God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Gabriel, Michael, Amen Ra, Hathor, Abraxasinas, Thubans, - Page 4

orthodoxymoron · 10-07-2009, 04:58 AM

I reverence the Intelligent Designer of This Universe. I do not reverence the God of This World. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of Namaste. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of Seeing Christ in All Persons. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of a Solar System Exorcism. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of Human Sovereignty. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of a Vatican III and a Namaste Mass. We the People of Earth...need to get over our disfunctional relationship with the God of This World...and move on.

RedeZra · 10-07-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

I reverence the Intelligent Designer of This Universe. I do not reverence the God of This World. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of Namaste. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of Seeing Christ in All Persons.

Reverence

of the

Effulgence

within

is

Namaste

this Effulgence within Creation is God whom we Revere in Namaste

and it is but a portion of that Effulgence which is God as the Creator Himself

orthodoxymoron · 10-07-2009, 08:32 PM

RedeZra: All of your posts are publication-quality...whether I agree with them or not. When I read your posts...I picture a very wise monk working in a monastery...tasked with reigning in heretics such as myself!

>>>>>

Check out the following links to the Urantia Book which are relevant to this discussion:

Chapter 53: http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p053.htm
Chapter 54: http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p054.htm

RedeZra · 10-07-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron

RedeZra: All of your posts are publication-quality...whether I agree with them or not. When I read your posts...I picture a very wise monk working in a monastery...tasked with reigning in heretics such as myself!

>>>>>

hehe Im just a voice amongst voices

and inasmuch as I speak

it is only words

that stumbles

from my mouth

orthodoxymoron · 10-08-2009, 04:24 PM

I've been listening to chapters 53 and 54 of the Urantia Book...regarding Lucifer, the Rebellion, and War in Heaven. If there is any truth to this at all...I keep thinking that everyone was partly right and partly wrong...and that one wrong leads to two wrongs leads to three wrongs leads to...

...a huge universal mess.

The key words in all of this are responsibility and freedom. The definitions, applications, implications, and ramifications of these words are enormous. They are a balancing act...without a safety net.

orthodoxymoron · 10-08-2009, 11:30 PM

Could it be that the reptilians and greys were ruling from the shadows even in Heaven...prior to the War in Heaven...and the Fall? Did Lucifer smell a rat...and rebel in the same way that people are currently rebelling against what they perceive as the corrupt PTB? Was Heaven really Heaven...or were the heavenly PTB hiding a very dark secret? Did Lucifer soon learn that he too had to deal with the reptilians and greys? Is this true for all factions in the universe? Is Lucifer a mediator between the reptilians and Earth humans? Is the Pope the visible manifestation of Lucifer...the Vicar of Lucifer? I don't say this as a slam or an attack. I'm just trying to figure out what the hell is going on...and why nothing makes sense. If all of the above is true...could the reptilians and greys get what they want by peacefully coexisting with a sovereign humanity? Reps ruling reps. Greys ruling greys. Humans ruling humans. Wouldn't this be in everyone's best interest? I think it would.

I'm not sure what the details are...but I see huge problems involving responsibility, freedom, power, government, reptilians, greys, and humans...going back billions of years. Why can't a rational interrelationship be established between these seven words? Why is this so hard? Why does everything have to be so stupid?

Initiate · 10-09-2009, 12:35 AM

Lucifer has gone. He has been unmade of his own choosing.

See http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...3&postcount=54 and http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...0&postcount=53

"Now what I find interesting is that the Urantia books were written just before I was born. What has happened since has changed some what as the players have also changed in their respective roles. What happened to Lucifer? The key point here is that what ever became of Lucifer has happened in our life time. That should give it some new meaning as to the present. Divine history happened and you won't find it in the bible or the Urantia books because this has happened in the last 15 years or so. Think about that. The ramifications of what that means in our now. I don't know the exact date as maybe someone who is more adept at researching might find that exact date. To me it isn't that detrimental plus or minus a few years. But it has happened in my life time. But also at a cost. A cost to the isness as one who was once considered and named so eloquently is now gone forever. Another took his place and I haven't read the Urantia book completely as I am way behind on the stack of reading that I have already but what I can gather it looks like an interesting twist in our time. All of this history from the very beginning happened because there was this self entitled attitude that chose to abuse the Free Agency Gift that our Creator provided. Lucifer was presented with a choice. Imagine after all the evil he had caused, the Creator still had the compassion to allow Lucifer a choice. When Lucifer came to his senses as to what he had done, he basically couldn't face himself. So he asked the Creator to un create him and recycle his energy back into the isness. That is what basically happened.
"

"The system circuits will not be reinstated as long as Lucifer lives. It is believed that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have already done so. The universe awaits the Uversa decree that will deprive these rebels of personality existence.' " And from what has been said at other threads here at Avalon the Crystal Circuits have been activated.

The Devil has a new name "Caligastia." see http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper53.html. Urantia is what the off worlders call our planet. The Urantia Book was gifted in 1955 by what I believe to be those that guide us unseen or unnoticed. Those that have an edict to support us in our uplifting.

orthodoxymoron · 10-09-2009, 06:24 AM

How do we really know that Lucifer is gone? I doubt this. There may be more than one 'mediator' or 'administrator' between the Dracs and Humans. I keep hoping that Lucifer has (or will) switch sides and do the right thing for the human race. I know I'm naive...but I'm happier that way.

Initiate · 10-09-2009, 08:23 AM

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/lucif...rt-3-poem.html

One Angel stood up,
With a sad shining face,
An said " Will Lucifer
Be put back in Your grace?"
God looked up at the Angel,
And replied " As far as I know,
Lucifer is dead,
And the Devil lives down below.
He deserves not Lucifers' name,
For Lucifer was good,
The Devil is Evil,
And he may do as he would.
He wanted to rule man,
So now what he must do,
Is tempt them to Evil,
to let me find the Good."
As God made his decree,
The Devils' wings were chaffed,
They were burnt of all feathers,
It charred his beautiful face.
Disfigured and ugly,
Just like the Soul inside,
He knew he made a mistake,
For his name was full of Pride.
The Angels around him,
They were disfigured as well,
But Lucifer was looking
At this place known as Hell.
He would rule the Damned,
For that was what he could do
So Lucifer now is trying
To tempt the Darkness out of you.

orthodoxymoron · 10-09-2009, 06:05 PM

The following section of the Urantia Book really got my attention:

054:1 TRUE AND FALSE LIBERTY http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p054.htm

54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.
54:1.2 True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.
54:1.3 Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.
54:1.4 Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.
54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.
54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.
54:1.7 Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation.
54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.
54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.
54:1.10 Evolutionary man may have to contend for his material liberties with tyrants and oppressors on a world of sin and iniquity or during the early times of a primitive evolving sphere, but not so on the morontia worlds or on the spirit spheres. War is the heritage of early evolutionary man, but on worlds of normal advancing civilization physical combat as a technique of adjusting racial misunderstandings has long since fallen into disrepute.

orthodoxymoron · 10-09-2009, 11:28 PM

Can anyone tell me what's with the Draconians? What exactly is their problem? What the hell do they want with us? What would it take to convince them to leave us alone? If they backed-off...would those who are between them and the average person...back-off as well? Are there dark beings who give the Dracs orders? Why can't the whole G** D*** Universe make Constitutional Responsible Freedom the Modus Operandi? There seems to be an infinite amount of power struggling, arrogant heirarchies, advanced technology, horrible cruelty, etc, etc. Most people try to do the right thing and try to be happy...but it seems that unseen forces are opposing them every step of the way...and then accusing the well meaning people of being stupid sinners, etc, etc. Are we in the middle of a hopeless situation...or what? Do all theocracies...throughout the universe...need to be abolished? Does the Universal Church need to be disbanded? Does absolute power corrupt even the most advanced beings...absolutely? I continue to think that we don't need better rulers...we need no rulers. The beings of the universe need to rule themselves under the banner and discipline of Constitutional Responsible Freedom. Could these three words be a New Trinity? I'm thrashing about in a blasphemous existential quagmire of concupiscence...which is undoubtedly anathema. I don't know what the hell that means...but it sounds cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LCWK...relatedYouTube - Aliens - 5 - The Draco Reptilian

orthodoxymoron · 10-20-2009, 02:45 AM

I'm feeling really close to the truth...yet really far away. I'm thinking that Sirius is at the center of everything...yet I'm not sure exactly how.

Could it be that the God of This World is a Draconian-possessed androgynous black human alien from Sirius who heads Giza Intelligence, the Secret Space Program, and the Deep Underground Military Bases...and who is the real Black Pope? Could the Ark of the Covenant be the UFO which brought us here from Sirius along with technology obtained from Draconian-demons in exchange for allowing the Draconians to possess the elite-humans? Is this solar system really part of the Siran solar system? Is our sun really Sirius C? Is the ancient depiction of three suns really Sirius A, Sirius B, and Sirius C? Are the tall greys from Sirius, really just human beings? Did we all come from Sirius? Is there a stargate between this solar system and Sirius? Is all of the cr@p we have been in for millions of years really a Sirian civil war? Are we all different factions of Sirians? Would my pet project of The United States of the Solar System really have to apply to Sirius as well? Is Sirius the All Seeing Eye at the top of the pyramid? Is Sunday really Sun God Day? Is this sun really Sirius? Is the Roman Catholic Church all about Sirius? Are the Masons all about Sirius? Are the occultists all about Sirius? Is the layout of Washington D.C. all about Sirius? Is the Sirian Theocratic System really the Universal Church aka The Holy Roman Empire aka the New World Order?

How answerest thou...SaLuSa?

orthodoxymoron · 10-23-2009, 05:18 AM

Here is something relevant to this thread that I posted on another thread:

The Aldebarans are supposedly renegade Pleiadians. Did they thumb their noses at the Pleiadian Powers That Be...and make deals with the Devil aka Draconians...to obtain Technology and Spiritual Power? Was the Pleiades really Heaven? Was the Person In Charge really God. Was Lucifer a Pleiadian who tried to get a better deal by dealing with the Dracs? Did this result in the famous War in Heaven? Did Lucifer drag one third of the Pleiadians to Aldebaran...then to Sirius...and finally to Earth? Are we all Fallen Angels? Is this why Lucifer is the God of This World? Some say Lucifer is no more...but I doubt this. Is Aldebaran still renegade Pleiadian presently? Is Sirius A and Arcturus completely unfallen Pleiadian presently? Is Sirius B and Earth in Sirius trouble? Is a final battle brewing to settle this thing once and for all?

Or...is the whole Universe under Draconian control...including the Pleiades? Did the God in the Pleiades keep this a secret to make a bad situation seem like Heaven? Did Lucifer smell a rat...and try to fight fire with fire...hoping to get technology and spirituality from the Dracs...and then turn on them? Could the final phase of this be happening presently? Is that what's brewing? Is this 'The Great Work'? Are Sirius B and Earth engaged in a rebellion against the Dracs which must be crushed? Will the Empire strike back? Does Sirius B and our Sun contain Planets in Rebellion? Do they threaten the Draconian Universal Church Theocracy? Did Lucifer mean well...but did he or she bite off more than they could chew...and go insane? I keep thinking that Lucifer is like Colonel Kurz in 'Apocalypse Now'. If Constitutional Responsible Freedom really catches fire...will this be the end of Draconian Universal Domination? I really and truly don't know. All of the above could be complete BS.

I don't know who the good-guys and who the bad-guys are anymore. Do you?

orthodoxymoron · 10-28-2009, 04:33 PM

Perhaps the deception continues after we die. I don't believe in a literal heaven or hell...but who knows what we may experience or be confronted with when we die. I just think we should reasonably question everything. And I mean everything.

There is a lot of good...and a lot of love. But I'm seeing a lot of lies glossing over what's really going on. I'm presently speculating that there has been (and continues to be) a massive power struggle involving various factions of humans and non-humans. I tend to think that the original genuine Creator God is somehow removed from the picture (no details or proof)...and that to fill the vaccum we have wannabe gods playing god. The bad-guys presently seem to have the upper-hand. I'm thinking we are renegade Pleiadians who jumped out of the frying pan...and into the fire. Perhaps we are seeking freedom in a very tyrannical universe. Perhaps we are a threat to the universal order. I really don't know. A study of true and false freedom is probably a very important study to engage in. There is an excellent treatment of this subject in the Urantia Book (chapter 53 or 54). These chapters are quite interesting. Once again...I don't know what's really true...and what's total bs. I'm just dealing in possibilities and probabilities.

I wonder what it would be like to be hooked up to a black budget virtual reality machine which was connected to a supercomputer containing soul memories. Or could an entity (good or evil) superimpose it's imagination upon our imagination to create a seemingly real life experience. Is this the essense of regression hypnosis? Are people really reliving their past lives...or is this yet another deception? All of this seems to be very tricky. I like to evaluate other people's experiences...rather than seeking exotic experiences and encounters. I tend to think all of this is potentially very dangerous.

I'm still waiting for a somewhat detailed analysis of this thread. We're all so busy...and at first glance...the subject of the thread seems boring. Well...maybe it is boring.

orthodoxymoron · 10-29-2009, 03:00 AM

Here is a comment which I posted on another thread which is relevant to this thread:

I have a fascination regarding cathedrals and pipe-organs. The whole temple and worship concept goes way back into antiquity. Lucifer was supposedly the chief musician in 'heaven'. If 'heaven' is really the Pleiades...perhaps there were cathedrals and pipe organs in the Pleiades...and Lucifer brought the whole theological concept...including temples, cathedrals, pipe-organs, and worship...from the Pleiades to Aldebaran...then to Sirius...and finally to Earth. As above...so below. I guess I'm seeing two rival 'gods' leading a civil war. Are the Annunaki and Dracs mercenary interdimensional warriors and laborers? Was the Pleiadian 'god' instrumental in the destruction of Atlantis? Did the Luciferian 'god' take the Atlantian civilization underground? Is this Giza Intelligence? Are there underground mansions, cathedrals, libraries, and museums...combined with military bases and stargate temples? Does Lucifer (or equivalent) possess the ability to end most life on Earth through 'Earth Changes'? Is alien technology really ancient Pleiadian technology? I'm beginning to think so. The exact composition and motivations of the various secret factions are obviously unknown. My guess is that there may be three major factions...two theocratic (one Pleiadian and one Aldebaran Luciferian)...and one namaste constitutional responsible freedom faction.

Hitler may very well have been a regular visitor to this underground or inner Earth realm. This may also be true for the Popes. I don't know. This is all just wild speculation. But studying the Nazi phenomenon may be the real window into what is going on.

When Henry Kissenger was learning about the 'alien presence' he worked night and day...and wouldn't communicate with anyone...not even his wife. What he was learning must have been devastating. It couldn't have been good. Notice that certain key people, such as Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski (both Jason Scholar study directors)...who presumably know the complete story...quietly direct the Presidents...administration after administration. The Presidents presumably do not know the complete story...with the possible exception of George H.W. Bush.

Once again...I just want the secrecy to end...I want all hard core regressive beings (human and non-human) to leave this solar system...and I want the solar system to be based upon namaste constitutional responsible freedom. That should correct most of the major ills...regardless of who is presently running things or which et's are good or bad. If this works...other star systems might try doing this as well. Is this too much to ask?

Myra · 10-29-2009, 03:19 AM

Fascinating post orthodoxymoron, I haven't the time to read it all now but I will get right back to it. You may be on to something...

orthodoxymoron · 10-29-2009, 03:36 AM

Thank-you Myra. This is mostly speculation. I don't like completely off the wall science fiction. I don't like dry and boring history books. I do like to see and hear what other people are thinking and doing...and then I like to speculate and extrapolate based upon their work. I try to make it clear that these are simply possibilities and probabilities. It's sort of fun...but sort of scary too. Some of this stuff is heavy...and undoubtedly steps on lots and lots of toes...including my own. I feel very uncomfortable with a lot of this. In most cases...I hope I'm wrong.

orthodoxymoron · 10-30-2009, 09:52 PM

I'm still interested in a thoughtful review of this thread! Hope springs eternal!

firefly · 10-31-2009, 07:46 AM

Hi, orthodoxymoron, thank you for submitting some really interesting posts, I do always enjoy reading you and occassionly have a little giggle at the way you explain things. Would love to meet you in person, one day. By the way have you watched the following videos . I was really taken by it and would appreciate your take.

Agape

firefly

orthodoxymoron · 11-14-2009, 01:11 AM

firefly...there were some good thoughts and concepts in the videos. But how do we know this message is from a Pleiadian? But perhaps we're all Pleiadians. I could probably write something...record it...and claim that I was an ET from the Planet BS. A lot of people would probably believe me...but it would be a lie. I just treat all information as possibly true...especially the fringe info. I think that Constructive Competition is a good thing...and that it is essential to a free and open society. Also...a belief system isn't necessarily BS. Preachers and Politicians don't always lie...just most of the time!

I'd still like to hear an evaluation of the first post...positive or negative. Is the God concept a valid and healthy one? Or...is it inherently corrupt and tyrannical? Theological issues are so knee-jerk and emotionally charged...that I guess most people don't want to get involved...unless they have a nit to pick or and axe to grind. I just feel like we're missing the real meat of the subject of our past, present, and future...especially regarding ET's, Gods, Rulers, etc. I suspect that we are going to have to learn the hard way. Jordan Maxwell might be right about the future. I hope not...but I really see what he means.

One other thing...in the following video...which I have previously posted...is there something good and something not so good about each character? What would an ideal human look and act like? Should we strive to be better people...every day and in every way? I'm thinking we need to work toward a Perfected Humanity and a Perfected Solar System. This may be all the God and Heaven we get. I don't mean to be negative or faith-destroying...but I do wish to be honest and realistic. Lies haven't worked for thousands or millions of years. Why should we expect them to work now? I think we need to take off the gloves...and really dig for truth and goodness. I think it's going to take a lot of work and pain. This thread probably ventures where angels fear to tread...but I thought it was necessary. I envisioned extensive discussions...and conflicting concepts...but so far very few people have taken the bait. Perhaps it's just as well. In the video...I'm seeing Reptilian/Human vs Human. Who is Satan...really? Who is Lucifer...really? Who is God...really? Who is Jesus...really? Are they all Pleiadian Human and/or Draconian Reptilian? Think about it. I'm not talking about the Creator/Intelligent Designer who I think was instrumental in our original creation/evolution. I'm talking about the ones we're dealing with here and now...in this Solar System. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTb...next=1YouTube- The Temptation of Jesus by the Devil in the Wilderness

orthodoxymoron · 11-15-2009, 04:00 AM

Were Giza Intelligence the real 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'? Were the World Wars really Zionism vs Teutonic Zionism? Was Indiana Jones an Andromedan Sympathizer? Please, please, please watch these videos repeatedly...then face yourself...and think and think and think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YXw7...elatedYouTube- Raiders of the Lost Ark - Theatrical Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfMwK0kCccIYouTube- Teutonic Zionism

Ravens and Doves · 11-15-2009, 12:51 PM

God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Booda, crishna crackers...

They're a knockie,
You're a knockie
Am a knockie
(wanna cookie?)

UFO, CIA, NRO, MI6, NSA, Leo What's-his-name

(clips of every TV show about every alien and
conspiracy every broadcast)

2012?

2013?

2014?

End of The World?

End of the Moon?

Swamp gas (two cups), weather balloon (one teaspoon), sleep paralysis (one cup, mix well). Disgard after baking and tasting.

Write 10 books... Be interviewed on History Channel.

Kill youself.

Rise from the dead.... write NDE book about not killing one's self (best seller).

Grow a large forehead (easy... loose hair).

Create another Universe to do it all over again.

Post to Project Avalon with the answer the the ultimate question of life the universe and everything (still 42... such big answers don't change too quickly, unless they become religions - then they never change.)

turn off computer.

sleep

paul

orthodoxymoron · 11-15-2009, 03:17 PM

I don't know what you're smoking Paul...but I want some.

Perhaps it's just the smog...or maybe the chem-trails.

Someone please consider seriously commenting on the editorial content of this thread. I am doing some soul-searching regarding 'Lucifer', 'The God of This World', 'Fallen Angels', 'Demons', 'God the Father', 'Jesus', 'Satan', 'The Holy Spirit', 'Namaste', 'Seeing Christ in All Persons', 'The Divinity Within Humanity', etc. Definitions and word-studies are hugely important. I really think that the answers we need will be found in non-traditional, free-thinking theology...which reads more like science-fiction than a typical Sunday sermon.

What if the God who was instrumental in the creation/evolution of human beings (before this Earth even existed) became involved in a war with reptilian beings...and was imprisoned or killed? What if a horrible war of revenge resulted in the near extermination of the reptilian race? What if the souls of these reptilian beings lived on as interdimensional beings known as demons? What if these demons corrupted a Pleiadian Human into creating a Human/Reptilian Theocracy? What if a Human Musician named Lucifer (The Covering Cherub) rebelled against this theocracy...resulting in the 'War in Heaven'? What if Lucifer and a third of the Human 'Angels' were cast out of Heaven (The Pleiades?) and relocated in Aldebaran? What if Lucifer found that he or she had to do business with the Interdimensional Reptilians...resulting in an Aldebaran Theocracy? What if Lucifer and the Fallen Angels eventually ended up on Earth? What if all (or most) of us are these Fallen Angels? What if all of the ancient gods are Luciferian/Draconian or Luciferian/Annunaki? What if Lucifer really meant well and tried to do the right thing...but ended up being as bad or worse than what he or she rebelled against? What if the concept that 'Power Corrupts...and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely' is true...regardless of how well-intentioned or benevolent a being is? What if Jesus was representitive of the good-side of Lucifer...and representative of the original Creator-God...and the Divinity Within Humanity? What if Lucifer is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality...who has been (and continues to be) a mixture of good and evil...and who has been (and continues to be) at least partially insane? What if Lucifer is the author of the words attributed to both God the Father and Jesus...in the Holy Bible...as well as being the one who most people think of as 'The Devil'? But what if 'The Devil' is the Draconian overlord to Lucifer? What if Lucifer: The God of This World answers to Lord Draco (or equivalent)?

Could there be a Theocratic Draconian Faction and a Non-Theocratic Draconian Faction? Could there be a Theocratic Human Faction and a Non-Theocratic Human Faction? Would it be helpful to look at universal history with this as a possibility? Would we discover the above proposition reduced to a Draconian/Human Theocracy vs a Draconian/Human Democracy?

I don't know about all of the above...but sorting this out might be incredibly complex. Many good guys and gals might turn out to be evil. Many bad guys and gals might turn out to be good. The basic concepts of Theology and Governance...Humans and Reptilians...Freedom and Tyranny...etc...should be studied in an open and honest manner. Possible scenarios...possibilities and probabilities...elaborations and extrapolations...etc...may yield many helpful insights. Don't take this post too seriously. It's just preliminary speculation. I don't wish to offend anyone. I mean no harm.

Regardless of the true content of universal history...I continue to be enamored with the concept of Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...as a non-theocratic synthesis of Ethical Spirituality and Minimalist State.

Questions or Comments?

Namaste

orthodoxymoron · 11-17-2009, 11:25 PM

Could it be that Satan and Demons are really Interdimensional Draconian Reptilians who hate Humans? Could it be that God, Lucifer, and Jesus are Pleiadian Humans...and that even Lucifer is a good-guy or good-gal? They could all possibly be good. Could it be that they are all at odds with the Dracs...and that they simply have different philosophies regarding how to deal with them? Do they lead the three or four factions which I suspect are headquartered in underground bases...here and on the Moon? I believe in the literal existence of all of the above. With this in mind...consider the following link regarding God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, etc: http://www.lucifer.com/lucifer.html Do the Dracs control the Vatican...against the will of the Curia and the Pope? Is the term 'Luciferian' really a cover for 'Draconian'? I keep thinking that the Dracs need to be kicked out of our Solar System. I keep thinking that no one should bow down and worship anyone...including worshipping God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, etc. We should simply reverence the Divinity Within Humanity aka The Christlike Holy Spirit. We should see Christ in All Persons. Lucifer...is this correct? I continue to suspect that you would be ok if the Dracs were gone...you retired...and if our Solar System was based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom. I still wish to hear you improvise on the Cavaille-Coll pipe-organ at Saint Sulpice...after this mess is resolved. Lucifer...can you use your Galactic Rolodex to arrange a Solar System Exorcism...and to arrange replacing the U.N. Charter with the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...and have this apply to the entire Solar System? I tend to think that you can. Perhaps you have already called in the strike. If so...thank-you in advance. See you at Saint Sulpice. Namaste Lucifer.

THE eXchanger · 11-18-2009, 01:46 AM

how do you define a human ???

10-07-2009, 04:58 AM	#76
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. I reverence the Intelligent Designer of This Universe. I do not reverence the God of This World. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of Namaste. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of Seeing Christ in All Persons. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of a Solar System Exorcism. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of Human Sovereignty. I am becoming more and more attracted to the concept of a Vatican III and a Namaste Mass. We the People of Earth...need to get over our disfunctional relationship with the God of This World...and move on. Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 12-13-2009 at 05:50 PM.

10-07-2009, 08:32 PM	#78
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. RedeZra: All of your posts are publication-quality...whether I agree with them or not. When I read your posts...I picture a very wise monk working in a monastery...tasked with reigning in heretics such as myself! >>>>> Check out the following links to the Urantia Book which are relevant to this discussion: Chapter 53: http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p053.htm Chapter 54: http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p054.htm

10-08-2009, 04:24 PM	#80
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. I've been listening to chapters 53 and 54 of the Urantia Book...regarding Lucifer, the Rebellion, and War in Heaven. If there is any truth to this at all...I keep thinking that everyone was partly right and partly wrong...and that one wrong leads to two wrongs leads to three wrongs leads to......a huge universal mess. The key words in all of this are responsibility and freedom. The definitions, applications, implications, and ramifications of these words are enormous. They are a balancing act...without a safety net.

10-08-2009, 11:30 PM	#81
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Could it be that the reptilians and greys were ruling from the shadows even in Heaven...prior to the War in Heaven...and the Fall? Did Lucifer smell a rat...and rebel in the same way that people are currently rebelling against what they perceive as the corrupt PTB? Was Heaven really Heaven...or were the heavenly PTB hiding a very dark secret? Did Lucifer soon learn that he too had to deal with the reptilians and greys? Is this true for all factions in the universe? Is Lucifer a mediator between the reptilians and Earth humans? Is the Pope the visible manifestation of Lucifer...the Vicar of Lucifer? I don't say this as a slam or an attack. I'm just trying to figure out what the hell is going on...and why nothing makes sense. If all of the above is true...could the reptilians and greys get what they want by peacefully coexisting with a sovereign humanity? Reps ruling reps. Greys ruling greys. Humans ruling humans. Wouldn't this be in everyone's best interest? I think it would. I'm not sure what the details are...but I see huge problems involving responsibility, freedom, power, government, reptilians, greys, and humans...going back billions of years. Why can't a rational interrelationship be established between these seven words? Why is this so hard? Why does everything have to be so stupid? Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 10-08-2009 at 11:35 PM.

10-09-2009, 12:35 AM	#82
Initiate Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Zealand Posts: 391	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Lucifer has gone. He has been unmade of his own choosing. See http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...3&postcount=54 and http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...0&postcount=53 "Now what I find interesting is that the Urantia books were written just before I was born. What has happened since has changed some what as the players have also changed in their respective roles. What happened to Lucifer? The key point here is that what ever became of Lucifer has happened in our life time. That should give it some new meaning as to the present. Divine history happened and you won't find it in the bible or the Urantia books because this has happened in the last 15 years or so. Think about that. The ramifications of what that means in our now. I don't know the exact date as maybe someone who is more adept at researching might find that exact date. To me it isn't that detrimental plus or minus a few years. But it has happened in my life time. But also at a cost. A cost to the isness as one who was once considered and named so eloquently is now gone forever. Another took his place and I haven't read the Urantia book completely as I am way behind on the stack of reading that I have already but what I can gather it looks like an interesting twist in our time. All of this history from the very beginning happened because there was this self entitled attitude that chose to abuse the Free Agency Gift that our Creator provided. Lucifer was presented with a choice. Imagine after all the evil he had caused, the Creator still had the compassion to allow Lucifer a choice. When Lucifer came to his senses as to what he had done, he basically couldn't face himself. So he asked the Creator to un create him and recycle his energy back into the isness. That is what basically happened. " "The system circuits will not be reinstated as long as Lucifer lives. It is believed that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have already done so. The universe awaits the Uversa decree that will deprive these rebels of personality existence.' " And from what has been said at other threads here at Avalon the Crystal Circuits have been activated. The Devil has a new name "Caligastia." see http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper53.html. Urantia is what the off worlders call our planet. The Urantia Book was gifted in 1955 by what I believe to be those that guide us unseen or unnoticed. Those that have an edict to support us in our uplifting. Last edited by Initiate; 10-09-2009 at 12:43 AM.

10-09-2009, 06:24 AM	#83
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. How do we really know that Lucifer is gone? I doubt this. There may be more than one 'mediator' or 'administrator' between the Dracs and Humans. I keep hoping that Lucifer has (or will) switch sides and do the right thing for the human race. I know I'm naive...but I'm happier that way.

10-09-2009, 08:23 AM	#84
Initiate Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Zealand Posts: 391	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. http://www.buzzle.com/articles/lucif...rt-3-poem.html One Angel stood up, With a sad shining face, An said " Will Lucifer Be put back in Your grace?" God looked up at the Angel, And replied " As far as I know, Lucifer is dead, And the Devil lives down below. He deserves not Lucifers' name, For Lucifer was good, The Devil is Evil, And he may do as he would. He wanted to rule man, So now what he must do, Is tempt them to Evil, to let me find the Good." As God made his decree, The Devils' wings were chaffed, They were burnt of all feathers, It charred his beautiful face. Disfigured and ugly, Just like the Soul inside, He knew he made a mistake, For his name was full of Pride. The Angels around him, They were disfigured as well, But Lucifer was looking At this place known as Hell. He would rule the Damned, For that was what he could do So Lucifer now is trying To tempt the Darkness out of you.

10-09-2009, 06:05 PM	#85
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. The following section of the Urantia Book really got my attention: 054:1 TRUE AND FALSE LIBERTY http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p054.htm 54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty. 54:1.2 True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity. 54:1.3 Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations. 54:1.4 Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships. 54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage. 54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings. 54:1.7 Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation. 54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy. 54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects. 54:1.10 Evolutionary man may have to contend for his material liberties with tyrants and oppressors on a world of sin and iniquity or during the early times of a primitive evolving sphere, but not so on the morontia worlds or on the spirit spheres. War is the heritage of early evolutionary man, but on worlds of normal advancing civilization physical combat as a technique of adjusting racial misunderstandings has long since fallen into disrepute.

10-09-2009, 11:28 PM	#86
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Can anyone tell me what's with the Draconians? What exactly is their problem? What the hell do they want with us? What would it take to convince them to leave us alone? If they backed-off...would those who are between them and the average person...back-off as well? Are there dark beings who give the Dracs orders? Why can't the whole G D* Universe make Constitutional Responsible Freedom the Modus Operandi? There seems to be an infinite amount of power struggling, arrogant heirarchies, advanced technology, horrible cruelty, etc, etc. Most people try to do the right thing and try to be happy...but it seems that unseen forces are opposing them every step of the way...and then accusing the well meaning people of being stupid sinners, etc, etc. Are we in the middle of a hopeless situation...or what? Do all theocracies...throughout the universe...need to be abolished? Does the Universal Church need to be disbanded? Does absolute power corrupt even the most advanced beings...absolutely? I continue to think that we don't need better rulers...we need no rulers. The beings of the universe need to rule themselves under the banner and discipline of Constitutional Responsible Freedom. Could these three words be a New Trinity? I'm thrashing about in a blasphemous existential quagmire of concupiscence...which is undoubtedly anathema. I don't know what the hell that means...but it sounds cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LCWK...relatedYouTube - Aliens - 5 - The Draco Reptilian Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 12-13-2009 at 05:51 PM.

10-20-2009, 02:45 AM	#87
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. I'm feeling really close to the truth...yet really far away. I'm thinking that Sirius is at the center of everything...yet I'm not sure exactly how. Could it be that the God of This World is a Draconian-possessed androgynous black human alien from Sirius who heads Giza Intelligence, the Secret Space Program, and the Deep Underground Military Bases...and who is the real Black Pope? Could the Ark of the Covenant be the UFO which brought us here from Sirius along with technology obtained from Draconian-demons in exchange for allowing the Draconians to possess the elite-humans? Is this solar system really part of the Siran solar system? Is our sun really Sirius C? Is the ancient depiction of three suns really Sirius A, Sirius B, and Sirius C? Are the tall greys from Sirius, really just human beings? Did we all come from Sirius? Is there a stargate between this solar system and Sirius? Is all of the cr@p we have been in for millions of years really a Sirian civil war? Are we all different factions of Sirians? Would my pet project of The United States of the Solar System really have to apply to Sirius as well? Is Sirius the All Seeing Eye at the top of the pyramid? Is Sunday really Sun God Day? Is this sun really Sirius? Is the Roman Catholic Church all about Sirius? Are the Masons all about Sirius? Are the occultists all about Sirius? Is the layout of Washington D.C. all about Sirius? Is the Sirian Theocratic System really the Universal Church aka The Holy Roman Empire aka the New World Order? How answerest thou...SaLuSa?

10-23-2009, 05:18 AM	#88
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Here is something relevant to this thread that I posted on another thread: The Aldebarans are supposedly renegade Pleiadians. Did they thumb their noses at the Pleiadian Powers That Be...and make deals with the Devil aka Draconians...to obtain Technology and Spiritual Power? Was the Pleiades really Heaven? Was the Person In Charge really God. Was Lucifer a Pleiadian who tried to get a better deal by dealing with the Dracs? Did this result in the famous War in Heaven? Did Lucifer drag one third of the Pleiadians to Aldebaran...then to Sirius...and finally to Earth? Are we all Fallen Angels? Is this why Lucifer is the God of This World? Some say Lucifer is no more...but I doubt this. Is Aldebaran still renegade Pleiadian presently? Is Sirius A and Arcturus completely unfallen Pleiadian presently? Is Sirius B and Earth in Sirius trouble? Is a final battle brewing to settle this thing once and for all? Or...is the whole Universe under Draconian control...including the Pleiades? Did the God in the Pleiades keep this a secret to make a bad situation seem like Heaven? Did Lucifer smell a rat...and try to fight fire with fire...hoping to get technology and spirituality from the Dracs...and then turn on them? Could the final phase of this be happening presently? Is that what's brewing? Is this 'The Great Work'? Are Sirius B and Earth engaged in a rebellion against the Dracs which must be crushed? Will the Empire strike back? Does Sirius B and our Sun contain Planets in Rebellion? Do they threaten the Draconian Universal Church Theocracy? Did Lucifer mean well...but did he or she bite off more than they could chew...and go insane? I keep thinking that Lucifer is like Colonel Kurz in 'Apocalypse Now'. If Constitutional Responsible Freedom really catches fire...will this be the end of Draconian Universal Domination? I really and truly don't know. All of the above could be complete BS. I don't know who the good-guys and who the bad-guys are anymore. Do you?

10-28-2009, 04:33 PM	#89
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Perhaps the deception continues after we die. I don't believe in a literal heaven or hell...but who knows what we may experience or be confronted with when we die. I just think we should reasonably question everything. And I mean everything. There is a lot of good...and a lot of love. But I'm seeing a lot of lies glossing over what's really going on. I'm presently speculating that there has been (and continues to be) a massive power struggle involving various factions of humans and non-humans. I tend to think that the original genuine Creator God is somehow removed from the picture (no details or proof)...and that to fill the vaccum we have wannabe gods playing god. The bad-guys presently seem to have the upper-hand. I'm thinking we are renegade Pleiadians who jumped out of the frying pan...and into the fire. Perhaps we are seeking freedom in a very tyrannical universe. Perhaps we are a threat to the universal order. I really don't know. A study of true and false freedom is probably a very important study to engage in. There is an excellent treatment of this subject in the Urantia Book (chapter 53 or 54). These chapters are quite interesting. Once again...I don't know what's really true...and what's total bs. I'm just dealing in possibilities and probabilities. I wonder what it would be like to be hooked up to a black budget virtual reality machine which was connected to a supercomputer containing soul memories. Or could an entity (good or evil) superimpose it's imagination upon our imagination to create a seemingly real life experience. Is this the essense of regression hypnosis? Are people really reliving their past lives...or is this yet another deception? All of this seems to be very tricky. I like to evaluate other people's experiences...rather than seeking exotic experiences and encounters. I tend to think all of this is potentially very dangerous. I'm still waiting for a somewhat detailed analysis of this thread. We're all so busy...and at first glance...the subject of the thread seems boring. Well...maybe it is boring. Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 10-28-2009 at 04:48 PM.

10-29-2009, 03:00 AM	#90
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Here is a comment which I posted on another thread which is relevant to this thread: I have a fascination regarding cathedrals and pipe-organs. The whole temple and worship concept goes way back into antiquity. Lucifer was supposedly the chief musician in 'heaven'. If 'heaven' is really the Pleiades...perhaps there were cathedrals and pipe organs in the Pleiades...and Lucifer brought the whole theological concept...including temples, cathedrals, pipe-organs, and worship...from the Pleiades to Aldebaran...then to Sirius...and finally to Earth. As above...so below. I guess I'm seeing two rival 'gods' leading a civil war. Are the Annunaki and Dracs mercenary interdimensional warriors and laborers? Was the Pleiadian 'god' instrumental in the destruction of Atlantis? Did the Luciferian 'god' take the Atlantian civilization underground? Is this Giza Intelligence? Are there underground mansions, cathedrals, libraries, and museums...combined with military bases and stargate temples? Does Lucifer (or equivalent) possess the ability to end most life on Earth through 'Earth Changes'? Is alien technology really ancient Pleiadian technology? I'm beginning to think so. The exact composition and motivations of the various secret factions are obviously unknown. My guess is that there may be three major factions...two theocratic (one Pleiadian and one Aldebaran Luciferian)...and one namaste constitutional responsible freedom faction. Hitler may very well have been a regular visitor to this underground or inner Earth realm. This may also be true for the Popes. I don't know. This is all just wild speculation. But studying the Nazi phenomenon may be the real window into what is going on. When Henry Kissenger was learning about the 'alien presence' he worked night and day...and wouldn't communicate with anyone...not even his wife. What he was learning must have been devastating. It couldn't have been good. Notice that certain key people, such as Henry Kissinger and Zbigniew Brzezinski (both Jason Scholar study directors)...who presumably know the complete story...quietly direct the Presidents...administration after administration. The Presidents presumably do not know the complete story...with the possible exception of George H.W. Bush. Once again...I just want the secrecy to end...I want all hard core regressive beings (human and non-human) to leave this solar system...and I want the solar system to be based upon namaste constitutional responsible freedom. That should correct most of the major ills...regardless of who is presently running things or which et's are good or bad. If this works...other star systems might try doing this as well. Is this too much to ask?

10-29-2009, 03:19 AM	#91
Myra Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: So Cal Coast USA Posts: 340	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Fascinating post orthodoxymoron, I haven't the time to read it all now but I will get right back to it. You may be on to something...

10-29-2009, 03:36 AM	#92
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Thank-you Myra. This is mostly speculation. I don't like completely off the wall science fiction. I don't like dry and boring history books. I do like to see and hear what other people are thinking and doing...and then I like to speculate and extrapolate based upon their work. I try to make it clear that these are simply possibilities and probabilities. It's sort of fun...but sort of scary too. Some of this stuff is heavy...and undoubtedly steps on lots and lots of toes...including my own. I feel very uncomfortable with a lot of this. In most cases...I hope I'm wrong.

10-30-2009, 09:52 PM	#93
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. I'm still interested in a thoughtful review of this thread! Hope springs eternal!

10-31-2009, 07:46 AM	#94
firefly Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Byron Bay Australia Posts: 79	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Hi, orthodoxymoron, thank you for submitting some really interesting posts, I do always enjoy reading you and occassionly have a little giggle at the way you explain things. Would love to meet you in person, one day. By the way have you watched the following videos . I was really taken by it and would appreciate your take. Agape firefly

11-14-2009, 01:11 AM	#95
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. firefly...there were some good thoughts and concepts in the videos. But how do we know this message is from a Pleiadian? But perhaps we're all Pleiadians. I could probably write something...record it...and claim that I was an ET from the Planet BS. A lot of people would probably believe me...but it would be a lie. I just treat all information as possibly true...especially the fringe info. I think that Constructive Competition is a good thing...and that it is essential to a free and open society. Also...a belief system isn't necessarily BS. Preachers and Politicians don't always lie...just most of the time! I'd still like to hear an evaluation of the first post...positive or negative. Is the God concept a valid and healthy one? Or...is it inherently corrupt and tyrannical? Theological issues are so knee-jerk and emotionally charged...that I guess most people don't want to get involved...unless they have a nit to pick or and axe to grind. I just feel like we're missing the real meat of the subject of our past, present, and future...especially regarding ET's, Gods, Rulers, etc. I suspect that we are going to have to learn the hard way. Jordan Maxwell might be right about the future. I hope not...but I really see what he means. One other thing...in the following video...which I have previously posted...is there something good and something not so good about each character? What would an ideal human look and act like? Should we strive to be better people...every day and in every way? I'm thinking we need to work toward a Perfected Humanity and a Perfected Solar System. This may be all the God and Heaven we get. I don't mean to be negative or faith-destroying...but I do wish to be honest and realistic. Lies haven't worked for thousands or millions of years. Why should we expect them to work now? I think we need to take off the gloves...and really dig for truth and goodness. I think it's going to take a lot of work and pain. This thread probably ventures where angels fear to tread...but I thought it was necessary. I envisioned extensive discussions...and conflicting concepts...but so far very few people have taken the bait. Perhaps it's just as well. In the video...I'm seeing Reptilian/Human vs Human. Who is Satan...really? Who is Lucifer...really? Who is God...really? Who is Jesus...really? Are they all Pleiadian Human and/or Draconian Reptilian? Think about it. I'm not talking about the Creator/Intelligent Designer who I think was instrumental in our original creation/evolution. I'm talking about the ones we're dealing with here and now...in this Solar System. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eTb...next=1YouTube- The Temptation of Jesus by the Devil in the Wilderness Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 12-13-2009 at 05:57 PM.

11-15-2009, 04:00 AM	#96
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Were Giza Intelligence the real 'Raiders of the Lost Ark'? Were the World Wars really Zionism vs Teutonic Zionism? Was Indiana Jones an Andromedan Sympathizer? Please, please, please watch these videos repeatedly...then face yourself...and think and think and think. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YXw7...elatedYouTube- Raiders of the Lost Ark - Theatrical Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfMwK0kCccIYouTube- Teutonic Zionism Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 12-13-2009 at 05:58 PM.

11-15-2009, 12:51 PM	#97
Ravens and Doves Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: North Hollywood, California Posts: 218	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Booda, crishna crackers... They're a knockie, You're a knockie Am a knockie (wanna cookie?) UFO, CIA, NRO, MI6, NSA, Leo What's-his-name (clips of every TV show about every alien and conspiracy every broadcast) 2012? 2013? 2014? End of The World? End of the Moon? Swamp gas (two cups), weather balloon (one teaspoon), sleep paralysis (one cup, mix well). Disgard after baking and tasting. Write 10 books... Be interviewed on History Channel. Kill youself. Rise from the dead.... write NDE book about not killing one's self (best seller). Grow a large forehead (easy... loose hair). Create another Universe to do it all over again. Post to Project Avalon with the answer the the ultimate question of life the universe and everything (still 42... such big answers don't change too quickly, unless they become religions - then they never change.) turn off computer. sleep paul

11-15-2009, 03:17 PM	#98
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. I don't know what you're smoking Paul...but I want some.Perhaps it's just the smog...or maybe the chem-trails. Someone please consider seriously commenting on the editorial content of this thread. I am doing some soul-searching regarding 'Lucifer', 'The God of This World', 'Fallen Angels', 'Demons', 'God the Father', 'Jesus', 'Satan', 'The Holy Spirit', 'Namaste', 'Seeing Christ in All Persons', 'The Divinity Within Humanity', etc. Definitions and word-studies are hugely important. I really think that the answers we need will be found in non-traditional, free-thinking theology...which reads more like science-fiction than a typical Sunday sermon. What if the God who was instrumental in the creation/evolution of human beings (before this Earth even existed) became involved in a war with reptilian beings...and was imprisoned or killed? What if a horrible war of revenge resulted in the near extermination of the reptilian race? What if the souls of these reptilian beings lived on as interdimensional beings known as demons? What if these demons corrupted a Pleiadian Human into creating a Human/Reptilian Theocracy? What if a Human Musician named Lucifer (The Covering Cherub) rebelled against this theocracy...resulting in the 'War in Heaven'? What if Lucifer and a third of the Human 'Angels' were cast out of Heaven (The Pleiades?) and relocated in Aldebaran? What if Lucifer found that he or she had to do business with the Interdimensional Reptilians...resulting in an Aldebaran Theocracy? What if Lucifer and the Fallen Angels eventually ended up on Earth? What if all (or most) of us are these Fallen Angels? What if all of the ancient gods are Luciferian/Draconian or Luciferian/Annunaki? What if Lucifer really meant well and tried to do the right thing...but ended up being as bad or worse than what he or she rebelled against? What if the concept that 'Power Corrupts...and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely' is true...regardless of how well-intentioned or benevolent a being is? What if Jesus was representitive of the good-side of Lucifer...and representative of the original Creator-God...and the Divinity Within Humanity? What if Lucifer is a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality...who has been (and continues to be) a mixture of good and evil...and who has been (and continues to be) at least partially insane? What if Lucifer is the author of the words attributed to both God the Father and Jesus...in the Holy Bible...as well as being the one who most people think of as 'The Devil'? But what if 'The Devil' is the Draconian overlord to Lucifer? What if Lucifer: The God of This World answers to Lord Draco (or equivalent)? Could there be a Theocratic Draconian Faction and a Non-Theocratic Draconian Faction? Could there be a Theocratic Human Faction and a Non-Theocratic Human Faction? Would it be helpful to look at universal history with this as a possibility? Would we discover the above proposition reduced to a Draconian/Human Theocracy vs a Draconian/Human Democracy? I don't know about all of the above...but sorting this out might be incredibly complex. Many good guys and gals might turn out to be evil. Many bad guys and gals might turn out to be good. The basic concepts of Theology and Governance...Humans and Reptilians...Freedom and Tyranny...etc...should be studied in an open and honest manner. Possible scenarios...possibilities and probabilities...elaborations and extrapolations...etc...may yield many helpful insights. Don't take this post too seriously. It's just preliminary speculation. I don't wish to offend anyone. I mean no harm. Regardless of the true content of universal history...I continue to be enamored with the concept of Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...as a non-theocratic synthesis of Ethical Spirituality and Minimalist State. Questions or Comments? Namaste Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 11-15-2009 at 04:59 PM.

11-17-2009, 11:25 PM	#99
orthodoxymoron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lunar Base II Posts: 3,093	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. Could it be that Satan and Demons are really Interdimensional Draconian Reptilians who hate Humans? Could it be that God, Lucifer, and Jesus are Pleiadian Humans...and that even Lucifer is a good-guy or good-gal? They could all possibly be good. Could it be that they are all at odds with the Dracs...and that they simply have different philosophies regarding how to deal with them? Do they lead the three or four factions which I suspect are headquartered in underground bases...here and on the Moon? I believe in the literal existence of all of the above. With this in mind...consider the following link regarding God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, etc: http://www.lucifer.com/lucifer.html Do the Dracs control the Vatican...against the will of the Curia and the Pope? Is the term 'Luciferian' really a cover for 'Draconian'? I keep thinking that the Dracs need to be kicked out of our Solar System. I keep thinking that no one should bow down and worship anyone...including worshipping God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, etc. We should simply reverence the Divinity Within Humanity aka The Christlike Holy Spirit. We should see Christ in All Persons. Lucifer...is this correct? I continue to suspect that you would be ok if the Dracs were gone...you retired...and if our Solar System was based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom. I still wish to hear you improvise on the Cavaille-Coll pipe-organ at Saint Sulpice...after this mess is resolved. Lucifer...can you use your Galactic Rolodex to arrange a Solar System Exorcism...and to arrange replacing the U.N. Charter with the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...and have this apply to the entire Solar System? I tend to think that you can. Perhaps you have already called in the strike. If so...thank-you in advance. See you at Saint Sulpice. Namaste Lucifer. Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 11-18-2009 at 12:00 AM.

11-18-2009, 01:46 AM	#100
THE eXchanger Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Spiritual eXplorer-Canada Posts: 4,915	Re: God, Jesus, Satan, Lucifer, Etc. how do you define a human ???

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