Warning: VERY CONTROVERSIAL - holocaust

[orthodoxymoron]

Perhaps one of the greatest lessons we can learn from participation in Avalon...is to keep asking the right questions...in the right way. We probably need to question everything...but in a measured and tactful manner.

The bad guys and gals (human and otherwise...native and ET) probably play all sides...so just about everyone and everything may be a mixture of good and evil.

Namaste

[THE eXchanger]

i think,the big question is how many holocausts have their been

and, how much bigger were they, than, we think ???

[sjkted]

eXchanger: Thank you for bringing up this topic.

I've been looking into this topic on my own recently as it appears that too many of these details aren't adding up. For example, Hitler being 1/4 or 1/10 or whatever percentage Jewish, being financed by the Rothschilds, the creation of Israel immediately after the war. Ironically, for a people who experienced ethnic cleansing, one would think the state of Israel would be a little more respectful towards creating settlements.

I agree that as far as the mainstream is concerned that this is a controversial topic, but so long as everyone here is coming from a place of light and integrity and honest inquiry as to what happened, there is no reason the details and facts need to be hidden.

This video just came out about a week ago. See http://www.prisonplanet.com/israel-w...er-laptop.html. I struggle to make sense of it.

For those who have not researched the matter, the problem is not the Jews, but the Zionists. All Zionists are Jewish, but not all Jews are Zionists. Zionism is a political movement. Interestingly enough, there is a group of Jews (non-Zionists) in Israel called refusniks who refuse to participate in the expanding of settlements and the destruction of Palestenian land. I guess they would be similar to the 9/11 truthers or the 3% movement in the US.

What I don't get is that a lot of the Holocaust Debunk/Revisionist movies and literature seems to downplay the number of Holocaust victims and some of the testimony given during the Nuremburg trials. I think it's safe to say the trials were rigged, but what is the big picture here?

So what if there were 1, 3, or 6 million people killed in the camps? What does it matter whether they were Jews, gays, or political dissenters? Does it matter whether they were killed from hard labor coupled with malnutrition or gassed? My point is that no matter how you crunch the numbers, it was still a huge travesty with substantial damaged caused even to the survivors.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of these details. It seems to me that there was a genocide situation, although it may have been grossly(?) overstated by the Zionists during the Nuremburg trials and for propaganda reasons in order to entice the US into joining the war and also for the creation of Israel.

Is that it or is there anything else I'm missing?

-- sjkted

[sjkted]

Another interesting point about this is that in many European countries it is illegal to say anything contrary to the public story on the Holocaust. Can you imagine being jailed for just expressing that maybe some of the details were fudged or not correctly stated or for being a whistleblower/witness.

See some of the laws regarding Holocaust denial on Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial_laws.

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by mkspllmn

The biggest holocaust in history was the American Indian I think.

i think the biggest holocaust is still going on,

and, it is against, almost all of us

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Humble Janitor

I still don't understand why people wish to downplay the jewish holocaust.

I'd expect that behavior out of the Iranian President or a neo-nazi but not people on Avalon.

Why is it that it is a "Jewish" holocaust? If I may ask, how do you define a Jew? Are you referring to a specific racial group or a group of people who share a set of beliefs or something else?

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by eXchanger

i think the biggest holocaust is still going on,

and, it is against, almost all of us

I agree. It's amazing that TPTB are still able to profit from the meme of concentration camps as publicized by Alex Jones and some of the Youtube videos. Regardless of whether or not they are true, they certainly do a good job of portraying ordinary people as future helpless victims.

[THE eXchanger]

it's pretty complicated

maybe next year; everyone should do their census forms

and, say they are zionist jews


or, write down - i am NOT from around here !!!

or, it is a secret

[Humble Janitor]

Originally Posted by sjkted

Why is it that it is a "Jewish" holocaust? If I may ask, how do you define a Jew? Are you referring to a specific racial group or a group of people who share a set of beliefs or something else?

The majority of people killed were jews (or according to some people, they were either zionists or non-zionists).

I don't wish to debate the legitimacy of something that angers me to even think about and for that, I must bow out.

[THE eXchanger]

i do NOT ever remember, even studying it, in canada ???

i'll have to ask some of my friends
~ i kind of dreamed my way through high school

but, i do NOT even recall, anything really being taught about it,
in the early 70's

[wynderer]

Hi All -- i haven't seen anything yet on this thread or anywhere else that convinces me the Holocaust was a 'hoax' -- there are many US soldiers who helped to liberate the camps who can tell you they were real -- & i have known Jews who lost nearly all their families in the camps

there may be some political angle to the denial movement -- i sometimes wonder if part of the denial movement is because most humans do their best to avoid the truth of the fact that evil things are being done, right here & now, under their noses & sometimes in plain sight

also -- a good way to kind of pre-deny the FEMA camps

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[mntruthseeker]

eXchanger............. IT WAS NOT 6 MILLION JEWS...............they were Germans, The expulsions (today called "ethnic cleansing"). GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

I think that you are 100 per cent correct on what you are saying and even though this is such a heated issue in this thread it irritates me so much to see people shut their eyes to the truth and continue to believe all the BS that our media/news cast has told us

Here is an article I came across today and at the bottom there are pictures and a list of other books written about this.

In my heart I try to imagine how people strongly denied these stories back during this time frame and even now today when they only have to open their eyes and see that it has never really stopped.

What happened in other Countries and even now in Iraq, Afghanistan, India, China etc........................what are they thinking ?


It truly does hurt to know the truth.........but its time that some people put aside their sun glasses and see the FACTS because this is exactly what they are trying to do in the USA today.

http://www.rense.com/general88/after.htm

[371]

Whether or not the holocaust as we think of it today happened.

There were massacres, all over occupied areas. Entire villages exectued.

6 million jews seems more shocking, then a whole local populace. Higher number, but given regional concentration not the same. But still very bad.

Victim mentality.... i see all over now. Minorities, religious.... whatever.

Further division of the divided is how i see it.

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by 371

Whether or not the holocaust as we think of it today happened.

There were massacres, all over occupied areas. Entire villages exectued.

6 million jews seems more shocking, then a whole local populace. Higher number, but given regional concentration not the same. But still very bad.

Victim mentality.... i see all over now. Minorities, religious.... whatever.

Further division of the divided is how i see it.

Yes, it is very sad and did you know that after the war they had more Jewish people recorded than listed prior to the war ? I have nothing against the Jewish people but its the ones that are behind this as was pointed out before that are making money off this war. There is a huge difference in their story and the truth................These people were slaughtered and not the way its written

The truth needs to come out so people will see that it was the Israel,USA, Britain and Russia especially the NAZI'S that had a hand in this as they are today. Especially the Jesuits & Vatican.............evil evil

We still have so many people that shut their eyes to the truth.

I feel its important because although I hate to say this, I know that we still have many people that just dont give a **** because it happened there and not here. Well its happening all over and they need to know its what they want to do here

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by the exchanger

i think the biggest holocaust is still going on,

and, it is against, almost all of us

exactly

[sjkted]

Here's an interesting side note I found while I was watching this. The internment camps were not just limited to Europe during World War II. In the United States, we actually rounded up about 120,000 Japanese naturalized CITIZENS and US-born citizens, deprived them of their property and put them in camps. Of course, this completely violates the constitution and bill of rights.

The only thing different from Europe is that I haven't heard claims of anyone being killed. It was very recent that the government officially apologized and offered reparations of $20,000 or so per internee. Of course, many of them have since died and thus will never be compensated.

For more details, see the Wikipedia article.

--sjkted

[sjkted]

I also remember from Victor Frankl's book that a large number of camps were plagued by virus outbreaks that were caused by poor hygiene and the large number of people living in close quarters. I wonder what percentage of these people died from these types of outbreaks.

--sjkted

[wynderer]

whatever the statistics were, a lot of people -- not just the Jews, but way more of them than anyone else -- died in terrible pain & suffering in those camps -- & those who did this are alive & well in my own country especially

& knowing/seeing how good the nwo is at using not just symbols, but words/language itself to manipulate minds -- i just wonder about the phrase 'holocaust denial' getting so much play recently -- w/the Big Daddy of all Holocausts in the works right now

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[mntruthseeker]

alot of them starved to death (IMO why so many were so very thin) Veneral Deseases from being raped from all the soldiers after the war

It was said that is when so many died. The story I put out there says more so much and yet he writes he elliminated the worse !

I guess what bothers me the most is when and how they died. The horrific crimes against humanity.

Genocide to make their so called perfect race

[wynderer]

i'm 62 yrs old & was in Junior High when A Eichmann was caught & brought to trial -- there were many Jewish kids in my classes -- there were also a number of first-person accounts written in the '50s by survivors of various camps in our school library which i read -- one survivor wrote that it was not an absence of the Light in the camps, it was the presence of evil

to me it does not matter the exact number of the millions who died in the camps or on the forced marches, or how they died, other than that some deaths were more horrible than others --especially how the babies died -- even one human being forced to die that way is wrong -- &, this being Christmas Day, may i remind those souls still hanging around who were involved in perpetrating those cruelties, that Jesus had some rough things to say re the future of those who hurt the children, the little ones

& may i apologize to all those of the Jewish faith for what has been done to your people over the centuries in the Name of Jesus

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[mntruthseeker]

I totally agree with you that no human being should be made to suffer this way.

Its never been over. I know many families also that have been directly effected by genocide that is happening today.

People talk about the Holocaust as if it is a thing of the past and it was only Jews. That gets under my skin because it is not the truth. It is still happening and no matter who they are it isn't right. DIVISION they created it and they are now using it to fix our world. Who wants it ?

To some it may seem "not important" that the truth be told but to me it is very very important. To accept it as it was written is accepting anything they do and tell us. The it continues

The saying goes "the truth will set you free" We all know they write HIS-story.........same as they re-wrote the Bible. BS Its all their teachings and I refuse to go around believing any more of their lies.

So we go about our lives believing that those damn germans killed those poor jews ? Naw, dont think so. Put blame where blame lies..........the Zionist, Russians, Americans, British and the Zeta-Reptilians killed the human beings and WWII was not the first time,that has been proven

I feel that to say - it doesnt matter, is wrong as wrong can be. It does matter because its happening still. This holocaust is nothing more than their decision of who is to live or not. Just like their new wonderful health care bill. It was just the kick off of this NWO they are.

[371]

I don't understand why people seem to treat this type stuff like it is something new.

This has been going on forever.

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by 371

I don't understand why people seem to treat this type stuff like it is something new.

This has been going on forever.

Your right, but its the "cover up" of what really happened.

Have you always known the truth ? If so, does it not bother you to continue to push the wrong ideas off on the world ?

out of sight, out of mind is the way the world is and its time for them to realize that we are living a blatan lie here.

People can believe what they want but IMO, it helps TPTB continue on their way slaughtering anyone that they deemed unfit to live.

[371]

Originally Posted by mntruthseeker

Have you always known the truth ? If so, does it not bother you to continue to push the wrong ideas off on the world ?

out of sight, out of mind is the way the world is and its time for them to realize that we are living a blatan lie here.

Nazi atrocities? YES always have known, it is my heritige.

Living a blatant lie? No, didn't always know. And certainly not just how much of it is a lie.

Out of sight, out of mind indeed. Most people simply don't care, until it effects them personally.

Then they are upset, and cry about it. That is like a rocking chair- gives them something to do but doesn't get them anywhere.

[THE eXchanger]

Originally Posted by 371

I don't understand why people seem to treat this type stuff like it is something new.

This has been going on forever.

true - however, iT iS TYME to alter/change/and, morph and shift it,
into something of a higher order - so, the collective consciousness
on earth - is forever changed

if you read, here :

you;ll quickly discover who jehovah - really was

it might surprise you

THE TRUTH about Earth Changes & ETs -- They are us, we are them

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=17838

post 88 - starts the main info

WHY CAN'T PEOPLE find it ???