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Old 03-17-2010, 07:02 PM   #1
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: south east uk
Posts: 379
Default Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.

This is an anecdote told before about Gurdjieff and his circle of students.
In a smallish group of students there is always somebody who does not fit in, seems to rub people up the wrong way or just plain old challenges the status quo. Many members of the group secretly and even vocally complained about just one such guy, he irritated the cr@p out of just about everyone in the group. During one session the guy decided he'd finally had enough and left. Everyone was happy and thought the chief would be pleased, in fact he was horrified and spent a considerable amount of time and effort to track the guy down and GET HIM BACK. He returned and berated the group exclaiming this guy was irreplaceable and if they did not have him he would have to pay someone to fulfill his function ( some even say he DID pay the guy).

So was this guy an "agent", simply the repressed shadow of the group,
or did he perhaps simply serve the function of reminding people of the nature of duality?

The shadow here is indeed the elephant in the room, and one people are not at all comfortable with, in fact so many here even deny they HAVE one. And a lot of collective energy on this forum has gone into trying to love it into submission, with disastrous results.

Some speak of this place having become like a playground. I can only speak for myself and say jeeze I never got to spend nearly enough time in the playground so whats not to like? It's all in the manner of how we play, and believe me, play is just about the highest activity a human can do, its like LOVE, it comes only from the heart amd its totally pointless

Others say OH STOP IT!!! Not wanting people to engage, trying to shut people up saying " stop with the negative threads", well helloooo don't click, don't look and DONT CONTROL. End of problem. After all , it is just people communicating, with passion and that sometimes gets a little rough.
Where does the scary energy come from? REPRESSION .
People wanting other people to NOT engage is repression of the worst order and the result is a kink in the hose that will BLOW, and indeed it has.

Uncomfortable communication is sometimes the most valuable, social niceties sometimes have a blanding effect and rub the corners off what might be a good debate and opportunity to experience a mentality unlike your own.

Some people called these threads with percieved negative expression a distraction. Actually I was focused, fascinated even, recently throughout in a way I never felt here before . Mostly because I sensed something needing to be brought to the light.
The Thuban thing indeed kicked something off, but I never read it. What I did read was the energy change and that really shockingly went overdrive into C O N T R O L. ther seems to b=have been a missed opportunity to examinw what happened and by CERTAIN ADMIN trying to suppress, a monster was created. Why deny it? Why didn't people want to let it run its course? Did it have too much power ? Who's ego at the top got hurt?

Interesting Celine post's a button to push, without telling why. Yes, buttons were pushed, big time. Course that could not happen if people were either naked ( therfore buttonless) or had had the sense to realize that was the gift.

Again, the elephant in the room, expressions of duality, and that's basically forums in a nutshell ( if you ask me forums ARE a nutshell)

AND what's so wrong with that? It's only people talking and taking a risk we might expose our differences.
I'd like to thank all the people I learned from here, it was invaluable, and some of it I even liked: wink2:
but its over, and that's good its shiva time baby ,
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:45 PM   #2
Avalon Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 102
Default Re: Gurdjieff, Agents, and Elephants.

Elephants are one of my main totem animals, SS. Interestingly enough, when I really started delving into all this stuff (I've always been very spiritual and interested in what's going on behind the scenes, but the last three years have been a MADHOUSE of information!), the literal elephant started showing up everywhere I looked! So much that I couldn't ignore it anymore - NOR the message of the PROVERBIAL elephant it was expressing to me.

This is a great anecdote. I definitely see the importance of the duality - one cannot truly exist without its opposite to help define it. Perhaps this man was a duality, and perhaps he was more than that - perhaps a reminder? A reminder to all those of what they're trying to achieve? After all, if EVERYONE in the group were loving, sentient beings, there would be nothing to achieve! In one of the verses of the Tao, it wisely states that "a bad man is a good man's job", and perhaps that's what this man was? A reminder and a job for the Lightworkers, those who only worked in love and positivity, of the group?

I won't comment on other posters (or moderators or administrators.) besides you (since we're talking, so to speak. ), but I couldn't get through the Thuban material myself, so I can relate. I read a few paragraphs, did NOT resonate with it at all, and went on my merry way. If someone got something positive and affirming out of it, that is SO wonderful, but just as it wasn't meant for you, it wasn't meant for me. We aren't less because we don't "get" it, and we aren't more because we're "above" it. It just is what it is.

The Thuban thread DEFINITELY started something rocking! Seemingly negative, yes, but one must knock down the old house to build the new one. There's a real beauty and symmetry in destruction - not in the havoc it wreaks, but in the opportunities it presents for new futures to unravel and present themselves. "Power and chaos!" as Zoot would say. (Only my friends here who watched/watch "The Tribe" would get that. :P)

A little off-topic, but . . . interesting how the earthquakes around the globe and the meltdown here at Avalon seemed to coincide with each other. Perhaps the earthquakes helped to cause havoc among us? Or perhaps OUR HAVOC helped to create the earthquakes? Something to think about, either way.

So I appreciate that particular thread and all the craziness that came along with it. Granted, I didn't post the entire time 'cause I just didn't wanna be a part of that, but I'm starting to see a bit of the old Avalon shining through the cracks, and that means something to me. This has always been a safe haven for me, and it's always a bit of a struggle when you see warriors coming over the horizon to take your haven over! But in a sense, those who bring Light "won" a particular "war" here on Avalon - and it was a war against ourselves. The dark side tried to get us to fight the dark instead of just simply BRINGING THE LIGHT, and some of us fell for it - but SOME of us saw it for what it was (another moment containing "this, too, shall pass".), left it alone and let it run its course, and stayed emotionally out of it. I think there's a lot to be said about that, and I think this is STILL a special place - a safe haven. Because during certain points, we bandied together and stood strong, and that counts.

You're right, SS - sometimes, the best epiphanies and bits of truth come out of DISCOURSE and not harmony! It is in these moments of discourse where we can truly find ourselves. After all, when we ask God (the Source, our Higher Self, Shiva, Allah, etc.) for courage, we are not given courage but instead a SITUATION IN WHICH TO BE COURAGEOUS. And the Thuban thread, particularly, was for quite a few of us, I think, a way for us to find a bit of ourselves again.

I personally find the distraction not in the posts that were posted (not even the seemingly negative ones.) but in those waving their arms and saying, "Distraction! Distraction!". These people expressing their theory that the conversations were "distractions" were coming from a multitude of places, and I see that. Some probably feared the conversation, some probably feared the thread itself in question, some probably just wanted the drama to continue, some probably ate up the darkness and were trying to fill their ego, etc. But perhaps it's time to let it all go? After all, the proverbial house has already been knocked down. Why don't we shake hands, call a truce, and start building a new one?

Thanks so much for your post, Swordsmith. It was filled with beautiful questions and, whether you can see it or not, many answers! I appreciate this kind of conversation - it will lead us back to where we were before it all happened, albeit a little more wiser, a little more patient, and a lot more loving.

hollylindin is offline   Reply With Quote

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