Distortions of the truth, (RANT)

[tone3jaguar]

Here is my Rant

When ever there comes along some valuable channeled or intuitive information there is all ways the risk that it may become distorted by the individuals who choose to believe it or follow it. All through out history teachings from various different higher sources have started out as helpful good information for the greater good of humanity. As the numbers of people that follow the information grows there is almost always the risk that they will become exclusive and fanatical resulting in the formation of a new religion.

I just recently experienced some of the first signs of this in regards to the Law of One material that was channeled over 20 years ago. That information is very good and has some neat ideas about how the consciousness of the Universe may be structured. Just like any channeled information I take it with a grain of salt because the medium is always a person. People are always subject to error when channeling because this information must be filtered through the conscious and subconscious minds of the medium before it comes out of their mouth.

The experience that I had was on another forum that was created as part of a the web site of David Wilcock. I am not upset that the forum post that I tried to make was rejected. However, the reasons given for the rejection of the post sounded very much like the opinions of those preaching a new religious dogma.

I attempted to make a post in a thread that had been created by another member of those forums about David's recently released and updated older readings and channelings. There was some stuff that Ra had said through David about there being 3 waves of ascension. Just like most channeled information, it is very symbolic and enigmatic. Therefore it is all open to interpretation.

So I stated my opinion of what Ra was referring to with this three waves of ascension deal. I did not try to say that it was my own divined or intuitive info which is against their forum rules. Instead I clearly states that I was just brainstorming as to what this three waves of ascension might mean.

They kicked the post back to me. The reasons given where, it is not in line with David's teachings and the law of one, It will confuse the forum members because it is not part DW's teachings nor is it directly from the law of one. I protested that this was censorship of a simple idea.

The response back was that if I could not go back into David's Readings, David's Blogs, or the original Law of One material and prove that my idea was in alignment with them directly that it would not be allowed on the devinecosmos.com forums.

I rejected the request that I must justify my ideas in order to post them on their forums and asked to be permanently removed from the forum membership over there. I informed them that their moderation policies where creating a perception of exclusiveness and religious dogma surrounding the Law of One material.

Rant over, sorry for wasting you time

It's hardly wasting out time tone3. I'd heard his forum was strictly moderated insofar as "negativity" was not tolerated in any form, but I had no idea that included anything not directly from DW's "teachings."

That strikes me as very doctrine-based, a kind of "his interpretation is the only interpretation" position.

Hmmmmmm.

[Carmen]

Thats what is so good about this forum tone, people can express themselves freely. Without freedom of thought, there is no freedom. This is the only forum I have ever been on so I cannot judge others, but this one suits me fine.

Cheers

Carmen

Ps Rantings good!!!

[Czymra]

Any dogma is dangerous and eventually useless. That's just what I've come to accept. If the forum doesn't want you to express yourself, I suppose there's nothing left to do but leave them to self-combust.

[Phtha]

Hi Tone, I to have thought a lot on the subject you bring up in your post.

Let me try and create and analogy of this problem.

Lets say there is a text uncovered tomorrow that is said to be the true teachings of some great prophet. The scrolls were well kept in some chest at the bottom of the sea and verified by the official organs of religion and media.
Many people now read this text and are taken away by it, huge congregations of worshipers gather and start to preach these wonderful words. All are in jubilation and can't believe at how these words touch each and everyone of them in a special way.

But then, a few months later it is discovered that these words are not the words of the one whom they were all told, in fact they may have even been written by some no name on welfare.

Foul! Everyone cries, Foul! How dare that man trick us. And they all give up on the texts that only a day ago they so cherished...

Why? Because they are not looking for the truth inside them. They are wanting to learn the truth from outside sources. Sources that they never questioned in their lives.


The truth does not come from the source of texts but from the effect the words and symbols contained therein produce.
And so the truth does not come from a persons mouth, but from the words that that the person is speaking.
Because the truth comes from within, not without.

So to all those people on that forum that you mentioned Tone... I find it funny how they will not believe something, or in this case even be willing to discuss the matter, until it has been verified by a source rather then the words they contain and rather then their own thoughts...

For some reason I'm reminded of a passage I recently read in the essenes gospels"

There is none yet among you that can understand all this of which I speak. He who expounds to you the scriptures speaks to you in a dead tongue of dead men, through his diseased and mortal body.

[avyaktam]

It would be interesting to know if this moderator behavior is endorsed by DW.
A response to your approach would be more valuable than a ban.
In general a discussion should be about ideas, input, opinions, angles, a search for truth etc. and not about personalities.

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by tone3jaguar

I just recently experienced some of the first signs of this in regards to the Law of One material that was channeled over 20 years ago. That information is very good and has some neat ideas about how the consciousness of the Universe may be structured. Just like any channeled information I take it with a grain of salt because the medium is always a person.

I think it's at least as wise to take channeled information with a grain of salt because of the source...not necessarily the medium. IMO everything channeled is coming out of the astral realm, from astral beings...no matter who or what they call themselves. There's always an agenda, and that can range from malevolence, through disinformation, and up into truly valuable higher dimensional teachings. It requires a strong level of discernment of both the human and the entities involved. [/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by tone3jaguar

I informed them that their moderation policies where creating a perception of exclusiveness and religious dogma surrounding the Law of One material.

Well this explains why the comments on his site are so smarmy and saccharine. Nobody is served by limiting the free exchange of ideas. It also does nothing positive towards the emergence of the transmutational paradigm. DW has acquired a lot of interesting information, but it's oxymoronic to act as an authority in the woo-hoo realm he occupies (and of course the same goes for most of the rest of us).

[Luminari]

Originally Posted by Phtha

The truth does not come from the source of texts but from the effect the words and symbols contained therein produce.
And so the truth does not come from a persons mouth, but from the words that that the person is speaking.
Because the truth comes from within, not without.

Exactly, the message is what's important not the messenger or the format.

If it resonates strongly with you, go with it.

Sun toon: "I think it's at least as wise to take channeled information with a grain of salt because of the source..."

I understand your perspective and common sense approach, in general that is a wise position.

Personally I have found far more 'truth' and extremely valuable spiritual concepts and ideas in channeled material (specifically some great ones have been; Ramtha, RA, Reunion With Source/Becoming Gods II - James Gilliland, Path of Empowerment - Barbara Marciniak) then in ALL OTHER LITERARY MATERIAL Ive ever read combined.. Ramtha alone will knock your socks off and blast you into next week if you put your ego and circle of experiences aside and really grasp what is being said.

Many other channeled works Ive read have been not-so-brilliant and more ambiguous but still of value, but my point is (for me) when its good, nothing else even comes close.

[BROOK]

Ramtha was particularly good
Thanks Luminari for turning me on to it...even though it took me a while to figure out how to download it

[Luminari]

Originally Posted by BROOK

Ramtha was particularly good
Thanks Luminari for turning me on to it...even though it took me a while to figure out how to download it

No worries, that was just the tip of the iceberg.. I have 21 gig of different Ramtha audiolectures.

Im not here to start a Ramtha cult though, just giving feedback and some recommendations

Getting back to the thread though.. David Wilcock's higher source does have many pearls of wisdom and proven prophetic acuracy (though in a vague nostradamic makes-sense-after-its-happened way). I REALLY enjoyed the excerpts in the Reincarnation of Edgar Cayce book.

What is the point of their forum though if you can't offer interpretation of the messages and have a discussion about the material?

[recallone]

I feel you, Tone.
The beauty about this trip is that nothing is permanent. There is no ultimate truth. There is no arrival. No completion. The be-all-end-all position on any one particular source paints us into the same box of limitation that organized religion does. Everybody's two cents worth is a transient truth that we need to let go of while in pursuit of our own, greater truth. Every great thing is inside. I applaud you for honoring your truth and recognizing how important your own intuitive guidings are.
Phtha, very nice reply, btw.

love and light, y'all

[tone3jaguar]

Well this explains why the comments on his site are so smarmy and saccharine. Nobody is served by limiting the free exchange of ideas. It also does nothing positive towards the emergence of the transmutational paradigm. DW has acquired a lot of interesting information, but it's oxymoronic to act as an authority in the woo-hoo realm he occupies (and of course the same goes for most of the rest of us).

I do not want this to turn into a bash David Wilcock or the accuracy of his channelings. The entity that he channels "Ra" is actually David's higher self. The information that David churns out is very useful info, and his efforts towards uncovering the hidden branch of physics called torsian field physics. I would never want to try to downplay that. I will still continue to study the law of one material and read David's blogs. The point of this thread is to point out what is happening on his forums as a result of the rules structure over there.

think it's at least as wise to take channeled information with a grain of salt because of the source...not necessarily the medium. IMO everything channeled is coming out of the astral realm, from astral beings...no matter who or what they call themselves. There's always an agenda, and that can range from malevolence, through disinformation, and up into truly valuable higher dimensional teachings. It requires a strong level of discernment of both the human and the entities involved.

Most channels are getting stuff out of 3d astral. However, the more advanced channel that knows how to protect against negative influence can get mostly clear information out of the higher dimensions. I would not consider channeling any source that was lower than 7th density because of the risk that they might be negatively polarized.

Ramtha was particularly good
Thanks Luminari for turning me on to it...even though it took me a while to figure out how to download it

Take this like a grain of salt because this is my channeled info, not traditional channeling instead what I come up with using the dowsing pendulum. As far as I can tell, this Ramtha entity is a negative ET. On a scale of -20 to +20 Ramtha dowses up a -5 entity from negative 5th density. -5 is not that bad, they are usually trickster entities. They will give you alot of truth with just enough disinfo mixed to keep you from realizing the total truth.

When I see that woman channeling Ramtha, I see alot of arrogance and judgmental behavior coming from Ramtha. This is not typical of a fully ascended being.

[tone3jaguar]

I just got the response back from the mods over at devinecosmos. They say that my conclusions are all self centered because they wont let me promote my own work on their forums. The told me to go back and read all of the forum rules which read like a legal document. I told them no thanks, just remove me from the membership.

[Czymra]

Originally Posted by tone3jaguar

I just got the response back from the mods over at devinecosmos. They say that my conclusions are all self centered because they wont let me promote my own work on their forums. The told me to go back and read all of the forum rules which read like a legal document. I told them no thanks, just remove me from the membership.

Strange twisting of words there but I guess one should really read such rules in detail before even joining a forum.... no I never read Avalon's either.
It's absurd to even think that there is a forum that is set up only to circulate a single thought pattern.

[Jack]

David Wilcock could very well, easily turn what hes got goiing on into a cult. Or, he could be a well to do lad just looking to help other people, but that doesnt mean he hasnt made a crucial mistake. And that mistake is openly basing most of his study on the law of one, and his own synopsis of it. He could also believe in this so passionatly that he doesnt account for other peoples waryness when their approached with something like this. Discernments fairly popular these days especially with the audience he's got.

But the fact of the matter is this. Its not wise to put all your money on the one horse. Explore all the myths and mysteries and the truth will find you. And im pretty sure this is why david is so passionate, because he's frustrated and wants everyone to hurry their assses up and start going with the flow of consciousness evolution instead of fighting it and wearing ourselves out in the process.

Cult leader.. i dont think so.

Frustrated young man that wants the world to wake the f k up, that makes more sense.

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by tone3jaguar

I do not want this to turn into a bash David Wilcock or the accuracy of his channelings. The entity that he channels "Ra" is actually David's higher self. The information that David churns out is very useful info, and his efforts towards uncovering the hidden branch of physics called torsian field physics. I would never want to try to downplay that. I will still continue to study the law of one material and read David's blogs. The point of this thread is to point out what is happening on his forums as a result of the rules structure over there.

Well I wasn't "bashing" him. It was statement of fact. The comments, on his blog anyway, are mostly about how wonderful he is, and how moved the writers are by what he has to say. I had a feeling they were censored, because they are way to positive and unquestioning.

Maybe he's been somewhat hijacked by volunteers who worship his every word, but I suspect he's quite aware of what's going on. It goes along with the rest of his lack of humility, which I think adds nothing but raised eyebrows to his message. From my own PoV, if I thought I was Edgar Cayce or Ra, I wouldn't have the nerve to publicly paint myself with that brush, but he apparently feels that it works for him. Whatever...it's his trip.

That being said, I still like listening to him, and I do agree that his research...or more exactly the research that he's studying and passing along, has value. He also has great connections to other researchers, and only good can come out of a meeting of minds at that level.

Originally Posted by tone3jaguar

Most channels are getting stuff out of 3d astral. However, the more advanced channel that knows how to protect against negative influence can get mostly clear information out of the higher dimensions. I would not consider channeling any source that was lower than 7th density because of the risk that they might be negatively polarized.

I've read some of your posts here, and really don't understand a lot of what you write...such as "3d astral", but I am highly suspect of the dimensional numbering system you're using, and will stand by my statement that virtually all of the channeled sources are purely astral, including the ET sources. It's a much larger domain that it's given credit for. What you're calling 7th density, I'm calling high astral. To describe ourselves beyond the astral...to talk about what it's like in 8th density, is to be far beyond the reach of language. It's simply not translatable into English.

[tone3jaguar]

I've read some of your posts here, and really don't understand a lot of what you write...such as "3d astral", but I am highly suspect of the dimensional numbering system you're using, and will stand by my statement that virtually all of the channeled sources are purely astral, including the ET sources. It's a much larger domain that it's given credit for. What you're calling 7th density, I'm calling high astral. To describe ourselves beyond the astral...to talk about what it's like in 8th density, is to be far beyond the reach of language. It's simply not translatable into English.

That is cool, we all have our own paradigms about the other side. The great thing is that none of us is right and none of us are wrong either. Each person decides for them selves what is important for them to learn about. If the details about the structure of dimensions in this universe do not seem important or relevant, then I would not focus on them either. It would be more important for you to focus on things that you are naturally attracted to and excited about.

Because of the path that I chose before I came into this incarnation, it is nessesary for me to personally learn as much as possible about the energetic structure of the universe and do my best to try to relay that information to people. My current paradigm which is always evolving and expanding is that there are 8 levels of reality in this universe.

From our perspective in this reality it is impossible to see what they are really all about. Our versions and descriptions of these places will always be limited to the rational thought processes we are mostly held to because of the construct of our reality. For the average person who is just simply trying to find a place of happiness and security in life the information does not have much value.

However, for an individual like myself that wishes to communicate with higher forms of consciousness in order to bring new helpful information into this world it is imperative that I understand how to make sure my info is not being tainted by negative consciousness. Part of this understanding comes in the form of being able to determine what level of ascension and polarity the entity(s) I am working with are. If I do not do this I could end up being one of these intuitives that suddenly goes off of the deep end talking about how nuclear and biological genocide are right around the corner. That is what happens if you do intuitive work and you assume that you wont be taken advantage of. It is not for everyone.

His forum is HIS.. w/his rules...
you just were reminded of that.
But I've behaved as you have, I was afronted and was hurt that I was misunderstood...you know that feeling of wanting to make right was is perceived as wrongly misunderstood? I used to partake in a forum yrs ago, called from Sex to Superconsciousness, Achary S forum... the rules were explicity stated "NO we do not believe that Jesus ever existed as it is depicted and practiced in the world's religions"... etc...
well, you can imagine the moderators job there!!! lolol.... (please no comment from others about her or that former site [which has changed its name]) < it's just an example.

and I LOVE rants, really do and it's good to do so... glad you felt like ripping it here!!!!!!! I relate! Great Thread TITLE... if others would just remember that's the title)...it's not like we need more input right???

good evening!

(today 4-8-09 I edited a mistake I made above, about the premise of that former forum, changed from 'god' to 'jesus')... sorry 'bout that.

[Czymra]

I find it reassuring that many of you do mention the arrogance and the 'almost cult' feel about this. I have had the same notions and am staying well clear of David Wilcock for those reasons.
To me this is lessons how NOT to be a 'leader'.... or rather another pointer toward giving up completely on leading at all.

Jack, well noted on the frustration, I think that is in fact the real reason for his behaviour.

[Luminari]

Originally Posted by tone3jaguar

As far as I can tell, this Ramtha entity is a negative ET. On a scale of -20 to +20 Ramtha dowses up a -5 entity from negative 5th density. -5 is not that bad, they are usually trickster entities. They will give you alot of truth with just enough disinfo mixed to keep you from realizing the total truth.

When I see that woman channeling Ramtha, I see alot of arrogance and judgmental behavior coming from Ramtha. This is not typical of a fully ascended being.

Ahem excuse me sir, you are not entitled to have an opinion.

Come back when youve actually studied some of the teachings.

"I see alot of arrogance and judgmental behaviour coming from Ramtha"

-that sounds more like what we are seeing from YOU lately.

Ramtha invented the word channeling. Dowse that.

Originally Posted by Czymra

I find it reassuring that many of you do mention the arrogance and the 'almost cult' feel about this. I have had the same notions and am staying well clear of David Wilcock
T

Well you will be missing all of the wisdom and love from the cutting edge of consciousness research. If you aren't supporting David's work AT ALL then you have some dark agenda, or ego issues.

Even Tone3Zeus recognises the good research and work Mr Wilcock is doing on behalf of us all.



Im disappointed guys.. but not surprised.
This thread is giving me the creeps, im going to sit in the sunshine for a while.
I wish you all the best in your research. We may have our petty disputes over ideology but important to remember "we are all one".
This is a game - throw me a curve ball, I'll knock it out of the park.

[Phtha]

Originally Posted by Luminari

Well you will be missing all of the wisdom and love from the cutting edge of consciousness research. If you aren't supporting David's work AT ALL then you have some dark agenda, or ego issues.

Whatever David Wilcock is he is most certainly NOT the cutting edge of consciousness research. Anything he has tought relating to consciousness can be found in ancient sources like the vedas.

Maybe you meant tying mainstream science into consciousness? I'd reluctantly give him the credit of cutting edge in this case.
Myself, I have yet to hear anything from him that is not found elsewhere.

[sun-toon´]

Originally Posted by tone3jaguar

That is cool, we all have our own paradigms about the other side. The great thing is that none of us is right and none of us are wrong either. Each person decides for them selves what is important for them to learn about. If the details about the structure of dimensions in this universe do not seem important or relevant, then I would not focus on them either. It would be more important for you to focus on things that you are naturally attracted to and excited about.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I am very interested in dimensional structure, I just don't see it the same way you do. But as you say, it's true that we all have our own paradigms and can only intuit the way we do, which goes back to my comment about the oxymoronic nature of being an authority in the realms of woo-hoo. I don't see any way to prove any of this stuff, and I'll concede that it's possible that your view is correct and mine is not. If I had to put money on it though, it would be that neither of us has clarity, but we're doing our best under the circumstances.

Originally Posted by tone3jaguar

However, for an individual like myself that wishes to communicate with higher forms of consciousness in order to bring new helpful information into this world it is imperative that I understand how to make sure my info is not being tainted by negative consciousness. Part of this understanding comes in the form of being able to determine what level of ascension and polarity the entity(s) I am working with are.

I use different means of determining the the level and intent of a channeled entity, but not dowsing or the polarity thing you mention. I find that much information that had a positive feel in the past, now has proven itself to be some positive information mixed with disinformation...the case being that I've expanded and the information was not true enough to come along. I assume this process will continue, and that what's cutting edge right now will also prove itself to be various packets of truth mixed with misleading info.

Originally Posted by Luminari

Well you will be missing all of the wisdom and love from the cutting edge of consciousness research. If you aren't supporting David's work AT ALL then you have some dark agenda, or ego issues.

I don't think czymra means that he's tuned out to love and wisdom or consciousness research, only that he doesn't trust DW to provide him with the roadmap. We all have holes that need filled, and we resonate with what brings us closer to equilibrium.
And Luminari...everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I'm curious as to why this discussion would give you the creeps. It seems to me that it's a pretty objective exchange of opinions about an increasingly influential individual. It might be good for Wilcock to stop by and read it.

EpiphaMe: It is DW's forum and he can act as overlordly as he wants, but in IMO, the stifling of all opinion that's not exactly like his own shows a different energetic polarity than he purports to be projecting though his investigative work. One wouldn't expect to find this the fine print of his forum rules.

It's good that tone3jaguar posted this here. We need as much transparency as possible around the information we receive. The days of spiritual leaders not walking the walk they talk is over. Humans have been dealing with that for thousands of years, and even though it's high time we finally learn to become our own saviors, there will always be people out front. It's not too much to demand that they be who they say they are.

[Luminari]

Originally Posted by sun-toon

I don't think czymra means that he's tuned out to love and wisdom or consciousness research, only that he doesn't trust DW to provide him with the roadmap. We all have holes that need filled, and we resonate with what brings us closer to equilibrium.
And Luminari...everyone is entitled to an opinion.

DW is so positive and likable.. not to mention intelligent, apart from the crucial ascension point (which remains to be seen), I struggle to understand how any who is a member in a place such as this could have a negative super-sceptical view towards him. But the free will to feel that way is your choice. It will not get you anywhere. Good luck to you if you think it will.

"Everyone is entitled to an opinion" - they most certainly ARE NOT entitled to pass judgment about something or someone they know NOTHING about. That is just rude and offensive. You have the 'free will' to say such a silly remark but it will be at the sacrifice of your own credibility and others respect towards you.

Originally Posted by Phtha

Maybe you meant tying mainstream science into consciousness? I'd reluctantly give him the credit of cutting edge in this case.

Ok that is part of what I was getting at. Facilitating the synthesis of these ideas to a wider audience. Not exclusively of course but certainly in a coherent and enlightening way.
No I am not a cheerleader for DW's fanclub, but give the guy some credit.

Yes there are MANY others doing a similar thing, I think they are all doing the best they can. All a.s.s.h.o.l.e.s who think they can do a better job.. LETS SEE IT...PUNK.

Its easy to be an internet smart ass and be negative about everything. and THAT Sun-Toon is what was giving me the creeps if it wasn't completely obvious. You are one of those guys that has to have the last word aren't you? I look forward to the next exciting instalment of your witty banter.

L

[THE eXchanger]

WE ARE ALL IN THIS -- together

and, we need to cross promote each others work

biggest trouble is, there isn't a lot of that going on !!!

everyone is a avatar/avator in their own right

everyone has the onboard equipment - to do, to be,
and, yet, few realise,
this time of the lone wolf,
it truly is over !!!

there are solutions-you just need to mine for them

ironically, they are all inside of you !!!
and, can be made to expand

only YOU, can save yourself from YOU

oft times, we can be our own worst enenmy

perhaps, it is time, to all be, the best eXpressions, we can be !!!

[Humble Janitor]

Originally Posted by Czymra

I find it reassuring that many of you do mention the arrogance and the 'almost cult' feel about this. I have had the same notions and am staying well clear of David Wilcock for those reasons.
To me this is lessons how NOT to be a 'leader'.... or rather another pointer toward giving up completely on leading at all.

Jack, well noted on the frustration, I think that is in fact the real reason for his behaviour.

I don't get that feeling from David and I don't understand why something that happened on another forum is being discussed here. It could be resolved if you could contact David directly.

Regardless, we need to move away from gossiping and painting a negative picture of someone, since it's quite possible that David himself does not have time to keep an eye on his forums. From what he says, I do not think he's the kind of person who would openly tolerate such behavior from a moderator.

We are supposed to be moving into a new paradigm, one where we do not judge others based on superficial things, such as an internet forum, for example. It's hard to do but I have made friends with people here that I originally disagreed with. I had to drop my predisposition to arguing with anyone that countered my views on any given subject.