What was Jesus then?

[Jonah]

Had a revealing discussion with a Christian. They believe so strongly that you can only be "saved" if you believe in Christ. They also believe that there will be nothing left once were all "judged". And that a new earth will be created.

If Christ did exist, and it seems as though he did, then just what was he?

This is not a religion bashing thread, so please do not be ignorant.

[Richard T]

He was an initiate, a descending master, who had an occult task beyond his public life.

He had to bridge matter with the ether through the astral plane to prepare for the reopening of the universal circuits, therefore paving the way for man to re-connect with reality.

Believing or not is irrelevant.

People who believe that because they believe they are a done deal, well, its part of their experience.

This universal bridge is now established and it creates great turmoil in the world of the dead, in the astral plane. They fear to lose control.

And this will become more and more obvious as mental illness becomes more and more common. It also brings about a quickening of events to enforce death over consciousness.

Now, via this bridge, the individuals can be reconnected from within from their own source.

The next evolution will be very personal and not collective, for the simple reason that dependency on beliefs will be eradicated as the individual becomes a new initiate, an ascending initiate.

Instead of being led by collective values, he will become the creator of his evolutionary condition.

This, of course, will require this individual to put to death all aspects of devolutionary consciousness that have taken residence in his psyche.

Life will start from there as opposed to existence.

So, all in all, we can say that in a way he saved humanity.

[Puppet]

The “short and simple” answer to your question is that: there is no “short and simple” answer.

It could be argued that the teaching of Jesus Christ (that is not his real name) have been changed to fit the political faction that existed at the time the King James version of the bible was written, etc.

When it all comes down to it, your belief in Christ is a matter of faith… which is a belief in something you can not prove.

I have seen a wide spectrum of data on Jesus Christ, his other names, alternate teachings that are not taught in the bible; and I have come to the following conclusion:

1. There was a Jesus Christ type figure who lived, who preformed many great deeds & miracles.
2. Some of the stories of Jesus, such as the suspect date of his birth, certain things he did, and places he traveled to. He may not have had the amount of follower, ie.12 as spoken about. Etc.
3. Jesus being the Son of God…. This is where your faith comes in. Do you believe it or don’t you? I personally can’t see any harm in believing it. If he was… then he was… if he was not… then he was not… it still doesn’t change the fact that this man did many wonderful things and deeds, and tried his best to help mankind…

[Jonah]

Richard.
A reality without the unknown?
Who fears to lose control? The dead?

Mental illness caused by fear?
in death there is no consciousness?

This bridge then was shown to us by him. So we can lead ourselves.

Forgive me. I understand what you are saying. And I believe you are correct. But it is so hard to explain to a devote christian without undermining their beliefs. I feel like such a fool.

[Richard T]

Hi there,

Why would you want to take religion away from a person?

Not everyone is at the same place within the time of their personal evolution. People need the support of their religion for the time they need it.

Religion has been a strong regulatory force to civilize a planet that would otherwise have destroyed itself long ago. Even though if yes, I know, religion has been the base for much pain and lies. But the lies come from beyond material man. And the religious are lied to according to their personal need for experience, like those who are beyond religion are lied to according to their personal need for experience.

And that will remain until we, as individuals, are beyond experience to enter evolution and eventually to enter yet another cycle.

So, we must respect people's right to religion.

Nothing is unknown. But information is not given freely.

Fear is the sole weapon that death has over man. And it is through fear that they possess his mind.

In death, there is a loss of consciousness as we know it while incarnated. It is not an absence of consciousness but a consciousness of another order. It is an active memory principle that is disconnected from the worlds of light.

It is only within matter that the connection can be made, until a body, other than the astral body, lets call it the mental body, has been completed to recuperate the full energy of the memory of the experience that we call the soul. That mental plane is the place to which the bridge leads to.

We can lead ourselves from that plane but not from this plane. What people have been calling the 'higher self'. But that is not the wishful ego.

What would you say it was that the Nazareen talked about when he referred to his father?

People don't read by vibration. They read by memorial references. So, they get things explained for them, instead of allowing their own spirit to let them see outside for the forms afforded by thoughts. And thoughts are always restricted, adjusted to memorial matter, therefore the astral sphere.

[Jonah]

Mr. T,
It is not my intention to take anything away from anyone. I ask these things for myself. And I know now why I felt so inclined to do so. Your words are very helpful to me. It was this information about the astral sphere that I was looking for.
I cant help but wonder if the point to all this is so that someday we will be able to lead ourselves from this plane forever.

Thank you.

[ThePirateKing]

Richard, great post! Thanks for that.

[Swanny]

I reckon he was a alien

[Shellie]

Wow... Secretly, I always thought Jesus was a vehicle for people between Morocco and India to talk about spirituality without getting their heads chopped off by the self-deifying rulers and snotty self-righteous Pharisees that filled the Middle East. Creating a character Jeshua who embodied the characteristics of the common mythology of the time and who could also tell stories about the truth was a good way for these people to encode their belief systems. But then it all went wrong... people took the allegorical too seriously and suddenly the unreal became "real". And 1700 years later, they still think he is "real".

[Shellie]

But I might add... studying (eastern) orthodox theology I believe will get you closest to what the original Christians believed (though it is simply the only survivor of the many beliefs).

You know, most people don't know that the orthodox believe that we are a part of God, and that we were originally like God - we were truly made in His image (read psalm 82). If/when we return to heaven, it is not a place, but a state of being... a state of joining back into one piece with God. Hell is a state of being distant from God, a separate piece.

[indakaz]

I and the father are one.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by indakaz

I and the father are one.

Which BTW is true of each of us

[Merkhava]

I am a Jewish man with a fair understanding of the Tanakh (aka Old Testament).

After considering what Moses and the Prophets revealed about the coming of Mashiakh, which Christians call the Messiah or the Christ, there are many conclusions I have drawn for myself about Yeshua HaMashiakh (which converted into English is the name Jesus Christ).

To enunciate all these conclusions justly would take a book, but I will summarize a few significant items that I had to seriously consider as a Jewish man.

Yeshua is the physical incarnation in human form of the infinite Almighty God.

In our Jewish tradition, we say God is Ein Sof, meaning He is the omnipresent Spirit so infinite and so exalted that He is beyond full description and beyond comprehension. We believe that He is Love in absolute perfection. Since God is Love, His personal care for the human race and His jealous longing towards each one of us individually is so strong, that the Most High God, the Creator Spirit of all that exists, made Himself into a Man in order to be near us and become like us.

It is a great wonder of the Universe how that God made humanity in His image at the time of Creation.

But it is a much greater wonder that God made Himself into One of us. He focused His infinity into the enclosed flesh of man, being born into this world as a human being just like each of us. By doing so, He experienced everything in this world, just as we do now, becoming sympathetic and uniquely attached to us through the experience of His own human condition.

The prophet Isaiah wrote about 700 years before the birth of Yeshua this prophecy:

For us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder, and His name will be “Wonderful Counselor - Mighty God - Father of Eternity - Prince of Peace” Isaiah 9:6

The prophet revealed to us that this Son who is born to us is God Himself - the Eternal Father come in the flesh.

So what is Jesus?

He is the focused physical incarnation of the infinite Almighty God. He is the solid proof of just how much God loves us – so much so that He became One of us.

Why?

So that we could have the opportunity to become like Him – One with Him. He in us and we in Him so that the “I AM THAT I AM” who met Moses at the burning bush becomes ALL in all.

Regards,
Merkhava

[oxjmaups2005xo]

i believe jesus was a master of preaching the way the truth and the light blah blah blah stuff as in the way to make humanity a better species spiritually do i believe he was a god hell no and that goes for any extraterrestrial or humanoid thingamajig anywhere because a human or spirit anything cannot hold the power and body of the whole universe and dimensions into there being that why we have gods that love us unconditionally so we dont have to make things so complex

[stefaan]

The documentary channel National Geographic have some good documentaries on Jezus.
In one they search for the historical jezus. They found not less than 6 candidates.
Jezus is probably a myth, derived from the lifes of those 6, mixed with some old beliefs, Mithras (persian), Dyonisis (roman)..., eastern beliefs (budhism), beliefs from ancient egypt, etc.

Remember there were 37 gospels. Only 4 thoroughly edited versions remained, where accepted (canon). The rest came to be apocrypha. This had more to do with politics than religion or truth.

The significance of the biblical Jezus should stay personal. Even when there was no real historical figure corresponding to the biblical Jezus, the value of the stories remains.

[Frank Samuel]

Jesus after years of trying to understand the value of this figure in my life, he became one of the keys for defining my relationship to God. However as humans often do the stories are often blown out of proportion, and the real essence of the teachings in my humble opinion where so much more than any Holy book could describe. For me the real Key figures where his mother, his brothers , sisters and other figures hidden from the pages of the Bible. Several controversial myth where created to make Jesus a God similar to the Gods known to the Romans and the Greeks . Of course Jesus did not fit the typical God image of the time. So what do you do as a Disciple of Jesus with 3 yrs. or less of teachings and understanding, you pray and hope for the best.
The core of what became the central theology 500 yrs. after the resurrection of Jesus was more politically motivated. One example Jesus Birth. Who was the biological Father of Jesus ? Did Mary have other children ?
Why is very little known about Jesus chilhood and the realizations and revelations he had as a child? Here is where Jesus mother and brothers and sisters play a major role. Why was Jesus kill ? Was Jesus supposed to die 3 yrs. after startting his ministry ? What would had happen if Jesus live into his old age ? What would the interpretation of the message be if Jesus
would had marry and bear children? These quetions in my search for answers became the key to unlocking the secrets of Jesus value in my life. The myth and the historical Jesus. 2000 yrs. of the history of christianity. why is there so many denominations and interpretations? 2000 yrs. of myths and distorted views...

[Jma]

Jesus was the son of God who died for us to live (wipe our bad karma)

Was any of you born of a virgin birth?

Don´t be ignoramuses.

[Frank Samuel]

JMA I carry that same picture of Jesus derived from the shroud of Turin.
I do not mean to offend your belief !!! I have study the life of Jesus , and like you I have my belief. Is all part of our spiritual developement. Seek and you will find, knock and the answer will be given. This is all that I am doing.

God Bless You JMA.
Peace and love to you

[Richard T]

Sorry, but no one will take over someone else's karma.

And the karma of the world, as well as the karma of the individuals, still need to be burned. And its no small thing.

@Merkhava
What is your view on Cain's wife?

Is it not interesting that the Jewish tradition gives precedence to the mother but that in the Adamic case, we start of with the precedence of a man?

Because, of course, Cain for one had to find his wife among those who were already there when Adam and family left the garden.

[stefaan]

Originally Posted by Jma

Was any of you born of a virgin birth?

I don't want to go into discussion, but...
The virgin birth idea was very common in those days.
Mithras was said to be born of a virgin mother.
Dionysus was... and you can find dozens of them.
Here you find a list

Virgin can be interpreted in many ways.

[Frank Samuel]

Stefan you are very wise.. symbolism is part of the secret code of the bible.
Practical questions leads to logical answers.
Thanks Stefan.

[Jonah]

Mr. T,

Is it that perhaps the Nazareen talk about ascension when referring to his father?

[Theresa]

Religion is fear based and fantasy. Bold statement, I know, but if one begins the process of spiritual PRACTICE, not just rote ritualistic behavior, true spiritual awareness begins to develop, and we begin to see the bible as metaphor and teaching at best, and parts of it as deliberate misinformation.

I have been in ministry training, was raised Catholic and now channel Jesus~Holy Spirit, the latter of which offers very definite teachings which I have transcribed as a book and dvd. Am I an expert? no, but I AM living a life of spiritual PRACTICE. It takes WORK to ascend. a LOT of it, which is why people mostly want to fall back on what's already been done, and then argue about it. The only way to enlightenment is doing the hard work of it OURSELVES.

That being said, the cornerstone of spiritual awakening is SELF RESPONSIBILITY-becoming totally responsible that we are the creators of ALL of our experience. The next step is being willing to ask the Holy Spirit, our higher self, GOD, etc, to HELP us FORGIVE OURSELVES for making up beliefs of unworthiness that are manifesting the stuff we dont' like. Its that simple. The Jesus I know says that this is all we need to know to spiritually awaken, and create HEAVEN HERE, not in some "fantasy" place with some "father" GOD. WE ARE GOD. Here are the two steps:

1. total, ruthless responsibility for being the creator of ALL of our experience
2. being willing to forgive ourselves for making up beliefs of unworthiness

Easy? Not on your life-especially the "taking responsibility" part, in case you haven't noticed.

In fact, if one reads the bible from this level of truth, it says that Jesus could NOT heal EVERYONE because of their UNBELIEF!! What weren't they believing? that they were WORTHY of being healed.

so....consider taking on a path of mastery. It will be a DOING path of SURRENDER and SERVICE. Then you are LIVING the WORD, not just arguing about it....

www.forgiveandawaken.com

~LOVE PEACE JOY TRUTH IS ALL THAT IS ALL~

[Richard T]

Hello Vorian's Revenge. Here is what I see in relation to this question.

There are two movements of the energy related to this.

Descending energy and ascending energy.

The bulk of individuals experimenting within a material shell are associated to ascending energy. Rare instances of avatars of descending energy appear, from time to time, to establish adjustment conditions that change the direction of a consciousness limited by the condition of the experience.

An ascending condition results from a cpntrol of information at a point located between the materialized entity and the universal origin of that same entity, located outside of space, in a location in time.

The filtering of information has for purpose the maintenance of consciousness in a lesser realm. If it was not done this way, no consciousness would accept to remain in action and in essence in the gross material field of dense energy.

The intelligences thus invested in material works are used to increase the level of science of the energy on this outer plane, the material plane,

These intelligences are organized in legions, or hierarchies, according to the universal status of the filter intelligence that allows information to be transferred to the material brain, allowing for various levels of sciences as they are recorded in universal archives.

The ability to travel in the world of those archives being dependant on the universal status of the universal source of that individual materialized intelligence.

Every materialized intelligence is linked to a unique universal source that is perfect in its essence. Yet, every ascending intelligence, invested by the source within the material plane is limited by the intermediary, some sort of cosmic ego, who adjusts the energy to the works required in the material plane.

A descemding order of intelligences is an order that has not segregated a fraction of its energy into a permanent materialized terminal. This means that when such an intelligence descends by incarnation, it retains its right to know absolutely within the time of the source.

These intelligences are the great initiates of the various epochs who had instantaneous access to universal science and carried the power of the verb, which is the science of the sound over atomic consciousness.

But they are not ascending, in the sense that they have no pact with ascending energy, but only have an agenda in relation with worlds in ascension.

Ascention means that the universal intelligence at the source of life and consciousness of the intelligence invested in matter wants to recuperate the fruit of its creation, and rapatriate the energy of the exprience it invested in matter over the aeons, the sum of which is the energy of what we call the soul.

There are orders of intelligences that are opposed to this process since the result of it will change the evolutionary curve of the universe and they risk losing ascendency over vast number of races, in the cosmos, who are kept under the veil of information wtholding, effectively controlling their rate of evolution at a lower pace than what would otherwise be quickened, were they allowed to tap into universal science.

This movement results from the addition of a new universal principle over the two original principles that were intelligence and will.
This third principle is love.

And love is not yet a universally recognized principle. It first infused on this planet. And this is the curve ball that changes things.

It changes things because love is a universal principles that rendes free.

Whereas, will is a universal principle that binds.

Intelligence and will are the equivalent of what we perceive as good and evil. Love has nothing to do with good and evil. Love gives what is required using both intelligence and will.

Intelligence and will, good and evil, are the forces that captivated the materialized intelligences as they were infused in the material sphere. They are spirituality and domination, necessary forces in the evolution of the science of energy in this sphere.

The infusion of this new Aleph, love, that renders free, will make it so that in a certain future, a number of men will work on the various planes of reality to allow information transfers to races in order for them to speed up their evolution and increase their vibrational rate, which is necessary to transport consciousness over that vast spaces of universal archives.

There are a number of such races who are aware of this process, as they have been instructed by this order of intelligences infused on this globe. This race is what has been called the Adamic race.

At the same time, there are countless other orders of intelligences whose origin is not that of the Adamic race and who are in charge, so to speak, of the evolution of material realms, and who possess a science of energy that is so far ahear than what man can imagine that were they to materialize to man, man would have no other choice than to kneel and pray them as gods.

They would have no means to resist, because of the weak nature of the soul.

These hierarchies and their subserviant races have invested energy on this globe and have a multitude of invested associated intelligences. The bulk of humanity.

And they vehemently oppose the coming of man as an avatar of its source.

Man's assention is the reconnection of the infused intelligence in matter to the universal source, which means the construction of a personal bridge between the finite and the infinite. Something that requires a total deconstruction of psychology to allow the intelligence to construct the reality it wills, in accordance with the will of the source.

The source is what the Nazareen referred to as the father.

Ascending energy is the energy of the soul, basicaly the energy of memory that is secluded within the form, the form being the memory that is recalled and the energy being the spirit trapped behind the veil of memory.

Rendering free means the destruction of the form so that the spirit is free to travel the axis of the ray that connects all the planes of reality it intersects, ray of creation that is him, in total, and a multidimentional reality.

The next cycle will be related to the destruction of the form to allow the spirit to create forms that are in harmony with the source and its plan, rather than a form, like today, a civilization, that is adapted to the need of the soul for more experience.

If the spirit breaks free from the form, bridging between the memory of the soul and a sub-plane of matter that is free from astral influences, Luciferian forces lose power over it, because the world of the soul is Luciferian in essence.

Therefore, the real battleground is the human mind, and this is why this planet is so important and why so many souls seek experience here, as a totally new paradigm is about to be created.

As strange as it may sound, this planet will one day be called the planet of love. It is from here that its infusion will spread. And those men, still allowed to incarnate here, will trade the science of love for the science of energy, and quicken the ascending movement of materialzed entity, since the science of love is superior in vibration to the science of energy.

[371]

I think it is interesting that Jesus repeatedly said in the Bible "I am the son of Man", not the "Son of God" that people commonly say he said. I guess the implication is that all man are the sons of God. Man was created to serve god, Jesus came to serve man (not in the Twilight Zone way, in fact the opposite).