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Old 11-06-2008, 07:21 AM   #1
shybastid
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Default Pics of American Flag on Moon

OK Maybe I posted in/on wrong Forum...

Why have'nt China,India,Japan OR the Hubble EVER shown any Pics of the leftover MoonRanger tracks, OR the Ranger, OR the USA FLAG, while they orbit,while the Hubble takes GREAT shots of everything BUT those artifacts.

I wanna see some pics.PRE Ten years Ago or Twenty years.With Pics of us being there.

I want Fresh Data.

Anybody got any ?
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:13 AM   #2
feeler
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by shybastid View Post
OK Maybe I posted in/on wrong Forum...

Why have'nt China,India,Japan OR the Hubble EVER shown any Pics of the leftover MoonRanger tracks, OR the Ranger, OR the USA FLAG, while they orbit,while the Hubble takes GREAT shots of everything BUT those artifacts.

I wanna see some pics.PRE Ten years Ago or Twenty years.With Pics of us being there.

I want Fresh Data.

Anybody got any ?



We've been shown the American flag hundreds of times.

One thing we weren't shown was the way the asstronauts assembled the lunar rover together. That would have been inspirational. Older kids would have been able to assemble the model kits together the way the asstronauts did it on the moon.

If there is a wish list, I'd like to see the asstronauts jump higher than 6 inches, say, 6 feet; that would have been awesome!

I'd also like to see the asstronauts bring back some high quality motion picture back from moon. The long distance live transmission had too much statics and the side effect made every ACT as if it was played back in slow motion. What a shame. The asstronauts made it all the to the moon, but didn't bring back one sinlge wheel of film... I am so disappointed.

By the way, where within the lunar module did the asstronauts store the rover parts?
>< -feeler




Last edited by feeler; 11-06-2008 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:14 AM   #3
capreycorn
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

http://www.serpo.org/
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:29 AM   #4
taomation
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Perhaps, becasue they never went there. There is a lot of evidence that suggests this. Just do a Google search...Tao
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:46 AM   #5
Ampgod
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

HAHAHA nice backdrop!
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:52 AM   #6
Ancientarrow
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

You won't see any pictures of the moon using the Hubble because the focal length of the mirror is set for great distances, in essence the moon is too close to the earth to get it in focus. It does not have what would be considered a macro lense for the moon.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:43 AM   #7
Swanny
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Great post Feeler
I never thought of where the rover was apparently stored. Maybe they had a trailer that they towed behind them on the way????
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:15 PM   #8
Ali Quadir
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by shybastid View Post
OK Maybe I posted in/on wrong Forum...

Why have'nt China,India,Japan OR the Hubble EVER shown any Pics of the leftover MoonRanger tracks, OR the Ranger, OR the USA FLAG, while they orbit,while the Hubble takes GREAT shots of everything BUT those artifacts.
Quite simply: This is because telescopes would need to be 10 times larger than our biggest ones in order to be able to see objects as small as the flag or the lander.

Hubble is about 100 times too small a telescope. You have to realize that the best spy satelites can zoom into a few inches from a few miles up. Now suddenly we're talking about hundreds of thousands of miles. Go figure.

The only thing like what you're asking that was ever done is the mars orbiter (I believe) taking a snapshot of the phoenix on it's descent. And that's 2 objects in the relative same place in orbit around the same planet.

You have to remember that the awesome photo's snapped by hubble are made of light sources multiple lightyears across. Even if they are many many parsecs away they still are a lot easier to spot than a dark flag on the next rock.

I personally don't see how those "Moon hoax conspiracy" theories can be taken serious. I have not found one single factual problem suggested by those theories to withstand real scrutiny. The only serious conspiracy I can think of is: Why did we stop going so incredibly suddenly when the moon clearly is an outpost of significant importance both tactically and scientifically.
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Old 11-06-2008, 07:02 PM   #9
argonacon
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

well, i dont know if they faked the whole landing or not, but i don't think what they showed on tv was real.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mouUUWpEec0
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Old 11-06-2008, 08:13 PM   #10
AndyH
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Quadir View Post
Quite simply: This is because telescopes would need to be 10 times larger than our biggest ones in order to be able to see objects as small as the flag or the lander.

Hubble is about 100 times too small a telescope. You have to realize that the best spy satelites can zoom into a few inches from a few miles up. Now suddenly we're talking about hundreds of thousands of miles. Go figure.

The only thing like what you're asking that was ever done is the mars orbiter (I believe) taking a snapshot of the phoenix on it's descent. And that's 2 objects in the relative same place in orbit around the same planet.

You have to remember that the awesome photo's snapped by hubble are made of light sources multiple lightyears across. Even if they are many many parsecs away they still are a lot easier to spot than a dark flag on the next rock.

I personally don't see how those "Moon hoax conspiracy" theories can be taken serious. I have not found one single factual problem suggested by those theories to withstand real scrutiny. The only serious conspiracy I can think of is: Why did we stop going so incredibly suddenly when the moon clearly is an outpost of significant importance both tactically and scientifically.
A sensible post. There's plenty of proof that NASA did indeed visit the moon, including laser distance ranging units which are still in use today.
http://www.spacetoday.org/SolSys/Moo...rDistance.html

The great conspiracy is indeed why we have stagnated on this planet ever since. The answer is our obsession with consumerism which has left us with this religious belief that lack of money prevents us from doing anything really worthwhile. Instead we spend literally trillions on a variety of ways of killing each other and living in fear of big govt and our own weakness.
People should concentrate on "conspiracy fact" instead of "theory". The conspiracy fact is of far more immediate import. Deal with that first, then there'll be time to consider the aliens/moon bases/jump gates later.
The reason why you would be able to look into all that for real later is because if all of us were to tackle the immediate issue of being prisoners of our own making and take the planet back for the human race then no secrets would be left to hide anymore.
Capiche?
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:52 PM   #11
shybastid
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Thanks.. you guys..Hubble question answered.

Ummmm?? Can the NEW satellites from other countries record current photo's of our leftover debris?
If google can record every inch of Earth with THEIR satellites,we should get be able to close ups of the moon,right? Or am I being redundit? Sorry if I am.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:11 PM   #12
Ali Quadir
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by shybastid View Post
Ummmm?? Can the NEW satellites from other countries record current photo's of our leftover debris?
If google can record every inch of Earth with THEIR satellites,we should get be able to close ups of the moon,right? Or am I being redundit? Sorry if I am.
I don't think so, it's because of the distance between the earth and the moon its quite literally thousands of times the distance from the satellites to the earth.. We could do it if we had such a satellite in orbit around the moon but I think the stuff out there is old and much less advanced. The problem is that they don't have the right cameras at the right locations to do it right now. These are multi million dollar devices so they don't just use them to prove a point.

The real issue in my mind is why doubt it? The technology was clearly available, the undertaking was massive but they did spend a lot of time and energy on it.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:19 PM   #13
Atk1d
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Putting aside the known fact of the Van Allen RADIATION belt that does indeed surround our planet,also setting aside the fact that in the infancy stages of nasa during the sixties,the suits would not have been able to withstand the onslought of radiation from the van allen belt, not to mention the spikes of solar radiation from our sun! All of these points are facts.....There is still a call for a original suit to be used to clean up a radition spill (like chernobal) but they(nasa) will not comply Hmmmmm what is up with that?

Also Jaxa the japanese space agency just recently sent up an orbitor of the moon carrying HD cameras, great shots of the surface but still no Flag or Rover. Hmmmmm
I sent them an email congratulating them on the success, and asked if they would send pics of the earky apollo missions.
I'll post my email and their response.
First My question:
> [ Question ]
> First, cheers to you and your team on a tremendous journey, may it continue to be an enlightening project.
> You may not have the authority to answer this question,How ever I hope that you can.
> If the project yeilds no eveidence of any of the applo misions from the 60's, on the lunar surface, will you publish?

KAGUYA project website
http://www.jaxa.jp/countdown/f13/index_e.html

As for your question, we estimate that it will be impossible to
find any wreckage of Apollo mission of NASA with the accuracy of
the cameras onboard the KAGUYA.

We anticipate your continuous interest toward KAGUYA

I like the part where they call it WRECKAGE, the vaccuum of space should protect all the equipment, And a little white lie about their camera it's an HD camera Floating a few hund. miles above the surface.
You decide.

Last edited by Atk1d; 11-06-2008 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:21 PM   #14
AndyH
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by shybastid View Post
Thanks.. you guys..Hubble question answered.

Ummmm?? Can the NEW satellites from other countries record current photo's of our leftover debris?
If google can record every inch of Earth with THEIR satellites,we should get be able to close ups of the moon,right? Or am I being redundit? Sorry if I am.
The moon is too far away to resolve anything as small as a flag unless you put a satellite in orbit around it at a similar distance as the ones currently used for Earth mapping etc.

Some of the best resolution mapping is actually not optical but of different wavelengths.

Here's the maths..

The moon is about 221000 miles away and lets say the flag is 6 foot high.
To optically resolve the flag we would need to do some trigonometry for the angle of resolution.

Imagine a triangle with the long bottom side the 221000 miles (1,166,880,000 feet) and the vertical side is 6 feet for the flag at the moon.
We know the opposite and the adjacent lengths so we use tangent.

Tan 6/1166880000 = 5.14x10 to the power of -9.
Or .0000000051 is probably simpler to see.

That's .0000000051 radians, convert to degrees and we get 0.000000295 degrees.

So we would need a telescope capable of resolving 0.000000295 degrees of arc...or .001060596 arc seconds.
Just over a thousandth of an arc second.

To those who don't understand it's probably best to take that figure and put it to a size for a telescope..

To do that we need to use Dawes Limit-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_limit

The telescopes mirror diameter can be calculated from the formula shown there- D(in inches)=4.56/arc seconds

So 4.56/0.001060596= z0mgwtfbbqcornflakes

4300 inches in diameter.

That's 358 feet across.

Let me know when NASA build one

EDIT- It's worth noting that 221000 miles is the figure for closest approach, the moon is actually as far away as a quarter of a million miles at it's furthest.

Last edited by AndyH; 11-06-2008 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Distance info.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:47 PM   #15
Swanny
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

I don't beleive they have been yet IMO they were upset that the Russians put a man in space before them so they made up a story that they landed on the moon.
If they had made it there would be a McDonalds on there by now
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:23 PM   #16
AndyH
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanny View Post
If they had made it there would be a McDonalds on there by now
LOL!!!
Hey, give it time
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:09 PM   #17
reggaeman
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=neoUi4poCXI
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:25 PM   #18
Average Joe
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Andy, are you saying that a 360ft telescope would actually be able to see a flag on the moon? Wow.

What is the biggest telescope presently?
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:35 PM   #19
AndyH
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

http://www.as.arizona.edu:8080/Astro...151/index_html

This seems to fit the bill with a 27 foot mirror.

Atmospheric interference would make a mess of a large mirrored scope anyway, the best place to build a huge optical telescope would actually be in orbit.
iirc there was a plan to do this in the near future?
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Old 11-08-2008, 11:38 PM   #20
AndyH
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Default Re: Pics of American Flag on Moon

Actually theres one in the Gran Canaries that tops that slightly at 10 metres.
http://www.gtc.iac.es/

I can't manage spanish btw
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