneself to the WMM leads to the creation of certain clusters within the thalamocortical system in the brain and other areas (ILN) that appear to catalyze the change in consciousness.

I am also impressed that it seems to be a permanent state for you. All of my previous "Ascensions" have been unstable. I now think I know why and am putting in the necessary groundwork before I go off on another ascension experience, because coming down off the mountaintop is a bit rough on me

I am not without my challenges and trials. I became so sick a few months later that I almost died. This was because of certain errors in my lifestyle that I thought were actually correct finally coming to a head. I had to rethink all of that too and get it right. Things are much better now, and it is an eternal blessing to have Source ever before you when you can relax and become yourself. I remarked to Mark Hempel at the time that it was really strange sitting in the back of an ambulance in a state of Buddhic consciousness.

My grasp of science is weak, but I am making some headway because people believe science first and I need a bridge to communicate. However, I agree with Dr. Neruda that BST is not the correct solution.

Science is only knowledge and truth, but some scientists tend to believe in science, which to me betrays a lack of scientific professionalism. There should be no necessity for belief in science. Ideally for me belief arises when knowledge is unavailable, and it is important to acknowledge ones beliefs and that they are only beliefs and may one day be proven incorrect. Even with the Transformation one doesn't know everything there is to be known, and so beliefs can arise. Even Source is still engaged in that quest in which we are the Human Instruments assisting It.

It is completely impossible to change the past, although I don't recall exactly that this is what 15 was literally trying to do. (Unlike Neruda the Transformation for me did not bring a photographic memory. It tends to enhance ones abilities more than bring completely new ones.) Such would be the eradication of portions of the experience of Source or ones spirit. Completely impossible. I've posted more on this elsewhere or at Camelot.

From the Wingmakers I perceive that art is also a bridge. The art is the most valuable discovery IMHO.

For me art is the closest Human Instrument expression to the visual experiencing of Source through the psyche and mind. Sound is also a very powerful means of communion; and listening to the WM music while studying, absorbing, searching, and researching the paintings especially the corresponding painting numbers provides a very powerful combination.

Re the Animus, we once encountered something that seemed to be a being that was very frozen up -- so frozen that I wanted to call it an "it". "It" was obeying orders. I have seen myself and others outfitted with android bodies, but usually after a lot of force and duress had occurred back and forth, and when released, we eventually bounced back and went on to other experiences.

James has said the Animus are already here. They represent the alien -- to spirit, as well as ETs -- that are vying for our attention and subservience. Their promise of power is probably their strongest tool. They will not win. The planetary change in frequency will confound them and place mankind in the advantage.

In your state or soon-to-be state you can simply know. I am still laboring under the strain of all of the "not-know" decisions I made and the resulting blindness. I am working to regain my choice to know or not-know. I trust that what the Wingmakers left behind will aid me.

A speaker at a meeting I attended last night made a very astute point. To paraphrase: Any concern, worry, fear you now find yourself in was caused by your past actions based on your past thoughts that weren't in tune with the reality you wished to create or the one in development in the world at large. Assessment of where we are and where we wish to go from here is forever ongoing and as we get better at it we grow in wisdom. This path is eternal.

Chris


cheers!
Gnosis[/QUOTE]

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by becky

Hi Chris,
Thank you for starting this thread and for sharing your transformation. .... Plus my husband thought the whole thing was pretty nuts and just a way to make a buck, so that wasn't very helpful.

Hi Becky,

I know no one is making any money at WingMakers LLC. Mark and I have a "financial" agreement based on trust, and I know he isn't making money on this. It just covers his costs, basically -- and probably not his input in terms of time spent with p&p. I don't think I've ever taken cash in payment for the papers from WingMakersLLC. Mark just keeps a record and I draw from and even add to it to make up the cost to order a large print of the next painting I "decode".

How has this transformation affected your day to day living? Where will you go from here? What are you currently working on? How do you relate to people, problems, finances, emotional swings, etc.? I'm just full of questions, aren't I?

Pretty much like anyone else. I just do my best. It led to me writing a few papers. These were published at Osaka University of Arts, and the junior college, and were very well received, actually. So that was very nice. From here I will go out and meet a friend. Actually, I'm planing on writing three or four books. One on the future and Nostradamus, one on the WingMakers paintings, one on palmistry, and one on Visionary Semiotics. Like most people I have to work for a living and have to work under time constraints. I'll try to address your other points when I have time. They are lengthy topics.

Chris

Thanks for your willingness to share--I'm off to wingmakers to kick it with James and Co.

LOVe, Becky[/QUOTE]

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by Artemis

For me... this sounds like a classic kundalini awakening... the rush of energies all up to the head and even higher... the merging with the universe.... the ecstacy... and even the death.... few things can be more profund then the awakening of the kundalini... and few are aware of the strenght of it....until they experience it themself...

hughs

Hi Artemis,

Yes. This is another name for it.

Chris

[Gnosis5]

Hi Becky,

Firstly, the rich vibrant colors and the seemingly endless details caught my eye. This morning I was looking at one painting and I was almost about to get into the mind of the artist as he was painting it. I backed off a little from the shock and promised myself I would pursue this when I have more time. Aesthetics is a superfine frequency, very close to static, thus its high appeal.

There was an age in another universe when beings created art portals. One walked into the "painting" and it was wonderful.

Glad you got your Amma hug. I got mine in Toronto. She was surprised to see me -- her prodigal daughter.

Dr. Neruda explained LERMA (spelling?) as a being's ability to manifest physical objects. When I was in Africa, sounds silly, I manifested a toothpick -- well you would have to know the whole story. That toothpick was really important at the time

PEAT is a more developed version of EFT http://spiritual-technology.com/eng/index1.php. What I appreciate about PEAT is its special multi-viewpoint processing. I love all processes that get one to see the truth within themselves and help us dispel the lies we have been carrying around with us.

Becky, I think you are right, the more I feel at ease with myself as a being the more I feel at ease being here (and anywhere else).

cheers!
gnosis

Originally Posted by becky

Wow, gnosis. Thanks for that amma link. I was blessed to hug Amma last year in Los Angeles. I stayed up all night waiting for my turn along with thousands of others packed in a hotel ballroom and bursting out of every adjacent room. It was such a beautiful night that I will never forget. She sat for hours without stopping, just hugging, and hugging, and laughing. As far as I could tell, she never even stopped to stretch her legs or pee! She is one of the masters among us.

ANyway, sorry for my ignorance, what is LERMA? And what was the small object you materialized, may I ask? How powerful!

As for me, it's hard to remember now exactly what was happening while I was in the trenches with the wingmakers materials. But, what sticks with me the most is a general sense of deep, somewhat magical, spiritual growth. The 3D world seemed less intimidating and more like a chess game and I had a growing appreciation for my specific role in the movie. (This is kinda vague, I know, but it's been a couple years.....)

Also, gnosis, what is PEAT?

And on your question about Animus--although I need to go back and reread all of that, could it be that there is no competition, that it is like learning to love your own shadow? It will always be there and no one ever wins? It seems like I just read something from James, and I might bothch this but, about how after ascension there is still expansion, not just a floating around heaven kind of thing. Like the wingmakers wouldn't offer us a Phd. in this plane and not have a job for us in the next dimension.

DId that even speak to the topic? I think my pea brain just exploded.

Thanks for the prodding....
Becky

[Gnosis5]

Chris, thank you for taking the time to respond to my last post.

If the Thunder of Silence is the same thing as Kundalini Rising, then technically the chakras are re-aligned, or merged, is that correct? I have to admit, I'm still ignorant about chakras and Kundalini effects.

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by Gnosis5

Chris, thank you for taking the time to respond to my last post.

If the Thunder of Silence is the same thing as Kundalini Rising, then technically the chakras are re-aligned, or merged, is that correct? I have to admit, I'm still ignorant about chakras and Kundalini effects.

You're very welcome, Gnosis5,

I don't personally think in terms of the chakras. Personally, I think too much emphasis is given to this way of talking about the subtle energies, which may be spiritual energies behind or loosely corresponding to the physical organs. I am far less sure that science will find the chakras than I am that it will prove the existence of the spirit and catalog the transformation process.

The transformation energies arose from the neck areas, which are the purple areas on the Ch 17 painting and which correspond to the glands on either side of the neck there. These are also mentioned in the video on Buddha Boy on you tube (see Buddha Boy thread). He was noted to have enlarged neck glands.

It is possible these are what is really symbolized by the throat chakra rather than the adenoidal center. The third eye IMO is just a depiction for the central area of the brain and the glands there at temple or low forehead height but actually inside the head and brain. IMO the chakras were just an early attempt to depict these centers in two dimensional format. They have since taken on a mythology all their own.

Kundalini effects are different for each person experiencing it, just as each person experiences reality differently and has a different personality. You will know what they are when you experience it. If I have time I may share some more of mine but they are not really that important, though some do carry important messages for the individual having the experience, and often these are applicable to a larger or even the broader section of humanity as a whole.

Chris

[Ashatav]

I stoped believing in the wingmakers material when I read in the second interview with Dr. Neruda that the Bush senior's New World Order is what they want to this world.
Read it in the second interview!

The people must know these kind of information about wingmakers.

Cheers

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by Ashatav

I stoped believing in the wingmakers material when I read in the second interview with Dr. Neruda that the Bush senior's New World Order is what they want to this world.
Read it in the second interview!

The people must know these kind of information about wingmakers.

Cheers

Hi Ashatav,

Dr Neruda, didn't want Bush's New World Order. Read it again -- carefully.

Also the WingMakers material is not something to be believed in, it is not a new religion of any sort. It is something for people so inclined to research into for where it will lead them. Since it is a mixture of fact and fiction and referred to as a myth (in the modern Joseph Campbell sense of the word) it is a catalyst for change and evolution not something to just be believed in.

Chris

[Gnosis5]

Chris, I agree. CAVEAT EMPTOR with anything that comes from exterior viewpoints. I always assume any higher level being has some personal issues, simply because I have yet to meet one who did not. As all of us would agree, none of us is perfect, not even the Wingmakers or the Central Race.

Anyone who emphasizes that one learns to access truth from oneself is being of service. I could perhaps have chosen the guru path, but I choose to honor the font of truth within the individual. Exterior viewpoints simply give me ideas for my "truthing" path.

NWO gets a bad name because it has not proceeded from pure hearts. Enough people need to let go of their greeds and compulsions before any type of government will work. In fact, no government is necessary when beings are truly egalitarian. I am sure those anonymous higher level beings can conceive of this at some point in our re-development.

[becky]

Thank you for the depth of the responses here. It is food for me right now.

Sending golden love and compassion,
Becky

[Gnosis5]

Aaaahhhhh, thank you, I needed that golden love and compassion, thank you.

[Ashatav]

Originally Posted by Chris1617

Hi Ashatav,

Dr Neruda, didn't want Bush's New World Order. Read it again -- carefully.

Also the WingMakers material is not something to be believed in, it is not a new religion of any sort. It is something for people so inclined to research into for where it will lead them. Since it is a mixture of fact and fiction and referred to as a myth (in the modern Joseph Campbell sense of the word) it is a catalyst for change and evolution not something to just be believed in.

Chris

Let's put the part of the interview in question

First, I put that Neruda says that the Wingmakes want the New World Order, I didn't say Neruda want NWO.

Second, if all the people in the world is perfect a global order will work, otherwise NOT, it just make a world incapable of oposing a global totalitarian state.

Let's see...


Sarah: "I also read the memo that Dr. Sauthers [a colleague of Dr. Neruda] wrote about a global culture being an outcome of this technology from the WingMakers' sites. But how could these objects be used to build a global culture? It seems a little naive to me."

Dr. Neruda: "All I can tell you is that it's related to the Internet and a new communication technology that the WingMakers referred to as OLIN or the One Language Intelligent Network. If you read the glossary section that I left behind, you'll see it referenced there. The WingMakers seem to feel confident that the OLIN technology will help create the global culture through the Internet. This incidentally is consistent with prophecies that the Labyrinth Group was privy to dating as far back as 1,500 years ago. Of course the enabling technology wasn't called OLIN, but the notion of a global culture and unified governance has been predicted for many centuries."

Sarah: "[COLOR="Red"]This is what George Bush used to call the New World order isn't it? [/COLOR]

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but there have been four other presidents who've acknowledged this concept."

Sarah: "What would make the world's people decide to unify under one governing body, or for that matter, create a global culture--whatever that means? I just can't envision it happening--not in my lifetime."

Dr. Neruda: "According to the WingMakers it will happen through the digital economy and then through the Internet's OLIN technology platform. And through this global network, entertainment and educational content will be globalized. This is the basis of a global culture with unified commerce, content, and communities. Once these pieces of the infrastructure are in place, then the need to govern this infrastructure will loom as the preeminent issue of the day. And the United Nations is the logical ruling body for such an endeavor. As long as the World's people allow the digitization of the economy and embrace the OLIN technology platform, a global government and culture is virtually assured to emerge."

Sarah: "And as you said last night, this is supposed to occur in 2018?"

Dr. Neruda: "According to prophecy, that's when the United Nations will hold initial elections for a unified world government. And it won't be an all powerful, centralized authority, but rather a global public policy decision and enforcement organization for issues that effect the world at large. Issues like pollution, global warming, border disputes, space travel, terrorism, trade, commerce, OLIN technology upgrades, and general technology transfer programs."

Sarah: "So what will happen to National sovereignty in this new role of the United Nations?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'm willing to answer your question in the form of a speculative response, but I'm also aware that you had asked me at the outset of this interview to remind you if you got off course. What would you like --"

Sarah: No, you're absolutely right. Sorry. Let's go back to the artifacts--what was the condition of the site when you first entered--or better still, why don't you just describe your first encounter going inside the site."

Cheers and judge by yourselve.

[Gnosis5]

I guess it depends on how important "National Sovereignty" is to you as a spiritual being having a human experience :-)

[TruthWillSetUFree]

The Wingmakers material resonated very deeply with me as does Lyricus and I meditate at the event temples a few times daily.

I do not see myself writing a paper like you did, I did purchase yours by the way chamber 17, it was excellent, very well done and informative. It enabled me to view the painting in an entirely new way. Thank you.

How can one continue to evolve with the materials without doing an in depth paper?

In the first discourse, it said we are not able to have transformative experiences in our human instrument.

Teacher: Haven't I just told you you cannot experience this state in the human instrument?
From Lyricus First discourse

So if we are not able to have them, how can we/you have the kundalini experience you spoke of?
I have been working on attaining this state for years, not to have it like a prize rather as a consequence from all the work I do on my shadow aspects, letting go all that is not me, or my pure state, to transcend my ego, but now I am confused hearing this.

I know it is not something we earn or work for it sort of just happens. It should also not be the focus of ones spiritual practice, But why does Lyricus state that it is impossible?

Also, I have a feeling that James is Dr Neruda. Have you ever felt that too?

I hope to hear from you soon.

Love & Light

[TruthWillSetUFree]

One more thing. In another Wingmakers thread there is a copy of the interview with Dr Neruda concerning the plans of the NWO.

When the interviewer pressed further with the question, Dr Neruda changed the subject.

This is worrisome to me that he didn't give any sort of response.

In an age where there is so much disinformation I feel this should be cleared up once and for all, especially for the people who support Wingmaker's.

It is not uncommon to hear about many different religions and organizations where the members at the bottom think it is a legitimate only to find the members at the top belong to secret societies and work against the common good of man and their freedom.

Thank you for your time

I would hate to think this of Wingmaker's but everything should be questioned since we have been so grossly misled with just about everything.

[Gnosis5]

Yes, I have experienced what you brought up. Last night I listened to the James Interviews. He postulates that the consciousnesses that he is interacting with are merely our "quantum selves".

The only defense against this possibility is to carefully look for the tiniest, often overlooked details, such as what you brought up. If you watch the Ben Fulford interview of David Rockefeller you will catch on. Also, non-responses need to be looked at too, because often that is the area of deepest abberration in an individual.

However, the BEST DEFENSE, is to develop your own ability to go and look for yourself. You might need a facilitator -- I'm lucky to have my husband.

In the James Interview I took what rang true to me and the rest I simply lightly took it in. The best disinformation artists skillfully mix truth with mix-ups.

My motto: Take the Goodies and run!!!

Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree

One more thing. In another Wingmakers thread there is a copy of the interview with Dr Neruda concerning the plans of the NWO.

When the interviewer pressed further with the question, Dr Neruda changed the subject.

This is worrisome to me that he didn't give any sort of response.

In an age where there is so much disinformation I feel this should be cleared up once and for all, especially for the people who support Wingmaker's.

It is not uncommon to hear about many different religions and organizations where the members at the bottom think it is a legitimate only to find the members at the top belong to secret societies and work against the common good of man and their freedom.

Thank you for your time

I would hate to think this of Wingmaker's but everything should be questioned since we have been so grossly misled with just about everything.

[Gnosis5]

Re the James Interviews: http://www.wingmakers.com/whats-new.html


James did put some emphasis on people following some sort of "clearing" path or process or methodology, and he left the details up to the individual. That felt like a big gap to me, but I understand his reluctance to specifically endorse any one process because there are many.

Right off the top of my head, some effective clearing methodologies are the meridian-based processes such as EFT and PEAT. Other clearing methodologies are Mace Method, R3X, Idenics -- I call this category the "psychotechs", or identity management processes.

I know personally that all of the above methodologies work when applied correctly, but EFT is probably the easiest because all of the others require two people working together.

A real simple semi-clearing trick is to give a neutral acknowledgement when one experiences a negative reaction to something or someone. For example, "I acknowledge that I'm afraid". Be as specific as possible.

The man who interviewed James, IMHO, has a very valid concern that people might not be able to immediately do what James says we must do, and that is my ongoing concern. Even, myself, as wholehearted and devoted as I am to clearing myself, I cannot do all of the things that James admonishes us, but I do notice that I am "getting there" due to having my weekly R3X sessions.

Can anyone else add to this short list of clearing methods?

[TruthWillSetUFree]

In the James Interview I took what rang true to me and the rest I simply lightly took it in. The best disinformation artists skillfully mix truth with mix-ups.

My motto: Take the Goodies and run!!! [/QUOTE]

Good advice Gnosis, I agree.

I use, "By their fruits you shall know them" unfortunately "fruits" can be what is purposely put out there as propaganda, such as the Bill Gates Foundation then the conspiracy theories of these organizations reveals them as fronts for eugenics programs.

The one flaw in the human being is not being able to tell truth from falsehood.

As one opens the third eye in spiritual discernment we see all is of God and all a part of the plan for evolution. Still for me, continually choosing to be of the light, I must know that whatever I am affiliated with or choose to allow into my auric field is pure in heart, word and deed.

We are always in the process of change and as such a one world government is not a bad idea per se IF all are able to remain free individuals.
It is only because of what we have heard regarding the United Nations as being luciferic that we oppose a one world government. I think anything can be either good or bad depending on who is running the show and what their intentions are.

It was from this perspective, given the content of all three websites, that I continued my 'faith' in it as 'good' for the planet.

I am interested in what Chris has to say on this.

In Love & Light