Senate passes bailout

Waterman · 10-02-2008, 04:44 AM

Here is the link

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

I really don't know what to say.

Oiran · 10-02-2008, 05:11 AM

Wow. I wish I could say, 'I'm shocked.'

"The House is expected to take up the Senate measure for a vote on Friday, according to aides to Democratic leaders. The legislation, if passed by the House, would usher in one of the most far-reaching interventions in the economy since the Great Depression.

Advocates say the plan is crucial to government efforts to attack a credit crisis that threatens the economy and would free up banks to lend more. Opponents say it rewards bad decisions by Wall Street, puts taxpayers at risk and fails to address the real economic problems facing Americans.

"If we do not act responsibly today, we risk a crisis in which senior citizens across America will lose their retirement savings, small businesses won't make payroll ... and families won't be able to obtain mortgages for their homes or cars," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., moments before the vote... Now the fate of the bailout rests with the House."

Taken from, "Senate passes bailout"
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Also:

"In a historic vote, the Senate approved a massive $700 billion rescue plan for the nation's finance system Wednesday night, but only after tacking on another $110 billion in tax breaks to lure votes from both parties."

Taken from, "Senate passes massive $810 billion bailout"
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/poli...ry/709715.html

lehomonuka · 10-02-2008, 06:54 AM

WASHINGTON -- In a historic vote, the Senate approved a massive $700 billion rescue plan for the nation's finance system Wednesday night, but only after tacking on another $110 billion in tax breaks to lure votes from both parties.

"WTF" If this isn't the equivilent "Let Them Eat Cake!"

Today, I know how our founding fathers felt while marching up the gang planks in Boston

besttools · 10-02-2008, 07:13 AM

I know it sounds sad, especially for the US taxpayers, but that was a fact that the gov will do that and this gets approved.

I remember seeing somewhere on this forum a message from George Green where he said he'd been informed that they will not explode the bubble this year. They decided to grow it even more, until the next year.

That is why when the bailout was stopped at first attempt I was expecting a "candy", and another attempt. Even if this version of bailout plan will not pass the House of Rep-s (if I understand the US legal procedure correctly), they will give another "candy" - but they are absolutely sure to get this thing through.

I am really not a financial expert, but think that more and more people will start to use this kind of debt collecting tips - I do not say this is a solution, but this is already a trend.

MMe M · 10-02-2008, 07:39 AM

"WTF" If this isn't the equivilent "Let Them Eat Cake!"

Today, I know how our founding fathers felt while marching up the gang planks in Boston

[/QUOTE]

Too right, and then the French had themselves a nice little revolution. Interestingly enough it was similar circumstances that preceeded the revolution.

What was that oath they all took again? Something like I will defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

Oiran · 10-02-2008, 07:49 AM

Wtf is right:

"The more Congress examines the Bush administration's bailout plan, the hazier its outcome gets. At a Senate Banking Committee hearing Tuesday, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle complained of being rushed to pass legislation or else risk financial meltdown... In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy...

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

Taken from, "Bad News For The Bailout"
http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/09/2...23bailout.html

Sol Invictus · 10-02-2008, 07:58 AM

Being a UK citizen I can see this from a 'wide angle' and its not looking at all pretty.

To be honest, the Boston tea party started over less than this, and I really fear that the greedy elite have raped the USA dry, and now are finalising a plan to forever enslave its people into such deep debt servitude that it will take a revolution to over come it.

Just knowing who holds the debt reins scares me, and i don't live in the USA!

lucrum · 10-02-2008, 08:14 AM

Reading what major newspapers in my country writes about this, it angers me. To me it looks like they do not research this at all. They tell it as a universal truth that accepting this rescue/bailout-plan is the right thing to do.

It's great scale fear mongering going on, with all the speak of catastrophy and whatnot if the bill ain't passed. I feel anger filling me when seeing news about Bush saluting the senate, for doing what he feels right/what he wants. To me, a leader of a nation should not do this. It just supports the suspicion that this is more than a rescue, if no rescue at all.

As long as the world is so split in opinions about this plan, it means it can't be all good. Experts or not, the common man isn't always senseless.

I'm no american but I can still feel for the american people, and my gut tells me this is no good for you guys.

My thoughts go to you all, let's hope this ain't going through.

GenerationIke · 10-02-2008, 09:45 AM

Vive le Revolucion!

We must or we will be enslaved. This is the vision George Washington was given at Valley Forge. Not just World War III, but the enslavement of his country by powers that refused to be uprooted.

We must, as Ben Fulford decried, pluck out the eye, cut of the head, off this hideous monster before it's too late.

Bigleap · 10-02-2008, 10:48 AM

This video should be compulsory viewing for every adult.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html

lehomonuka · 10-02-2008, 11:24 AM

GenerationIke
I absolutely agree w/fulford, but my only concern is HOW

Steve_A · 10-02-2008, 12:14 PM

Hi Sol Invictus,

The problem is that this package was approved far too fast, starting out as a three page document to being 450 pages long, over the space of five days.

It's only after the horse has bolted you start to question.

The Senate says it's making billions available in tax relief. Some of the bumpf I heard are things like tax relief for wooden arrow makers. I mean how many wooden arrow makers are there out there? They could have 'offered' 1 billion dollars for this type of enterprise but there are no 'takers', so it doesn't make any difference if the offer was made or not in the first place. It's like when Yahoo! first offered 20 giga of space for their free e-mail account. Who will use 20 giga? Or the Apple device that can store 5.000 songs. We all know that we only listen to five or six of them. Even if we wanted to listen to 5.000songs, we probably just wouldn't have the time.

If the banks have no liquidity due to bad debt, and credit has stopped (as they say so that we can all understand, "to buy cars, homes and student loans", are we to assume that this 1 trillion dollar bailout will put the liquidity back? I mean, in simple terms, there must only be 1 trillion dollars now available for loans not only "to buy cars, homes and student loans", but also to small businesses etc., and that after 1.2 trillion was wiped off the price of these companies only two days ago which would bring us to -.2 trillion.

The Senate stated that the bailout was necessary to put credit back out onto the street, but bad credit is bad credit. In any economy, only good creditors will be able to get credit, right? Of course now it will get a little tighter, but even so, only good creditors will get credit. So in general, nothing on main street will change, except that the banks will start to identify bad creditors unless the banks move back to being cavalier with money.

Raising the 'insurance' for bank collapses from 100,000US to 250,000US is just like offering the tax relief to the arrow makers. Which average American Joe has a quarter of a million dollars in a bank account? (It's the Yahoo! or Apple mentallity again).

I think the real reason for the bailout is to temporarily put liquidity into banks so that they are Basel II compliant and be able to trade internationally. Basel II was implimented some years ago and the vast majority of American banks ignored their obligations, one of which was to have a minimum credit liquidity.
The deadline set for this compliance was set for, beleive it or not, 1st of October 2008.

I'm sure there are other reasons and I think the work of this forum should be to get a group together to try and correlate all the different information, to try and get the big picture out there.

Best regards,

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

Being a UK citizen I can see this from a 'wide angle' and its not looking at all pretty.

To be honest, the Boston tea party started over less than this, and I really fear that the greedy elite have raped the USA dry, and now are finalising a plan to forever enslave its people into such deep debt servitude that it will take a revolution to over come it.

Just knowing who holds the debt reins scares me, and i don't live in the USA!

Steve_A · 10-02-2008, 12:23 PM

Hi Everone,

Following is a list of Senators voting Yea:

Akaka (D-HI)
Alexander (R-TN)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burr (R-NC)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Thune (R-SD)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)

Best regards,

Steve

MMe M · 10-03-2008, 08:49 AM

Yeah there the creep is and my state is the worst in the union for unemployment. Its a ghost town here, every other house is abandoned and that sob is just shoveling the dirt on the grave faster. I sent him a letter.

Thats it. Im gonna run. How much worse could I do?

Chinderland · 10-03-2008, 01:13 PM

US Senate is purely a rich man's club. They are not representative of American people in any sense.

10-02-2008, 04:44 AM	#1
Waterman Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 345	Senate passes bailout Here is the link http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes I really don't know what to say.

10-02-2008, 05:11 AM	#2
Oiran Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: California Posts: 57	Re: Senate passes bailout Wow. I wish I could say, 'I'm shocked.' "The House is expected to take up the Senate measure for a vote on Friday, according to aides to Democratic leaders. The legislation, if passed by the House, would usher in one of the most far-reaching interventions in the economy since the Great Depression. Advocates say the plan is crucial to government efforts to attack a credit crisis that threatens the economy and would free up banks to lend more. Opponents say it rewards bad decisions by Wall Street, puts taxpayers at risk and fails to address the real economic problems facing Americans. "If we do not act responsibly today, we risk a crisis in which senior citizens across America will lose their retirement savings, small businesses won't make payroll ... and families won't be able to obtain mortgages for their homes or cars," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., moments before the vote... Now the fate of the bailout rests with the House." Taken from, "Senate passes bailout" http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes Also: "In a historic vote, the Senate approved a massive $700 billion rescue plan for the nation's finance system Wednesday night, but only after tacking on another $110 billion in tax breaks to lure votes from both parties." Taken from, "Senate passes massive $810 billion bailout" http://www.miamiherald.com/news/poli...ry/709715.html Last edited by Oiran; 10-02-2008 at 05:27 AM.

10-02-2008, 06:54 AM	#3
lehomonuka Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Diego Ca Posts: 73	Re: Senate passes bailout WASHINGTON -- In a historic vote, the Senate approved a massive $700 billion rescue plan for the nation's finance system Wednesday night, but only after tacking on another $110 billion in tax breaks to lure votes from both parties. "WTF" If this isn't the equivilent "Let Them Eat Cake!" Today, I know how our founding fathers felt while marching up the gang planks in Boston Last edited by lehomonuka; 10-02-2008 at 07:16 AM.

10-02-2008, 07:13 AM	#4
besttools Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 11	Re: Senate passes bailout I know it sounds sad, especially for the US taxpayers, but that was a fact that the gov will do that and this gets approved. I remember seeing somewhere on this forum a message from George Green where he said he'd been informed that they will not explode the bubble this year. They decided to grow it even more, until the next year. That is why when the bailout was stopped at first attempt I was expecting a "candy", and another attempt. Even if this version of bailout plan will not pass the House of Rep-s (if I understand the US legal procedure correctly), they will give another "candy" - but they are absolutely sure to get this thing through. I am really not a financial expert, but think that more and more people will start to use this kind of debt collecting tips - I do not say this is a solution, but this is already a trend.

10-02-2008, 07:39 AM	#5
MMe M Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 211	Re: Senate passes bailout "WTF" If this isn't the equivilent "Let Them Eat Cake!" Today, I know how our founding fathers felt while marching up the gang planks in Boston [/QUOTE] Too right, and then the French had themselves a nice little revolution. Interestingly enough it was similar circumstances that preceeded the revolution. What was that oath they all took again? Something like *I will defend the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.*

10-02-2008, 07:49 AM	#6
Oiran Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: California Posts: 57	Re: Senate passes bailout Wtf is right: "The more Congress examines the Bush administration's bailout plan, the hazier its outcome gets. At a Senate Banking Committee hearing Tuesday, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle complained of being rushed to pass legislation or else risk financial meltdown... In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy... "It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number." Taken from, "Bad News For The Bailout" http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/09/2...23bailout.html

10-02-2008, 07:58 AM	#7
Sol Invictus Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 599	Re: Senate passes bailout Being a UK citizen I can see this from a 'wide angle' and its not looking at all pretty. To be honest, the Boston tea party started over less than this, and I really fear that the greedy elite have raped the USA dry, and now are finalising a plan to forever enslave its people into such deep debt servitude that it will take a revolution to over come it. Just knowing who holds the debt reins scares me, and i don't live in the USA!

10-02-2008, 08:14 AM	#8
lucrum Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 209	Re: Senate passes bailout Reading what major newspapers in my country writes about this, it angers me. To me it looks like they do not research this at all. They tell it as a universal truth that accepting this rescue/bailout-plan is the right thing to do. It's great scale fear mongering going on, with all the speak of catastrophy and whatnot if the bill ain't passed. I feel anger filling me when seeing news about Bush saluting the senate, for doing what he feels right/what he wants. To me, a leader of a nation should not do this. It just supports the suspicion that this is more than a rescue, if no rescue at all. As long as the world is so split in opinions about this plan, it means it can't be all good. Experts or not, the common man isn't always senseless. I'm no american but I can still feel for the american people, and my gut tells me this is no good for you guys. My thoughts go to you all, let's hope this ain't going through.

10-02-2008, 09:45 AM	#9
GenerationIke Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Geneva, NY Posts: 156	Re: Senate passes bailout Vive le Revolucion! We must or we will be enslaved. This is the vision George Washington was given at Valley Forge. Not just World War III, but the enslavement of his country by powers that refused to be uprooted. We must, as Ben Fulford decried, pluck out the eye, cut of the head, off this hideous monster before it's too late.

10-02-2008, 10:48 AM	#10
Bigleap Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cape Town Posts: 34	Re: Senate passes bailout This video should be compulsory viewing for every adult. http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/135.html

10-02-2008, 11:24 AM	#11
lehomonuka Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: San Diego Ca Posts: 73	Re: Senate passes bailout GenerationIke I absolutely agree w/fulford, but my only concern is HOW Last edited by lehomonuka; 10-02-2008 at 09:37 PM.

10-02-2008, 12:23 PM	#13
Steve_A Project Avalon Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Northeastern Brazil Posts: 1,259	Re: Senate passes bailout Hi Everone, Following is a list of Senators voting Yea: Akaka (D-HI) Alexander (R-TN) Baucus (D-MT) Bayh (D-IN) Bennett (R-UT) Biden (D-DE) Bingaman (D-NM) Bond (R-MO) Boxer (D-CA) Brown (D-OH) Burr (R-NC) Byrd (D-WV) Cardin (D-MD) Carper (D-DE) Casey (D-PA) Chambliss (R-GA) Clinton (D-NY) Coburn (R-OK) Coleman (R-MN) Collins (R-ME) Conrad (D-ND) Corker (R-TN) Cornyn (R-TX) Craig (R-ID) Dodd (D-CT) Domenici (R-NM) Durbin (D-IL) Ensign (R-NV) Feinstein (D-CA) Graham (R-SC) Grassley (R-IA) Gregg (R-NH) Hagel (R-NE) Harkin (D-IA) Hatch (R-UT) Hutchison (R-TX) Inouye (D-HI) Isakson (R-GA) Kerry (D-MA) Klobuchar (D-MN) Kohl (D-WI) Kyl (R-AZ) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Lieberman (ID-CT) Lincoln (D-AR) Lugar (R-IN) Martinez (R-FL) McCain (R-AZ) McCaskill (D-MO) McConnell (R-KY) Menendez (D-NJ) Mikulski (D-MD) Murkowski (R-AK) Murray (D-WA) Nelson (D-NE) Obama (D-IL) Pryor (D-AR) Reed (D-RI) Reid (D-NV) Rockefeller (D-WV) Salazar (D-CO) Schumer (D-NY) Smith (R-OR) Snowe (R-ME) Specter (R-PA) Stevens (R-AK) Sununu (R-NH) Thune (R-SD) Voinovich (R-OH) Warner (R-VA) Webb (D-VA) Whitehouse (D-RI) Best regards, Steve

10-03-2008, 08:49 AM	#14
MMe M Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 211	Re: Senate passes bailout Yeah there the creep is and my state is the worst in the union for unemployment. Its a ghost town here, every other house is abandoned and that sob is just shoveling the dirt on the grave faster. I sent him a letter. Thats it. Im gonna run. How much worse could I do?

10-03-2008, 01:13 PM	#15
Chinderland Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 43	Re: Senate passes bailout US Senate is purely a rich man's club. They are not representative of American people in any sense.