The ego what is it? How to transcend?

[greybeard]

Sai Baba said "Its good to be born into a religion, bad to die in one"
I was baptized Catholic but as stated much earlier I escaped pre-school.

Krisha said (I cant find the exact quote posted earlier on the forum.)
"Even those who are mislead and head in the wrong direction are mine"
Anyone who truly loves God is in a good place regardless of which religion they are in or not in.
Back to Beren saying "Love love and then see what happens."

We don't know whats going to happen.

I am aware that there is potential for world war three, if that happens the next war will be fought with bows and arrows. I don't even like to go there.
Its a hypothetical.
Putting energy to that thought just adds to the potential for it to happen in my opinion.
Better to look for peacful and harmonious world.
The Nexus thread on this forum is filled with people actively doing this.

Anti war parades for example are expressing anger and frustration and are very violent affairs.
Mahatma Gandhi liberated India without firing a single shot, that is the power of high spiritual energy.
Mother Teresa said you might find me at a peace rally but not at an ant-war one.
Attacking violence is still attacking, its a similar energy.
Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

I cant debate the meaning of text from the bible as I have not studied in any depth.
The first two commandments say it all for me.

Im just letting right brain write.

With love to all who contribute here.
Chris

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by greybeard

We don't know whats going to happen.

In reality, Sir, you can speak only for yourself.

The use of the word "we" in such situations is a (probably) unconscious claim of Omniscience. You can say what you don't know; but you cannot claim to know that there is not one person on the face of the earth who knows what is going to happen. That would mean that you are claiming to be God Himself.

You have no way of knowing what I know about what is going to happen or that I even know it.

Originally Posted by greybeard

I am aware that there is potential for world war three, if that happens the next war will be fought with bows and arrows. I don't even like to go there. Its a hypothetical.

It may very well be a hypothetical for you, Sir.

But that does not mean that it is hypothetical for everyone.

That is what a Prophecy is.

Originally Posted by greybeard

Putting energy to that thought just adds to the potential for it to happen in my opinion.

On the other hand, if David Bowman in 2001--A Space Odyssey simply ignores the fact that the HAL 9000 computer has killed all the other members of the crew, he will be the next victim.

Originally Posted by greybeard

Attacking violence is still attacking, its a similar energy.

Jesus attacked the Pharisees and Sadducees for their violations of the Law and their contradictions of Revealed Truth.

There is simply no other word for it, if you read the Gospels carefully.

Originally Posted by greybeard

Those who live by the sword die by the sword.

It is, of course, quite disgusting when someone attacks Jesus and then quotes Jesus to support such an attack.

Attacking lies through Truth is not "living by the sword".

"Living by the sword" is lying, censoring the Truth, and murdering those who contradict you.

[greybeard]

4q529
I stand corrected.
My understanding of the word hypothetical is that it has not happened yet, therefore not a factual reality. I not saying the receiving of prophesy is not a fact, it just hasn't happened as yet in everyone else's reality.
Some prophesies come into being some do not.
Anyway I don't pretend to be a scholar so I cant debate the bible or its meaning with you.
I really don't mind.
Regards
Chris

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by greybeard

4q529 if you can accept that KM was enlightened...

Don't mean to be offensive here, Sir.

But I don't care if he was or not.

It is of absolutely no interest to me whatsoever.

You could not pay me to read something that he wrote.

The entire concept of "enlightenment" has no value for me whatsoever. All discussion over whether or how this or that person is or is not or can or cannot be or become "enlightened" is, to me, a fundamental distraction from doing anything real in diminishing violence and conflict.

Originally Posted by greybeard

Those who are Truth have to step down to our level of vibration and understanding to encourage us and point the way as Jesus did.
They do not experience the world the way we do at all.

Sir, you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of how I experience the world.

None.

If you want to speak for yourself, feel free.

But you cannot speak for me.

Originally Posted by greybeard

He, Jesus, said "I am the way"

What Jesus said is "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

The Truth conveyed by merely the phonetic tones of those words (the meaning of which is Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man", the which is Revealed through the Revelation of the "resurrection") can be translated as: I am the Revelation of the "resurrection"; I am the Vision of the "Son of man"; I am the Law."

What was left unsaid is that both the Revelation of the "resurrection" and the Vision of the "Son of man" utterly consume the "I"--something that you have no Knowledge of.

[HORIZONS]

Originally Posted by 4Q529

What Jesus said is "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life."

The Truth conveyed by merely the phonetic tones of those words (the meaning of which is Revealed through the Vision of the "Son of man", the which is Revealed through the Revelation of the "resurrection") can be translated as: I am the Revelation of the "resurrection"; I am the Vision of the "Son of man"; I am the Law."

What was left unsaid is that both the Revelation of the "resurrection" and the Vision of the "Son of man" utterly consume the "I"--something that you have no Knowledge of.

Interesting thought: Expand on it some...

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by HORIZONS

Interesting thought: Expand on it some...

Well, first I have to consider whether providing such an explanation would come under the category of "self-promotion".

What do you 'think'?

[HORIZONS]

Originally Posted by 4Q529

Well, first I have to consider whether providing such an explanation would come under the category of "self-promotion".

What do you 'think'?

Well, I see the mission of Jesus as the death of the egoic state, the rebirth of the True state and the ascension into the fullness of this. This thread is about our views on the ego and how to transcend it - I think this can be explained in the work of the Christ. How about you?

[greybeard]

4q529
With respect.
There is a disclaimer that I put on most posts that I dont know and its just my point of view.
Enlightenment is just a word and words are not it.
I posted some where else Dr Hawkins statement that only God passes through the final door
There is no David Hawkins left.
Please tell me why I should believe what you say more than what passes through the form that was Dr Hawkins I am not disbelieving you or Dr Hawkins.

I am not educated, being dyslexic, I left school at the age of fifteen with out even standard grade. My knowledge therefore of the bible is limited to the religious instruction I got at school then which was non-denominational and is a distant memory.
I virtually taught myself to read and later found the joy of reading spiritual text from Sri Ramana Yogananda, Ramesh Balsekar, then recently Eckhart Tolle and currently Dr David Hawkins, so I take your word for it that you are very knowledgeable regarding the word of Jesus and the essence of it. Never the less the God of my understanding save me from suicidal alcoholism at the age of 25. I have been on the spiritual path in my own way ever since and have experienced the Love of God descending on me and leaving me in an incoherent state of bliss for two days, where all I could see and experience was pure love.
So that where I am personally coming from.

Chris
Namaste

[HORIZONS]

Originally Posted by greybeard

4q529
With respect.
There is a disclaimer that I put on most posts that I dont know and its just my point of view.
Enlightenment is just a word and words are not it.
I posted some where else Dr Hawkins statement that only God passes through the final door
There is no David Hawkins left.
Please tell me why I should believe what you say more than what passes through the form that was Dr Hawkins I am not disbelieving you or Dr Hawkins.

I am not educated, being dyslexic, I left school at the age of fifteen with out even standard grade. My knowledge therefore of the bible is limited to the religious instruction I got at school then which was non-denominational and is a distant memory.
I virtually taught myself to read and later found the joy of reading spiritual text from Sri Ramana Yogananda, Ramesh Balsekar, then recently Eckhart Tolle and currently Dr David Hawkins, so I take your word for it that you are very knowledgeable regarding the word of Jesus and the essence of it. Never the less the God of my understanding save me from suicidal alcoholism at the age of 25. I have been on the spiritual path in my own way ever since and have experienced the Love of God descending on me and leaving me in an incoherent state of bliss for two days, where all I could see and experience was pure love.
So that where I am personally coming from.

Chris
Namaste

Namaste to you, for experience speaks truer and louder then beLIEfs.

[greybeard]

Originally Posted by HORIZONS

Namaste to you, for experience speaks truer and louder then beLIEfs.

And to you HORIZON's
Loud drummer
This loud bass player says.
One of my best friends Uffe looked at me one day and said "Your just a child chris"
That made me very happy.

I agree with your take on the message of Christ on the cross.

Jesus taught to simple people, You have to be as a child etc

Chris
Namaste

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by truthseekerdan

The matter of fact is that the ego is our worst enemy (adversary).

I, us, we have to fight the ego (duality), every moment of spiritual growth.

fight a phantom

and prepare to hit air

it is not there


it is nonexistent


spiritual growth

is not about

fighting nothing

but

loving everything

[annemirri]

a.

[greybeard]

Originally Posted by annemirri

The key to enlightenment, " to transcend ego" is

not to take oneself too seriously, or anyone else, not to be too adult,

to have childlike wonder, joy, bliss, carefree being,

to take things lightly, as miracles happen in light..

be genuine, true to yourself,

love unconditionally yourself and others,

expect nothing, and give all you have...

keep things simple...nothing is fixed, or last forever,
even the truths are changing...

a.

Hi annemirri my new scorpio friend.
Yes so true, and dance and sing , which I do.
Chris
Namaste

[14 Chakras]

If you take an honest look, you will see very clearly that those who achieve enlightenment, while they may at times have similar teachings, are very different Beings.

They do not approach Life exactly the same way, they express differently and they are unique. For me, it is simply not realistic to say they are the same. They are not the same. They are unique. Moreso even than most egos, which is why many are famous in certain circles. They are interesting, they have Light, they BE.

From my perspective, enlightenment is not about achieving sameness. It's about realizing we're One. That we are an individualization of the infinite and Being that individualization, Being MORE.

Oneness is reality. When the seperate self dies, we are no longer caught in comparisons, in the thinker. However, do we disapear? Can an enlightened sage himself create a new Universe and sustain eternally? No. They are not the fullness of the creator, they are a Free Willed individualization of infinity, as are you and me, they just see that we're one, whereas the human ego tries to convince us that we are separate. That's the difference between enlightened Being and ego non-being.

Each of us has a Divine Flame that is Unique in the mind of God. We have been given the gift of Free Will. This was not a mistake from God. This is not something God will take away. This is permanent. Free Will. Free Will to express our own unique talents below and Be all that we are Above ~ not the 'same' being, but a unique being with unique talents and viewpoints that is here to share them and help raise up creation here Now.

It is true, there are infinite Ways of enlightenment. Truth is spherical, non-linear. Infinity does not have a top end. It's infinite. Everything can grow infinitely. Up to infinity? No. There is no top end to infinity.

Putting enlightenment on a linear scale to me implies that consciousness is linear. I do not believe this is the case. Consciousness is spherical and it happens in the Now. There are no comparisons in infinity, only More.

Is there a 'scale' of highest that someone can be in a body. If there is such an upper limit, then note well that it is transcended every Now. Jesus said "You will do the works that I do, only greater works than these you will do."

Perhaps, the game of Life, is Life itSelf rather than achieving a static state. Perhaps, it's always about Being More, rather than disappearing, or achieving the 'most' that the 'rules' allow to achieve. Perhaps the 'rules' are that we are here to transcend, indefinitely, forever More.

Whatever One has done before, will be surpassed by those who choose to Be Now. Whatever comes Now, will be surpassed in a future Now. Otherwise, we're not in the river of Life, we're in the ego that seeks stability in non-change. Change is Life, Being MORE. Non-change is death. Non-life.

Perfection only happens Now. Being Now. The present moment, that's perfect. There's no end state to perfection. Only Life, only Being. Change is reality. Change of transcending our current sense of identity forever More.

I suggest seek God in Being More Now, rather than in disappearing into a static state of 'bliss'.

We are here Now to Be Masters, to finally transcend the slave consciousness.

To me, to say we are not co-creators is to not take responsibility for our world. Yet we are co-creators, we've created our own suffering by choosing not to be and letting wolves in sheeps clothing control our world, by being the blind following the blind, and now we will co-create abundance by connecting to our source, our own I AM Presence within and letting it Be the doer without.

[4Q529]

Originally Posted by greybeard

Please tell me why I should believe what you say more than what passes through the form that was Dr Hawkins I am not disbelieving you or Dr Hawkins.

Sir, I am specifically not telling you that you should believe what I say. And I mean this quite seriously.

Belief is thought and thought is dualistic.

For you to believe what I am saying would be worse than not believing what I am saying. In other words, I would prefer that you disbelieve me; and that you choose, rather, to see whether there is any merit in what I am saying. That's all.

Do you see that?

Because you would be holding on to a thought, which is dualistic.

Look at the difference between poetry and the lyrics of songs, as compared to philosophical or religious arguments.

Poetry and song lyrics merely describe what the writer is experiencing. That does not at all involve a question of belief. Either one accepts what the writer is saying or one does not accept it. (I would say that the poem If, by Rudyard Kipling, conveys more through poetry than the greatest psychiatrists of all time. It does not contain even so much as one logical or scientific argument about human consciousness. Yet, the meaning it conveys is quite clear.)

Philosophical and religious arguments, on the other hand, are a function of belief.

Now, why is it that the Revelation of John, being a Revelation, does not contain even so much as one logical argument?

Because it is not of thought or logic.

The meaning of the Revelation of John is conveyed in words which are much closer to poetry or song lyrics than to any philosophical or religious argument.

So, what I have said about those Revelations is also much closer to poetry than to any logical argument.

A poet or a song writer would not ask you whether you believe what he or she has written; but, rather, what is the meaning that those words convey to you. This is a completely different kind of discussion than a philosophical or logical argument. And this kind of thing can also be found in the Gospel of Thomas.

This is also why Jesus could explain his Teaching to fishermen who were not at all educated in the theology of the time. The Teaching strikes at a much deeper level, similar to poetry.

From a wider perspective, my own personal experience has demonstrated the dangers of following a religion of "love". That religion--Christianity--also included the burning of 'witches' and 'heretics', Crusades against Albigensians, Jews and Muslims and all manner of other kinds of evil against other peoples.

Love is something that is much too easily expropriated to the considerations of the "self".

My focus is, instead, upon the very narrow area of Doctrinal Truth.

That is the path that has been chosen for me and that is the Knowledge that I have.

My understanding is that if the issue of Doctrinal Truth is pursued that will result in a decrease in bloodshed and violence.

That is not everyone's path.

But that is my path.

[greybeard]

dear 4q259
Thank you for your answer,
I have stated elsewhere that there is merit in what you are expounding.
Wishing you all the best on your path.
Look forward to any further contributions that you may feel you want to make to this thread.

Chris

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

Perhaps, the game of Life, is Life itSelf rather than achieving a static state. Perhaps, it's always about Being More, rather than disappearing, or achieving the 'most' that the 'rules' allow to achieve. Perhaps the 'rules' are that we are here to transcend, indefinitely, forever More.

this tells me nothing about anything

it's like blob


up up and away lol

where did he go

to forever More

where is it

it is very High

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

I suggest seek God in Being More Now, rather than in disappearing into a static state of 'bliss'.

We are here Now to Be Masters, to finally transcend the slave consciousness.

Being More Now

what does that even mean


I see you want to be a Master

but master of what


what do you want with God

whose pristine state is Bliss

[beren]

Remember why one once good being has fallen?

because of his big


EGO

[greybeard]

Dear 14 Chakras
The map of consciousness is exactly that, as pertaining to this world perception.
I honestly dont do justice to the teaching of DH as he writes about 350 pages per book and there are a few now.
You are just getting snap shots of my understanding or miss-understanding so dont take what I say as verbatim.
Because I am not in the state that Hawkins is in I cant explain it.

I am not in disagreement with anything you say, of course we are capable of more and there will be further adventures and advances in consciousness.
Each state is perfect and complete in itself moment by moment that doesn't mean that there is not more but that is by free will, spiritual intention.

It may be that the reason differences in presentation and personality is due to the culture, era and audience.
Teachers say that the "The Teacher and the Taught are the same" one consciousness.
That there is only one consciousness, Consciousness is not what we are, we are beyond even that. We are awareness being aware of consciousness.

Either Dr David Hawkins is enlightened or he is not. I believe beyond doubt he is.
I went to America to hear him talk at Longbeach California. The lecture "Living the prayer" It was worth it.

The choice is simple. I listen to what flows through his form and that teaching is relevant to me or I chase after this and that for a few more life times.

I am not a follower of any person. I am a follower of Truth as it presents itself to me at a level I am capable of understanding at this moment, at moment it is coming through the form of DH, as said earlier there is no David Hawkins left.
If what comes through his form from non-locality says only God walks through the final door who am i to disagree.

I cant answer deep questions on his behalf I wouldnt even try.
I have the essence of the teaching but expressing it accurately I find difficult.

I am not taking away from your understanding of truth or anyone elses my friend.
I have just found for myself a form of teaching that resonates very strongly with what is inside me.
Typing for me is a one finger job and constant sell check so thats it for now.

With great respect for you and your knowledge !4 Chakras
Good night
Chris
Namaste

[greybeard]

Oh just read Beren and Redezra

I have to agree with both.

Jesus was offered more by the devil. He refused out of humility
The Buddha was beset by demons.

Hawkins was offered power, He was told now that you are beyond personal karma you can do what you want. He said without words "I wouldn't want the responsibility and professed his devotion to God" Karma operates on a non personal basis too, nothing is beyond it

The spiritual ego is very clever, it things it is going to be an enlightened ego, not so.
Only one death to face the death of the nonexistent ego which we are loath to let go.

The lower astral realm hates God hates spiritual progress and is a master at seducing those making spiritual progress. They spin yarns that you can be greater than God, you can claim your power for the good of the human race.
Being greater than your Creator is just not possible to my mind.
They of the lower astral are capable of appearing in any form or guise that may be appealing to you, they give part of the truth to dispel any fear you might have then sell you on power without love, heaven help you if you buy into it.
If you are approached by any out of body entity ask them three times "Are you of Christ consciousness?" They cannot lie bout that
I am just paraphrasing the teaching of DH on the subject, he also says everything, regarding teaching, you need to know is in embodiment or has been. Christ, Budda etc
He goes to great lengths explain the temptations to the unwary.

Anyway thats it.

Namaste Chris

[14 Chakras]

To BE or not to be.

The choice is always ours

[RedeZra]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

If you take an honest look, you will see very clearly that those who achieve enlightenment, while they may at times have similar teachings, are very different Beings.

the path of enlightenment ends in Illumination


the Light the Love the Truth

the Unchanging Trinity

of the Great Changeless


whatever changes

with the seasons and the fashions

the Trinity

Light Love and Truth

God

Changes Not



how would we know about

Illumination

if not for

the Illuminated

trying to teach about That


through one particular bodymind matrix

consisting of a name and a form

together with a unique concoction of qualities

talents temperament impressions and inclinations


the onlooker is the one who differentiates Illumination

[greybeard]

Redezra
you have done it again, saying what I meant to say so eloquently, but couldn't find the words.
Thank you.

The play goes on. time being anyway.
Think Sathya said " Without birth and death I would unemployed"

Without the belief in the ego being real this current play would end.

Must confess I am getting a little weary, waiting on God.
I have had and am having a full and productive life, which I appreciate greatly, yet now I know the little of the little I know, I would be as happy to go home.

Going to bed.
I will probably be born again from the womb of sleep tomorrow.

Surrender, surrender and when I am tired of surrender--- surrender some more to the will of God.
Good night.
Chris

[beren]

Somewhere
like a scene from a memory
there`s a picture of a thousand words...

Let us love ,love and let go our mental wish to describe every bits and pieces of everything...

Then we`ll see door opening into imagination -LIVE-

[14 Chakras]

Originally Posted by RedeZra

the path of enlightenment ends

I suggest this is the great illusion that must be slayed in order to Be.