Cliff High view on Bill Ryans accusations

[Moxie]

Bill stepped on his d_ck.
Ouch is what I felt for him.
Dontcha hate it when that happens?

It's okay... but I do think it is warranted that he apologize more succinctly. That's what we honest folk do, we own up to our mistakes. It doesn't matter if he holds those thoughts to be true to himself... in this public forum and the premise of his b'ness, that of Camelot & Avalon, being an avenue for whistleblowers to air their words, it's not a place for his personal opinions, as he does have influence on other people. I think it was shameful for him to air the link to the manhunt site (which is now on my computer thank you very much)...
we are quite capable of discerning ... it was a case of him trying to Show us what we might not suspect... geesh...

Cliff High reports his findings from the software that he developed... which, the airing of, affects outcomes. He's been quite clear to define the parameters of his work. He has, in my view, a very honorable integrity and responded in a very respectable manner, even tho I'm certain he has much sharper vocabulary.

I'm also shocked at some of the "old timers" here lately, wtf anyway?...!!! Cannot we realize what is clearly happening... triggers... knee jerks... examine yourself...
I'm listening to me as well!

Cheers!

[YinYangMind]

This thread has been enlightening (and a bit entertaining as well!) regarding the PC regulars, community and most interestingly, Bill Ryan!

I've watched just about every interview PC has produced over the last 3 years. Some are facinating (the recent LaViolette as an example, although as in this particular interview, Kerry seems to struggle keeping up while Bill stays on track...a common theme in my views!) while others are way on the 'woo-woo' side as Clif calls it. Most posts here seem to take the most logical tack in that your gut should be your guide.

When I saw that PC interviewed Clif via phone from last year, my initial thought was that it would be great interview and add significant content to the PC library. But, alas, I was very disappointed in the questioning and apparent challenge in comprehension both Bill and particularly Kerry had with Clif's approach, research, method and logical (although very deep logic!) data he brings to the discussion. It seems the original description I found a month or so ago has been altered in that it had some 'we don't buy or understand clif's stuff' disclaimer where now it doesn't. Curious indeed!

Bill's initial post (due to some nefarious 3rd party?) and response to Clif's open letter is not only childish, but irresponsible to the PC/PA stated mission and purpose! As another post stated, 'it demonsrtates some type of ignorance/arrogance that Bill must have for the members and followers of PC/PA!' (and Bill, that hat is cool and all but its gettin old!)

It's also great to see that the 'camel-ites' have clearly spoken to what seems to be a majority feeling/sense/view that Bill has stepped in/on it and needs to get 'some balance' himself! It's obvious that there's a great deal of respect that Bill and Kerry have developed/earned over the years and it would be a shame to see it fall apart by the old adage 'one oh **** can wipe out a thousand at-a-boys!'

Burish, Deagle, Peterson, Henry and several others are causing free thinking folks to stop and spend a little extra time in the navel lint...unfortunately, we're all finding more lint than anything else! It sure doesn't help when these folks keep throwing more lint in either!

Bill, you need to come clean and get this resolved! You and/or your nefarious obfuscated 3rd party started throwing turds in the bowl and it's up to you to find the clean end and pull them out!

'Trust but Verify!'

We've seen your 'Trust', now how about some 'Verification' for a change?

YinYangMind

[dolphin]

how many more toes is bill and kerry going to step on and "**** off" their former "whistleblowers"... gees the list is growing... michael st. claire, burish, greer, and now cliff, who's next?

it's good to see people here "wake up" as franciejones stated. people aren't as gullible anymore.

[YinYangMind]

Oh yeah! Forgot to mention the very poor performance by Kerry especially with Greer! In fact, the kind of flat out skepticism they both displayed in that interview was not only a bit over the top, but something akin to that approach should have been taken with Burish, Deagle, et all!

What's this saying about PC's journalistic integrity? Are they starting to believe their own BS?

Back to the navel lint...

[gibonos]

Originally Posted by cantaloupe

Evidence first. Gut second. Deagle offers no evidence (why are you throwing all soft balls, Bill?) And I always feel horrible and scared after listening to him.
Moses indeed. Everyone who says anything publicly upon which they would have others base their actions in these interesting times should be held to scrutiny,
and be able to withstand it. Duh. I'm with Cliff on this. Perhaps less volume and more hard hitting research would benefit Camelot. I've listened to a lot of cr@p there.
Ooh, I'm a senior member.

Why shouldn't we listen to gut first?
If history proves it to be right on and on again, I have no reason not to go with it first. It doesn't mean that I don't change my opinion when new facts are being presented.
Evidence can always change by gut stays with you, so you have to trust it and it will develop such a big bull sh.t detector that will amaze you :-)

gibonos

[Steve_A]

Hi Phtha,

The Camelot Website was set upto INTERVIEW people and let them get their story out.

More recently the site carried a disclaimer saying that the site owners do not necessarily agree with everything being said.

This last six months or so, both site owners have been stepping beyond the bounds of the object of the site, with criticisms of several 'professionals' of the area.

My area of profession is music. I would never say to another professional musician that I think they're ****. I would just keep quiet and say nothing. It's the politically correct thing to do within the professional area (even because you will get more enemies than friends if you're caught slagging people off publicly).

I think the Camelot name this year has had it rough and it may be a good idea to assess damage control to make 2010 better for the 'brand'.

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by Phtha

My opinions on this.. if anyone cares.

Calling people (in this case Cliff) "dumb" and "idiot" as Bill has done in both his original post and his response is an action fueled by ego for the ego. Insults do not exist otherwise.

It worked as cliff had to defend himself, and who can blame him?

Both Cliff and Bill are voices I respect and I find it unfortunate that people who are on the same side (at least on the surface) are turning against one another.

This is of course... the old divide and conquer. So my question is, who is the third party who has started this ancient wheel to turn? There is one involved, have no doubt. Is it Deagle himself? I dare not guess....

I also don't agree with Bills stance on defending his whistleblowers. I think the whistle blowers words should speak for themselves, and they (thanks to the internet) have many methods to defend themselves should the need arise.

Love you guys both! But I really think there is a 3rd here causing this friction... is it ever any other way?

[Carol]

Originally Posted by Steve_A

Hi Phtha,

The Camelot Website was set upto INTERVIEW people and let them get their story out.

More recently the site carried a disclaimer saying that the site owners do not necessarily agree with everything being said.

This last six months or so, both site owners have been stepping beyond the bounds of the object of the site, with criticisms of several 'professionals' of the area.

My area of profession is music. I would never say to another professional musician that I think they're ****. I would just keep quiet and say nothing. It's the politically correct thing to do within the professional area (even because you will get more enemies than friends if you're caught slagging people off publicly).

I think the Camelot name this year has had it rough and it may be a good idea to assess damage control to make 2010 better for the 'brand'.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve, I agree. Trashing other professionals is crass and generally stems from those who are caught up in ego. Being humble is a goal worthy to aspire to.

[petesm22]

[truth and integrity]

[How many more toes is bill and kerry going to step on and "**** off" their former "whistleblowers"... gees the list is growing... michael st. claire, burish, greer, and now cliff, who's next?

it's good to see people here "wake up" as franciejones stated. people aren't as gullible anymore.]

You can add Henry Deacon as Bill stated that they lost contact with this "troubled soul". There is a lot of judgement and name calling. As you said,people are waking up. I decided to join this forum to talk to people with open and critical mind. Maybe we are not lost.

[cantaloupe]

Originally Posted by gibonos

Why shouldn't we listen to gut first?
If history proves it to be right on and on again, I have no reason not to go with it first. It doesn't mean that I don't change my opinion when new facts are being presented.
Evidence can always change by gut stays with you, so you have to trust it and it will develop such a big bull sh.t detector that will amaze you :-)

gibonos

Maybe I would go so far as to put them on equal footing, but reservations based on gut reactions , in my view, can be an indication that more needs to be learned. Also, because of baggage from earlier experience, my initial reaction can often be what I know is not best for me or represents something that I need to move beyond. You're right though in that one isn't really much good without the other. My detector has gotten more accurate over time.
Peace

[Panta rhei]

Originally Posted by gibonos

Why shouldn't we listen to gut first?
If history proves it to be right on and on again, I have no reason not to go with it first. It doesn't mean that I don't change my opinion when new facts are being presented.
Evidence can always change by gut stays with you, so you have to trust it and it will develop such a big bull sh.t detector that will amaze you :-)

I agree, and I'm amazed at the fact that the "bull sh.t detectors" of so many Avalon members are saying the same about Bill Deagle and D.Burish that mine does. It's clearly disinfo to me and especially D.Burish... he's a good actor though, and very entertaining.

[chitty]

Originally Posted by Excalibur

i think PC should present the evidence and let people draw their own conclusions. I thought that was the intent of PC? Maybe I'm missing something. There is no need to 'endorse' anyone in particular. That is a road that leads to trouble and blowback. If tany whistleblower speaks truth, it will stand on its own. If disinfo, people will eventually see through it or something will leak out. Personally, I don't trust Dr. Deagle, or 'Dr. Pete Peterson' for that matter...I choose not to listen to them. Clif High on the other hand, is someone I do trust.

Ditto

[mkspllmn]

If Bill Ryan and Cliff High are fighting publicly on this forum is it any wonder that the members fight amongst themselves?

[Seburo]

Dr. Bill Deagle puts my ******** meter in the red zone, yes some of his stories may corroborate with others, and yes he may hold the title of "Dr.", but the many of his claims are so far out very few can be scientifically validated. The oddest thing about Dr. Deagle is that he's coincidentally had a part in nearly all major conspiracies for the last 30+ years; this understanding alone sets off a ginormous red flag. Now I'm not saying everything word out of Deagles mouth is a lie, but Clif's suspicion on Deagle's credibility is well warranted.

A few links I found through Google regarding Bill Deagle's lack of credibility:
http://www.christianissues.com/updates.html - Post Dated 10/9/09
http://www.ripoffreport.com/suppleme...agle-2e2e8.htm
http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c.../02/dr_27.html
http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/billdeagle.html

This public record shows a clear revocation of Deagle's medical license "as recommended by Administrative Law Judge" from the state of Colorado:
https://www.doradls.state.co.us/alis...kwNTAz&t_o_p=0


A thought provoking thread making swiss cheese out of Mr. Deagles "credentials":
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread434552/pg1

EDIT:
On the other hand Deagle does have a few filed patents, one specifically under Dynatens Research Corporation which gives some credibility to his claims.
http://www.google.com/patents?q=Will...Search+Patents
http://www.patentstorm.us/search.htm....x=0&s.y=0&s=s - I double checked =)

Though I can't find Mr. Deagle as a registered physician in all of Canada which strikes me as odd (I went through all the records of the College of Physicians and Surgeons of each province.)


...waits for the Medical Board of California physician license lookup to stop doing maintenance... Update: No Record Found.
http://www.medbd.ca.gov/lookup.html

Edit2: Nutrimedical is registered to a house.... 1995 Quail View Drive, Vista, CA‎
http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8...h&z=19&iwloc=A


Please note that all information gathered has been through the use of the Google search engine and is in no way, shape, or form divulging any information on Dr. William Deagle that isn't already in public access.
----
Regards,
SeburoX43 - http://www.youtube.com/user/SeburoX43

[YinYangMind]

Seburo,

Excellent post! I hope Bill & Kerry check out the links you provided. If they had done some of the research you did, perhaps they'd have a different opinion!

I, like others here, didn't have a good feeling about Deagle while listening to or after the interview. While I greatly appreciate Bill & Kerry's work and effort, they do have a certain responsibility to perform better due diligence with their approach and presentation of those they interview. It's interesting to see how some guests are pilloried while others are given a free pass without proper skepticism.

It's obvious that Bill needs to 'man up' and take responsibility for the slanderous **** he's thrown at Clif...and he keeps saying he 'found the email from Clif' that supposedly backs up his initial claim but never produces the damn thing!

Makes you wonder what's going on...

Peace,

YinYangMind

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by Jack

]
Bill Deagle offers little hope to the people who are following his information. If we were to listen to what he has to say on a daily basis and take it all on board as truth then its safe to say that the mental hospitals and mortuaries would be filling up quite rapidly.

This can also be said for Alex Jones, who I have given up listening to quite a long time ago. There are certain members of society who are being paid a LOT of money to be very persuasive and believable. And the role they play is to instigate as much fear and anger as possible into their targeted audience. Alex Jones is clearly doing this to incite some kind of a revolution which in turn would play right into the nets of the local swat force waiting eagerly at their bases for any kind of a "terrorist" uprising.

Hopefully, I don't take this too far OT. I listened to Alex Jones quite a bit as I was acclimating all of this new information about 9/11, NWO, etc. and it's very hard to argue with much of the facts he presents. I also came up with this conclusion that he would be leading some group as a provocateur towards the second Civil War.

I don't listen to him regularly, but I have caught a few of his interviews and seen his latest movies. In particular, I listened to his most recent interviews with David Icke and am comparing them to his earliest interviews with Icke.

Has anyone else noticed he has calmed down quite a bit and seems to be awakening himself to the spiritual side of things?

--sjkted

[sjkted]

Originally Posted by YinYangMind

Excellent post! I hope Bill & Kerry check out the links you provided. If they had done some of the research you did, perhaps they'd have a different opinion!

I, like others here, didn't have a good feeling about Deagle while listening to or after the interview. While I greatly appreciate Bill & Kerry's work and effort, they do have a certain responsibility to perform better due diligence with their approach and presentation of those they interview. It's interesting to see how some guests are pilloried while others are given a free pass without proper skepticism.

This is largely the conundrum I have with Avalon and Camelot. Overall, I like Bill and Kerry. For a long while I questioned with they were CIA operatives. Today, I don't think they are but I remain a little skeptical about some of their influences and sources of funding. I enjoyed the Burisch interviews, although much in the same way I might enjoy a Star Trek movie. In other words, the facts involved have absolutely no bearing on my reality except for entertainment.

My problem was that when the forum turned paid, I was unwilling to support these types of interviews. My other issue was that as a paying member, I would no longer be an Avalon guest or viewer, but a customer, and as a customer, I didn't want to be paying for disinfo. I felt somewhat disillusioned by the fact that Bill and Kerry didn't seem very interested in listening to or being attentive to their customers. I applaud Bill for his recent thread to be attentive to what everyone is saying and asking. I think it is most appropriate that PA/PC are supported by their members by donations and also by selling some type of merchandise(?) or products/exclusive services, but in order for skeptics such as myself that Bill and Kerry (or even someone in a new position like operations manager) be more responsive to the members and their concerns about particular whistleblowers.

--sjkted

[truth and integrity]

Has anyone else noticed he has calmed down quite a bit and seems to be awakening himself to the spiritual side of things?

Yes. I have noticed this. I could see how David Icke inspired him. Alex has shown his strenghts when he openly appologized to David Icke for calling him opportunistic or misinfo. David has integrity and inner strenghts, and it was not an issue for him. I have noticed that Alex has changed since he has built relationships with David. There are people who bring the worst in us and those who bring the best. David brings the best.

Best regards,

[THE eXchanger]

WE all need to get on one side of these boulders - and, PUSH !!!

[TOKYO ROSE]

From all the interviews on our Camelot website, I always wondered just about Dr Deagle. Its impossible to 'pin him down' as he is changing the subjects in almost every sentence.

Cliff is correct, I do not recall that Bill Ryan ever verified any of the vast spectacular allegations that Deagle vomit in every interview.

I never took Deagle seriously. Out of respect to Bill Ryan, I kept my mouth shut, as I do not have time to investigate Deagle.

However, Deagle has a lot of interesting information and leads we could investigate.(no one has done it yet)

Cliff High is VERY eloquent and far more convincing than any person I ever met/listen to. The most important thing about Cliff is his intuition which always seem to be correct. AMAZING!

Since Jeff Rense was mentioned, I will add this:
Jeff Rense is the world's most honest, informed and competent radio personality in the world.
IMHO. No one, i repeat NO ONE is even getting close to his level. Jeff Rense has proven himself to be the VERY best source of information over the internet for the last 15 years. NO ONE WORLDWIDE HAS THE SPECTACULAR SOURCES THAT JEFF HAS.
So it may be a good idea if Bill Ryan will remove this post from our website:
'An Open Letter to Jeff Rense'
http://projectcamelot.org/open_lette...eff_rense.html

Any informed person worldwide will take Jeff Rense's position over any other opinion. While I love Bill and Kerry, I would advise them to stay away from Jeff Rense and Cliff High. Jeff and Cliff are in a class by themselves above all of us, above the rest of the Internet.

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

jeff rense is pretty good, so is alex jones but i dont go mad on them. they are subject to disinfo like everyone else.. jeff rense has more wacky guests on than jones( tim riffat, fullford ect) but between them they cover it pretty well. most cons[piracy stuff is bs antway. the more you stay on track the further away from the conspiracy pooh you get.

[gscraig]

Hmmm...More auditioning for the Jerry Springer show I see.

As I've always intimated, pay attention to what these internet personalities are doing outside of their claims. Are they selling something? For whom? From whom? What is it? Do they have advertisements blaring on their website? Are they charging you subscriptions to allow you the priviledge to express against your governments agenda of suppression? There are many internet entreprenuers in the truth business whom should all be vetted, so that we as a collective can "remove the clowns and close the circus, wipe with Windex to see the purpose".

This is a little early, but on time for me. Roughly three weeks ago, I personally felt that within the next 6 months to the end of 2010, many of the false prophets will be exposed and will no longer be heard of again. I cannot explain why, but it's been with me. They know who they are and I hope that they are reading this, so that their clocks are set and agendas purified...tick-tock, tick-tock...
It doesn't matter how much you resonate with any of them, you still have to do your homework. So be careful choosing sides, for you may still find yourself standing on a plank.

So let us observe the display of Sticks and Stones....

[YinYangMind]

I agree with your 'premonition?' regarding the exposure of those who claim to be 'truth revealers' as this year transitions to the next. What's very interesting from my perspective is that the most recent venues of information (Mel Fabregas - The Veritas Show, Hnrk of Red Ice Creations in particular) as well as what I consider somewhat of a cleansing and resergence of the old CoastToCoastAM now with George Noory have been presenting some of the most thought provoking and intellgent interviews over the last 6 + months!

One of the most recent 'whistleblowers', Andrew Basagio, has been on both Veritas and CoastToCoast and while his story is quite fascinating, he like Clif, has one of the most believable presentations out there. Clif's Web Bot project even surfaced Andrew's name before he came out to which Andrew acknowledged on both shows.

The recent 'Shape of Things to Come' report from Clif (December 6th) as well as the previous has been more interesting and reliable than the last 6 months worth of PC, with the exception of the Paul LaViolette where Kerry was just plain lost most of the interview. Clif has high regard for Paul's work including the work Patrick Geryl. Nassim Harriman and Drunvalo Melchezidec are two others that should be on anyones list.

There's more substance in the Webbots as related to current and future events than what I've seen out of PC this year. Why Bill has chosen the tack with Clif is puzzling. Basagio, Harrimen, Geryl, Melchezidec, High and several others should be key individuals for PC focus on to perhaps add some real substance to the PC body of work. Those that Bill & Kerry have focused on this last year have seemed to fizzle out at a minimum, cause some serious doubt and questions about the PC intent and agenda at best.

My $.25 worth of Karmic deposit.

BPH
YinYangMind

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

the truth will out.. let it run its course..

[truth and integrity]

The recent 'Shape of Things to Come' report from Clif (December 6th) as well as the previous has been more interesting and reliable than the last 6 months worth of PC, with the exception of the Paul LaViolette where Kerry was just plain lost most of the interview. Clif has high regard for Paul's work including the work Patrick Geryl. Nassim Harriman and Drunvalo Melchezidec are two others that should be on anyones list.

I agree.I like Cliff and I have enjoyed listening to his interviews. He is an intelligent man and I like how his mind works.What is missing on PC is the quality of intelectual stimulation. Therefore, I prefer to watch Nassim Harriman or Drunvalo Melchizedek to name a few. I do not watch PC any more. I found that I grow faster when I do my own research. I do not like arguing either. Too much negative energy and too much distractions from what really matter.

Best regards,