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Old 09-20-2008, 02:02 PM   #126
King Lear
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon



Stand up and be counted...

Last edited by King Lear; 09-20-2008 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:17 PM   #127
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Is violence really the way?

What's with the guns?
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:22 PM   #128
King Lear
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

They're filled with "Love"!
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:58 PM   #129
seeing clearly
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon



Just my view:

but in many people there is a pronounced
suffering savior archetype.
These will stand out in front of tanks and raise a hand to
tyranny. Their contract before reincarnation here may well
be to be a suffering savior.

He cannot do it alone.

He needs people to keep him before the public eye or
his sacrifice will go in vain

If a mass support is kept going he will become martyr material
and TPTB will not disappear him . Tyranny does not want martyrs!
They can ignite rev ol ushun!

To really help him AND OURSELVES, keep his name and work circulating
across web. If not , and he becomes innocuous, it is easy to lose him
in the massive system of misnamed justice.

Send him kind words, keep his name on every forum, send emails ,
( eyes read them ) and generally let tyranny KNOW we will
follow him to his freedom.

This way he stands a chance of getting out before he rots!

This is how Ernst Zundel was saved from twenty years or more.

He was kept in fornt of the public moment by moment, day by day
from the day he was illegally arrested and kept incognito for
two weeks in a Tenessee sheriffs jail W/O any charges !

An international cadre of supporters screamed across the web
and even the insane courts of siun Germany would decide to stick
to the law and give him what that law stated, five years but no
time off for two years he sat in soiltary in Canada UNCHARGED
for ANY crime.
( he was eventually charged with a thought crime, denial of a hoax is
a thought crime in Germany and many other nations and Liberman and
his cohorts are trying to pass same law here in America ! )

This even tho so many kept his name in the faces of TPTB
He became an International HERO and martyr!

This is NOT what tyranny wanted to happen.

if we stand tall for Gary he will survive and be an ICON
for all of us who want to get free of tyranny.

He is a rev ol ush nerie of the first order !

re vol ushuns are ignited by FIREBRANDS who most often die
in that process and become LEGENDS

It is these very seemingly small events that re ignite the fighting
Spirit in we older persons and LIGHT IT IN THE YOUNGER ONES!

Creating rev ol ushun takes days, weeks, years ,to gather up enough
Spirit to stand up to the OGRE with a thousand weapons.


when that Spirit reaches its CRUX one sufferig savior will stand up
and be the catalyst that fires that shot to be heard and welcomed
round the world and across the web.

It MAY be GARY, it MAY be one who comes after, but as the
cycle ripens one will be.


TRUST NATURE, one will BE.


cycles overlapping cycles. and so it is...



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Old 09-20-2008, 03:19 PM   #130
seeing clearly
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon



DO NOT EVEN THINK OF CLOSING THIS THREAD

More people will come in and read of Garys problems
and how to help him.

If any cannot see his problem is ALL OF OUR problem
u r not seeing the core and tendril ends as all of the
same octopus, tyranny

worlds crises need exposure by such as GARY.

we cannot seperate every crisis and focus our attentions on
only the ones we feel threatend by

they are all cut from ONE cloth and must be seen as usable to
show people just who/were TYRANNY is

his actions are inspiring many young people who get bored with
some of the older ones ( me included) who post OTT
intellectual and DOOM/ crisis stuff.


......................

free Gary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz_GtLJyUTo

we are already using anti-ravity ( OOPS !)

..............

HOMIES on the job:

Project Camelot interviews Gary McKinnon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNsa...eature=related


.....


Keep GARY in front of the public !



`
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Old 09-20-2008, 03:26 PM   #131
seeing clearly
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by murnut View Post
Is violence really the way?

What's with the guns?

YES

the only way to precipate change is violence

but it must be prepared, laid out, planned,
right down to the most infinite details

and then the violence will only be quick and fierce
and a BLOODLESS coup is accomplished.

If one faction doesnt do it another will when
the ruling body is toppling and rotten.

several entities are right now plotting OT
of American nation.

study history !



`


,
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:24 AM   #132
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Then you trade the current PtB for new PtB that are no better.

So the point would be what exactly?
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:31 AM   #133
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by murnut View Post
Just curious.

Did this guy do anything wrong in the eyes of Hacking supporters?
Proxy server trail leads FBI to Palin email hacker....

So...this guy was looking for dirt on Palin.
Since she is an evil Republican, this is okay....right?
What if it was Barrack who was hacked?
What if it was you?
What if it was Project Camelot?
Many will say that Project camelot was hacked many times.
This could be true.
So do we really want to validate this, by saying that since the PtB did it first, we are okay it retaliating?
Do we fight evil with evil?

Interesting case...

Do you think David Kernell, the son of Democratic Tennessee representative Mike Kernell,
will get 70 years in gail
for what you suggest is 'looking for dirt on an evil Republican'?

Do you see Gary's escapade as 'looking for dirt on an evil PTB'?

Is looking into the private life of a public servant, the same, as looking for
suppressed truth - the actions of those who rule without a mandate?

Does it matter if the door was open?
Does it matter if you just look around?
Does it matter if you steal the information (property) that you find?
Does it matter if you alter the information (property) in it's original location?
Does it matter if you damage the information (property)? or to what extent?
Does it matter who’s door it was? or what the information was?
Does it matter who you are? and who your father is?

What would be a proportionate punishment?

Last edited by anonypony; 09-21-2008 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 09-21-2008, 12:31 PM   #134
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

I' ll answer your questions....just as soon as you answer mine

Fair enough?
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:32 PM   #135
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by murnut View Post
I' ll answer your questions....just as soon as you answer mine
Fair enough?


I did not direct the questions at you and to be fair I don't recall you ever answering any of mine in the past.

But since you asked I will state this:

I think it is stupid to do anything, which involves breaking the law!
There are always creative ways to get to the truth without breaking the law!

However in the event that someone has been guided or misguided to do so,
and they have admitted to it (or partially have)
and have publicly admitted that what they have done was wrong,
I would like to see them judged PROPORTIONATELY AND FAIRLY!

I wish someone will judicially review the UK government in the high court for their decision to engage in a non reciprocal extradition treaty and especially their agreement to wave off any need for EVIDENCE before shipping their citizens off to a country that practice torture, trauma based mind control, radiation experiments... Shell I go on?
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:40 PM   #136
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Oh....I thought since you quoted me, you were responding.

I always try to answer questions posed to me.

I don't know enough about extradition law, in the UK.

It would seem that since he has had 3 hearings on the matter, and lost them, I see no violations of his rights.

I will quote your other post and respond
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:48 PM   #137
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonypony View Post
Interesting case...

Do you think David Kernell, the son of Democratic Tennessee representative Mike Kernell,
will get 70 years in gail
for what you suggest is 'looking for dirt on an evil Republican'?

Do you see Gary's escapade as 'looking for dirt on an evil PTB'?

Is looking into the private life of a public servant, the same, as looking for
suppressed truth - the actions of those who rule without a mandate?

Does it matter if the door was open?
Does it matter if you just look around?
Does it matter if you steal the information (property) that you find?
Does it matter if you alter the information (property) in it's original location?
Does it matter if you damage the information (property)? or to what extent?
Does it matter who’s door it was? or what the information was?
Does it matter who you are? and who your father is?

What would be a proportionate punishment?
Do you think David Kernell, the son of Democratic Tennessee representative Mike Kernell,
will get 70 years in gail
for what you suggest is 'looking for dirt on an evil Republican'?


No, and neither will Gary


Do you see Gary's escapade as 'looking for dirt on an evil PTB'?

No, I believe he was doing what he said he was doing

Is looking into the private life of a public servant, the same, as looking for
suppressed truth - the actions of those who rule without a mandate?


Breaking into someones private email account is wrong.

Does it matter if the door was open?


No

Does it matter if you just look around?


No

Does it matter if you steal the information (property) that you find?

No, but penalty should be more severe

Does it matter if you alter the information (property) in it's original location?

No but penalty should increase


Does it matter if you damage the information (property)? or to what extent?


Increased penalty

Does it matter who’s door it was? or what the information was?
Does it matter who you are? and who your father is?


No

What would be a proportionate punishment?

That is not for me to decide
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:53 PM   #138
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonypony View Post

before shipping their citizens off to a country that practice torture, trauma based mind control, radiation experiments... Shell I go on?
What's your point?

You really think that the Brits are innocent of these as well?

Do you really believe that this fate awaits Gary?
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Old 09-21-2008, 03:59 PM   #139
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by murnut View Post
Then you trade the current PtB for new PtB that are no better.

So the point would be what exactly?
***********




*************************

to get in the act and try to create a better social construct

and you suggest what...
to sit back and do nothing?

or go to a neutral location and criticize
all who get involved??

IF we do not take a stand for something

we will be forced to live in the stand of
views we find abhorrent !

not to get into SOME activity to make life
better is to invite stagnation/death.

CREATE change
PLAN it to be better
and it will get better

not all at once, but noticeably so.

keep practicing until it gets waaaay better

and then,

keep practicing.


NO LIMITS.




.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:08 PM   #140
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

seeing clearly,

I agree with your post.

I am just suggesting that breaking the law, specifically hacking, is not the way to accomplish what we seek.

Once we decide, what laws are right and wrong as it relates our own particualr views, it is a slippery slope that can only escalate.

We have so little credibility already.


Oh.....and violence is not the way.
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:23 PM   #141
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

is it just me or????
Gary have try`d to unveil a crime by the black ops parties with another crime by hacking, i got a problem with that, if these forces are to be disposed it should be done via whistle blowers and so forth, and not by sinking down to their level and do crime to expose crime.
i think Gary is a person that are taking to much heat for this then he should, but a crime is a crime anyways....

criminal behavior is for lo life`s and not for serious investigators...
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:53 PM   #142
seeing clearly
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by murnut View Post
seeing clearly,

I agree with your post.

I am just suggesting that breaking the law, specifically hacking, is not the way to accomplish what we seek.

Once we decide, what laws are right and wrong as it relates our own particualr views, it is a slippery slope that can only escalate.

We have so little credibility already.


Oh.....and violence is not the way.
***************************



If a tyranny has set up laws that make a playing field with trap doors we can stay on that playing field in anxious attempts to avoid the inevitable trap door to our own demise or use " ANY MEANS NECSSARY "
to create change.

If animals are locked in cages you want to FREE them even if you get caught and go to jail.

since all humans are in one huge invisible cage we must use what ever actions we can to get free, and we do have more than ONE life to give up to get all humanity FREE !


or we bow to the current rulership

As a female I cannot do that anymore.......!

Unjust laws not made with the consent of the people are to be walked
over to get to the chamber where we again make laws for US and not an elite!


Uranus planet of revo lush un is powerful in my chart , cantcha feel it !?


I am not trying to make anyone a rev ol ushun erie here as I wish to keep respectful all round but ...


OOOPS..

BS ! YES I AM!

come stand in the line of resistance!

just look at apppeasment and where it gets you.

I can tell you stories about the justice system and keeping with
in the laws all day , and you will never sleep good again.

will you stand on laws made to tighten the yoke around your neck??

or start acting now and to perdition with laws made to keep us
bound to a Master not of our own choosing.

we call for a REAL leader,

one WE choose !

not efffete elites who live on the beaches of Baku and eat
the rarest Beluga and keep hareems of women and children
stolen from Western cities for slavery to perverted desires.

and I know many here know what I am speaking of !

If people could really stand together it would never need to become
violent...

but as people will NOT stand together it takes a handful of very dedicated Folks to make as bloodless rev ol ushun as possible as
is done often in history and is bloodlesscoup.

We are fast approaching that level of BOIL and frogs are trying to jump out
of it.
Now there is no cool place to jump to so the young Folks will simply go wilding and be needlessly killed in the streets.

Wiser heads must make the great flip called political coup
or we will have many years of CIVIL WAR in American again.


Cycles do go as cycles do go.

s
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Old 09-21-2008, 04:57 PM   #143
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Well then...we do disagree.

What you suggest just puts us in a new cage.
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:18 PM   #144
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Do you think David Kernell, the son of Democratic Tennessee representative Mike Kernell, will get 70 years in jail for what you suggest is 'looking for dirt on an evil Republican'?

No, and neither will Gary
I wonder how you can say this with such confidence? Do you have inside information?
It is not what the persecutors PROMISSED Gary - that is for sure!
Otherwise why would they make such a concerted effort to eliminate the evidence?
Saying 'neither will Gary', is also saying a UK QC (queens Counsel) was LYING to the house of Lords in his evidence of what was PROMISSED to Gary?

Quote:
No, I believe he was doing what he said he was doing
Does that include Gary's many statements that he never did any damage?
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Old 09-21-2008, 05:46 PM   #145
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Because no hacker has even gotten anything beyond 10 years....99% are under 5 years.

How would Gary know if he caused damage or not?

What about the damage you are said to have caused?

McKinnon: What they call damage is really just them realizing that they have been accessed without authorization. Then they say things like I deleted 300 users, deleted systems files and such. That was one instance when I did a batch file to clean up all my stuff--I think once and only once, though perhaps I ran it on the root drive of the "c:" drive. But it certainly wasn't every machine I was on and, if you believe them, they talk about 94 networks being damaged.

http://news.cnet.com/Gary-McKinnon-S...3-5786782.html
***************************************

McKinnon unearthed unprotected computer systems operated by the US army, the navy, the Pentagon and Nasa. On every system he hacked, he left messages. 'It was frightening because they had little or no security,' he said. 'I was always leaving messages on the desktop saying, "your security is really crap".'

One message has come back to haunt him. 'I said US foreign policy was akin to government-sponsored terrorism and I believed 9/11 was an inside job. It was a political diatribe,' he admitted.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...lcrime.hacking
************************************************** *

Next
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Old 09-21-2008, 08:38 PM   #146
seeing clearly
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by murnut View Post
Well then...we do disagree.

What you suggest just puts us in a new cage.
*******************************




finally found a quote that was sticking in back of my mind

I was looking for Jefferson as he said something similar
but this will do:



On the Duty to Rebel

"If, by the instrument of governmental power,
a people is being led toward its destruction,
then rebellion is not only the right of every
member of such a people—it is his duty."

**********************************************



and it is time now for all who still resist that yoke to do whatever
is POSSIBLE to do our duty. If we can only educate ourselves and
others,

so be it...........

if we are able to do more active participation it is right to
do so and hacking is a revolutionary act.


,
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:38 PM   #147
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Default Back to Zorgon's earlier post...

Back to Zorgon's earlier post...
I gave the following somethought

Quote:
Look... the internet WE use was designed by DARPA and then given to the public because they had something BETTER... there is NO WAY to access the Secret stuff from the regular internet... ONLY if some idiot took some work 'home' with him and stored it on a PC at work would you find anything... and you can bet THAT person is in Gitmo And that would be an internal matter... you would NEVER see it on the news...

The OTHER nets are...

NIPRNET... for below top secret but sensitive and confidential traffic
SIPRNET... for secret
We are being told by the prosecution where they claim he has been, which includes Nasa, the Army and the Navy among others. I assume some within those, are using the internet or using the internet as well as the other secure networks. Maybe both from the same machines. Which would explain how Gary might have hopped from one network to another and eventually stumbled on what he claims to have seen.

Here is someone else deliberating this and other issues


http://ufo-evidence.com/

Gary McKinnon Loses European Appeal

No big surprise that Gary McKinnon has lost his appeal to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which has refused to hear the appeal.

Articles covering this have McKinnon listed as a, “Computer Expert” which is a term he vehemently rejects, describing himself more as a stoner come truth-seeker.

Surely this description is more damaging to the public perception of the US military and NASA whom have apparently allowed a stoner with a Perl script access to their most frequently denied secret, i.e. prior knowledge to/and first hand experience of the UFO/ETH phenomenon.

Perhaps the UFO was an ‘elaboration’ by McKinnon?

Personally I struggle to see the rationale involved if that was the case as surely the last thing Gary needs is people (often on) the fringe of the UFO community lobbying for his freedom. All of which makes it quite a strange case in itself, add to that the refusal of the US to allow Gary to be tried in the UK (which let’s face it for all intents & purposes was where the crime was committed) and I can’t help but wonder why the US haven’t swept this under the carpet rather than allow it to drag out and turn into the media circus that it is inevitably becoming.

Surely regardless of what punishment the US judge deems fit to bestow it can only be unwanted publicity further highlighting the weakness of the computer systems and the amateurish personnel charged with defending some of the countries most delicate secrets (UFO/ETH related or not).

I believe there is a little more going on than is immediately apparent but I’m hesitant to state my opinion at this juncture other than to reiterate my puzzlement at how the US is allowing itself to be publicly perceived as little more than petty bureaucrats intent on proving a point. And in doing so is instilling/reinforcing distrust in an already apprehensive public regarding their general modus operandi as it relates to handling secret information, and it’s an MO that ultimately exposes their massive negligence and incompetence as it directly relates to locking even the simplest ‘backdoor’ into their highly sensitive network.
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:39 PM   #148
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Been watching this develop and good arguments that have ensued.

To the "he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"
I am dissapointed.
Surely moraly he does not deserve the years of torment for breaking ******** laws that aply to virtual crime- it is not real.
He could have mugged a pensioner on pension day and got less grief.
If the system is as corrupt as it seems why should a citizen be squeaky clean and obey?surely exposing the corruption is a higher purpose.

Its a different set of rules for the rulers -they just do what they want.

Wonder if the extradition receipts come back at $700 billion?

The UK gov handed over Gary when they know the States is being run by crooks/war mongers/terrorists and blasphemers.What does that say?
"God bless America?" -God help us from America/n law/lawyers.

To all the posts on Garys side "tob job"
Poor Garys' mum ,keep going.
The idea for the thread was to get a little bit of empathy for Gary.
I liked the way he came across in the interviews.
To put him in jail is a crime in it's self ,is he a danger ?
is it worth the expense?
NO send him home to his family .
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:18 AM   #149
seeing clearly
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaundelear View Post
Been watching this develop and good arguments that have ensued.

To the "he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"
I am dissapointed.
Surely moraly he does not deserve the years of torment for breaking ******** laws that aply to virtual crime- it is not real.
He could have mugged a pensioner on pension day and got less grief.
If the system is as corrupt as it seems why should a citizen be squeaky clean and obey?surely exposing the corruption is a higher purpose.

Its a different set of rules for the rulers -they just do what they want.

Wonder if the extradition receipts come back at $700 billion?

The UK gov handed over Gary when they know the States is being run by crooks/war mongers/terrorists and blasphemers.What does that say?
"God bless America?" -God help us from America/n law/lawyers.

To all the posts on Garys side "tob job"
Poor Garys' mum ,keep going.
The idea for the thread was to get a little bit of empathy for Gary.
I liked the way he came across in the interviews.
To put him in jail is a crime in it's self ,is he a danger ?
is it worth the expense?
NO send him home to his family .

*********************************************

a very clear view and well stated !





.
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Old 09-22-2008, 01:26 AM   #150
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaundelear View Post
Been watching this develop and good arguments that have ensued.

To the "he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"
I am dissapointed.
Surely moraly he does not deserve the years of torment for breaking ******** laws that aply to virtual crime- it is not real.
He could have mugged a pensioner on pension day and got less grief.
If the system is as corrupt as it seems why should a citizen be squeaky clean and obey?surely exposing the corruption is a higher purpose.

Its a different set of rules for the rulers -they just do what they want.

Wonder if the extradition receipts come back at $700 billion?

The UK gov handed over Gary when they know the States is being run by crooks/war mongers/terrorists and blasphemers.What does that say?
"God bless America?" -God help us from America/n law/lawyers.

To all the posts on Garys side "tob job"
Poor Garys' mum ,keep going.
The idea for the thread was to get a little bit of empathy for Gary.
I liked the way he came across in the interviews.
To put him in jail is a crime in it's self ,is he a danger ?
is it worth the expense?
NO send him home to his family .

Hey yeah...great post....maybe we should all stop paying our mortgages, since it only supports the evil PtB.

Hacking is not a crime, just as long as it is for ufo's.....or whatever we can make up.

Good luck UFO vigilantes!

No wonder we are considered the fringe, and are never taken seriously.

I am sorry for Gary and his family....6mos in jail would have been horrible.

Gary has one person to blame, himself.
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