The Bible question

[beren]

These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:

What do you think of Bible?
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Why people connect Bible with religion?
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?


Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...

Now really WHY on all above?

[Ammit]

Originally Posted by beren

These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:

What do you think of Bible?
I personaly think the bible was a truth but having been modified so many times, who now knows the truth of it?
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
I dont know?
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
I never have and do not plan to either?
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
I dont know, its a book but who knows if it is actually truthfull?
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
I wont discredit anything that I do not understand.
Why people connect Bible with religion?
I connect the bible with religion simply because when ever religion is mentioned to me , so is the bible.
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
I dont avoid it, simply never read it in its entirety.
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
because of whispers?, tell some one something, ask them to pass it on. You wont get the same story at the end of the line.
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Dont know.
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Because we humans cannot agree.
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
Maybe it is written in a way that we want to read it


Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...

Now really WHY on all above?

Well , these are my honest answers, they come from someone who sits on the fence, some one who needs to see what is there, some one who can read the latest novel and say, um, that was good. I never have read the bible, i do not yet plan too soon either. If I decide to gain a faith of any sort it will be with my heart involved and not my head.

[TheObserver]

1 it's just a book
2 people take it too seriously
3 because of the readers with superiority complexes
4 of course not
5 perhaps they they know it's just a book and who say's they're unsuccessful
6 it's a religious text
7 perhaps other things are on their minds
8 people think it's more than a book
9 define root out
10 again superiority complex
11 which of it's many sometimes conflicting messages

[beren]

Originally Posted by Ammit

Well , these are my honest answers, they come from someone who sits on the fence, some one who needs to see what is there, some one who can read the latest novel and say, um, that was good. I never have read the bible, i do not yet plan too soon either. If I decide to gain a faith of any sort it will be with my heart involved and not my head.

Thanks Ammit for honesty!



I would add on your last sentence that I think a man should use both his head and heart... they come in pair ,don`t they?

[Ammit]

My head could be confused, or read something wrong. However my heart would surely show the way.

[beren]

What do you think of Bible?
I think it is a word of God
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
because they are scared of certain things written there
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
sheer stupidity
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
of course not
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
they do not like the truths said there, and they are not successful because we see that despite great effort Bible is still a very sought after book
Why people connect Bible with religion?
because religion was attached to it very early in human history and also religion use it as cloak for their deeds
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
they are scared that somebody will label them as Christian loonies
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
because it tells the truth and simply some can not tolerate that but they are not succeeding in their effort against the Bible
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
above answer matches really and it is not successful since of divine intervention throughout centuries
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
because of capability of an eye opener to people and religion can not allow that because it looses greatly the submission of masses and their wealth
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
because it is holy spirit who inspired it ,not human mind


That are my answers...

[Ammit]

Beren , I mean no dissrespect when i ask these questions.

Do you think god would have given man a choice?

Do you think god would have been interested in promoting his book like a pedlar?

Would he still love man even if the book was rejected?

[beren]

Originally Posted by Ammit

Beren , I mean no dissrespect when i ask these questions.

Do you think god would have given man a choice?

Do you think god would have been interested in promoting his book like a pedlar?

Would he still love man even if the book was rejected?

Those are excellent questions!

God HAS given man a choice. We chose this reality but with choice comes responsibility so we are living our choice now.

No, I think God did enough to promote his word through ages ,when time comes for setting the bills right no one would have an excuse that he or she did not know. After all it`s been translated into all spoken and a lot of dead languages, it was printed in almost 6 billion copies and many more things.
Virtually,every person on planet in one point of their life have a chance to meet with God`s word. It is up to them what will they choose. Someone may not physically have or read the Bible but if they came in touch with the message from other people and really believe in or dis believe in it ,then all was covered so to say.

No one will be able to excuse themselves in the future that they didn`t know...

The point is not in the book itself, the point is in the message from that book.
Many hate or throw the Bible point because they do not understand or have a bad experience with "churchianity"...
Bible is above that.

"For God so loved a man that he even gave his son for their redemption "
I believe I made a good quote...

[m1*]

Originally Posted by beren

What do you think of Bible?

I think it's the most valuable text ever printed. It was penned by man but inspired of God. I have never, in my life, read a more profound, intelligent, wise and spiritual book. If I had to go somewhere for a long time and be allowed only one possession, I would take the Bible with me.

Originally Posted by beren

Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?

In short, there's two main reason. The first is that people have been burned by "religion" -- and often brought up in "religion". They've never really read the Bible themselves, with any amount of diligence. They just watched all the hypocrite church gowers around them from a young age, and figured: "Well that's how Bible people are, I don't want a part of that". So they are literally turned away from a God that they never got a chance to know because of hypocrites. However, God will call them back once they've learned their lessons.

The second reason is that some people just can't stand the thought that there is a creator and that Jesus Christ is savior. These people, through pride, ego and self centeredness (even though the claim the opposite from mountain tops) flatly refuse to understand that they are the "created" not the "creator". These people want to be the creators and they want to decide, without restraint, what they do and what they choose to do. This is a rebellious spirit which is rampant on earth. What they don't understand is that they are children, and need guidance. If they knew all there was to know about using their own discernment, they wouldn't have been placed on this earth to learn. Yet they run around declaring themselves to be AS Gods -- just like Satan. His whole problem in the first place is that he wanted to take God's thrown (and he was thrown out of the heavens for it). So this is a very dangerous attitude.

Originally Posted by beren

Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?

It is because they look at televangelists, and cult leaders and door knockers like JW's and Mormons, they look at how hypocritical these people and churches are and they make the assumption that that's what the Bible has caused and they pin it all on God, unfairly. However, they don't understand that these pseudo Christian churches are not conducting themselves according to God's word and are an abomination.

The only way to understand the Bible and have a relationship with God is to sit down and read it, through diligent prayer. However, most people (especially these days) are far to busy to bother doing that. They don't mind channeling lesser beings though. ie: "guides", which (by their own admission) can be evil and lead them astray. I don't know why they don't simply meditate on the "source" - "The Alpha and the Omega". If all these Guides exist, surely there must have been a FIRST. That is God. It's all rather simple really - but pride gets in the way.

Originally Posted by beren

Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?

Most people prefer to spend their energy exclaiming how terrible the Bible is, by projecting the deeds of man onto it, instead of simply reading it and finding out that man (from the beginning) has acted in contrast to the principles of the Bible.

Originally Posted by beren

Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?

They think they're successful. But it's very hard to argue with an ignorant person. I've learned that there's no point. I will spent time with someone if they want to discuss the Bible, but if they're not interested, I have no will to force them. The first thing I tell people is don't listen to me - go and read it yourself. Ask God for discernment. That is why I shake my head when people accuse me of trying to spread my "beleifs". I have only one "beleif": "Read the Bible" - find out what's in it. Pray for discernment. I have nothing much more to say other than that. However, it is sad they the continue to belittle people who DO take the time to read the Bible (and understand, the best they can -- through prayer) it and have a relationship with God, even though they (themselves) have only the vaguest idea of what's actually in it. Some people belittle the Bible and they've never even held one in their hands.

Originally Posted by beren

Why people connect Bible with religion?

This is a huge problem. This is why I constantly say on the forums: "I am not religious". I will declare that Jesus is Lord. I will relate my experiences to my understanding of the Bible. But that doesn't make me religious! It is a tremendous display of utter ignorance when people start using the word "religion and religious" around me for even mentioning the name: Jesus or God. The Bible is not a religion. It is a text. It is unfortunate that man has made religions from the Bible. It is even more unfortunate that people pin the misdeeds of man on the Bible, when they are acting in CONTRAST to it.

Originally Posted by beren

Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?

Quite simply, because they don't have the patience and can't be bothered to find out what the Bible actually says. It's all too hard for them. That's why the Bible says: "The path is narrow". They would rather take the easy road (with bells and whistles), and belittle people who have read the Bible and have developed a relationship with God, THROUGH reading it.

Most people only know a few cleche verses of the Bible, which they use to deflect conversation of it. It surprises me how many - people "quote the Bible" with words that aren't even in it. Then they wonder why you're trying to explain to them that they don't know anything about the Bible. They don't understand that you can easily tell.

Originally Posted by beren

Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?

Because (as the Bible states) this world is currently controlled by Satan and his demons. They cannot stand people to develop a relationship with God, so they persecute anyone who does read the Bible and live according to its wisdom to scare the others away. Otherwise, they try to corrupt the Bible "reader" and then possess them, so that they can turn people away via that method. ie: Catholic Church. This is why so many of them like little boys. They're possessed!

Originally Posted by beren

Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?

Because it is the word of God, and no one can root out this word - no matter how hard they try. This world has housed a putrid stench of evil since the beginning, and that evil cannot stand the words: "Jesus is Lord", and if those words could be eradicated, it would most certainly have been done by now. No one will ever undermine the will (or word) of God.

Originally Posted by beren

Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?

Quite simply, because the Vatican is a satanic organization founded on Pagan roots, that adopted Christianity because they couldn't get rid of it. There's an old saying: "If you can't beat them, join them". Then, the Roman Catholic church did it's very best to use the words of the Bible to control the people. However, they did not like the idea of people reading the Bible for themselves, so they "told people what the Bible says" and burned or persecuted people who said anything different (ie: what the Bible actually SAYS). This practice is still alive today, throughout pseudo Christianity.

Originally Posted by beren

Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?

I hear time and time again -- the old cleche: "Oh the Bible has been written and rewritten. The original meaning is lost". Actually, the Bible (KJV) was translated ONCE, from the original Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew texts. Also, I do believe that God (in his power) has the ability to keep the words that he wants in there.

I notice that practically every religion and church these days is making their own "revised" versions. Well, they can keep them because I'll stick with the KJV which has been in print for hundreds of years. I do not believe that God would allow the most widely circulated (and original "Non Catholic" version) of the Bible (translated from the original Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew) to have been leading people astray for hundreds of years. So I am quite content with the KJV.

[14 Chakras]

Perhaps some choose to connect to the Living Word in their hearts rather than ancient words on paper that have led to so much bloodshed and confusion.

[Stargazer1965]

Originally Posted by beren

These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:

What do you think of Bible?
OT is the recipe for tyranny...NT is the diluted road map to ascension

Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Let's see is the priest chasing little boys and girls...or the tyrannical nun beating little kids with rods...Things I would not do to a dog..Welcome to Christianity...table for 2...will that be hitting to non-hitting section

Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
I DARE because i lived it...smelled it ...breathed it...and in the end whatever message that was in there never made it through the guilt and abuse...So yeah ...I DARE

Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
PLease see above

Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Aesop's fables are still around but I don't believe slow and sure Tortoise got the blue ribbon

Why people connect Bible with religion?
I saw it in all the pews.....

Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?


Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...

Now really WHY on all above?

I have to give up....this isn't good for my soul...

You get where I was going...

[m1*]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

Perhaps some choose to connect to the Living Word in their hearts rather than ancient words on paper that have led to so much bloodshed and confusion.

Chakras, the Bible never lead to bloodshed and confusion. It is the sinful nature of man that lead to bloodshed and confusion.

Here is what I would like you to do. Find a part of history (where there was bloodshed and confusion), and then find the part of the Bible which declares that's how people should behave.

There ARE parts of the Bible where God did declare that certain people declare war. However, God is a righteous God and if he commands that evil be eradicated -- then so be it.

Nevertheless, these were in ancient times and are few. It doesn't explain why humanity, throughout the ages, have warred with each other (without the command of God). It doesn't explain why so many hypocrites use the Bible for their own means.

WAR exists between good and evil. God allows evil to persist, only while it serves the purpose of letting people learn their lessons.

If you want to understand the Bible, I highly insist that you read it. However, it is unfair to say that all the problems of man are cased by the Bible - because if man adhered to God's word, there would be no suffering.

We cause our suffering on ourselves. It is not fair to blame God, or his word.

[bellsisland]

Originally Posted by beren

These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:

What do you think of Bible?
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Why people connect Bible with religion?
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?


Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...

Now really WHY on all above?

I think the old and new testament is a code.
People freak out when discussing it because it is a code.
People who bash a book that have never read are ill informed.
Please explain Judicable, I do not understand.
People who discredit the bible just increase its' mystery.
People connect the bible with religion because it is considered to be the words of God and Jesus.
I have never met anyone who avoided talking about the bible.
The bible is respected and reviled, which only increases its' mystery.
If you mean root out the bible in the sense of saying it's not true a lot of people do that quite successfully.
I am not sure the Catholic church murdered and tortured over the mass consumption of the bible. Perhaps this occurred when the Protestants reformed? Thankfully Christianity rose above the restrictions to the general public having their own personal copies of the bible.
I wouldn't say the message is perfectly clear.
Why is the bible so popular? Because it is a code and a living code at that.

[777 The Great Work]

The bible or apple is a book of fruit that is hidden from the profane.It is a sacred fig tree,which hides its fruit beneath the leaves of the literal interpretations. As a woman hides her sacred parts beneath the garment ,or apron of fig leaves,so is wisdom.

Its a beautiful piece of music,in which the end is the beginning.The highs and lows and crash of the symbols,band all things together.It is not a book of history,it is a book of Now. Its the book of the Supper man of the red and blue.Its about you

[14 Chakras]

I'm not getting the pictures 777 but I agree with you generally speaking.

I agree the bible is indeed symbolic, and it is a story about us overcoming our own darkness, growing in consciousness, finding the saviour within, the Christ consicousness within, hearing and heeding it's voice, overcoming the carnal mind / ego, picking up our own cross and walking it to the top of the hill, where we give up the spirit / ego as Jesus gave up the spirit, and are reborn as the Living Christ, who we really are, Sons and Daughters of the infinite.

[Zeddo]

Originally Posted by beren

These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:
Now really WHY on all above?

What do you think of Bible?
It is a compilation of texts that have been altered and re-altered to suit the manipulators. This was primarily accomplished in circa 380
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Because you are dealing with their direct belief construct. If you take this away from them and they are spiritually shallow, they no longer have anything off which to base reality as they understand and know it.
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
Being self opinionated is a means of them who are spiritually dead to have a say. They wish to be seen as sages, etc when they actually do not have a clue.
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
I do not understand this question.
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Success or lack of has different measurements, it all depends on what your approach is, what your argument is, what your belief is. It also depends on whether or not you have an open mind and what you regard as truth. You also need to clarify your standpoint as to what you mean by the bible being discredited. Discredited as the infallable word of god? What exactly?
Why people connect Bible with religion?
Because the two are inseparable.
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
They would have to answer this for themselves, it is not for us to answer for others and their lack of viewpoint in this subject.
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
When you have the means that the PTB have at their disposal and you have an end game agenda, you would ensure that the single most important document driving this agenda was spread far and wide. Add to that the scenario of telling a child they are not to do something.....yes, they will go and do it. Burn a book and everyone wants to know what was being held from them. Ban a book and everybody wants a copy. Psychological games.
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
You need to explain this in more depth. The simplistic answer is that it is the prime tool of the end-game.
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Same as previously stated. I suggest you study this more in depth as it was not only "christian" sects that murdered (and still do) in the name of their god. This is not the sole franchise of christianity and the bible.
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
Once again, clarity is required in this question. What message exactly are you talking about. The message varies from old to new testament, clearly. Do you mean the one about Jesus being the way the truth and the life, the only way to eternal life? Please explain.


Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...

I can't say I know your answers as I haven't read your posts. I went through my religious fervor many years ago and usually refrain from this topic. This one however asked for interaction and hence my replies, for what they are worth.

Z

[orthodoxymoron]

Q. What do you think of Bible?

A. It is a collection of many books...with both good and evil content.

Q. Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?

A.Because it is represented as being the ultimate authority for faith and practice (indeed the very Word of God)...and because it promises eternal life and heaven to those who believe and obey...and threatens hell and/or death to those who doubt and disobey. With the stakes being represented as being this high...the fact that the messages are conflicting and contradictory...makes people go crazy...sometimes literally.

Q. Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?

A.Because so many people have been hit over the head with so many 'thus saith the Lord's' by so many Bible-thumping zealots who think they're right...and everyone else is wrong. They don't want to go near a book that seems to make people act like that.

Q. Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?

A. Guilt by association.

Q. Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?

A. Many people's minds are made up...and they do not wish to be confused by the facts. 'A man convinced against his will...is of the same opinion still.'

Q. Why do people connect Bible with religion?

A. Because religious people read and quote Bibles...and because religious schools are often called Bible Colleges.

Q. Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?

A. Because they don't want to get into a shouting match.

Q. Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden?

A. Because of the volatility of the messages contained therein...and the explosive implications and ramifications.

Q. Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?

A. Because people do not wish to be forbidden access to that which they consider to be forbidden truth.

Q. Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?

A. Because this threatened the authority and absolute power of Mother Church.

Q. Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?

A. I'm not sure that the message is crystal clear. Look at the number of churches in the Yellow Pages. Each one thinks they have the correct interpretation of that crystal clear message.

Please don't misunderstand. I think that everyone should read the Bible...but I do not think that educated people dressed in suits and robes...should play god...control, repress, and generally screw people up with the 'Word of God'...in Churches of Ignorance and Intolerance. In fairness...I am equally harsh regarding New Age Messiahs...Channeled Wisdom from Ascended Masters...and Thousand Dollar Transformational Weekends.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are an interesting tangent to the Holy Bible. Why have 'they' been so very secretive and restrictive about them? Also...who really decided upon which books should be included in the 66 books of the Bible Canon? Any hidden agendas or redactions? Why aren't the Teachings of Jesus considered to be the Christian Canon?

The 'Word of the Son of God' (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit Within) is God's Word to me...orthodoxymoron.

[m1*]

Originally Posted by 14 Chakras

I'm not getting the pictures 777 but I agree with you generally speaking.

I agree the bible is indeed symbolic, and it is a story about us overcoming our own darkness, growing in consciousness, finding the saviour within, the Christ consicousness within, hearing and heeding it's voice, overcoming the carnal mind / ego, picking up our own cross and walking it to the top of the hill, where we give up the spirit / ego as Jesus gave up the spirit, and are reborn as the Living Christ, who we really are, Sons and Daughters of the infinite.

Chakras, that's not what the Bible says. According to the Bible, we cannot overcome our own darkness. We're detached from the living vine (through sin), which we do not have the power to overcome ourselves. So Jesus (who is perfect) came to earth to 1). Teach us how to behave and act and to worship the father 2). Die for us (in our place) to atone us of our sins and give us an opportunity to be grafted back onto the living vine (should we accept). To accept, all we need to do is look at how he demonstrated love and to do our best to apply that in our own lives.

Jesus did say that once we pass through this life, we will be "as" he is. ie: Able to perform miracles. This is of course, conditional, on whether we chose to love. However, we wont BE Christ. Only Christ is Christ. Unfortunately, you are mixing up a lot of new age philosophies with God's word -- and they are contrary to God's word.

However, as far as I understand the Bible, you did get one right.

"We really are, Sons and Daughters of the infinite" (ie: God - The Creator, The Alpha and the Omega, The Beginning and the End)

[Zeddo]

Originally Posted by m1*

Chakras, the Bible never lead to bloodshed and confusion. It is the sinful nature of man that lead to bloodshed and confusion.

Here is what I would like you to do. Find a part of history (where there was bloodshed and confusion), and then find the part of the Bible which declares that's how people should behave.

There ARE parts of the Bible where God did declare that certain people declare war. However, God is a righteous God and if he commands that evil be eradicated -- then so be it.

Nevertheless, these were in ancient times and are few. It doesn't explain why humanity, throughout the ages, have warred with each other (without the command of God). It doesn't explain why so many hypocrites use the Bible for their own means.

WAR exists between good and evil. God allows evil to persist, only while it serves the purpose of letting people learn their lessons.

If you want to understand the Bible, I highly insist that you read it. However, it is unfair to say that all the problems of man are cased by the Bible - because if man adhered to God's word, there would be no suffering.

We cause our suffering on ourselves. It is not fair to blame God, or his word.

M1, I suggest you really and URGENTLY study this subject at great depth. This is not the place (or maybe it is, who knows) for this subject to be broached. There are MANY explicit scripture\s where "God" tells his "people" to take no prisoners, to kill the men and children and women who are past the age of procreation and even all the animals.
I suggest that you do not use this forum for the furtherance of christian belief as there are forums specifically designed for this topic where the sheep can all go baaaaaah together.
This forum was meant for the awakening of the masses, not the dumbing down of them.

Now where is that person who said they didn't see an onslaught from the religious right wing?

Before you decide to attack me, understand that I talk from MANY years of very active church affiliation and I was not a pew warmer. I was one of the few who really did believe and acted on those beliefs, that is, laying hands on the sick and seeing them recover (yes I was party to many miracles), going out to the "heathen" where others were too scared to go and "spreading the word" etc. I did not walk away from that very lightly and without great consternation, so please, if you try to preach to me, forget it. I have been there, and DONE it. Now may I suggest you find a more suitable forum for this.

Z

[dolphin]

Originally Posted by m1*

Chakras, the Bible never lead to bloodshed and confusion. It is the sinful nature of man that lead to bloodshed and confusion.

Here is what I would like you to do. Find a part of history (where there was bloodshed and confusion), and then find the part of the Bible which declares that's how people should behave.

There ARE parts of the Bible where God did declare that certain people declare war. However, God is a righteous God and if he commands that evil be eradicated -- then so be it.

Nevertheless, these were in ancient times and are few. It doesn't explain why humanity, throughout the ages, have warred with each other (without the command of God). It doesn't explain why so many hypocrites use the Bible for their own means.

WAR exists between good and evil. God allows evil to persist, only while it serves the purpose of letting people learn their lessons.

If you want to understand the Bible, I highly insist that you read it. However, it is unfair to say that all the problems of man are cased by the Bible - because if man adhered to God's word, there would be no suffering.

We cause our suffering on ourselves. It is not fair to blame God, or his word.

why do you constantly assume people have not read the bible from those who disagree w you? you use that as an argument everytime.

you completely contradict yourself when claiming that there are instances where "god" allowed people to declare war. you make no sense and are really sounding like religious dogma.

we are all gods, and there is no such thing as "good and evil".... that was for the uneducated masses centuries ago... there's positive and negative energy.

wow, you really are a bible thumper

zeddo, very articulate.

[m1*]

Originally Posted by Zeddo

I suggest that you do not use this forum for the furtherance of christian belief as there are forums specifically designed for this topic where the sheep can all go baaaaaah together.

Zeddo, I was replying to a post with my views.

Originally Posted by Zeddo

This forum was meant for the awakening of the masses, not the dumbing down of them.

Now where is that person who said they didn't see an onslaught from the religious right wing?

I am not religious. I am not trying to conduct an onslaught. I am responding to a thread, sharing my views as I understand them.

Originally Posted by Zeddo

Before you decide to attack me,

I am extremely dismayed with your response to me, but have no wish to attack you.

Originally Posted by Zeddo

understand that I talk from MANY years of very active church affiliation and I was not a pew warmer. I was one of the few who really did believe and acted on those beliefs, that is, laying hands on the sick and seeing them recover (yes I was party to many miracles), going out to the "heathen" where others were too scared to go and "spreading the word" etc. I did not walk away from that very lightly and without great consternation, so please, if you try to preach to me, forget it. I have been there, and DONE it. Now may I suggest you find a more suitable forum for this.
Z

Zeddo, I understand that you have developed a hatred for religion. But you'll be pleased to understand that I share that hatred. You're preaching to the choir -- really. I know that religion turns more people away from God than any atheist ever could. I have stated as such.

I have no wish to belittle you or become angry at you, because I can see clearly that you're already angry and upset enough. All I ask is that you reconsider what you have written to me, because you seem to have misunderstood my views and my purpose here.

You'll find that the vast majority of my threads have absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. There are a few discussions (within my threads) where I was accused of being a bible thumper, but I didn't ask for that. The topics weren't even about the Bible - nor did I intend them to be.

I don't want to see this topic get hijacked by the hatred of religion. It is one topic out of thousands. It is a Biblical topic. People are going to share their biblical views. You should try to allow it and not get so upset.

[beren]

Originally Posted by Zeddo

M1, I suggest you really and URGENTLY study this subject at great depth. This is not the place (or maybe it is, who knows) for this subject to be broached. There are MANY explicit scripture\s where "God" tells his "people" to take no prisoners, to kill the men and children and women who are past the age of procreation and even all the animals.
I suggest that you do not use this forum for the furtherance of christian belief as there are forums specifically designed for this topic where the sheep can all go baaaaaah together.
This forum was meant for the awakening of the masses, not the dumbing down of them.

Now where is that person who said they didn't see an onslaught from the religious right wing?

Before you decide to attack me, understand that I talk from MANY years of very active church affiliation and I was not a pew warmer. I was one of the few who really did believe and acted on those beliefs, that is, laying hands on the sick and seeing them recover (yes I was party to many miracles), going out to the "heathen" where others were too scared to go and "spreading the word" etc. I did not walk away from that very lightly and without great consternation, so please, if you try to preach to me, forget it. I have been there, and DONE it. Now may I suggest you find a more suitable forum for this.

Z

Guys,guys, I got to go to sleep now it`s 3AM here! I will gladly type tomorrow!

P.S.

Zeddo

I will especially answer you because you are the first who started with "hate" comments...Please refrain from them.
And be over your personal thinkings...if you manage that in this conversation then you are very welcome,if you wanna fight,forget it!
I think this forum is sheer jewel where people threat others with respect no matter how different their attitudes are. That is the one of the reasons why after whole year of reading I decided to be active here.
Let us all keep that,let us destroy utterly hate because it is not constructive matter.

Love and blessings,
Beren

[beren]

Originally Posted by dolphin

why do you constantly assume people have not read the bible from those who disagree w you? you use that as an argument everytime.

you completely contradict yourself when claiming that there are instances where "god" allowed people to declare war. you make no sense and are really sounding like religious dogma.

we are all gods, and there is no such thing as "good and evil".... that was for the uneducated masses centuries ago... there's positive and negative energy.

wow, you really are a bible thumper

zeddo, very articulate.

Dolphin ,that counts for you too as well as for Zeddo...

See you all tomorrow!

[m1*]

Originally Posted by dolphin

why do you constantly assume people have not read the bible from those who disagree w you? you use that as an argument everytime.

you completely contradict yourself when claiming that there are instances where "god" allowed people to declare war. you make no sense and are really sounding like religious dogma.

we are all gods, and there is no such thing as "good and evil".... that was for the uneducated masses centuries ago... there's positive and negative energy.

wow, you really are a bible thumper

zeddo, very articulate.

Dolphin. I respect you - but not your attitude.

Please try to be nicer. That's all I will say.

I have no will to argue with you and I don't want to give you reason to follow me around on the forum typing insult after insult.

You can't stand the Bible or the deity of God.

Ok - I get it.

[dolphin]

this is quite a turn off as i don't think avalon is about discussing religious dogma. i agree w zeddo, as m1, you are turning avalon into your own personal journal. how many posts are all about you and your beliefs. and if anyone disagrees you attack them.

this is not what avalon is for. take your religion and bible to a church or fundamentalist forum.