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Old 03-03-2010, 11:31 AM   #626
4Q529
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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Originally Posted by carriblu View Post
my question is, where do the thoughts come from? have they always existed?
You have to be quite careful here not to be distracted from the fundamental issue, which is maintaining a consciousness independent of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.

The questions "Where do thoughts come from?" and "Have they always existed?" are questions of a 'thinker' that is trying to seduce you back into the realm of thought. So, there is no real benefit in pursuing such questions.

What is much more important is that thought itself is time, as has been observed by Krishnamurti.

And what is the purpose or function of time?

To preserve the spatiality of the consciousness of the "self" which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection.

In other words, the "serpent" of Genesis and the "dragon" of the Revelation of John symbolize the duality created by the 'movement' of self-reflection; the "beast of the sea" is the spatiality of the "self"; and the "beast of the earth" is the efforts of thought and the 'thinker' to maintain the temporal continuity of the spatiality of the "self".

And all of this is the very origin and manifestation of conflict and violence.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:42 AM   #627
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Sharing.
Today I normally get a lift to the gym.
Here I was all dressed for it waiting, no sign of my friend Jim.
Some times goes bye, the phone rings, its Jim,
"I slept in" he says.
I now have choice.
I can identify with any low energy thoughts that arise, get frustrated, even get mad.

I say to Jim thats great you will benefit from a good sleep, ( his health is not good and sleep escapes him often)
We can play some tomorrow. Wed are both musicians and we record together.
End of conversation.
Thats a far cry from the way I would have reacted some time back.
Every low vibration, negative thought that I identify with lowers my frequency / attractor field and I will get more of the same.

Every high vibration positive though that I observe and see myself act apon raises not only my vibration, "my" vibration but also raises the collective field of consciouses which I am a part of. I therfore have a responsability to act with kindness and consideration to others, even if I dont agree with them
I can disagree without being disagreeable.
With love
Chris
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:47 AM   #628
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I see thought itself as something more solid , a standing wave one identifies to and that creates the illusion of time.When the illusion of time sets in one goes through thought processes ( one thought opposing an another and creating dichotomy ) and this in itself creates the illusion of mind.

By letting go of the illusion of time .. of being anchored in a specific space one takes back his sovereignety as the observer outside of time : pure undisturbed freely flowing Consciousness.

Love Always
mudra
(As Krishnamurti observed, thought is time and thought is fear.)

For me, the importance of the video was in describing the experience of consciousness I have had for some 30 years. That is the experience of consciousness of someone who has received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the Memory of Creation.

So, for me, the question is no longer the reality of that dimension of consciousness.

My question is why is this understanding of consciousness not more widely known?

And that is my understanding of the War of the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness.

Specifically who is it that is preventing this understanding of consciousness from being more widely known?

In religion, it is all of those religious 'authorities' of Judaism, Christianity and Islam who are ignoring and censoring the Knowledge Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection". Their goal is to preserve the dualistic consciousness and thoughts of religion and theology; and it is these doctrines that are pushing the Middle East toward a nuclear war.

But, at the same time, there are those in what is referred to as the "science of consciousness" who are similarly involved in censoring all information about the dimension of consciousness beyond the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker'.

Clearly, the gentleman on the video provides information on behalf of the Sons of Light.

My concern is with the Sons of Darkness and how they prevent this understanding of consciousness from being known.

And their chief weapon is the censorship of such knowledge; the consequence of which will be the annihilation or near-annihilation of human civilization.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:31 PM   #629
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With respect to you Michael C
Because I have no knowledge of the bible at a scholars level some of what you say goes over my head its in a language unknown to me and possibly many others..
The way Eckh art Tolle expresses is within the grasp of many and he is doing a lot to raise consciousness . The ego and that which is behind the ego cant stand the concept of Now because it need time to maintain the illusion of seperation. So much is being done to get away from the fall of consciousness.
The eternal moment is always Now and that is where God is to be found within.
The tried and trusted "methods", of meditation, prayer, surrender to Gods will, self less service are very powerful in transcending the ego, which is the only cause of myserie on this earth, as long as the person dosent identify with the thought that I am the medtator, that there is a me doing!!!
Hawkins does much as well to dispell the notion that there is as thinker of thoughts.
In this world, he also has the ear of various governments and has been instrumental in resolving seriouslong standing conflicts see the link.

http://www.veritaspub.com/index.php?page=about

I hope you feel at "home" here Michael, your contributions are welcome even if I dont understand some of what you share, I feel the essence of it.
Many ways of verbalizing the truth.
I have no doubt your spiritual experiences are true Michael.

I have found that reading various spiritual work acts as a cross check an can thefoore exercise some discernment/discrimination as to what influences me,

With love and respect for all who contribute here.
Chrid
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:52 PM   #630
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Talking of low vibrations... i used to 'hate' people who never dip their headilights when they come round a bend.

I used to think, how can they not be aware that I am coming? I see their approach , why are they not aware of mine?

I hated getting blinded because of their unawareness. So I would sometimes flash my lights before a corner to alert them, or even put my headlights on full before a corner to coerce them into turning theirs down.



You'd be suprised how many times I'd get blinded, and every corner at night could be a stressful event.

For months now, I just haven't thought about it. I don't get involved. I don't pass judgement on the drivers' of the other cars. And I honestly can't remember now if I get blinded or not.

I've moved on, and that problem (my ego seeking control of a situation outside of its control) is no longer a problem.

So. Onto the next one !

K

P.S. thanks for the theological debate.. Michael and Chris. I don't pretend to understand it all either... but I like the idea of the mind maybe not being a thing but also a thought. Eckhart does mention the importance of being the 'watcher' and that seems to ring true for me. Funny.. it made me think that's where THE WATCHER got his avatar name from !

I think these kind of discussions and revelations are far more important to me now than any 'external threat' of war, famine or plague.

Because..." wherever you go... there you are !" Who said that ???? Was it me ?? lol
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:57 PM   #631
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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With respect to you Michael C
Because I have no knowledge of the bible at a scholars level some of what you say goes over my head its in a language unknown to me and possibly many others..
First of all, thanks so much for the response.

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I hope you feel at "home" here Michael, your contributions are welcome even if I dont understand some of what you share, I feel the essence of it.
I sincerely appreciate this.

You have no idea how many discussion groups I have been banned from for bringing up 'verboten' subjects:

From a Muslim discussion group--the Wake-up Project Forum--because I mentioned that Mohammed taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

From the "creationandevolution" discussion group because I addressed the issue of assuming that the consciousness of the 'thinker' is the end-point in human 'evolution'.*

And probably dozens of my notes and replies have been censored by the JCS-Online (Journal of Consciousness Studies) 'discussion' group for challenging the existence of the 'mind'; which is similar to banning Lavoisier from a chemistry discussion group because he challenged the theory of "phlogiston"; or Michelson and Morley from a physics discussion group because they challenged the theory of the "ether".

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Many ways of verbalizing the truth. I have no doubt your spiritual experiences are true Michael.
I realize that my language is highly specialized.

It is directed at, specifically, the highly intellectualized population; the theologians and the scientists of consciousness who understand precisely what I am doing: I am challenging their fundamental assumptions and saying that their assumptions (and dualistic consciousness)are the very source of conflict and violence.

Jesus once said "Be as wise as serpents, but as gentle as doves."

I see a lot of people who have the "gentle as doves" aspect down pat.

Hopefully, I can help them develop the "wise as serpents" aspect.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

*http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html

Last edited by 4Q529; 03-03-2010 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:38 PM   #632
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I am happy you feel at home here Michael, I hope every one who visits / post feels welome, though I am well aware that not everyone will relate to what is posted.
My first "spiritual experience" which I posted earlier, was as a 4 year old.. I had vivid dreams, awake or asleep in bed, eyes closed eyes open no escape was possible. Chariots of fire, dark angels, white angels,fighting in the sky. I was in teror. My parents were so concerned they thought of getting a child psychiatrist. The dreams left as suddenly as they came due to my first real prayer to God.
I was a very sensitive child and never felt that I belonged here, I was some how different from my peers. I hand never heard of Armageddon, how could I possibly have known what I was seeing, as real as is possible to be real.

I have no explanation and I dont need to know.
I believe in the power of God.
I believe we are on the verge of a massive transformation of consciousness.
I believe all will be well.
I know I am looked after, my very life proves that for me.

With love Chris
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Old 03-03-2010, 03:26 PM   #633
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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(As Krishnamurti observed, thought is time and thought is fear.)

For me, the importance of the video was in describing the experience of consciousness I have had for some 30 years. That is the experience of consciousness of someone who has received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the Memory of Creation.

So, for me, the question is no longer the reality of that dimension of consciousness.

My question is why is this understanding of consciousness not more widely known?

And that is my understanding of the War of the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness.

Specifically who is it that is preventing this understanding of consciousness from being more widely known?


Michael Cecil (4Q529)
I understand your concern Michael and it is a valid one.
Ultimately beyond the sons of Light and those of darkness, as all stems from consciousness in the first place I would say that it is consciousness itself playing tricks with itself stepping from all knowing to clouded knowingness as a path to follow to get back to itself.

Love from me
mudra
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:39 PM   #634
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I understand your concern Michael and it is a valid one.
Ultimately beyond the sons of Light and those of darkness, as all stems from consciousness in the first place I would say that it is consciousness itself playing tricks with itself stepping from all knowing to clouded knowingness as a path to follow to get back to itself.

Love from me
mudra
Great to see you posting here regularly Mudra.

Yognanda said words to the effect that the darkness comes from the same place as the light which might be concordant with what you are saying here.

There is so much in the most ancient teachings from the Vedas etc that I dont really understand..
Idras dream, conscious at play, the in breath and the out breath off God.
God may = Generatiion, Order, Disolution.
God breaths out and the cosmos is formed. God breaths in and everything comes back to source.
We are awareness through out it all. The promise is eternal life and thats what we are.
Life it Self.
Anyway it is as it is. Creation evolving moment by moment.
I seem to reading some where that the universe pulses in an out of existence
every milli second.
So much unknown but in a way for me and with respect its a "So what!!!"
I just enjoy the cosmic dance to the best of my ability.

Chris
.
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Old 03-03-2010, 04:51 PM   #635
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Yognanda said words to the effect that the darkness comes from the same place as the light
...

As I see it, One is Light.

The differentiation into Duality is Darkness.

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I seem to reading some where that the universe pulses in an out of existence
every milli second.
Precisely.

And so does the dualistic consciousness of the "self"; which is the reason for the emergence of the consciousness of the 'thinker': to maintain the temporal continuity of the consciousness of the "self".

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:59 PM   #636
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Love Always
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:46 PM   #637
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Love Always
mudra
Have to say that I consider this video to be much worse than the previous video you provided.

My two chief disagreements are the phrases "one with the Universal Mind" and the "eyes of God".

Words are critically important here.

There is no such thing as any "universal mind". That is the 'thinker' speaking with the voice of the "dragon", trying to apprehend Truth through thought. All of that is dualistic. Better not to say anything at all than to perpetuate and intensify the duality.

But the phrase "the eyes of God" is orders of magnitude beyond that; perhaps demonstrating one of the fundamental differences between the Revelations of the monotheistic religions and the Eastern esoteric tradition.

The most that can be said is that this is a dimension of conciousness beyond the "self" and the 'thinker'; but, to pull into this the thought or image of "the eyes of God" is for the "self"/'thinker' to create God in its own image; whereas the Truth of the matter is that it is the reverse that has occurred: Man has been Created in the image of God.

In other words, according to the Revelations of the monotheistic religions--specifically, the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection"--God is beyond the consciousness that is beyond the consciousness of the "self" and the 'thinker'.

The danger of asserting that it is possible to attain a 'God' consciousness is in the idolatrization of the "Self" as God.

And the evidence for the danger in asserting this is that it was the idolatrization of Jesus as God which led very directly to the slaughter of millions of Jews during the Holocaust.

And, as stated in the Koran, "Idolatry is worse than bloodshed."

Why?

Because bloodshed is a consequence of idolatry--worshiping either the "self" or the 'thinker' as God; which, of course, is what is being done by the Jewish, Christian and Muslim religious 'authorities' at this very moment as a consequence of the dualistic doctrines they teach originating in thought.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://science-of-consciousness.blogspot.com/

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:20 PM   #638
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Thank you for starting this thread and thank you everyone who has come here and expressed their sincerity to raise awareness above awareness of ego.

I notice a big shift in myself when I stop the discussion and intellectualization and actually take my ego into a clearing session. Boy, that is another whole ball of wax. Kind of what livingness does to test one's vaunted words against real responses, but all within a 1.5 hour timeframe.

Tears, justifications, angry comments, confessions of hidden thoughts -- Ego was being thoroughly routed, but on a gradient, out of kindness to this sensitive loving being. "Scan the incident from the viewpoint of how you caused stress to others". Gulp. If it were not being done on such a forgiving gradient I would not have let anyone have me approach my ego to this extent.

At the same time, during this 1.5 hours of insightful looking, I also saw that it is planet-wide, mostly expressed as feeling sorry for self and others. David Hawkins said one of the biggest issues on this planet is self-pity, which I see as inverse of ego drives.

Honestly, I was not looking forward to tomorrow's session but for the faith and love of one human being: Joyful co-existence is my prize for dying the small death.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:30 PM   #639
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And, as stated in the Koran, "Idolatry is worse than bloodshed."

what is even worse than Idolatry

Ignorance


when ignoramuses occupy the most seats of power

then the world whirlwinds into chaos


mistakes are man-made
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:37 PM   #640
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Michael Cecil ,

Enlightment is an experience that is taking place beyond words.
We only have language to describe something that can't be described.
Wether called Buddhahood , or Godlike nature , Christ Consciousness , Selfrealization or else .
the words used are just pale and limiting reflections of something that can only be pointed to.
And you are right the attachment to terms have only lead to battles while missing the point.

Love Always
mudra
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:55 PM   #641
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In some spiritual teachings, Power is spoken of as being a divine quality, a divine flame.

The word power may have a scary connotation to spiritual people, something sometimes we may feel we may have to shy away from very much.

Yet look at our world. Who is running our governments, our media, our schools, our health care, our food supplies, our economies?

Who is running them? Why, of course it is currently the most egotistical, the most self centered the ones who see themselves as very separate from the whole.

Now how did this happen? Is this the way God created it?

Or is possible, that co-creators, spiritual people, were so put down in this world, were so turned upside down in this world, that they simply gave up. They simply gave up Being, and they gave it away, they gave the world away to the most egotistical.

Consider that spiritual people, people who have worked on their egos and are surrendered or surrendering them, getting involved in all levels of government, media, education, business, food production and shining the Light of God that resides within us on the darkness of our world is truly the only way that humanity will move forward.

For me, it's certainly correct to say that being egoless doesn't mean being powerless. Imagine leadership in our world that had discernment of the Christ consciousness and was 100% focused on helping raise up creation for All Life rather than for their separate self. To me this is the Way forward.

For me, balance is key, Spirituality does not have to be about separating our self from the world, rather it can be about Being in the world, but not of it. Meaning being above the level of consciousness of duality, yet being an open door from heaven above, BEing an open door for solutions from the Divine within us.

For me, there is more to life than achieving some state of bliss, rather, it's about helping raise up the matter sphere, and my brothers and sisters of Earth, from the illusions of suffering and back into the abundant Way of Being where we clearly see we are interconnected with each other and God.

To me, this is True Freedom.

For me, surrendering the ego on the altar of God within my Heart is about Service. Service as a Co-creator to God's creation which is Love and very very special indeed.

Espavo ~ Means thank you for taking back your Power by connecting to your own God source within you and awakening to your True identity in Oneness with the Divine within.

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Old 03-03-2010, 08:56 PM   #642
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I must admit I get confused by the term God realized and even to a lesser degree enlightenment.

Im comfortable with being a wave of the Divine ocean and simply I see it that the wave can say honestly that it is one with the ocean but is not the ocean, I can see that it is ok for the ocean to say it is every wave of the ocean.
I accept that enlightenment is removal of ignorance -- all of it.

I find it a little hard to understand though I dont doubt Hawkins when he says. "Only God walks through the final door of enlightenment."

He is also saying that that level of enlightenment occurs when all that is not God is removed.

He is not claiming to be Ultimate God (My way of expressing) and he is devoted to God.
Every lecture starts and ends Gloria in Excelsis Deo ( Glory to God in the highest?)
That seems to be dualistic but I feel it isent.
So I would appreciate clarification on these points , also Jesus saying " You are Gods etc"

Chris
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:05 PM   #643
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You have to be quite careful here not to be distracted from the fundamental issue, which is maintaining a consciousness independent of the consciousness of the 'thinker'.

The questions "Where do thoughts come from?" and "Have they always existed?" are questions of a 'thinker' that is trying to seduce you back into the realm of thought. So, there is no real benefit in pursuing such questions.

What is much more important is that thought itself is time, as has been observed by Krishnamurti.

And what is the purpose or function of time?

To preserve the spatiality of the consciousness of the "self" which originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection.

In other words, the "serpent" of Genesis and the "dragon" of the Revelation of John symbolize the duality created by the 'movement' of self-reflection; the "beast of the sea" is the spatiality of the "self"; and the "beast of the earth" is the efforts of thought and the 'thinker' to maintain the temporal continuity of the spatiality of the "self".

And all of this is the very origin and manifestation of conflict and violence.

Michael Cecil (4Q529)

http://after-the-false-peace.blogspot.com/

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Resour...ts/4Q529!.html
That is why the philosophical assertion " I think therefore I am" is incorrect.

Love,

Kriya
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:26 PM   #644
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That is why the philosophical assertion " I think therefore I am" is incorrect.

Love,

Kriya

Hi Kriya
good to see you.
Both my favorite teachers say it is back to front. "I am therfore I think" then promptly disswade you from the notion that you are the thinker.
Anything that comes and goes is not what you are.
Anything experienced therefore is not you.
If thought were you, you could easily stop them.
Your body is not you, try stopping breathing and see what happens.
Interestingly when you have been siting with several people silently for few moments note that the breath synchronizes, all breath in and out at the same moment.
Namaste
Chris
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:59 PM   #645
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I must admit I get confused by the term God realized and even to a lesser degree enlightenment.

Chris
Imo and hoping without offending any one by lack of a better means we have given God a name when he/it actually does'nt have or even need one.
Pure and all encompassing Consciousness can't be defined within the bounderies of our minds.
We can however make the experience of it through our heart...pure Love ...our essence.

Love Always
mudra
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:33 PM   #646
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From the dawn of mankind dark force has been steadily feeding us with ego so that we move away and more away from God.
As Mudra said it here, we can not put God in our box of thinking. We need to humble ourself in order to grow and be.

The more ego we have - the more we are away of truth, light,wisdom,love-God.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:50 PM   #647
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Both my favorite teachers say it is back to front. "I am therfore I think" then promptly disswade you from the notion that you are the thinker.
Anything that comes and goes is not what you are.
Anything experienced therefore is not you.
If thought were you, you could easily stop them.
Your body is not you, try stopping breathing and see what happens.
hey grey i have some questions on this, what of us doesn't come and go (i assume you mean change)? is anything constant about us? also what would you say gets incarnated from life to life?
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:01 AM   #648
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From the dawn of mankind dark force has been steadily feeding us with ego so that we move away and more away from God.
As Mudra said it here, we can not put God in our box of thinking. We need to humble ourself in order to grow and be.

The more ego we have - the more we are away of truth, light,wisdom,love-God.
Thanks Beren
You keep me on track.

There is Power, which is God and there is force which is ego.
Title of Dr H book. "Power versus Force"

Force is egoic self will not in alignment with the will of God.
When will is aligned with God all that is good flows through you. The great masterpieces be it music art anything are inspired work -- inspired means in -spirit.

A long time ago I was playing on stage and I was really impressed with my playing, then I realized that it was happening by itself without any conscious effort, I wasn't into God at that time and the thought came.
Am I playing this bass guitar or is it playing me?
I was having a peak experience.
I was in an observing thoughtless consciousness, thoroughly enjoying the moment without the need to take over the playing of my instrument it was being played better than I ever I could, I just stayed out of the way.
Friends remarked how well I played that night, I couldn't tell them why the would have thought I was crazy.
So God is creating through your God given talents.

Hawkins is being very creative in helping solve this world problems.

Surrender to the will of God and then see what happens.

Chris
Namaste
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:14 AM   #649
greybeard
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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Originally Posted by carriblu View Post
hey grey i have some questions on this, what of us doesn't come and go (i assume you mean change)? is anything constant about us? also what would you say gets incarnated from life to life?
Hi Cariblu.
Please call me Chris. (Grey is a bit alien to me )
As I understand it Consciousness is becoming aware of itself and returning home.
What looks through your eyes is the same awareness that existed before birth and will after the body falls away.
Regardless of your age you feel the same, not talking about emotions.
I am surprised when I look in the mirror, I look the age of my body but I certainly dont feel any particular age. I am timeless and immortal.
Its the same life going through a series of experiences in a different body.
Its like going to the pictures, a different film every visit, but its the same observer.
You could sy that you are "The observer witness" labels are just that. You are what you are.
Hope this is helpfull.
Chris
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Old 03-04-2010, 11:54 AM   #650
mudra
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Hi Cariblu.
Please call me Chris. (Grey is a bit alien to me )


Love Always
mudra
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