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Old 10-13-2008, 10:03 PM   #1
astropsyche
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Default being pushed to choose death

A few days ago Baroness Warnock announced that she thinks persons living well into old age and suffering from dementia should be persuaded to allow themselves to be put to sleep. To choose death. So as not to be a burden on the taxpaying public and the UKs gem - the National Health Service. Should health provision and social services fail as a result of the various tsunamis hitting our world we need to urgently consider how we care for these frail elder citizens. These citizens who have paid into health services for nigh on fifty years! Those of us now in our late fifties and sixties are the dementia sufferers of the near future - we need to confront this problem NOW! if we are to save people from euthanasia. Please can people feedback on this?
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:08 PM   #2
Donny
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

Having worked and still working in elderly care, I feel i must add a point from experience.
On a weekly basis i must have 2 people asking me to help them die, sadly the others are so deep with mental issues that they dont even know they are alive.

There are always pros and cons, but where do we draw a line and not play god.

Donny
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:17 PM   #3
Dantheman62
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

It should be decided before hand, like while you can still think for yourself, and not forced on anyone. If I can't wipe my own butt or am just lying there a vegetable than by all means please put me out of my misery!
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

problem there is once you lose it you fall onto doctors and family, and the family wants to see aunty martha next xmas, so they liase with doctors, get more pills and live out the rest of there very sad lives in a daze,. bloody sad to see.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:33 PM   #5
Dantheman62
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

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Originally Posted by Donny View Post
problem there is once you lose it you fall onto doctors and family, and the family wants to see aunty martha next xmas, so they liase with doctors, get more pills and live out the rest of there very sad lives in a daze,. bloody sad to see.
That's why I say it must be done sooner like put stipulations in your will or something. I should add that I'm only 46 but when I make a will I will put into it something that says please put me out if I wind up like that.

Last edited by Dantheman62; 10-13-2008 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:39 PM   #6
Donny
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

Talking about this exact item a while ago, to a trained medical practitioner, her remark was, "no, that would simply be barbarreck",
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:45 PM   #7
Dantheman62
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

I agree it is sad and I've seen the elderly like you say, having worked on x-ray equipment for 6 years in some of those places, you walk by them lined up in the hallway in their wheelchairs or hospital beds calling out " help me" when there was nothing I could do.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:46 PM   #8
astropsyche
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

Thanks for your replies - and I accept what you all have to say. However, one of the biggest problems people living with dementia have is that all too often they are moved from their family home into residential care homes. Now I know carers in these homes are increasingly well trained and do a good job under difficult conditions. But, my work was caring for dementia sufferers in their own homes until they passed away - peacefully usually. I nursed several of my clients for years and this was a great comfort to the families of those I cared for. My fear is that, when times get very tough, which it looks increasingly like they are, our elders will be the last group in the pecking order. In my view - the implications for 750,000 persons living with dementia currently and many more cases expected in the next ten years are dire. I fear also the ignorance and misunderstanding of the nature of dementia - and how best to care for these people. Of course - if Baroness Warnock does get her way - where will it end? This is a slippery slope - one negotiated without shame by the Nazis. The nearest we have to Nazis today are those currently in 'charge' of our countries!
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:56 PM   #9
Dantheman62
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

Cheers to you, wow, I'm sure a very hard job to do, it sounds like what we have here in the US called Hospice.
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Old 10-13-2008, 10:56 PM   #10
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I have used csci in homes that I felt were not giving all care needed, and i am very unhappy with care in general. I often get carpetted for taking too long a time with clients but, when you consider that they get shifted from there homes often having to sell them to pay the care bills, and then get basicaly dumped in any available place that will take them. Should we not be making there new suroundings as much like there old habbit and routine as close as possible?

This is such a huge subject and i am not realy sure this is the site for it, no offence.
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Old 10-13-2008, 11:15 PM   #11
astropsyche
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny View Post
I have used csci in homes that I felt were not giving all care needed, and i am very unhappy with care in general. I often get carpetted for taking too long a time with clients but, when you consider that they get shifted from there homes often having to sell them to pay the care bills, and then get basicaly dumped in any available place that will take them. Should we not be making there new suroundings as much like there old habbit and routine as close as possible?

This is such a huge subject and i am not realy sure this is the site for it, no offence.
[quote] I think this is precisely the site for this issue. I am trying to raise awareness because there could be a disaster waiting to happen if or when some of the worrying things happen which are talked about on this forum ad infinitum. Should there be civil breakdown - and many on this forum firmly believe this is a certainty - not only will 750,000 families be threatened by such an event, but a death sentence could be imposed on other 'unhealthy' persons. Those with mental health problems, physically impaired persons, poor people and drug users - which is what the Nazis did in Germany. I personally cannot see any difference between the Nazis of the 20th century and the Nazis who run the west! I think everyone who uses this forum needs to confront such issues because good old Rothschild is looking to erase billions of citizens and microchip the rest by his own admission. The ground crews will not only have young, healthy and highly skilled survivors to look after - and I think we all need to be aware of this. I would hate to think this forum only deals with issues related to healthy, non-disabled and clever folk - wouldn't you?
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:09 AM   #12
argonacon
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

personally, i would want to be put to death in that situation.
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Old 10-14-2008, 04:39 PM   #13
Greg10036
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

Highly reccommend everyone read The Nazi Doctors by Robert Jay Lifton. Especially pages 65-76, which explains the T4 experiments prior to the Final Solution.
g.
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Old 10-14-2008, 05:02 PM   #14
swatch
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

It is actually illegal to allow a dog to undergo suffering until it dies. The RSPCA would have you convicted. Yet we won't help those that want to end their suffering. Why should it be cancer that takes them? All too often at the end of their lives, these sufferers no longer have a voice in society. I have heard many tales of nurses being told by patients that they want to die. I heard my grandfather say it too. No amount of palliative care is enough when the spirit longs to go.
Two people have a choice
One says, let us both have our individual choices
The other says, no, I wish to have my will over yours.
That is the fact over voluntary euthanasia
How much peace people would know if they knew they could end their suffering if it all became too much. How they then could hang out for the last moment rather than suffer the fear and torment of knowing that their end will be terrible.
Why is there the presumption that suffering old people always want to live? I know that I would be so glad that someone put me out of my misery, particularly if I did not know it was coming! Oh to live in Holland.
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Old 10-15-2008, 02:40 AM   #15
Morgan
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman62 View Post
It should be decided before hand, like while you can still think for yourself, and not forced on anyone. If I can't wipe my own butt or am just lying there a vegetable than by all means please put me out of my misery!

I would strongly, strongly urge people to have WILLS drawn up, not only for instructions as to what you want to happen when you die, but also to indicate this sort of thing - ie. if you're not 'aware' of yourself, or you become vegetative/brain-damaged, what do you want to happen?

Have these discussions with your family and/or loved-ones. You never know when it's your time, and for your family, it's totally unbearably difficult to be having to make these decisions after you pass or are incapacitated.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:50 AM   #16
Dantheman62
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

Call Dr. kavorkian, he'll take care of it for ya.
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Old 10-16-2008, 04:13 AM   #17
Jonah
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

This issue has alot to do with mere fact that many people still fear death.

The folks with the unfortunate condition of having family members with such diseases as dementia are in difficult decision making circumstances. But it is not that difficult if they realize that death does not have to be feared.

It is a process that happens when the soul has no more use for its current body. This is plane to see. And when world changes what will become of its sick and elderly? This is what everyone fears. Why? Death is happens when it is supposed to. Not one minute sooner. And for those who are kept in there state of confusion by there family members who don't want them to miss Christmas, it is unfortunate. They seem to there more for their family members personal agendas than for their own. Sad indeed.
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Old 10-16-2008, 05:12 AM   #18
carcharodon
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Default Re: being pushed to choose death

It's not legal to persuade. The only time it's legally accepted is when one succeeds in suicide. Many elderly people have challenging medical conditions - however they wouldn't be thinking of giving up if they had support from their family. Some don't have close family. For many families it's convenient to put grandpa or grandma into elderly home. What this boils down to is some older people wish to die because of depression. By physically removing them from us we technically already did our part on persuasion. Are there any statistics that compare nr of seniors wishing premature death vs. same 100 years ago, when a typical family was sticking together?
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