Irish Times Lisbon poll fools public - Deception has set in for referendum 2 *

[Antaletriangle]

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=652
Wise Up Journal note (Press release below):

An Irish Times poll asked 1000 people how would they would vote again on the Lisbon treaty if it was modified regarding “neutrality, abortion and taxation” also allowing Ireland to keep it’s EU commissioner. A misleading question; the EU said it will not modify the treaty as it would have to be ratified again by the other 26 national parliaments. The front page Irish Times article said, “when the ‘don’t knows’ are excluded this gives the Yes side 52.5 per cent, with the No side on 47.5 per cent. It compares to the referendum result in June of 53.4 per cent No and 46.6 per cent Yes.” If we go along and compare the 1000 people fantasy question poll to the real national democratic referendum on equal terms we see that there was a drop from 53.4% to 47.5% on the No side. A 5.9% difference, that is a 11% drop relative to the No side. If this poll is to be taken as “proof” it shows the Irish Times, Irish Government and the EU that their made up reasons to hold another referendum are exactly that and they know it. The poll actually shows 89% of the No side voted not due to “neutrality, abortion and taxation” issues.

The National Platform EU Research and Information Centre
17.11.2008
by Anthony Coughlan - Secretary

Misleading nature of the question asked in Irish Times opinion poll on Lisbon … The planned deception envisaged for a Lisbon Two referendum becomes clearer

Any Lisbon referendum re-run must be on exactly the same Lisbon Treaty as the Irish people voted No to last June.

This crucial fact is concealed or glossed over in today’s Irish Times poll and in Foreign Minister Micheal Martin’s comments on it.

Not a jot or tittle - not a comma - of the text of Lisbon can be changed, for otherwise it would be legally a new Treaty which would have to go around all 27 EU States for ratification again.

The Declarations referred to in the Opinion Poll question are different from Protocols in that they are not legally part of a Treaty. Declarations are political statements made by one State or several. They are not international agreements between States which are legally binding on them(See Irish White Paper definitions below).

Protocols are legally part of a Treaty. There will be no Protocols for Ireland over Lisbon, for that would be to reopen the Lisbon Treaty and would require all 27 EU States to ratify the new Protocol, which would in effect be a new Treaty

A Declaration or political commitment that every Member State would keep a national Commissioner under Lisbon does not require any change in the Lisbon Treaty, for the existing Lisbon text(Art.17.5 amended TEU) allows the 27 Member States to agree to such a step unanimously in 2014, if they decide at that time not to reduce the Commission by one-third, which Lisbon otherwise envisages.

Contrary to what the Irish Times poll misleadingly asked its interview sample, Lisbon does not need to be “modified” or changed in the slightest for these Declarations to be made or for a political commitment to be given that each EU State will keep one of its nationals on the EU Commission indefinitely.

The Irish Times opinion poll question was this: “If the Lisbon Treaty is modified to allow Ireland to retain an EU Commissioner and other Irish concerns on neutrality, abortion and taxation are clarified in special declarations, would you vote Yes or No in another referendum?”

What a less misleading Irish Times poll question would have been:

A Treaty modification is a Treaty change. Contrary to what the Irish Times question implies, Lisbon cannot be “modified” in any way, for any modification of the Treaty text would make it legally a new Treaty and different from the Lisbon Treaty which most EU States have already ratified, so that the whole ratification process would have to start again from scratch.

A more accurate and less misleading way of putting the opinion poll question would have been: “If the Lisbon Treaty is left legally unchanged but is accompanied by a promise that Ireland could retain an EU Commissioner and other Irish concerns on neutrality, abortion and taxation are clarified in non-legally binding Declarations, would you vote Yes or No in another referendum?”

Not modifying the Lisbon Treaty but modifying its presentation for a Lisbon Two:

Talk of “modifying” the Lisbon Treaty in the context of this opinion poll question is therefore to use a weasel-word. What Messrs Cowen and Martin envisage for Lisbon Two is not that the Lisbon Treaty would be modified, but that the presentation of it would be!

Lisbon Two would be presented differently from Lisbon One by means of these non-binding political Declarations and an accompanying political promise from the EU Prime Ministers and Presidents that every EU State can keep a Commissioner under Lisbon when in practical terms the same can happen under the Nice Treaty which currently rules in the EU.

This Irish Times opinion poll, like the profoundly flawed “research” on why people voted as they did in last June’s referendum which the Department of Foreign Affairs commissioned over a month after the result, will contribute to the elaborate scheme of deception of the Irish people that is currently being planned by Taoiseach Brian Cowen, Foreign Minister Micheal Martin and Iveagh House.

cont.on link above.