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What Does It Mean ? What does this all mean for the Ground Crew ? |
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09-16-2008, 08:25 PM | #1 |
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US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=2
US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan Sep 16 01:09 PM US/Eastern Chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, Admiral Michael Mullen, arrived in Pakistan on an unannounced visit Tuesday to discuss operations underway on the Afghanistan frontier with Pakistan's leaders, the Pentagon said. "He will meet with Prime Minister (Yousuf Raza) Gilani and General (Ashfaq) Kayani to discuss ongoing operations in the border region with Afghanistan," the office of the Joint Chiefs told AFP, without elaborating. The visit comes against a backdrop of tension between the two allies. Islamabad has vowed to defend itself against violations of its air space and incursions by US forces in Afghanistan, after a series of missile strikes blamed on US-led coalition forces left 38 people dead in Pakistan. The Pentagon on Monday denied that US-led coalition helicopters based in Afghanistan were fired on in Pakistan and forced to turn back. The incident "did not happen," said Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman, adding that after studying the facts, a statement by a Pakistani security official "didn't appear to be accurate." Earlier there were conflicting reports that shots were fired when US-led coalition helicopters based in Afghanistan neared the border with Pakistan. The gunfire was said to have broken out late Sunday about 100 meters (yards) from the South Waziristan tribal area, where Al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters are believed to be sheltering. There were no casualties. "The US-led coalition troops in helicopters came close to the border and they tried to sneak into Pakistan territory but shots were fired by Pakistani troops and the coalition troops retreated," a Pakistani security official said. But Whitman said in Washington: "I can't find any mission that correlates to the reports I saw." "I can't find any report about helicopters being fired upon," he added. The incident was also denied by Pakistan army's chief military spokesman, Major General Athar Abbas. "These reports are not correct," he said. US Defense Secretary Robert Gates, meanwhile, arrived Tuesday to the Afghan capital for talks with coalition force commanders and President Hamid Karzai amid increasing concern about the Taliban insurgency. Recent alleged US incursions into the area that have raised alarm in Pakistan have been welcomed by Afghanistan, which has for years said that more attention should be paid to extremist sanctuaries across the border. |
09-16-2008, 09:03 PM | #2 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
If he leaves with an Agreement for Pakistan troops to join the Allies in Afghanistan... I'd feel much better knowing they don't want this mess to continue...
Ever get the feeling you are being watched? whistles innocently and disappears... |
09-16-2008, 10:17 PM | #3 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
I agree. If he leaves and the Pakistanis are still maintaining their border security, which they are allowed to do under international law, then that would show me that they have given Bush/Cheney "the finger".
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09-16-2008, 11:45 PM | #4 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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09-17-2008, 12:42 AM | #5 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
This is highly unusual. Robert gates and Mullen in Afganistan and Pakistan. Something did happen here and these two are here to sort things out so that the situation may not get out of hand.
We live in very dangerous times indeed. |
09-17-2008, 01:13 AM | #6 | |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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Haven't seen anything yet. Vega, I agree that those two being over there at the same time is significant. If you look at other threads I've posted on concerning the Pakistan situation, you'll see my current threory elucidated. I think that Pakistan, pre Musharaff ouster, or leading to the ouster, decided they were no longer going to be American "lackeys" in the region. The Bush/Cheney cabal didn't take it seriously and perhaps even tested the resolve vis a vi sending troops across the Pakistani border. The Pakistani government responded strongly, and abracadabra - Gates and Mullen appear on the scene. In my opinion, and this has not been born out by facts yet, is that there is a certain amount of "panic" involved, since the illegal (my opinion) occupation of Ahfganistan cannot continue without a willing stooge in Pakistan. Not to mention the fact that Pakistan is armed with nuclear weapons, not the ideal antagonist. My guess is that Gates and Mullen are staging an attempt to bring Pakistan "back into the fold". If that is the case I don't think it will work. I also think that this relates to the Georgian conflict, and Russia's quick and successful defiance of Bush/Cheney/Israel, as well as the desire for Bush/Cheney/Israel to strike militarily against Iran. See this article detailing the buildup of U.S. naval power in the region as a possible attack force - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/17/iran.usa As I have expressed to Rocky, more needs to come out before this can be parsed more accurately, but this is my feeling thus far. |
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09-17-2008, 07:32 PM | #7 | |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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09-17-2008, 07:37 PM | #8 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
That statement was followed by this...
Suspected US missile strike kills 6 in Pakistan http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080917/...as/as_pakistan |
09-17-2008, 07:44 PM | #9 | |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
no military shots were fired, and that incident was followed by this...
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09-17-2008, 07:49 PM | #10 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
True, but you can't fire at a cruise missle, at least effectively. Notice that no troops have crossed the border since the firefight yesterday, that we know of, of course. We also don't know the Pakistani feelings on that missle. Alert me if you hear anything, I'll do the same.
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09-17-2008, 07:51 PM | #11 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
oh you can shoot at it...
but they didn't I'll let you know if I see more |
09-18-2008, 11:12 PM | #12 | |||
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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09-19-2008, 12:32 AM | #13 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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"Despite repeated protests lodged by President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani over non-stop US air strikes on Pakistani tribal villages, two American spy planes again entered South Waziristan on Thursday evening and were seen flying over the area till the filing of this report." "Ahmadzai Wazir tribesmen, who have raised a tribal Lashkar to defend their frontiers against the foreign forces, were critical over the alleged silence of the Pakistani security forces based in old Sra Kanda fort, about a kilometre from the Baghar village, on US drones flying inside the Pakistani territory." "As far as Admiral Mullen’s statement which he made on Wednesday regarding Pakistan’s sovereignty, Qureshi said: “I have to respect it. But later when there is another attack (the same day), it appears there is an institutional disconnect (within the US). They will have to sort it out.”" "He said when he visits Washington for the strategic dialogue, he would formally give his honest assessment." "My understanding is that no foreign troops are allowed to operate inside Pakistan and if any action is taken across the border, then it is for the Isaf and Nato troops to do so.” |
09-19-2008, 12:52 AM | #14 | |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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The Pakistan army is now coordinating with NATO on attacks inside of Pakistan. Which goes back to exactly what I said (about 10 threads ago, I couldn't even find it.. we don't need new threads for every update to the story... hint hint) We had Drones flying over 15 villages today inside Pakistan without one shot fired... |
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09-19-2008, 04:16 AM | #15 | ||
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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Comments from ministers and government spokesmen neither prove nor disprove either of our viewpoints, no more than Rice and Cheney's condemnation of Russia's actions in Georgia eliminate the fact that they support the U.S. acting similarly (to put it most mildly) when they see fit. Again, I fully acknowledge that you may have the better read on this situation. I still maintain that the original U.S. - Pakistani "alliance" was false, or rather, one born of temporary mutual benefit, that was destined to fall apart from its inception. Note - Musharaff is gone - not inconsequential or irrelevant. Note - post Musharaff the Pakistani government has not "played ball" as usual with Musharaff. In addition, you have to look at the larger pattern very recently developing, unseen heretorforenow, of nations OPENLY siding against the Bush/Cheney/Israel, cabal - e.g. Latin America, South America, Russia, Pakistan - joining in with Iran et alia. China behind the scenes, playing the situation carefully and mostly silently - only threats coming from their alliance w/ Russia vis a vi Iran, via the Shanghai Cooperative, and subtle, but most devastatingly real economic threats via their state newspaper - http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020404, as an example. I see Pakistan's obvious "change" in approach to the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Ahfganistan situation must represent something different than the previous mode of "cooperation". Please continue to update me with information on this area, and please don't take my responses as a refutation of your ideas. I value your thoughts here, Z |
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09-19-2008, 04:28 AM | #16 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
I do enjoy your inputs, seeing a different point of view brings up new questions that make me look for answers.
Remember the first day when the Pakistan Military leader Stated flat out there is no Al Queda or Terrorist in Pakistan's tribal region as the US Military had drones in the air, bombing and killing their Operations Leader... Made the Pakistan Military leader look clueless... Next thing we knew, the head of NATO flew out for the meeting. Right after that, the government announced that NATO will be pursuing them into the country... |
09-19-2008, 05:08 AM | #17 | |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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Therefore, if even a miniscule amount of skepticism is applied to our "war on terror", then the "mainstream"/ Bush justification for violating the borders of any nation is in jeopardy, much less the border of a nation that up until very recently we have called "friends", "allies", "compatriots", et cetera. One might ask, "How can this issue of a border dispute with Pakistan EVEN exist?", "Are we not brothers in the fight against the Taliban?", "Do we not oppose an undemocratic Ahfganistan together?", etc... etc... In other words, once the "Al Qaeda as the ultimate enemy of mankind" or "if the Taliban is not destroyed, freedom will die" arguments fail to hold up, then the excuses for crossing the Pakistan border similarly fail. If that is the case, then the Pakistani cries for "sovereignty of their OWN border" can be seen in a different light than the Mullen/Rice/Bush viewpoint of "Hey, we're just getting the bad guys, like we talked about." I think that neither the Pakistani government, no matter how involved with the West they committed themselves, nor the Pakistani people, will ultimately see things the Bush way. Let's see where it goes, and keep the info coming |
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09-19-2008, 05:30 AM | #18 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
several threats towards Iran has come out in recent weeks from Al Queda...
They are accusing them of being allies of the US against Afghanistan and Iraq... Kind of a twisted view, but I know you understand the two edged sword mentioned in your last post. If they directed the same towards the leadership of Pakistan, the whole country would explode into violence. I did get out of the government from Pakistan what I was hoping to see... |
09-19-2008, 05:46 AM | #19 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
Understood, Rocky, and it goes towards the theory of "the taking of sides" I have outlined in other posts. Let's see what happens.
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09-19-2008, 04:18 PM | #20 | ||
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
a little bird laid this before me, all I can do is smile...
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09-20-2008, 08:46 PM | #21 |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
US defies Pakistan with new air raid
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-25837,00.html Pakistani president tells foreign troops to keep out http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapc...n.sovereignty/ |
09-21-2008, 04:45 AM | #22 | |
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
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They can't handle it which is why there is going to be coordination starting, but al queda's enemy is the US, for us to open a base there is going to give them a "target" What do you think is going to happen the first time al queda makes an attack on the US base? |
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10-03-2008, 06:22 PM | #23 | ||
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Re: US military chief makes unannounced visit to Pakistan
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7651249.stm
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