The 'Hidden Hand' a PROPER & 'POSITIVE' discussion of the material ONLY here!

[shijing]

Originally Posted by AMA-GI

If i may give my opinion here, this infomation that Hidden_Hand has revealed is true to my knowledge. I do not know if he has just said what was written on the Ra books. But i know this to be true from a different source.

Nothing but good can come from this message, and this was the purpose of it.

Hi Ama-Gi -- Are you able/willing to disclose the different source that you have access to that confirms the Hidden_Hand data? I am curious to know -- it may be useful to the community!

Also, how do you reason that nothing but good can come from this message? I don't assume that it is entirely negative, but I am very wary of what I consider a common strategy, where truth is mixed in with non-truth in order to either (a) make the non-truth more credible or otherwise (b) discredit the original truth.

Best regards

[NOWIAM]

I wasn't satisfied with Hidden_Hands explanation for a "Negative Harvest".

Would someone care to elaborate further on this concept?

[peterh]

It means, that thes collect the profit of the seed of evil they but in the world. The royalty of the Tyranny never involve them self in evil actions, they work a s seducers and not a destroyers. The destruction is don by the seduced ones them self, in a act of selfdistraction. For every war, people volunteer as solders to kill the "enemy out side there", not understanding that the enemy is there one egoism bigotry hypocritical greed and arrogance. The royalty of evil only over you this possibilities and provoke the conflicts, and this is the seed of evil and the human race is the ground where this seed can only grow according to the nature and quality of the ground. If the human race would free them self from egoism and selfaddiction, this seed would die and not grow.

It is even the reason too for the occult con-tracts, wen they but in the open what they plane to do. If you do Nothing against it, or better do something constructive as a harmonic symbiotic replace for it, you agree in the actions to come, and you open the door for your self sacrifiction.

In this way the royalty is never enfolded them self in the action of evil, otherwise they would be involved in the negative effects them self. They only offer you a possibility, like a drug dealer only offer you the drug and it's op to you to take it and sacrifice your self in a chemical slavery, for a little chemical good feeling illusion. If you wake op in your misery, desperately searching for the next shoot, you do everything to pay the dealer for the next trip, or only silence the pain witch rise up as a symmetric counter reaction of the chemical illusion. The drug dealer get rich, but you choose your self to take the drug and destroy your self for a chemical lie. And you know it before, you saw the consequences it by many other people.

So to "Negative Harvest" means to gain in the material and occult energy from the seed of evil, the seducers plant in to the human race. All the drugs of self addictions will let the people destroy them self and each other for the benefit of the luciferians and there higher demons.

In this way they gain the energy from there seduces victims, they set free by destroying each other and them self, like a drug dealer whit his chemical slavery. And they can keep them self away from the problems, like the boss in the drug business can bay his kingdom fare away from the ghettos and the gang wars, where his money come from. Hi gain and build his luxury paradise, and the others act as demons in there own hell to feed him. They can so parasite the life energy to lift them self up over there victims and there ghettos, and move there parasitic tyranny kingdom in the next cycle, like a drug dealer his kingdom in the next generation.

This will fail in the moment, wen the human race in a critical mass is not seducible anymore, falling in one of the countless traps and drugs of egoism. In this moment the kingdom of the drug dealers collapse, and all the negativity wash them away they create them self. The drug dealer will sit for the rest of his life in prison because of mass murdering and enslaving and his empire ends, and the luciferian tyrants can no lift up them self in the next cycle and fall in the matter and there one darkness like there victims before. And our pain will be later there one destiny to complete the experience they and also we ask for, be acting as egoists.

So, they can only "Harvest" what we let grow in as.

[seekur3]

I basically agree with Truthwillsetyoufree. There was a part in HH's ramblings about others works/writings/channelings were always less than 100% accurate. I think the same standard should be applied to HH.
YOU decide which 10% is deception.

[shijing]

Originally Posted by NOWIAM

I wasn't satisfied with Hidden_Hands explanation for a "Negative Harvest".

Would someone care to elaborate further on this concept?

Hi NowIAm -- I hope that this link will be of use to you regarding negative harvest, as well as the idea of harvest in general:

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=902

[giovonni]

Greeting's to all,
I agree with those who have questioned the validity of this posted material. While, "The Hidden Hand" (from the ATS site), radiants many long accepted truths, with its very well conceived arguments. IT, also radiates false flags of deception; Especially, too those human beings who are just becomnig! Consider -this post as an exercise in discernment. If, it pushes you to learn more, it is a positive lesson. BUT, if it rings too well with logic- and has a chance in leaning your opinion, that "THEY" (the service to selves), are just "OUR" benevolent counters- shame on you!! It is quite obvious, this individual is arrogant, and fishing for sympathetic understanding; too a means in easing his conscious decision- for the path he choose. Especially from those of you, who might be overwhelmed by "OUR" (service to others) future prospects, for if, we fail to wake-up and act quickly -indeed- there will be a negative harvest! Note, it is not called the "Lucifer Soul Group" - for nothing.
My best to all my fellow like minded ones, giovonni

[Pharaoh9969]

PeacefulWarrior, appreciate the sharing of this enlightening insight. To the Hidden_Hand or Hidden-Hand; thanks for the knowledge and out-formation. It is truly divine.

Love conquers ALL!

[peterh]

(NOWIAM), I am sorry, like you can see in my signature, my english is bad, i have to literally translate word by word to english. Mach easier i can not explain it, it is a very difficult topic, and full of traps and mines.

Important is to understand, that the tyrants and the most powerful people in the tyranny we have on this planet, are occultists and preachers. There ideology comes out of occult knowledge, and there strategies make use of this knowledge.

I can not see what they believe, this things are kept very secret, but i expect the most believe because they are not involved directly in the materialistic actions, there are free from karma (cause-and-effect, or super symmetry). But what they really do is only to move there cycles of cause-and-effect on a higher larger timeframe. They plane and act in 100 and 1000 and more of years, and there "day and night" cycles, cause and backeffect cycles, take longer time. They can push and expand this cycles larger, if they find victims to let them do this, but they can not break it. Even wen on there perspective they have free them self from karma, it is a lie. The lie is only mach bigger and intelligent then the lies they use to guide the humanity in to there wars and hells. The backeffect is Nothing else then the compliance of the response of questions they and we ask to the reality and to explore this reality, so karma it is not punishment or fix, it is a symmetric system to allow free will and keep him in responsibility until the cycles and so the experiences are completed we ask for, by using our free will in a specific way.
And i expect, some of them know all this.

Important is to understand, more bigger your intellect is, more bigger the power is to generate lies and illusions witch imprison your self. And the most strongest lies are partially true, but incomplete and twisted.

This we call evil, is the destructive effects of parasitism, and the cause for parasitism is egoism. And behind the materialistic parasitism of gaining money property and power, is energetic and higher dimensional parasitism, witch we normally call demonic. But the parasitism works only if they can seduce as to play our roles of self destruction, if we stop to be egoists, there power ends and there empires collapse. So the hard work witch we are not willing to do, is to honestly clean up our egos from egoism. And all real and true spiritual teachers have tray to show as the ways to do this.

Mach more i can not explain whit my poor english. And this complex difficult and even dangerous topics can not be explained whit less text, only whit more. If you want understand something so difficult you have to be studious and investigate time and patience. If you still have questions, pleas explain carefully what you like to know, if i have some understatement to offer i tray to respond. (i search me self for answer of difficult questions, the understatement of "god and evil" is one of the most difficult and sometimes painful one, specially if you search for deep understanding and not only some new-agy beliefs.) a final understanding can only be found on transcendence, and this means to wake up in infinity, obviously not jet the case for all of as here. We still are on the way.

[Reunite]

No need to opologize PeterH

I read your posts with a german accent in my head

[Frank Samuel]

Since I was born my parents went to church and they where told about the end of days, we are all going to die, the choosen ones will go to heaven. 50 years have come and gone, most of the people talking about the end of days in that church are already gone from this planet. For 1000's of years people have been prophesicing about the end of days, I hate to be the one to rain on your parade, my memory is very good. I know how my family lived thinking
that the world will soon come to an end. My conclusion is we have been program, brainwash, with the doom and gloom. Yet it is happening day in and day out, so why are we waitting for something that has been happening for thousands of years. War and Havoc has been a part of the history of this world before this planet was created. This is why I say to you , time to wake up , deprogram your brainwash virus infected hard disk , better known as your brain. We have all the tools to change this history of doom and gloom.
Call your awakening what ever you want to call it but for God's sake wake up.
Is easy to manipulate masses of people on the doom and gloom, fear is a very powerful weapon, even if you die today do you really think that you are dead and gone ? If a nuclear bomb exploded in Australia, another in Europe, another in China, another in america, who's going predict whose going to die and whose going to live. My take why worry, live and be happy, you can be part of the living or join the doomers who preach about dying and death.
Death will come soon enough no need to go looking for it , it will find you in due time, in the meantime love, enjoy your life, help others in any way you can.Join the living my friends

[sammytray]

Originally Posted by Frank Samuel

Since I was born my parents went to church and they where told about the end of days, we are all going to die, the choosen ones will go to heaven. 50 years have come and gone, most of the people talking about the end of days in that church are already gone from this planet. For 1000's of years people have been prophesicing about the end of days, I hate to be the one to rain on your parade, my memory is very good. I know how my family lived thinking
that the world will soon come to an end. My conclusion is we have been program, brainwash, with the doom and gloom. Yet it is happening day in and day out, so why are we waitting for something that has been happening for thousands of years. War and Havoc has been a part of the history of this world before this planet was created. This is why I say to you , time to wake up , deprogram your brainwash virus infected hard disk , better known as your brain. We have all the tools to change this history of doom and gloom.
Call your awakening what ever you want to call it but for God's sake wake up.
Is easy to manipulate masses of people on the doom and gloom, fear is a very powerful weapon, even if you die today do you really think that you are dead and gone ? If a nuclear bomb exploded in Australia, another in Europe, another in China, another in america, who's going predict whose going to die and whose going to live. My take why worry, live and be happy, you can be part of the living or join the doomers who preach about dying and death.
Death will come soon enough no need to go looking for it , it will find you in due time, in the meantime love, enjoy your life, help others in any way you can.Join the living my friends

I have read your threads/posts often Frank Samuel and like many others I agree with what you just wrote. I must say however, "cycles" are here or near that have not been in quite some time. Which leads to... as you would say "for god's sake WAKE UP"

[weareone]

vey interesting, a lot of this material is in the law of one books. My comment would be that this entity talks about the harvest being negative, i wonder what people think will happen to people who are on a positive path?

[Sanat]

Imagine the Scale of Consciousness from 1 (lowest) to 1000 (highest). Everything that exists within the human sphere of existence Vibrates somewhere on that scale.

Let's say the Maximum "Level of Consciousness" that qualifies an individual for a "Negative Harvest" is 40 on the Scale.

The "elite" are doing their very best to get a "negative harvest" and must thus keep themselves below 40.

Equally, the Minimum "Level of Consciousness" that qualifies an individual for a "Positive Harvest" is 330 on the Scale.

This is what many people have come here to achieve.

The range of "luke warm" individuals that will have to get further lessons in "3rd Density" thus spans from 41 to 329 on the Scale.

This is the range where the majority of the people of this Planet still find themselves.

Hope this helps to clarify the terms some more...

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by weareone

My comment would be that this entity talks about the harvest being negative

let's discuss this comment

it is absolutely amasing
how what is truly obvious
is hidden right out in front !!!

and, almost everyone iS miSSing it

love/susan
the eXchanger

[THE eXchanger]

The Hidden Hand says:
PART ONE
"I am double-bound in this duty.
It is required of me by The Law of our Creator
to offer this opportunity to you at this time,
though I am also bound
by the Law of (planetary) Free Will
********************************
PART TWO
and by Family Oaths,
that there is only so much I am able to say."

the eXchanger says:
karmically speaking--
ON PART ONE

there is a monad in play
(jailer/prisoneer)
if the jailer
does NOT provide
the prisoneer, with bait,
that can enable the prisoneer
to break free of the contract
then, the actual contract, has karmic implications
for the jailer

(there's more - i had typed, and, i will have to type it tomorrow)

but, it is interesting to discuss

love/susan
the eXchanger

PS; ON PART TWO

hidden hand, has sworn "blood" oaths
with his/her own blood family / or the inner circle-or round,
that he/she belongs to -- and, breaking them
whether they are right actions/or wrong actions
also has implications too

(more on this tomorrow)

[Steven]

Hidden Hand does lie about his "family" true intention/purpose. There is no such a thing as "Evil exist to help the ascension of 3rd dimension souls". There is no purpose for evil deeds in Creation. The purpose of all souls, including the ones trying to convince us of their greater spirituality, is to express Life itself on its way back to the Creator. No one is responsible for anyone else then him/herself, except Creator is responsible for all.

It is true that we should not hate the haters, kill the killers. But we must understand that they are not here to help us to ascend by bringing "tools" of evil kinds in our hands. It does not help us to ascend, it does just the opposite. Where are the Laws of Creation in his teaching?

Namaste, Steven

[BROOK]

Originally Posted by Steven

Hidden Hand does lie about his "family" true intention/purpose. There is no such a thing as "Evil exist to help the ascension of 3rd dimension souls". There is no purpose for evil deeds in Creation. The purpose of all souls, including the ones trying to convince us of their greater spirituality, is to express Life itself on its way back to the Creator. No one is responsible for anyone else then him/herself, except Creator is responsible for all.

It is true that we should not hate the haters, kill the killers. But we must understand that they are not here to help us to ascend by bringing "tools" of evil kinds in our hands. It does not help us to ascend, it does just the opposite. Where are the Laws of Creation in his teaching?

Namaste, Steven

It's unbelieveable, but how can we create "compasion" without it. Compasion being one of the strongest eneriges we posess, and need to combat "service to self"

btw Steve I'm not saying we need evil, I'm just suggesting it creates a stronger form of compassion.
I could do without Evil rearing it's ugly head

[Steven]

Originally Posted by BROOK

It's unbelievable, but how can we create "compassion" without it. Compassion being one of the strongest energies we possess, and need to combat "service to self"

Thank you for this opportunity Brook. The Creation is well made. Compassion is the sign the love one feels for others manifests when others suffer. But in a world without evil, love also manifest for others but not in compassion form, which include a form of mercy. Compassion is love taken in a situation where the loved is suffering/stopped to evolve. When there is no suffering, love manifest itself without the suffering element.

The ones who have purposefully taken the path defying the Universal Laws of Creation brings an halt to the natural evolving course of the human souls. It is right that it challenges us to be the best we can on the winning side. But it is not the hidden purpose of evil. It does brings opportunities to be better, but mostly educates us to stay locked with them in an ever-ending loop of incarnating always in a low density where evil can not affect the spiritual densities.

We are physically in the 3rd density, but naturally we have a deep connection with the spiritual world in us. A link the "controllers" have purposefully cut eons of time ago. So, "their own intended purpose" is to keep us locked with them in here, but also more importantly, to convince us to cut the natural link we have with the source inside ourselves. Which assure the impossibility to evolve again to higher dimension, closer to the source. But a cut is never totally performed... There is no blade to definitely cut the link Creator has crafted when a given soul was brought to existence.

Namaste, Steven

edit: I just read your "edited". Yes, I did understand your initial thought. And I totally agree with you, it shows how creation is able to change darkness into light. Sincerely, your post gave me an opportunity to get deeper into the topic.

[BROOK]

Thanks for the reply Steve
well worded
Peace
Brook

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Steven

There is no purpose for evil deeds in Creation.

An act is an act. A good act and/or an "evil" act are still acts within creation. It is obvious to me that you can't have a positive path without a negative. It is a simple question of logic. We are the ones who choose STO or STS, and are held responsible karmically for our choices.

Hidden hand and who he represents, together with Ra and all the others are all simply catalyst to shake us up and get us moving along quicker. Why? Because the window of opportunity in this phase of our existence is closing. The harvest is coming, those that tend the fields are doing the best jobs that they can do.

I expect to see more from HH or equivalent next year - and if there is still an internet around to read it, I will read it with interest.

A..

[Sanat]

The famous Zen-Buddhist Patriarch, Bodhidharma, said it like this:

Mortals liberate buddhas and buddhas liberate mortals. This is what’s meant by impartiality. Mortals liberate buddhas because affliction creates awareness. And buddhas liberate mortals because awareness negates affliction. There can’t help but be affliction. And there can’t help but be awareness. If it weren’t for affliction, there would be nothing to create awareness. And if it weren’t for awareness, there would be nothing to negate affliction.

At some point the wide-open Awareness/Heart contracted into the fearbased, "protected" and seemingly separate ego/individual expression of itself to such a degree that finding back to Awareness/Oneness/Love became very hard. When Awareness/Light withdraws it gives away its power to fear/darkness. Thus, it allows "negativity/evil/darkness" to come in and "run the show". This is the state humanity has been in for God knows how long. A fearbased/"protected" state of illusory separation.

"Evil" does not come un-invited, it comes to fill the void of self-responsibility. Everyone on this planet is under the influence of "evil" - of the perception of "separation". Collectivly giving away the power of Awareness/Light/Love has over time created the planet we have today. A house that is never cleaned, and where the garbage is never taken out, is bound to attract rats/parasites/dis-ease. Clean the house good, and take out the garbage and the rats/parasites/dis-ease will be gone by themselves as there is no food for them there any more.

Humanity must have choosen to contract into fear-based, "protected" and thus seemingly separate entities around the time when real free will was introduced. The survival of the fittest/strongest became the norm. It could have choosen otherwise, and the story here would have been very different. Power/Awareness that is collectivly given away must be collectivly reclaimed for any real change to occur. This is what we are seeing today. As we are cleansing our own individual house from all accumulated garbage, the rats/parasites are forced to withdraw more and more. Sooner or later we will realise that there is no separation - that we are all living in the same House called a Uni-verse. Everyone has been living in their own pile of garbage for so long that we have been isolated from each other. When the walls of garbage come down, the illusion of separation will disappear with it.

Everyone in Existence serves the One. Either through STO or through STS (on this planet mostly through a combination of the two). In the end there is no separation. How could it be otherwise?

Love and gratitude for this opportunity to correct past mistakes and grow in Spirit,

Sanat

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Anchor

An act is an act. A good act and/or an "evil" act are still acts within creation. It is obvious to me that you can't have a positive path without a negative. It is a simple question of logic. We are the ones who choose STO or STS, and are held responsible karmically for our choices.

Hidden hand and who he represents, together with Ra and all the others are all simply catalyst to shake us up and get us moving along quicker...

Evil deeds does not represent the negative polarity in creation. Negative and positive polarity or "duality" is possible because Love may only manifest in all it's potential through a lover and a loved. So you need two, in between Love circulates.

Evil is not part of duality, it tries to make us believe it so, but it is only an absence of Love.

Hidden Hand wants to present himself as a good guy disguised in bad guy. The truth is the opposite. We evolve in a highly manipulated mental environment and the purpose of the HH message or Ra message is to keep the searcher of truth on their track.

Evil disguised in an illuminated being is the most subtle form of evil, able to mislead the "awakened". It is part of the intervention in Humanity.

There is no higher spiritual being coming from a close dimension to the source with the mission to do evil deeds on Earth. They are coming from a lower dimension. They would not ascend into 4th density. The Universal Laws will simply logically work on them as well. There is no negative harvest, even if it make sens or have a certain logic in it's concept. Even the word harvest is not proper, because it implies that the harvested are like food, helpless, victim of a greater power.

The truth is that we all deserves God's Love because we are God's Love. And the evil manipulators wants us to stay stuck with them. They want us to forget the link we have with Creator living into us. Because this presence can not be manipulated.

Namaste, Steven

[islandman]

I dont really know enough to critique the validity of everything Hidden Hand said.

The game wouldn't be this good if we knew how it worked. But that message really acted as a catalyst for me and I took nothing but positives from it.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by islandman

The game wouldn't be this good if we knew how it worked. But that message really acted as a catalyst for me and I took nothing but positives from it.

Exactly.

I dont follow HH, Ra or anyone. I am extremely grateful for the efforts they have made and the ideas/information they provide and the opportunity for me to see and even sometimes ask, questions that need answers. Ultimately the only person I follow is myself, its the only person I can trust 100%.

All information that is presented has the elements of a "game" that is the only way it can be done because it mandates discrimination in order to avoid free-will violation at a macro level. It is the only way that these beings can speak the way they do. So, when discorses of this nature are made available to many people, you will always see a charade of some form. With Ra it was the "appurtunances" at Carla's head, with HH it is the mystique of the blood-line and the Q/A format on a clique forum.

You will never get "proof" in such work. Any "proof" you encounter will be on an individual basis only.

All they are trying to do is shake you awake! I don't care who does it, but by God it certainly does need doing, now more than ever!

A..

[Sanat]

I only share what is working for me. At some point I realized something that can be crystallised into this thought/concept:

Every circumstance/situation at any time can be uniquely and consciously interpreted by each individual in such a way as to maximize the spiritual growth of each individual.

I find that this is the essence of Self-Responsability. A person living by that understanding can never be made into a victim of anything/anyone. Is this not true freedom in itself? I find that it is applicable on microlevel as well as macrolevel. That is why I agree when HH and RA talks about "catalyst". Not because they say so, but because it is my own experience that this is so. Most of my juvenile years here was lived in great fear/anguish/depression/shame etc. At some point the above "principle" was understood, and from that point on my growth/evolvement out of it happened very rapidly. Some call it the "Rubber-band-effect". I have also seen this happen in people that I am familiar with.

I guess we came here agreeing to "take in" a portion of darkness and transmute that into Light. Thus contributing to the overall cleansing process of the Mass Consciousness and the Planet. Most people are simply not Aware/conscious of the fact that they are not responsible for what "happens", but rather how they respond to whatever happens. Without Awareness of the presence of choice, each person simply think that their "first reaction/perception" of anything is the only and thus "correct perception". Usually this "first perception/reaction (which is often a very conditioned/biased reaction/perception)" is judgmental in nature. The "wrong" is in the world or in someone else, not in their very own perception. This is the socalled "blindspot" which exist in everyone. We see the splinter in other peoples eyes, and not the log in our own. The world and socalled "others" should serve as a mirror so we can carefully remove our own log. This is how it is designed. Most people sadly fail to realize this. I am not aiming this at anyone here as I think most people are aware of it here. But it is good to be reminded some times also.

Gratitude and Love,

Sanat