WingMakers Transformation

[Emman]

I came upon the Wingmakers site over three years ago. I felt a strong urging that made me seek out this information. I wasn't looking for the Wingmakers per se. I came upon it in my searching. Immediately, I was drawn in to the website and spent several months reading everything possible on that site. I even purchased Chamber 3 painting and had it framed and put on the wall in my house. I think that my experience with getting to know the Wingmakers materials was the start of a stage of an awareness that has blossomed to where I am at now.

After some months I began to have doubt about the Wingmakers. There were people who were saying that the original Wingmakers site changed into something else. It was "hijacked" according to people who followed the original 1998 website. I wasn't sure. I began to wonder if this were true. I began to wonder if this was a misinformation site designed to lead you down a false path. I began taking apart the Neruda interviews and Ancient Arrow Book to see if there was any hint of deception. Neruda spoke about the Incunabula in a way that appeared sympathetic towards it. I'm not sure if the Incunabula is the illuminati. I was thinking that it is (don't know). And if so, I found it disturbing Neruda was painting this cabal in a benevolent way. So, basically, after months of studying Wingmakers/Lyricus materials, I moved on, didn't look back, and didn't talk about it anymore with friends. Since that time of now three years I have been in this state of transforming my views of the world. I know the world is not as it seems. The journey has brought me here to Avalon via Project Camelot and countless other sites and sources for information, inspiration, and sobering reality. It continues.

I have come back to the Wingmakers recently. I listened to the interviews of James that were made in April this year. Just a week ago I listened to the third and last interview James gave. I must say that in spite of whatever doubts I have, I was very moved by it. I felt a deep resonance with what he said. Hearing him speak and listening to the eloquence of his answers to the interviewer's questions really had an impact for me. In a sort of long wide arc, I have come back to the Wingmakers site again to revisit it. This time with a new perspective and shift from where I used to be. The Event Temples is something I briefly glanced at when introduced about a couple years ago. I recently registered and will participate in it. In a way, the Event Temples is really similar in purpose to Project Avalon. It's a gathering of people who resonate with the material but want to shift the consciousness of humanity to the next stage of evolution.

Right now, I am open once again to the teaching of Lyricus/Wingmakers. I am less open now to channeled messages in general. Instead of trying to split hairs in the details of the mythological Ancient Arrow Book and Neruda interviews, I am allowing myself to open up to the broader concepts that resonate deep within me.

[NancyV]

Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree

The Wingmakers material resonated very deeply with me as does Lyricus and I meditate at the event temples a few times daily.

I do not see myself writing a paper like you did, I did purchase yours by the way chamber 17, it was excellent, very well done and informative. It enabled me to view the painting in an entirely new way. Thank you.

How can one continue to evolve with the materials without doing an in depth paper?

In the first discourse, it said we are not able to have transformative experiences in our human instrument.

Teacher: Haven't I just told you you cannot experience this state in the human instrument?
From Lyricus First discourse

So if we are not able to have them, how can we/you have the kundalini experience you spoke of?
I have been working on attaining this state for years, not to have it like a prize rather as a consequence from all the work I do on my shadow aspects, letting go all that is not me, or my pure state, to transcend my ego, but now I am confused hearing this.

I know it is not something we earn or work for it sort of just happens. It should also not be the focus of ones spiritual practice, But why does Lyricus state that it is impossible?

Also, I have a feeling that James is Dr Neruda. Have you ever felt that too? I hope to hear from you soon.
Love & Light

Saying that "you cannot experience this state in the human instrument" may not be contradictory, just confusing. I take it to mean that you must leave your body to experience "higher" states and perhaps your body must "die" in order to have access to the ultimate state of being, if there actually is one.

Yes, you can experience some very ecstatic kundalini openings, you can develop all kinds of powers while within the body. You are able to merge with the earth, see and feel trees grow and communicate, see other dimensions and beings while in this state of increased vibrational frequencies. But when you leave your body it's a whole different level of experiences.

The Teacher also goes on to say that even then it is not the full experience, because we are still attached to our body. He also speaks of losing your ability to live in the world if you pursue these experiences excessively.

I can definitely relate to that and have had at least two of the different levels of experiences, and perhaps 3.

First I left my body to travel on other planes/dimensions for about 7 years, at least once a week and sometimes much more often. I found that it was more and more difficult to live in the world and relate to the normal human activities.

Next I stopped leaving my body and began experiencing the kundalini, which actually was like being on fire for many months at a time. I had times of merging with the earth, saw different beings and dimensions (all while totally awake with eyes open), developed some telepathic abilities and other various sensory enhancements. It was EXTREMELY sensual and ALSO made daily life somewhat uncomfortable most of the time, although it was fantastic I must admit! I was prone to bursting out in laughter at any time, which could be somewhat inappropriate! LOL... But it was fun.

The third and somewhat different experience I had was a death experience when I "died" from loss of blood in childbirth. This time I went to a completely different place which seemed to be one of a lot less ego and separation than the dimensions/planes I traveled to when out of body. I was supposedly gone for 20 minutes or so. Was I really dead? Who knows. But the experience was very different than my normal out of body travels. The beings I was with seemed to have very little in the way of agendas, although they DID kick me out to come back here after telling me it was not yet my time to stay! That certainly seems like an agenda or part of a plan.

When consciously travelling out of body all beings I encountered had ego and agendas. Yes, they often were highly benevolent and loving beings, or at least seemed to be so, but there was still a "play" going on. Even when merging with other beings and becoming more of myself, I was just a more powerful and fulfilled "player".

I will be excited to find out what happens after permanently leaving upon the death of my body! I'm in no hurry to "die" but I also have no fear of the death of the physical body. It truly is like a small prison in many ways, even if you can travel out of body. I'm still not sure why I'm here and have no clue about anyone else. Of course I've entertained all the different theories, studied religions, philosophy, spirituality, etc. At times I have believed certain teachers, but no longer. I respect their views but at this point I have concluded that they may also not really know any more than I, and certainly they have no more ability to access higher states than any one else.

Nancy

[Gnosis5]

Thank you Emman, I follow this path too.

"To the pure all things are pure" -- New Testament

[TruthWillSetUFree]

Enman-

I don't know if you have read my posts regarding the sites but I too believe they are 'good' too.

I still would like a definitive answer to the NWO and United Nations references just for my own piece of mind. In light of what all of us here have been through in having everything we believed in stripped away, I believe it is of utmost importance.

I believe darkness can be transformed into light and believe this is primarily what the meditations are for, transferring healing energy to the grid of the planet and all its inhabitants.

I read what your post referred to and believe James explained why they put out a 'condensed' version because of people stealing the information and making it their own, as time went on they could add more to the true story as people were more receptive to it and the ones who stole it had an incomplete version. This made sense to me.

I can also see having compassion for the Illuminati instead of fear or hate because the negative is acting as a catalyst for change/evolution, still with all this in consideration, I would like a straight answer!

[Gnosis5]

I'm approaching my spiritual development with the knowledge that I got myself here -- with a little help from my "friends", ha! I agreed to that electronic implant(s) (well sort of), I punished myself for tricking others likewise (currently married to one of my "victims", lol). One error piled on top of another over multiple quadrillions of years resulted in my present condition. (Yes, I'm sure I did some things right too.)

Clearing is about going and looking at what one did to oneself and others and then getting over it and making changes as a result. My best sessions end with, "sigh, I don't have to do that anymore".

After I've cleared out a bunch of unconsciousness junk then my awareness can expand beyond the body state of mind, and the spiritual work will proceed faster. It should become more and more exponential but I can't say yet from my own experience, just hints of it.

Like yourself, I also have not yet seen any higher evolved beings who did not have their own caseload, god love them. Some of our prior "gods" are in the worst shape because their "godmakers" (spiritual technicians) designed in their failure too. Sort of like when GE designs in obsolescence.

In my imagination, the ideal spiritual state for myself would be to be able to be any where and no where at will, to bring my awareness down to the size of an atom or expanded out to encompass all that is, and everything in between. Sounds like a lifetime project, eh!

Originally Posted by NancyV

Saying that "you cannot experience this state in the human instrument" may not be contradictory, just confusing. I take it to mean that you must leave your body to experience "higher" states and perhaps your body must "die" in order to have access to the ultimate state of being, if there actually is one.

Yes, you can experience some very ecstatic kundalini openings, you can develop all kinds of powers while within the body. You are able to merge with the earth, see and feel trees grow and communicate, see other dimensions and beings while in this state of increased vibrational frequencies. But when you leave your body it's a whole different level of experiences.

The Teacher also goes on to say that even then it is not the full experience, because we are still attached to our body. He also speaks of losing your ability to live in the world if you pursue these experiences excessively.

I can definitely relate to that and have had at least two of the different levels of experiences, and perhaps 3.

First I left my body to travel on other planes/dimensions for about 7 years, at least once a week and sometimes much more often. I found that it was more and more difficult to live in the world and relate to the normal human activities.

Next I stopped leaving my body and began experiencing the kundalini, which actually was like being on fire for many months at a time. I had times of merging with the earth, saw different beings and dimensions (all while totally awake with eyes open), developed some telepathic abilities and other various sensory enhancements. It was EXTREMELY sensual and ALSO made daily life somewhat uncomfortable most of the time, although it was fantastic I must admit! I was prone to bursting out in laughter at any time, which could be somewhat inappropriate! LOL... But it was fun.

The third and somewhat different experience I had was a death experience when I "died" from loss of blood in childbirth. This time I went to a completely different place which seemed to be one of a lot less ego and separation than the dimensions/planes I traveled to when out of body. I was supposedly gone for 20 minutes or so. Was I really dead? Who knows. But the experience was very different than my normal out of body travels. The beings I was with seemed to have very little in the way of agendas, although they DID kick me out to come back here after telling me it was not yet my time to stay! That certainly seems like an agenda or part of a plan.

When consciously travelling out of body all beings I encountered had ego and agendas. Yes, they often were highly benevolent and loving beings, or at least seemed to be so, but there was still a "play" going on. Even when merging with other beings and becoming more of myself, I was just a more powerful and fulfilled "player".

I will be excited to find out what happens after permanently leaving upon the death of my body! I'm in no hurry to "die" but I also have no fear of the death of the physical body. It truly is like a small prison in many ways, even if you can travel out of body. I'm still not sure why I'm here and have no clue about anyone else. Of course I've entertained all the different theories, studied religions, philosophy, spirituality, etc. At times I have believed certain teachers, but no longer. I respect their views but at this point I have concluded that they may also not really know any more than I, and certainly they have no more ability to access higher states than any one else.

Nancy

[Emman]

Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree

Enman-

I don't know if you have read my posts regarding the sites but I too believe they are 'good' too.

I still would like a definitive answer to the NWO and United Nations references just for my own piece of mind. In light of what all of us here have been through in having everything we believed in stripped away, I believe it is of utmost importance.

I believe darkness can be transformed into light and believe this is primarily what the meditations are for, transferring healing energy to the grid of the planet and all its inhabitants.

I read what your post referred to and believe James explained why they put out a 'condensed' version because of people stealing the information and making it their own, as time went on they could add more to the true story as people were more receptive to it and the ones who stole it had an incomplete version. This made sense to me.

I can also see having compassion for the Illuminati instead of fear or hate because the negative is acting as a catalyst for change/evolution, still with all this in consideration, I would like a straight answer!

I just reread the last half of the 4th Neruda interview. Funny how I just randomly clicked the link and started reading. I think I may have found the explanation you are looking for regarding the NWO, UN, globalization, etc.
Here is the last statement Neruda made in the 4th interview:

Sarah: “Anything you want to say before we sign off?”


Dr. Neruda: “Yes.


“If you, the reader, wonder how the information I’ve presented about the Incunabula relates to all of the various conspiracy theories about the New World Order, intelligence community, Illuminati, Freemasonry, and all the other supposed clandestine organizations of the world, I would respectfully ask you to suspend your prior notions about the motivations of these various groups.


“These are not evil-minded organizations regardless of how some portray them. Their members have children and families just like you, and they take pleasure and disgust in the very same things as you do. They are humans with all the same weaknesses for vice and greed, but they also have a strong energy to improve the world, it is simply that their definition of what a better world is may differ from yours.


“If your interest is to conjure an antagonist for your amusement, that’s your prerogative. But the issues I’ve related tonight are too serious to be amusing. They are deserving of your attention and discernment. Do your own investigation into the energy supplies of our world. You may come up with different numbers than what I mentioned, but only because the technology of the ACIO is more advanced than the petroleum industry. Nonetheless, you’ll see confirmation of this general condition.


“Look at the current events of your time whenever you read this interview. You’ll see how this plan is progressing. It may seem to take detours, but the general course is what I’ve described. It is moving in this direction not out of accident or because of the whims of the world’s leaders, you can be sure. It is all part of the orchestration of events that are played out according to the well-designed blueprints of the Incunabula planners.


“You may feel a certain anguish that you’re being led to a future not of your choosing, but if you want to have influence, then you need to be educated and aware of the real forces that are defining your future. This is a free-will universe. There is no hierarchy of angelic beings guiding the destiny of earth. There is no ascended master who dictates the pathway to enlightenment for humanity or the individual.


“If you truly want to express and apply your freewill, make it a personal religion to know the facts. Learn how to look behind the stories that are being sold by the media and politicians, and form your own conclusions. Keep your doubt intact about everything you’re told from the political stage, especially when you’re induced to be patriotic. It is one of the clearest signals to be suspicious of what you’re being told.


“When enemies are created – especially new ones, be wary of the motivations of those who claim them to be enemies. Investigate the facts. Look under all the rocks and verify your evidence. Each of you must become investigators and learn the art of research and analytical study if you want to feel more a part of the movement to globalization.


“Your insights and understandings may not change humanity’s course one millimeter, but it will change your ability to feel a part of this migration and have a sense of where humanity is moving and why.


“And to those who prefer to strike out on their own path and believe that globalism is pure folly, I can only explain to you that it must happen. It is the outward expression of who we are and it is the natural progression of our species to unify around the inner essence of our identity, instead of the outer façade of our particular nation or religious belief.


“I believe everyone understands this to varying degrees, but it is the methods of this unification that concern people. And I share this concern. If we’re collectively informed about the plan and understand the end-goal is something that holds a great promise for humanity, we can pursue this goal with greater velocity and with added confidence that the methods will be in everyone’s best interest. This must be our goal.


“And finally, many of you may feel that globalization is a concept of the New World Order and therefore dismiss it as a movement borne out of greed and the lust for power. Yes, there are always those who will take advantage of this movement to achieve personal gain, but the reason to become a unified people on this earth is far greater than the personal gains of a few. Remember this as you read your conspiracy stories.


“I’m finished, Sarah. Thank you for your indulgence.”


Sarah: “Thank you for your comments.”


End of Session

[Gnosis5]

Perhaps the Ill-illumined know something we do not know and they are reacting to it and if we knew what they know then we might react the same too. History shows that none of us have been too good at solving problems.

For example, if you knew that you were in a big trap of someone else's design wouldn't you try to blow the trap up?

[TruthWillSetUFree]

Thanks Enman

This is why I kept having this niggling feeling that becoming global is not the enemy it is being purported to be. Thank you so much for posting that.

I have the First Source CD and where I got the interviews it only had three, is the 4th on the website?

Nancy- yes I can understand being out of body may be how the teacher is presenting that concept. Thank you for that.

In my own transformation I don't put much emphasis on experiencing anything as I am unattached from expectations. I have experienced many dimensions during my NDE and had the gift of experiencing a powerful energetic force within and why I was confused when it said the human instrument cannot experience this.
I continue working on myself to discard all that is not me through physical experiences and have learned much from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and through archetypal discovery of shadow aspects.

I too became my own teacher years ago as I knew I went as far as I could go with a teacher and the rest was on my own. I take information from those teachers that bring me back to my Self.

Gnosis I can totally relate and get my lessons daily from all the people in my lives who are a mirror in teaching me about myself!

Im sorry this is so rushed, I am going to the movies with my son to see The Changeling.

Much Love to all and thank you for such an enlightening conversation!

[Emman]

Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree

Thanks Enman

This is why I kept having this niggling feeling that becoming global is not the enemy it is being purported to be. Thank you so much for posting that.

I have the First Source CD and where I got the interviews it only had three, is the 4th on the website?

Nancy- yes I can understand being out of body may be how the teacher is presenting that concept. Thank you for that.

In my own transformation I don't put much emphasis on experiencing anything as I am unattached from expectations. I have experienced many dimensions during my NDE and had the gift of experiencing a powerful energetic force within and why I was confused when it said the human instrument cannot experience this.
I continue working on myself to discard all that is not me through physical experiences and have learned much from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and through archetypal discovery of shadow aspects.

I too became my own teacher years ago as I knew I went as far as I could go with a teacher and the rest was on my own. I take information from those teachers that bring me back to my Self.

Gnosis I can totally relate and get my lessons daily from all the people in my lives who are a mirror in teaching me about myself!

Im sorry this is so rushed, I am going to the movies with my son to see The Changeling.

Much Love to all and thank you for such an enlightening conversation!

Hi Truth,

Yes, the 4th interview is on the website. That 4th interview goes in depth about the PowersThatBe and what to expect in the next several years. That is now, since that interview was dated in 1997. It is very prescient to what is happening now. Neruda explains how the economy is going to fall. He nails it. It's what's going on now! I think that the last statement Neruda makes in the 4th and last interview is something to ponder:

“If you, the reader, wonder how the information I’ve presented about the Incunabula relates to all of the various conspiracy theories about the New World Order, intelligence community, Illuminati, Freemasonry, and all the other supposed clandestine organizations of the world, I would respectfully ask you to suspend your prior notions about the motivations of these various groups.


The thing about this viewpoint is that it is not in alignment with the voices of Jeff Rense, David Icke, Dr. Deagle, and the chorus of voices on Camelot and elsewhere that assumes that there is nothing but evil in the PTB's motives. It's a given that we've come to the conclusion that the illuminati, NWO, and their ilk are a bunch of Lucerferians/Satanists that want to reduce the human population 90 percent, destroying the Earth, and ultimately controling the remaining survivors. Neruda seems to be saying that not is all what it seems. Maybe the villains of our world are not as black and white as we believe them to be. I'm starting to feel that what I've invested myself in emotionally from the standpoint of certainty may not be so certain after all.

Neruda's sympathetic rendering of the core 5 of the Incunabula does throw me for a loop. But, as I reread his interview, he does not talk in absolutes. There are levels within these organizations that are populated with people with self-serving and evil motives. But, he believes that the top 5 of the Incunabula are enlightened and are really looking out for the highest good of humanity. I can't simply take his word on that. But, I may be able to suspend my prior notions about what I think globalization is.

Neruda ends the interview:

"And to those who prefer to strike out on their own path and believe that globalism is pure folly, I can only explain to you that it must happen. It is the outward expression of who we are and it is the natural progression of our species to unify around the inner essence of our identity, instead of the outer façade of our particular nation or religious belief.


“I believe everyone understands this to varying degrees, but it is the methods of this unification that concern people. And I share this concern. If we’re collectively informed about the plan and understand the end-goal is something that holds a great promise for humanity, we can pursue this goal with greater velocity and with added confidence that the methods will be in everyone’s best interest. This must be our goal.


“And finally, many of you may feel that globalization is a concept of the New World Order and therefore dismiss it as a movement borne out of greed and the lust for power. Yes, there are always those who will take advantage of this movement to achieve personal gain, but the reason to become a unified people on this earth is far greater than the personal gains of a few. Remember this as you read your conspiracy stories."

[Ashatav]

It's funny because a lot of ill-uminati thinks they are doing good, and some others, the ones who are in top of the pyramid knows the opposite.

All these organizations named by neruda are ill-uminati ones.

That's because they are followers of a being who are so deceptive that the organization run by him does everithing who is necesary to keep his folowers working.

See bill schnoebelen

C R Hamlett

Icke to.

Deagle

Cheers

[TruthWillSetUFree]

I think it is wise advice to research everything and realize everyone has an agenda. Once an agenda is formulated and established, such as an Alex Jones or David Ick it is much more difficult for them to turn around and change their minds especially when their reputation and lively hood is attached to it.

This globalization will happen you can see it everywhere and why the world is going through economic upheaval. There are those that will fight it tooth and nail, but I do not think that guns and fear and anger are the answer, that to me is of the old paradigm.

We can pioneer this new frontier by co-creating it and making sure those in government are adhering to constitutional freedom especially now as Truth is bubbling up to the surface and people are more aware of what is going on and the consequence of having blind faith in our leaders, we can demand full disclosure in their plans.

I also think the Olin technology sounds fascinating. The internet has brought the world together, I can only imagine how Olin will continue to enhance that.

Again everything in life can be used for either positive or negative means.
There will always be both in the world because we live in third dimension of duality until their is a major shift to 5th dimension.

My last point is that I believe people experience their lives according to their individual perception which comes from whatever level of consciousness they are at. If they are of victim mentality, not only will they tend to be victimized more but see victimization everywhere. I believe we attract that which we need to work on karmically as well as where we operate from such as survival/fear or love. This is a simplistic example as their are many layers to a human being.

I will continue to read the information on the Wingmakers site and thanks again to everyone for their very insightful input.

The movie The Changeling was awesome! Angelina Jolie is amazing as always. I think this is one of my favorite roles that she has done.

Love & Light to all.

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree

Enman-

I don't know if you have read my posts regarding the sites but I too believe they are 'good' too.

I still would like a definitive answer to the NWO and United Nations references just for my own piece of mind. In light of what all of us here have been through in having everything we believed in stripped away, I believe it is of utmost importance.

I believe darkness can be transformed into light and believe this is primarily what the meditations are for, transferring healing energy to the grid of the planet and all its inhabitants.

I read what your post referred to and believe James explained why they put out a 'condensed' version because of people stealing the information and making it their own, as time went on they could add more to the true story as people were more receptive to it and the ones who stole it had an incomplete version. This made sense to me.

I can also see having compassion for the Illuminati instead of fear or hate because the negative is acting as a catalyst for change/evolution, still with all this in consideration, I would like a straight answer!

Hi TWSUF,

Right now I'm very busy at unis. I will post on this as soon as I am able. Hopefully at the weekend...

Chris

[Gnosis5]

There are "good" and "evil" beings much higher than the ill-illumined. Ashatav, in all your many lifetimes you cannot say that you were always good. Besides, after you have bought into more experiences you will get to the point where the concept of good and evil is only a subset of something much more varied.

The ill-illumined may be dramatizing evil, and you are also dramatizing their evil, but when you finally get to the source of good and evil they disappear. Please ponder how that could be. I just came out of a session today that covered one of the earliest beginnings that reflects our condition today.

But if you need to let off steam we're here for you

best,
gnosis

Originally Posted by Ashatav

It's funny because a lot of ill-uminati thinks they are doing good, and some others, the ones who are in top of the pyramid knows the opposite.

All these organizations named by neruda are ill-uminati ones.

That's because they are followers of a being who are so deceptive that the organization run by him does everithing who is necesary to keep his folowers working.

See bill schnoebelen

C R Hamlett

Icke to.

Deagle

Cheers

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by Ashatav

Let's put the part of the interview in question

First, I put that Neruda says that the Wingmakes want the New World Order, I didn't say Neruda want NWO.

Second, if all the people in the world is perfect a global order will work, otherwise NOT, it just make a world incapable of oposing a global totalitarian state.

Hi Ashatav and TWSUF,

First: Nowhere in the WMM will you read that the WingMakers want the NWO. First realize that this was your deduction (that seemed to make sense to you at the time) from what you read. What the WingMakers want is a global culture, which is vastly different from what you presumably are thinking of with respect to the NWO. I have hopefully clarified this below.

Second: Even in the distant future all the people of the world will not be perfect. Perfect, or perfection, is something we ever evolve towards, not something we ever are; this goes for the greatest of masters too. I realize perfection is all in the perception, and that you probably mean relatively perfect, in as much as all people will have overcome -- to all intents and purposes -- their lower nature. Joseph Campbell best covers this when he discusses how there are basically two schools of philosophy/mythology:
1. Everything is imperfect. Not even Source is perfect because it is evolving on and created us to be instruments to help in that regard, so how can it then even be perfect. If it were perfect it would not need to further evolve; and 2. All is perfect. Source has everything programmed to eventually return to Its unity and perfection and everything on the way no matter how "awry" is all in its own way a perfect expression towards that becoming. Basically people with a hard life full of trials tend to side with the former and those with an "easy" life the latter.

As Neruda states, the people of the USA, and indeed the world, will never accept a global totalitarian regime. Even if they did history reveals that every totalitarian regime eventually decays, rots, or falls apart; they simply lack the dynamism of self-modification and creative sustainability. So even if the NWO that so many are fearful of coming to power were to do so it would not and could not last. But on to the specifics of your questions they are of such general interest to so many...

Sarah: "I also read the memo that Dr. Sauthers [a colleague of Dr. Neruda] wrote about a global culture being an outcome of this technology from the WingMakers' sites. But how could these objects be used to build a global culture? It seems a little naive to me."

Dr. Neruda: "All I can tell you is that it's related to the Internet and a new communication technology that the WingMakers referred to as OLIN or the One Language Intelligent Network. If you read the glossary section that I left behind, you'll see it referenced there. The WingMakers seem to feel confident that the OLIN technology will help create the global culture through the Internet. This incidentally is consistent with prophecies that the Labyrinth Group was privy to dating as far back as 1,500 years ago. Of course the enabling technology wasn't called OLIN, but the notion of a global culture and unified governance has been predicted for many centuries."

You can see here that the global culture the WingMakers are talking of is OLIN technology and it is fundamentally Internet based. They are not talking of politics, economics or power here, though we will get to that momentarily. The WingMakers arrived on the scene 3 years after the Net in 1995. One reason is because the net is the platform for OLIN and the global culture. OLIN will be in development for the next 700 years, by which time we will likely have something equivalent to the LERM experience available online. (For more on LERM and on this whole issue of the NWO see Neruda interview 4 at http://www.wingmakers.com/neruda4ex.html). This will be a culture that via the Net will be virtually -- as far as that is possible -- wired to Source online and, of course, it will be global, or worldwide, as is the WWW already.

We are in the infantile stages of this now. And as with any infantile steps there will be falls and crashes along the way and the process needs to be watched carefully to ensure things don't get too dangerous; but the end result is assured: we will eventually become an enlightened planet with a magnificent future. As this whole process begins to take root and transform our planet, as it is already, there will be the need for global uniformity. Right now this is minimal, but the Net will increasingly become an economic center too as more and more economics and personal finance takes place online.

I have some minimal involvement with a couple of companies here in Japan that will kick start this economic presence next summer as people in Japan and from around the world will be entering some real Japanese downtown department stores, businesses and shops (though not all) in 3D online and conduct their business and shopping there in 3D. It is, as I and these companies see it, the beginning of real world economies going online. The Net is evolving into 3D and the real 3D world is going online. NTT, Japan's equivalent of Telecom or AT&T, will also be putting literally 10s of thousands of its workers out of their real 3D offices and having them work from home in 3D online via avatars sometime next year. This technology and infrastructure is now in place here. This movement or change will likely IMO grow exponentially from next summer when it opens here in Japan.

Sarah: "[COLOR="Red"]This is what George Bush used to call the New World order isn't it? [/COLOR]

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but there have been four other presidents who've acknowledged this concept."

Remember this is in 1997. Sarah is not referring to the fear-instilling NWO of Net pop culture. Sarah knows virtually nothing about all of that. A bit later in the interview she says she read up on the Illuminati (after this session) apparently for the first time. Sarah is saying all that she knows about the NWO, which is that George Bush gave oblique mention to it in the press once or twice. She has no idea of what GWB's idea of the NWO is. Neruda confirms this oblique reference by stating that 4 other presidents have mentioned it too. Those other 4 presidents have different, though unstated in public, views concerning the NWO and their and GWB's role within it. Leaving any of the the presidents' own egomaniac delusions of power out of it (for they are obviously only held by that individual and the few believing in him) they are basically looking at a new kind of world governance which is primarily political and economic as distinct from the WingMakers' world culture. The latter will require some form of loose governance to ensure stability and especially individual personal and financial security and safety.

You see, the Net is basically empowering the individual, not the super powerful. The Incunabular didn't envision the Net; it threw them sideways; and IMO will continue to do so.

It's difficult finding someone now who doesn't know about the Illuminati and the NWO, and this is largely due to the presence of the Net and its ubiquity in our lives. There is even a wrestling team out there called the NWO -- or have they already passed into history?

The Net serves the individual not the powers that be (ptb). This trend will continue. The businesses that will stream into the 3D Net will be after the individual and will offer the individual all they can, because that's what makes successful businesses. The power is already with the individual and anyone associated with the Net on a practical basis is realizing this more each passing day. The reason is, there are 8 billion of us.

In another one of James's online papers (at Lyricus.org) it says that as the planetary frequency changes the Tribes of Light just leave behind the animus (not just the negative ETs but all those who are seduced by the aphrodisiac of power) who cannot function to their optimum in the new octave. It will favor those who are not so seduced, and whom traverse the change. I look upon the NWO as the economic dinosaurs about to go extinct as the neo-Cambrian Age of mankind gets under way.

Sarah: "What would make the world's people decide to unify under one governing body, or for that matter, create a global culture--whatever that means? I just can't envision it happening--not in my lifetime."

Dr. Neruda: "According to the WingMakers it will happen through the digital economy and then through the Internet's OLIN technology platform. And through this global network, entertainment and educational content will be globalized. This is the basis of a global culture with unified commerce, content, and communities. Once these pieces of the infrastructure are in place, then the need to govern this infrastructure will loom as the preeminent issue of the day. And the United Nations is the logical ruling body for such an endeavor. As long as the World's people allow the digitization of the economy and embrace the OLIN technology platform, a global government and culture is virtually assured to emerge."

Sarah: "And as you said last night, this is supposed to occur in 2018?"

Dr. Neruda: "According to prophecy, that's when the United Nations will hold initial elections for a unified world government. And it won't be an all powerful, centralized authority, but rather a global public policy decision and enforcement organization for issues that effect the world at large. Issues like pollution, global warming, border disputes, space travel, terrorism, trade, commerce, OLIN technology upgrades, and general technology transfer programs."

I don't see the problem here it seems pretty self-explanatory to me. This is clearly not the NWO of conspiracy posts. The UN has many mansions within its makeup. Many of these are NGOs that almost anyone can set up. There is no one person controlling everything going on in all of the UN and its associated bodies. The areas in green above that Neruda mentions are areas that the UN is likely to have dealings with and work towards if not bring about global agreements, and this will indeed be, if it is not already, necessary for the peaceful evolution of the global community. Otherwise everyone will be at each others throats clamoring for this and that.

Sarah: "So what will happen to National sovereignty in this new role of the United Nations?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'm willing to answer your question in the form of a speculative response, but I'm also aware that you had asked me at the outset of this interview to remind you if you got off course. What would you like --"

I could give a speculative response too but see no real need to. I also have to go out. It is obvious from Neruda's response that there is not an easy, cut and dried answer to this. So we can deduce national sovereignty will not just disappear, neither will it be maintained exactly as it is now. What will happen to it is essentially up to us. There are reasons for concern and Neruda expresses this too. Things could go awry, as they always can when change is instigated, and this is a one big change. Let's look at an analogy:

In the bible it talks in one of its revelatory chapters of a woman travailing in birth. This is our earth at this time. She travails in the birth pains of bringing forth a new life form, a new earth. Just as in any pregnancy there are dangers; there are things to watch for; things can go wrong, even drastically so. But it is important to keep ones eye on the major event. The child will be born. It is a glorious time. A time when heads must be kept cool, if only because the mother to be cannot keep cool. We need to watch to see all is as it should be. Should the baby turn and start to be born incorrectly actions need to be taken to prevent that; but it is essential that we the midwives of the earth now being born keep our perspective so we can properly guide this process to fulfillment and the best possible outcome.

On a personal note, being British by birth I am somewhat aghast at what has happened in Europe and the complete lose of representation let alone say anyone in England has over the governance of themselves as a part of Europe; but IMO this is a bureaucracy so totalitarian and inefficient that it is clearly living on borrowed time. I expect it to dissolve or decay into an ineffectual organization that will soon pass on the world stage. I am not in a position to do anything about the bureaucracy myself as I have no vote and have only even visited England for two weeks in the last 30 years. But as I see the most likely result the dissolution of the EU I'm not overly worried about its absurd bureaucracy. It also seems somewhat distant to me as I have no plans to return to that part of the world.

All rotten fruit eventually falls. It is usually best just not to touch it. I handle the ripe and healthy fruit wherever it may be in the global environment we are inheriting.

I will attempt to address other posts when I can. There some comments I could give for some of them, but I must go for now.

Chris

[TruthWillSetUFree]

Hi Chris

Thank you for your in-depth and informative reply to our questions.

During our inquiry, I believe many of us came to this conclusion, at least I did. Thanks for confirming this and providing additional information to learn from and to think about.

What are your personal ideas of 'prophetical' events to come in 2012?

There are so many to choose; Armageddon, Nibriru, pole shift and transformation into a 5th dimensional reality, among the most popular.

What about James being Dr Neruda? Any possibility of that?

Also, what about the fact that this information is primarily intended for the next three generations, I think I read somewhere starting with those born in the 1980's, correct me if I am wrong. It almost makes me feel that the old timers are not really part of this or have to reincarnate back into this next time around. Is there any validity to this?

Thanks for your time and knowledge Chris

Love & Light

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree

The Wingmakers material resonated very deeply with me as does Lyricus and I meditate at the event temples a few times daily.

I do not see myself writing a paper like you did, I did purchase yours by the way chamber 17, it was excellent, very well done and informative. It enabled me to view the painting in an entirely new way. Thank you.

How can one continue to evolve with the materials without doing an in depth paper?

Hi TWSUF,

It is not necessary to write papers like I did to continue to evolve with the materials. That is what happens with me but we are all different. Just immersing oneself fully in the material with the intent to come to learn what the truth is regarding our reality -- and the material itself -- should suffice. That's how I started and worked till 2001. This requires intense research (of whatever kind one is inclined) because there are many metaphors mixed in with the material making it material one cannot just accept or believe in at face value if one is honestly and rigorously searching for the truth.

I would also suggest that the research will likely be far more rewarding transformational wise and personally if the research is intended for more than oneself. I wrote my papers so certain answers would be there for all to benefit from if they wish. I did not start out my research of the WMM in this way, but when I realized I had to decode some of the paintings' meanings, it was not for myself alone, but for Mark Hempel and everyone else investigating the materials.

Having said this, there are IMO catalytic images and semiotics within the paintings that greatly assist in the transformational process.

I do not recommend anyone just accept what I have written, but rather question all I have written in the greatest detail. This will ensure the reader's, or researcher's own immersion, and consequent development of their own fluid intelligence as they find even more or greater truths, because I have not, by any means, written the last word on these paintings, and I'm sure there must be some errors somewhere within my texts.

In the first discourse, it said we are not able to have transformative experiences in our human instrument.

Teacher: Haven't I just told you you cannot experience this state in the human instrument?
From Lyricus First discourse

So if we are not able to have them, how can we/you have the kundalini experience you spoke of?

This is also further explained within the early philosophies. The real Transformation is experienced only at the Sovereign Integral level. What the human instrument (HI) experiences is but a slight breeze from the greater transforming storm at the Sovereign Integral level.

In the transformation that the HI experiences s/he does not experience the Sovereign Integral (Sov Int) state or what the Sov Int actually is. That is just too far removed from the human domain.

There is another paper of James' entitled The Living Truth (I cannot find the link and it may not be open to the public yet) in which James relates the story of a young musician who wants to compose a piece of music so divine it will give anyone who listens to it this experience. The young man eventually has this experience, which is not quite the way he expected. So there is an example there of someone having this experience, this time via a musical lifelong commitment to help others.

You will note he -- and if you look around the world to all who have had this experience it is the same for them all -- wished this for others rather self. Others have had similar experiences while engaged in total absorption on some project for the benefit of all.

There is an accompanying feeling of, "Yes. This is what I have to do. This is fantastic. This is my destiny. This will help everyone." It is partly because of these thoughts that there is no personal thought of the transformation when at this stage. That is just not important. What you are doing is so interesting, engaging and fulfilling that nothing else really matters, not that one ignores daily duties; in fact they are probably performed with greater gusto and enthusiasm than ordinarily because one is in "real time" so to speak, where one is really alive.

It is usually at this time that transformation occurs, if it is to occur. The WMM, however, seems to provide a pathway whereby anyone can experience some degree of this transformation usually at a more general pace, because it is so loaded with biological catalysts. For example:

"The neurobiology of consciousness"
from
http://protoscience.wikia.com/wiki/L...kers.2FLyricus

Biologists such as Francis Crick [6] have suggested that all of the information-processing capacities normally attributed to souls can be accounted for by conventional physical processes that take place within brains. According to this view, the commonly held idea that souls can have some existence beyond the conventional materials of the human body is an illusion, also traceable to conventional brain physiology and brain-generated experiences.

The Wingmakers material points to the same part of the brain that people such as Crick have suggested is important for human consciousness. "There is within the thalamocortical system what scientists refer to as the reticular thalamic nucleus (nRt). It's widely accepted by neuroscience that nRt plays a vital role in the judicious regulation of the flow of neural information between the thalamus and cortex. What is not understood is how specific sensory information (light frequencies, sound frequencies, rhythmic synchronization, ULF, symbolic images) can influence how the ILN and nRt systems inter-operate to form a hybrid functional cluster that enhances fluid intelligence and accessibility to the Genetic Mind." (source: see question 1 at this webpage)

I have been working on attaining this state for years, not to have it like a prize rather as a consequence from all the work I do on my shadow aspects, letting go all that is not me, or my pure state, to transcend my ego, but now I am confused hearing this.

I know it is not something we earn or work for it sort of just happens. It should also not be the focus of ones spiritual practice, But why does Lyricus state that it is impossible?

I'm not so sure you don't work for or earn it. It is, in simple terms, very much a Eureka experience. It would seem illogical for that to happen with no input by oneself.

There could be many reasons why the teacher says what he does to the student. To mention just a few:

1. It is only a very small section of the populace that ever experience this, just as it is only ever a small section of the populace that excel at anything specific, be it playing the piano, or performing scientific or mathematical research. The teacher may sense that this person is not such a one and that for him he is wasting his time thinking about it.
2. There may be greater needs and goals for this person. These still might be spiritual in nature, but different in kind.
3. He may be so far from this experience -- even given it will happen in his lifetime -- that again it is pointless thinking about it at this time.
4. He may have any number of weaknesses that need attending, like a lack of concentrative ability, or lack of ability to focus clearly on one subject to plumb its depths, or make some breakthrough. In which case he will need more general training in meditation and other disciplines before he will be able to trigger this experience through providing some meaningful service to others in a breakthrough of some kind; or again he may just be the type of person who is to experience the changes in a gradual manner, and these are by far the majority and there is essentially nothing less or more about either way.

Also, I have a feeling that James is Dr Neruda. Have you ever felt that too?

I answered this earlier under St Clair's thread (here or at Camelot) before the site was reorganized. Perhaps it is in the archives somewhere or maybe those private pages were erased.

I did once so think, yes, but James is not Neruda. I had to change my initial paper 6 to reflect that back in 2001. In the original, published at Osaka University of Arts I had to enter errata notes in the bulletins because it was printed from the aspect of the two of them being the same person. Oopps! On one level Neruda may function as a metaphor for James in as much as both represent the "messenger" and the one who gets the information on the Web. In the story Neruda is now an old man, however, whereas James is fairly young. Mark was quite insistent that they were/are two different people and I realize now -- and since 2001 -- that they indeed are different. The AA Book is full of metaphors.

When all of your interests in life come together within your work for the public, others, or the world, whatever it is, the transformation will be at your door; but you won't be aware of it because you'll be having such a wonderful time. So don't worry about it. Maybe yours will come at the Event Temples or somewhere else where you find yourself one day unknowingly totally fulfilling yourself because you are so absorbed in what you are doing for everyone.

A pleasure to talk with you TWSUF.

Chris



I hope to hear from you soon.

Love & Light[/QUOTE]

[hueyii]

Originally Posted by Ashatav

It's funny because a lot of ill-uminati thinks they are doing good, and some others, the ones who are in top of the pyramid knows the opposite.

All these organizations named by neruda are ill-uminati ones.

That's because they are followers of a being who are so deceptive that the organization run by him does everithing who is necesary to keep his folowers working.

See bill schnoebelen

C R Hamlett

Icke to.

Deagle

Cheers

Thoughts are energy. Feeding energy to the reality of conspiracy perpetuates it. Starve it of this energy and it shall pass. There are many feeding energy to the reality that "they" are out to get us. In my reality "they" are just souls who have forgotten who they are. As such "they" use their creative powers in an attempt to manifest who they think they are. This is not in harmony with oneness and serves no higher purpose. Thus it will pass.

The sooner we stop giving power to this false reality, the sooner we can evolve to the next stage. A reality where there are no secrets.

Just my point of view. Hope it persuades those who read it to start thinking in terms of unity instead of division.

[becky]

When all of your interests in life come together within your work for the public, others, or the world, whatever it is, the transformation will be at your door; but you won't be aware of it because you'll be having such a wonderful time. So don't worry about it. Maybe yours will come at the Event Temples or somewhere else where you find yourself one day unknowingly totally fulfilling yourself because you are so absorbed in what you are doing for everyone.

A pleasure to talk with you TWSUF.

Chris




Wow Chris, you are such a gift to this forum and in my life right now. Thank you for all the work you have done on yourself--for us. I just took this above quote and put it on my wall. I find it to be profound.
Heaps of LOVE,
Becky

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by Ashatav

It's funny because a lot of ill-uminati thinks they are doing good, and some others, the ones who are in top of the pyramid knows the opposite.

All these organizations named by neruda are ill-uminati ones.

That's because they are followers of a being who are so deceptive that the organization run by him does everithing who is necesary to keep his folowers working.

See bill schnoebelen

C R Hamlett

Icke to.

Deagle

Cheers

Hi again Ashatav,

With all due respect to Dr Deagle there is IMO no one being at the head of the Illuminati. Dr Deagle is somewhat influenced by his religious upbringing, as are so many others. This early training in the formative years can be extraordinarily difficult to eradicate from ones thinking on all levels, which makes it very difficult to engage in clear thinking with no preconceived ideas; and even more difficult for the development and usage of "uncontaminated" fluid intelligence. In my own experience it took more than all my 10 years exposure to such early religious conditioning to fully overcome it. Just when you think you're over it you can notice a concept rising from a psychological box or drawer hidden way down somewhere that has never been brought into the open for full re-examination in the light and truth of day.

There were IMO certain people/beings definitely influencing the Illuminati. And these were likely the Giza intelligences described by Meier and the Plejaren that also influenced Hitler and so many other worldly leaders and groups. These beings were removed from this planet in the latter part of the twentieth century and now, being in exile on a distant planet with no technology, can exert no influence whatsoever on the earth.

IMO the Illuminati is currently the proverbial chicken running around with its head cut off. It's ultimate power source has been erased but the organization is still functioning on its own auto and purely terrestrial mode now. Although their size is still large they just do not have the power they once had or the mad leadership.

Some of its prominent leaders have left and even turned up at Camelot with Bill and Kerry, so it has definitely lost its appeal, and power of control over its common terrestrial leadership. IMO it's now just another dinosaur on the way to extinction, though it still does possess great power and exerts considerable influence on worldly affairs.

[eaglespirit]

Originally Posted by Chris1617

IMO the Illuminati is currently the proverbial chicken running around with its head cut off. It's ultimate power source has been erased but the organization is still functioning on its own auto and purely terrestrial mode now. Although their size is still large they just do not have the power they once had or the mad leadership.

Some of its prominent leaders have left and even turned up at Camelot with Bill and Kerry, so it has definitely lost its appeal, and power of control over its common terrestrial leadership. IMO it's now just another dinosaur on the way to extinction, though it still does possess great power and exerts considerable influence on worldly affairs.

Here! Here! Chris, Thank You!

We ARE coming together as never before around the world!
And let me add that this is simply "Oneness" taking hold and it does not have to be misconstrued as 'global' or 'new world'(government/controllers/nwo terms) ...because it is simply a spiritual awakening taking hold through each individual's decisions from the heart to help themselves and those right in front of them see the "clarity" of Oneness on Mother Earth by deciding to live that Oneness right in front them.

You, Me, Us...changing the world to Oneness one beautiful and loving and selfless act at a time right in front of Us! : ) : ) : )

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree

Hi Chris

Thank you for your in-depth and informative reply to our questions.

During our inquiry, I believe many of us came to this conclusion, at least I did. Thanks for confirming this and providing additional information to learn from and to think about.

You are very welcome, TWSUF, and thank you. Those of you who posted the extracts from Interviews 3 and 4 helped with this, of course.

What are your personal ideas of 'prophetical' events to come in 2012?

There are so many to choose; Armageddon, Nibriru, pole shift and transformation into a 5th dimensional reality, among the most popular.

There's certainly a lot of talk out there, isn't there? I do think there is a likelihood of something occurring sometime between 2010 and 2013. I few years ago I saw a vision of the near future which was rather strange. The city road I saw represented the road of the future. It was clear up to 2010 and then the road entered a gray fog, although the roadway was somewhat sunny. I couldn't see beyond 2010, neither could I see anything in that time. I took this to mean that I, at least, could not see what would be happening, and maybe no one could. It may be an as yet -- at that time -- unwritten script.

Having said that, I have long wondered whether this will be the time that the planet experiences its transformation, or frequency change. If so all will feel it, though not all will transform their consciousness as the planet does, yet they may still stay here on the planet. Transformation comes to each when they are ready; it is not determined for each by the planet. This may be another metaphor in the AA Book; and I think there may well be scientists somewhere that are working together with certain ETs who collectively will trigger this event, not knowing 100% what they are doing or what the results will be (the BST metaphor).

I do not think this will be the time for Armageddon or a pole shift. The pole IMO is slowly shifting already and will continue to do so almost permanently. It won't cause drastic overnight events, but will cause the planet's populace to reorganize geographically in the future, again somewhat gradually, probably after our lifetimes.

It is partly because of our political and economic systems functioning on a 4 year time scale that popular time focus is never more than 4 or 5 years away. The populace generally think everything is going to happen in 4-5 years time. People find it difficult to believe things are farther out than that in time, partly because they sense these things are going to happen and partly because our time focus is habitually so short. IMO Armageddon -- if it is to occur -- is farther out than 2013. This is not an opinion that is likely to be popular or agreed upon by many. Most want to believe that all will be much better after 2012; that we are home and dry then, so to speak.

I see 2012 as the time of our real testing. It is not just that particular time that the test comes, but rather that at that time we will make our collective decision as a planet which will determine whether in the future decades we experience the greater, better world or whether we run on into Armageddon.

I will reveal more on all of this in my book so will not say more here. It is not necessary to do so at this time and timing of release of information is actually very important.

I do think it possible there could be some big events around 2012, but for me it is our time of decision more than anything else. Which road will we take?

IMO Planet X is not coming to the earth again, ever and will not be here around 2012. While this is very good news, there are other enormous challenges we do or will face IMO. Planet X/Nibiru is a very confusing issue to explain, but again I will cover this in my book. There are some good posts on Nibiru and Sitchin on this or the Camelot forum somewhere. I have posted once or twice there, I believe.

Also, what about the fact that this information is primarily intended for the next three generations, I think I read somewhere starting with those born in the 1980's, correct me if I am wrong. It almost makes me feel that the old timers are not really part of this or have to reincarnate back into this next time around. Is there any validity to this?

Thanks for your time and knowledge Chris

Love & Light

Well, I'm pushing 60 and I've gained tremendously from the WMM, so I guess there's plenty for everyone of any age. I think I am proof that anyone can experience transformation to some degree from the WMM.

IMO "primarily intended for the next three generations" means that it is in these generations that the pivotal and seminal discoveries and developments will be made in the areas of brain science, genetics, technical devices for detecting and measuring subtle energies and frequencies etc that result in the Grand Portal. These will require a number of specially gifted, what we would call geniuses, to incarnate. I do not think this is talking about the transformation as I or any others have or may experience it.

Chris

[TruthWillSetUFree]

[I]When all of your interests in life come together within your work for the public, others, or the world, whatever it is, the transformation will be at your door; but you won't be aware of it because you'll be having such a wonderful time. So don't worry about it. Maybe yours will come at the Event Temples or somewhere else where you find yourself one day unknowingly totally fulfilling yourself because you are so absorbed in what you are doing for everyone.

A pleasure to talk with you TWSUF.


Thank you again for all your wonderful words of wisdom.

I can see I have additional reading ahead of me before I ask anymore questions! I have read everything but the philosophies, the 4th Neruda interview and glossary so far.

I have been seeking Truth for so many years when I came upon Lyricus and read the discourses it was an unbelievable experience of both confirmation of what I have always believed and wisdom that provided additional insights for me. I felt I had found my home.

Learning about tptb this past year had helped me transcend a heap of fear that I had accumulated, still in the midst of it, I felt the conspiracy realm, with it's negative emotional response, was not what I was being taught and that it was of the old paradigm. In my heart I knew that unconditional love was the answer within this seeming battle of light and dark. Not gushy, emotional, sappy love, but love that is strong, fearless and co-creative. I knew there was a safe place, not a place in the world, but within myself that I longed to find, consequently, finding the websites has brought me to this place within, that I am now preparing with the help the information from James.

Since then, again as this seems a frequent occurrence, this has been confirmed to me as I have read the papers on the Event Temples site that align with the intuitive guidance I had received. I am now in the process of devouring the Wingmakers website.

I am happy about the age thing! Your answer provided excellent reasoning for the time table represented. It was another part that was a bit confusing since I was a child, I knew I was here to bring healing light to others, then as an adult, to the world, so I am happy to know I wasn't born too soon! LOL...that's a joke!

Much Love & Light to everyone here. Thanks again Chris, for what you bring to the site.

Please let us know when/where we can purchase your book!

[Ashatav]

Originally Posted by Chris1617

Hi again Ashatav,

With all due respect to Dr Deagle there is IMO no one being at the head of the Illuminati. Dr Deagle is somewhat influenced by his religious upbringing, as are so many others. This early training in the formative years can be extraordinarily difficult to eradicate from ones thinking on all levels, which makes it very difficult to engage in clear thinking with no preconceived ideas; and even more difficult for the development and usage of "uncontaminated" fluid intelligence. In my own experience it took more than all my 10 years exposure to such early religious conditioning to fully overcome it. Just when you think you're over it you can notice a concept rising from a psychological box or drawer hidden way down somewhere that has never been brought into the open for full re-examination in the light and truth of day.

There were IMO certain people/beings definitely influencing the Illuminati. And these were likely the Giza intelligences described by Meier and the Plejaren that also influenced Hitler and so many other worldly leaders and groups. These beings were removed from this planet in the latter part of the twentieth century and now, being in exile on a distant planet with no technology, can exert no influence whatsoever on the earth.

IMO the Illuminati is currently the proverbial chicken running around with its head cut off. It's ultimate power source has been erased but the organization is still functioning on its own auto and purely terrestrial mode now. Although their size is still large they just do not have the power they once had or the mad leadership.

Some of its prominent leaders have left and even turned up at Camelot with Bill and Kerry, so it has definitely lost its appeal, and power of control over its common terrestrial leadership. IMO it's now just another dinosaur on the way to extinction, though it still does possess great power and exerts considerable influence on worldly affairs.

Dr deagle isn't religious, see it in the camelot interview.

The same plejadian that says that the earth must have at max 500 millions of persons just like the controllers of the illuminati? That "beings" tell billi meyer that the illuminati is a dinosaur institution? Who say that?

Some proof that the illuminati are dead please.

Cheerzo

[Ashatav]

Originally Posted by Chris1617

Hi Ashatav and TWSUF,

First: Nowhere in the WMM will you read that the WingMakers want the NWO. First realize that this was your deduction (that seemed to make sense to you at the time) from what you read. What the WingMakers want is a global culture, which is vastly different from what you presumably are thinking of with respect to the NWO. I have hopefully clarified this below.

Second: Even in the distant future all the people of the world will not be perfect. Perfect, or perfection, is something we ever evolve towards, not something we ever are; this goes for the greatest of masters too. I realize perfection is all in the perception, and that you probably mean relatively perfect, in as much as all people will have overcome -- to all intents and purposes -- their lower nature. Joseph Campbell best covers this when he discusses how there are basically two schools of philosophy/mythology:
1. Everything is imperfect. Not even Source is perfect because it is evolving on and created us to be instruments to help in that regard, so how can it then even be perfect. If it were perfect it would not need to further evolve; and 2. All is perfect. Source has everything programmed to eventually return to Its unity and perfection and everything on the way no matter how "awry" is all in its own way a perfect expression towards that becoming. Basically people with a hard life full of trials tend to side with the former and those with an "easy" life the latter.

As Neruda states, the people of the USA, and indeed the world, will never accept a global totalitarian regime. Even if they did history reveals that every totalitarian regime eventually decays, rots, or falls apart; they simply lack the dynamism of self-modification and creative sustainability. So even if the NWO that so many are fearful of coming to power were to do so it would not and could not last. But on to the specifics of your questions they are of such general interest to so many...



You can see here that the global culture the WingMakers are talking of is OLIN technology and it is fundamentally Internet based. They are not talking of politics, economics or power here, though we will get to that momentarily. The WingMakers arrived on the scene 3 years after the Net in 1995. One reason is because the net is the platform for OLIN and the global culture. OLIN will be in development for the next 700 years, by which time we will likely have something equivalent to the LERM experience available online. (For more on LERM and on this whole issue of the NWO see Neruda interview 4 at http://www.wingmakers.com/neruda4ex.html). This will be a culture that via the Net will be virtually -- as far as that is possible -- wired to Source online and, of course, it will be global, or worldwide, as is the WWW already.

We are in the infantile stages of this now. And as with any infantile steps there will be falls and crashes along the way and the process needs to be watched carefully to ensure things don't get too dangerous; but the end result is assured: we will eventually become an enlightened planet with a magnificent future. As this whole process begins to take root and transform our planet, as it is already, there will be the need for global uniformity. Right now this is minimal, but the Net will increasingly become an economic center too as more and more economics and personal finance takes place online.

I have some minimal involvement with a couple of companies here in Japan that will kick start this economic presence next summer as people in Japan and from around the world will be entering some real Japanese downtown department stores, businesses and shops (though not all) in 3D online and conduct their business and shopping there in 3D. It is, as I and these companies see it, the beginning of real world economies going online. The Net is evolving into 3D and the real 3D world is going online. NTT, Japan's equivalent of Telecom or AT&T, will also be putting literally 10s of thousands of its workers out of their real 3D offices and having them work from home in 3D online via avatars sometime next year. This technology and infrastructure is now in place here. This movement or change will likely IMO grow exponentially from next summer when it opens here in Japan.



Remember this is in 1997. Sarah is not referring to the fear-instilling NWO of Net pop culture. Sarah knows virtually nothing about all of that. A bit later in the interview she says she read up on the Illuminati (after this session) apparently for the first time. Sarah is saying all that she knows about the NWO, which is that George Bush gave oblique mention to it in the press once or twice. She has no idea of what GWB's idea of the NWO is. Neruda confirms this oblique reference by stating that 4 other presidents have mentioned it too. Those other 4 presidents have different, though unstated in public, views concerning the NWO and their and GWB's role within it. Leaving any of the the presidents' own egomaniac delusions of power out of it (for they are obviously only held by that individual and the few believing in him) they are basically looking at a new kind of world governance which is primarily political and economic as distinct from the WingMakers' world culture. The latter will require some form of loose governance to ensure stability and especially individual personal and financial security and safety.

You see, the Net is basically empowering the individual, not the super powerful. The Incunabular didn't envision the Net; it threw them sideways; and IMO will continue to do so.

It's difficult finding someone now who doesn't know about the Illuminati and the NWO, and this is largely due to the presence of the Net and its ubiquity in our lives. There is even a wrestling team out there called the NWO -- or have they already passed into history?

The Net serves the individual not the powers that be (ptb). This trend will continue. The businesses that will stream into the 3D Net will be after the individual and will offer the individual all they can, because that's what makes successful businesses. The power is already with the individual and anyone associated with the Net on a practical basis is realizing this more each passing day. The reason is, there are 8 billion of us.

In another one of James's online papers (at Lyricus.org) it says that as the planetary frequency changes the Tribes of Light just leave behind the animus (not just the negative ETs but all those who are seduced by the aphrodisiac of power) who cannot function to their optimum in the new octave. It will favor those who are not so seduced, and whom traverse the change. I look upon the NWO as the economic dinosaurs about to go extinct as the neo-Cambrian Age of mankind gets under way.




I don't see the problem here it seems pretty self-explanatory to me. This is clearly not the NWO of conspiracy posts. The UN has many mansions within its makeup. Many of these are NGOs that almost anyone can set up. There is no one person controlling everything going on in all of the UN and its associated bodies. The areas in green above that Neruda mentions are areas that the UN is likely to have dealings with and work towards if not bring about global agreements, and this will indeed be, if it is not already, necessary for the peaceful evolution of the global community. Otherwise everyone will be at each others throats clamoring for this and that.



I could give a speculative response too but see no real need to. I also have to go out. It is obvious from Neruda's response that there is not an easy, cut and dried answer to this. So we can deduce national sovereignty will not just disappear, neither will it be maintained exactly as it is now. What will happen to it is essentially up to us. There are reasons for concern and Neruda expresses this too. Things could go awry, as they always can when change is instigated, and this is a one big change. Let's look at an analogy:

In the bible it talks in one of its revelatory chapters of a woman travailing in birth. This is our earth at this time. She travails in the birth pains of bringing forth a new life form, a new earth. Just as in any pregnancy there are dangers; there are things to watch for; things can go wrong, even drastically so. But it is important to keep ones eye on the major event. The child will be born. It is a glorious time. A time when heads must be kept cool, if only because the mother to be cannot keep cool. We need to watch to see all is as it should be. Should the baby turn and start to be born incorrectly actions need to be taken to prevent that; but it is essential that we the midwives of the earth now being born keep our perspective so we can properly guide this process to fulfillment and the best possible outcome.

On a personal note, being British by birth I am somewhat aghast at what has happened in Europe and the complete lose of representation let alone say anyone in England has over the governance of themselves as a part of Europe; but IMO this is a bureaucracy so totalitarian and inefficient that it is clearly living on borrowed time. I expect it to dissolve or decay into an ineffectual organization that will soon pass on the world stage. I am not in a position to do anything about the bureaucracy myself as I have no vote and have only even visited England for two weeks in the last 30 years. But as I see the most likely result the dissolution of the EU I'm not overly worried about its absurd bureaucracy. It also seems somewhat distant to me as I have no plans to return to that part of the world.

All rotten fruit eventually falls. It is usually best just not to touch it. I handle the ripe and healthy fruit wherever it may be in the global environment we are inheriting.

I will attempt to address other posts when I can. There some comments I could give for some of them, but I must go for now.

Chris

So many words, without a subtantial answer... Just can't hide that NERUDA SAY THAT THE BUSH' NEW WORLD ORDER IS WHAT THE WINGMAKERS WANT.

"
Sarah: "This is what George Bush used to call the New World order isn't it?

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but there have been four other presidents who've acknowledged this concept."
"

I realize that the people who really runs the new world order idea (intradimensional beings and "ultra-human" beings) Are extremely clever because I realize it asking a lot of informed people about the Urantia book and All of them say that book is a scam.

A lot of the Wingmakers material Come from that book.

Is so easy to scam people being one of those beings who really runs the New World Order idea.

Cheers, why do you write so much and do not point the problem about that Neruda accept that the wingmakers want is the New World Order? The next time I will not read it, isnt' good to any eye!

So odd...

[Chris1617]

Originally Posted by Ashatav

Dr deagle isn't religious, see it in the camelot interview.

Hi Ashatav,

If you listen to the interview you hear he uses religious words that carry definite religious meanings, irrespective of whether or not he has a religion.

The same plejadian that says that the earth must have at max 500 millions of persons just like the controllers of the illuminati?

Yes; but the Plejaren say mankind must do this voluntarily in only humane ways of just reducing the number of births until that number is attained, because beyond that number the world enters into a non ecological condition of consuming more than the planet produces, and this eventually leads to disaster if the population continues increasing as ours is, with the exception of China, Japan, and perhaps a few others who are experiencing population reductions right now. There should according to them be no unnatural ways of reducing the population.

I assume the the NWO you talk of has plans to reduce the world to that number in completely inhumane and evil ways against the laws of the universe, assuming that version of them is correct. There is no comparing these two methodologies; they are poles apart.

That "beings" tell billi meyer that the illuminati is a dinosaur institution? Who say that?

I'm sorry Ashatav, I'm just not sure what it is you are trying to say here. My post makes it quite clear that the idea of the Illuminati being like a dinosaur heading for extinction is IMO (in my opinion) and that is all. It's just my opinion.

Some proof that the illuminati are dead please.Cheerzo

No one here has said the Illuminati is dead.

This is going off topic. Let's stick with the topic of this thread which is the WingMakers Transformation. I realize I have gone off topic too in answering some questions here, so this comment is aimed at myself as much as anyone else. This is not a thread for all my ideas or opinions (or all anyone else's), but for people to share their experiences of transformation with the WingMakers material and to discuss same.

Thank you,

Chris