The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

[Shellie]

What is their internal motivation (guilt), and what it the external motivation (outside pressures)? I am sure a lot of these people can't even handle their own truth. Amnesty is punishment enough.

[Richard T]

The problem with a principle of amnesty is that it is a blanket concept.

[Jenny]

South Africa had this concept after Apartheid.

To come clean...no punishment.

Anyone knows what that was ?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Well done to Richard. I agree with you 100%.

However, you can bet that if I or any other "non-name" member posted anything like this, people get ****** off and acuse us of being an agent.

Peace is the only thing that would ever last - also correct.

love & light to all.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I just cant get my head around letting these people get away with what they have done & all the lives of innocents they have ruined.

[Richard T]

The head of the serpent is never cut-off.

Obviously, people who get involved at a certain level do it for a reason.
Then again, anyone does what he does for a reason.
And in a court of law, reason is not an excuse.

And I understand quite well that people are not ultimately responsible, not really knowing what they are doing. Why? They don't even really know who they are, where they are from and where they are going.

Still, they are capable of being used by the serpent. Somewhere along the lines they have been seduced.

And yes, once you are in the belly of the serpent, it is very hard to escape.

And because of this, I have no incentive to give them credit, because they are at the mercy of the serpent, therefore not trustworthy.

They did it for their country? Fine. I am interested by the human race. Countries are not eternal.

On the other hand, its easy for me to comment, not being caught nor having any influence on the occult plan that seeks to enslave humanity.

The head. It is the head that is of foremost importance.

It has been said that man would be judged by man, in the end.

[21sept]

Amnesty, whether we like it or not, IS the only way forward

[Norval]

Amnesty is possible, for some.

There is an "amnesty", that many are concerned about also, that most don't have a clue
about. As I have said the aliens are just like us, good and bad. Neighborly, or not so
neighborly. Yet there is one more type of people, be they ET, or mankind, and that is one
that has had a "change of heart". We call those BRET's, or Bad Reformed ET's. (RBET's
just doesn't ring.)

These "reformed" ET's were cast down to the earth by the "devil", or head honcho of the
bad ET's because of dissension in the ranks. Many are now on our side, so to speak, it is
amnesty for them that was a consideration by Gale and myself some years ago. We
agreed that as with the "judgment" of mankind, our hearts and what motivated us, is the
judging factor of forgiveness or not. Yes, amnesty for those of good heart and intentions.

[arcora]

What is amnesty except forgiveness?

[gazbom]

Originally Posted by Jenny

South Africa had this concept after Apartheid.

To come clean...no punishment.

Anyone knows what that was ?

Hi Jenny!
It was the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
In 1994 South Africa finally ended the tragic events of Apartheid that had plagued the nation for many years. For 81 years South Africa suffered through Apartheid. The South African Apartheid started in 1913. Over the next 80 years black Africans were treated poorly, with no rights and no peace. After the years of oppression, it finally ended when a new president was elected. This paper provides an overview of the South African Apartheid and how it came to an end. The report describes the Democratic elections to bring a new president into office that officially closed the times of the Apartheid. It explains the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and its role in bringing forgiveness and healing to South Africa. It also explains how Nelson Mandela acted as president and what he did after his presidency. The report thus explains the path towards the end of Apartheid and the possibility of hope in South Africa.

[Jenny]

Yes, that's what I was thinking of.. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

Instead of Amnesty OR Vengeance; Truth and Reconciliation.

[khepran]

I say amnesty. They have to live with what they did, that's punishment enough. Give them a chance to do something productive, like farming...

[undetected]

To save myself some typing, I will say that I totally agree with the post of NancyV.

To add a bit more...

"They absolutely owe us the truth, the whole, unvarnished truth, and they owe it to us right now."
Sorry but this is arrogance and ignorance hand in hand. Guys like Henry Deacon don't owe YOU anything. You should be very happy they told you at least a bit of what they know. Some people are pushing this "we have a right to know" to the same extremes to which government is pushing the "don't need to know" thing.

Most of you have no clue what it's been like for the people in black ops. You have no idea what they had to go through, who are you to say they owe you something? They unknowingly became victims of a very evil and exploitative system. At the point where they figured it out, they were way deep in. Escaping from there is almost impossible, the agencies don't want you to escape obviously and they can and will do anything to stop you from releasing secret information. These people put their and their families' lives at stake when talking about this. Besides, they took oaths, signed documents, thus giving you the information which you think they owe you, is actually illegal by our laws. And I'm not even talking about the mind control operations which some of them were subject to and may virtually be "unable" to tell the truth.

As for those who think that people who were in black ops, are somehow the bad guys and should be punished, here's some news for you: EVERYONE who has ever served in the army, has "sold their soul to the devil," at least for the time of the service. In the army you swear to obey orders without questioning them, with absolutely NO guarantee that the orders you will receive, will be somehow "good" or "right". Any soldier is bound to shoot whoever they tell him to shoot without asking who the victim is or what their "crime" is. You think the guys at the age of 20 see that far? They're just doing their job, and by the time they realize [IF they do - in any military service they're under constant brainwash if not mind control] what they're actually part of, it's a bit too late to say "hey I changed my mind, I'm out of here and I'm telling the world." Those who actually break the oath of secrecy and reveal anything at all, should be considered heroes indeed.

As for Henry Deacon, I have great respect and admiration for him and I'm very sorry if he left the forum. He's done a great job on Camelot/Avalon and I sincerely wish the best for him.

As for John Lear... I don't even understand what the problem is. This man has given out such incredible amount of information that I don't get what the accusation is.

"Michael St. Clair is another story entirely. He's very open and engages in dialog on a very wide range of topics."
Sure he is very open and doesn't avoid any topic. Have you maybe considered that he doesn't have a bunch of government agencies on his back, threatening him and messing with his mind?

Yes, many guys in the black ops have committed awful crimes. Then again, they commited them on government orders and often weren't aware of the nature of what they were doing. Some of them may have turned into bad people, others not. It's impossible for you or me to judge them. Be glad for the ones who are at trying to fix at least a few things now.

[murnut]

Originally Posted by 21sept

Amnesty, whether we like it or not, IS the only way forward

Agreed...Amnesty when possible short of murder

[ArthurAvalon]

Originally Posted by undetected

To save myself some typing, I will say that I totally agree with the post of NancyV.

To add a bit more...

"They absolutely owe us the truth, the whole, unvarnished truth, and they owe it to us right now."
Sorry but this is arrogance and ignorance hand in hand. Guys like Henry Deacon don't owe YOU anything. You should be very happy they told you at least a bit of what they know. Some people are pushing this "we have a right to know" to the same extremes to which government is pushing the "don't need to know" thing.

Most of you have no clue what it's been like for the people in black ops. You have no idea what they had to go through, who are you to say they owe you something? They unknowingly became victims of a very evil and exploitative system. At the point where they figured it out, they were way deep in. Escaping from there is almost impossible, the agencies don't want you to escape obviously and they can and will do anything to stop you from releasing secret information. These people put their and their families' lives at stake when talking about this. Besides, they took oaths, signed documents, thus giving you the information which you think they owe you, is actually illegal by our laws. And I'm not even talking about the mind control operations which some of them were subject to and may virtually be "unable" to tell the truth.

As for those who think that people who were in black ops, are somehow the bad guys and should be punished, here's some news for you: EVERYONE who has ever served in the army, has "sold their soul to the devil," at least for the time of the service. In the army you swear to obey orders without questioning them, with absolutely NO guarantee that the orders you will receive, will be somehow "good" or "right". Any soldier is bound to shoot whoever they tell him to shoot without asking who the victim is or what their "crime" is. You think the guys at the age of 20 see that far? They're just doing their job, and by the time they realize [IF they do - in any military service they're under constant brainwash if not mind control] what they're actually part of, it's a bit too late to say "hey I changed my mind, I'm out of here and I'm telling the world." Those who actually break the oath of secrecy and reveal anything at all, should be considered heroes indeed.

As for Henry Deacon, I have great respect and admiration for him and I'm very sorry if he left the forum. He's done a great job on Camelot/Avalon and I sincerely wish the best for him.

As for John Lear... I don't even understand what the problem is. This man has given out such incredible amount of information that I don't get what the accusation is.

"Michael St. Clair is another story entirely. He's very open and engages in dialog on a very wide range of topics."
Sure he is very open and doesn't avoid any topic. Have you maybe considered that he doesn't have a bunch of government agencies on his back, threatening him and messing with his mind?

Yes, many guys in the black ops have committed awful crimes. Then again, they commited them on government orders and often weren't aware of the nature of what they were doing. Some of them may have turned into bad people, others not. It's impossible for you or me to judge them. Be glad for the ones who are at trying to fix at least a few things now.

-- -----------
Bravo!
Cheers,
Thats exactly what we feel.
Arthur Avalon/ Aurion Mission.

I do agree with Nancy, but I also agree with Frank. It is my opinion that we do not need a middle ground, but instead the best of both worlds.

So lets not have Vengeance... this helps NO one, and NO part of society... Period. Prisons, Capital Punishment, and torture have been done through out history, and still we have crime. These methods do nothing Generative at all.

The only benefit of Vengeance is to please the person who gets off on it. Its easy to succumb to revenge, but again it serves no purpose other than to get off on it. Vengeance is NOT a direction humanity needs.

Now just because Society does not seek Vengeance, does not mean we should not have Deterrents. YES we need deterrents otherwise everyone would take every chance they get to do what ever comes into their minds. This doesn't mean Jail time, Murder, Lengthy Trials, and other stuff that doesn't work.

Instead look at the acts (not crimes, because this labels them) committed, and figure out a program to rehabilitate or allows these people to still contribute to society. Figure out why the people committed the acts they did. Figure out what society did to allow these acts to happen. And figure out solutions to the problems.

An example is world war one. After world war one, Germany was punished for trying to take over the world. It was forced to pay reparations to France, and was in a poor state. The people of Germany were angry, upset, and looked to a leader... that leader was Hitler. The moral of the story is that if the worlds leading nations gave Germany a helping hand after the war, and made the necessary precautions to ensure that Germany would not start another war in the mean time. Another war would most likely not have taken place.

So please dont allow these people at the top to be in the military, government, or business if they are threats. Dont allow them to have loads of money. Let them live discretely, under a form of parole. Figure out their actions and motives... and act accordingly to their situation. But help them... do not punish them. Because the acts that they are performing are not rational... and are those of sick people. I dont have all the answers, but I do know that Vengeance is not Generative on any level.

P.S. Thanks to all the people on the "Dark Side" who are whistle blowing, and helping to change the face of the planet.

[brightstar]

I must have missed something, what happened to Henry Deacon? I didn't know he left here.

As far as John Lear goes, It is my understanding that all he did was fly various planes for all he ever did. That was his job pure and simple. As to the cargo that was not his responsibility, only to fly the planes. He was also a test pilot who tested new airplanes that were made to see how they did, handled, etc. I would think he would have had to have some kind of a security clearance in order to just be able to get on the various military bases, etc., but I do not think he had real high clearance. I do not doubt that he met many peoples in all of the years he has flown various missions for the CIA and whoever else, but this does not make him a big bad black ops person. John is unique, he is a cowboy in his own right by being a pilot, it takes nerves and guts to be a test pilot, but he loved flying and that was what he did. I cannot and will not fault anyone from doing a job they love like that.

Had he been involved in various scientific projects where he made WMD's or done horrible things to other humans or kidnapped peoples, etc., then it would be a whole different story indeed. I like John Lear and with all I have ever heard him say, all he wanted to do was fly his planes.

As far as punishment or amnesty, this is an aspect I have thought some on, but not in depth. I know that many peoples have been pulled into these various government jobs under certain pretnses and then after they are in these jobs, they are then used, many have been deliberately set up in order for the various PTB to blackmail them and try to retain controls over them. So how do you judge someone in such a position, it then becomes one of those you are da_____ed if you do, and da_____ed if you don't type situations. Many are not allowed to leave and are assassinated, or their families have been threatened. So they are put into a terrible situation indeed and it is those very ones I would have to have compassion on to a large degree and would consider amnesty indeed if they came totally clean with all they were aware of and knew first hand.

However, the ones on the top levels, I would really have to think on those and the evils they have committed against humanity, their countries, the peoples, and their own governments. Some I do think would deserve to be tried in the Courts of Law. But this is a very touchy subject indeed. It would have to be a case by case situation depending upon the level of authorities they held as I see it.

The whistleblowers, however, are the ones that have to have a conscience who have been put in bad situations. They know things are wrong and this is why they are trying to tell what little they can to get the attention of the peoples in hopes the peoples at least wake up. And because I would think they would like to see the evils they know of stopped. But they also know that if they go totally public with their identities, then they will probably be assassinated also, and no one wants to have to live with this type of situation.

I don't like all the missing peoples either, and all of the missing children, but before one gets on here stating that certain individuals ought to be done this way or that, one better know for sure just what they are talking about instead of making assumptions just because this one worked for black ops or that one did, etc. etc. Anyone one of us could have been caught in the same type of situation just trying to make a living and then when we find just what is really going on then it is too late usually.




brightstar

[Norval]

The Search for Truth - Amnesty or Vengeance?

Kerry said;
"Whether "the people" are able to forgive them, and limit vengeance will be partially due
to projects like ours that began to reveal the truth to the people."
And,
"... Some may not be so generous."

Many have heard this;
"Vengeance is mine," says the Lord, "I will repay."
Understanding that this is the King of all the Galaxies speaking, coming to take
vengeance, deliver the oppressed, puts that message and this topic in a different light
altogether.

Because of what has happened to friends, loved ones, and ones involved in this research,
I, for one, would love to take vengeance into my own hands. I will not though, but I do
fervently hope that I will be chosen to help in the delivery of that vengeance that is coming
upon all those that have harmed mankind and didn't want Jesus to become King and
killed him once. Yes, King Jesus is returning, (has returned from the looks of our solar
system), and with an attitude. We can no more stop, nor alter, that vengeance than we
can, or have stopped, corruption here

This is a post that I would have preferred not to make, yet it needed to be said.

For some it will be a "doom and gloom" post while for others it will mean "deliverance
and exhilaration". This is a "whistle blower" testimony about a finished message from ET,
the bible, that has been in our hands now for two thousand years.

Religionocity and demonocracy have no place in a monarchy.
The technology of the bad ET’s / fallen angels is just fools play compared to what is
coming.

Sincerely
Norval L. Cunningham Where's the "whistle blower one?

[Shechaiyah]

Justice is NEITHER Amnesty NOR Vengeance. Outcomes are critical to social discipline.

Justice is, the good and harmless person doing a good or harmless act OUGHT TO MANIFEST a good outcome (not be punished for doing good);

and

the person with intention to do harm that deceives, cheats, injures, violates another person's CONSENT OUGHT TO BE disrupted, corrected and placed back on the path to doing Good -- or expelled from society somehow.

But in any case -- Destruction IS NEVER a Blessing, and Life ITSELF is NEVER "the problem."


Shech--

[Zynox]

RESOLVED:

If one has gravitated to Avalon for Peace and Radiant Zone Communities, then one seeks more than they have found in the current predominant paradigms.

RESOLVED:

If one intends to act in accordance with all is one / one is all, I am the world / the world is me, then understanding of each individual expression of the all / world is paramount to acting upon the intention.

OBSERVATIONS:

While I respect some feel that disclosure is important, and impacting, even disclosure is only a source of knowledge, and knowledge itself may be perceived as history and the past.

Knowledge is not wisdom.

Wisdom may be defined, on levels, as applied knowledge.

BLESSING:

To be in relation(ship) with another, Krishnamurti shared that there is no relation, at all, when knowledge is the foundation, because we are then in the past, and, not living from the heart, but the mind.

Castenada shared what resides, in our minds (parasites).

May we live within, and from, our hearts.

CONCLUSION:

The above is offered in love, and may each friend that reads it find, within, their own perspective and resonance.

INTENTION > CHANGE = ACTION

~ love and namaste, my sisters and brothers ~

[rosie]

I would have to say amnesty. Any other action could put us back into the dark ages. This is what it is about. To move forward, without prejudice, and with empathy towards those that "have not quite got it yet".

I do not fear what I am not told, and am thankful for what I do receive, from these sources.

Note: I am from "Canada", but feeling like I am from "Earth", as we all feel the same pain, we all cry, we all laugh, we all love. No matter what path we have taken on this beautiful planet earth.

Love & Peace

[Cindy]

Amnesty is the only way we can learn the truth. As frustrated and perhaps angry we may be for all that has happened, we cannot have open communication if we are ready to take vengence. I only want the truth whatever that may be. I feel that it is our human-right to know what is happening beneath the surface. It is wrong to keep humanity in the dark. Regardless of whether most of humanity are ready for it or not. I feel that humans need to know that we are part of this Galactic family. We ALL need to know the programs that have been implanted in the minds of humans to keep them from seeing what is real. I am ready for a full-blown, in your face, disclosure. Let it out and let us figure out where the pieces will fall. I understand why those who are speaking out are sending us little pieces of information, because they have to protect themselves from personal harm. I bless Deacon and Lear for sharing and doing their part. I just wish to see and learn more. I want to be a part of re-creating a healthier and more peaceful planet. And in doing so, I must know what has taken place in order to lay the foundation for this new reality. I ask that whoever has information please step forward with courage. So many of us want to listen and not take vengeance.

[Shechaiyah]

Are you FOR AMNESTY for parasitic, predatory and violent criminals who have no sense of "Rule by Law"?

Just wondered what kind of world this would be if there were no accountability for effects we create AGAINST others, TO HARM THEM.

[milk and honey]

"Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord, I will repay"

This is a statement of the impersonal LAW of the Universe but to make it understandable to unevolved people it was stated in the 'first person'. God and the Law are synonymous in scripture.

It is a simple statement of the law of karma.

"Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap"

All of us have set causes in motion and we will experience the effects of our actions. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That's how the karmic law holds all accountable and that is why we are admonished in all the world's scriptures to surrender our desire for vengeance.... lest we set fresh karma in motion.

Having said that, there are some people who are a clear and present danger to others and they are not unreasonably restrained. In any worldly system of justice where offenders are brought to account, consideration is given to motive, remorse and bearable reparation.

But somehow i don't think we are in any position to bring the power elite or their operatives to account for their actions. They have all the temporal power and protections in their hands. They have corrupted every system of society to serve themselves and this has enabled them to dodge their karma. Many of us may also have feathered our own nests under their wing in past lives and may have been a part of the problem rather than the solution. It's not unthinkable.

Most people's evil is relative, expressing itself in lives of black, white and shades of grey.

But there are some on Earth who's evil is 'pure' and absolute.

Nevertheless, that evil is not immortal. Souls can reach the end of an opportunity to evolve with other souls of similar evolution; ie the human race. A time of judgement is upon the Earth. A separation of souls according to "works" (vibration and intent) is now taking place as each one goes through the change called 'death'. Some will 'graduate' and transcend the earth plane, some will reincarnate on earth again and others have such a grievous karmic burden so heavy that they have run out of opportunity to ever re-incarnate here again. This is the dividing of the Way. The "shift".

It is a shift in consciousness for those who will. Information and knowledge won't save us but what we do with it counts. We don't depend on the "insiders'" revelations so much as the revelation of our own inner- spirit. But we do appreciate whatever genuine contributions the 'insiders' can give us.

[Shechaiyah]

I wish I could say, that karma works in the short-run.

If so, what's happening to our banking industry?

I think, one must expect to FACILITATE Justice and NOT to IGNORE Injustice.

Not-See-ism is about being passive and ignoring Injustice until it comes right up to you and smacks you in the face.

Am I wrong?


Shech--