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Old 09-22-2008, 10:43 AM   #151
anonypony
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Thank you King Lear for being the humour king and keeping us smiling...
P.S. who is 'the third man' from the left?

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Stand up and be counted...
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:14 AM   #152
anonypony
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

"he's had his chance in courts and deserves what he gets"

That is just it. HE DIDN'T! Throughout all the legal comings and goings till this moment, all that was discussed in the courts is the law itself.

Gary was accused, his crimes alleged, but NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER WAS SUBMITTED and he had not once the chance to refute it!

The questions the court system was deliberating was: should Gary be extradited under the new extradition treaty, which by the way, was only ratified by both sides in 2007. So while most of these legal steps dealing with this point were going on, the treaty was only sighed by the UK.


Like a lamb to the slaughter....
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:09 PM   #153
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/22/hacking.usa

A vindictive sort of justice

The US authorities are so desperate to extradite my son that they have changed the law. Now he faces 60 years in jail
Janis Sharp

Monday September 22 2008 11:30 BST
Article history

Any day now, my son, Gary McKinnon, could face extradition from Britain to the United States, where he would stand trial for hacking into US government computers and could face a sentence of up to 60 years.
Gary has recently been diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, which is why I and his family and his many friends and supporters around the world are arguing that he should be allowed to stay in the UK and face the courts in the country where the offence – if offence there was – was committed.
The US authorities waited two years to call for Gary's arrest because of a then-unratified, unsigned extradition treaty between the two countries, which would make it easier for them to have a British citizen sent for trial in the US. Yet, when he was first arrested in London, six years ago now, Gary was told he would probably get a sentence of community service for his hacking activities.
He naively admitted computer misuse before he had engaged a lawyer and without a lawyer even being present. We were still unaware at that time that he had Asperger's syndrome.
Gary gained no leniency for his honesty and on the contrary, his extradition has been relentlessly pursued by the British and American authorities, despite the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) declining to prosecute him in Britain. This attitude will hardly encourage British citizens to come clean regarding any crimes they may have committed. If no leniency or consideration is given when a person accused of a crime immediately and openly tells the truth, there is little point in them admitting to anything.
The CPS's decision not to to prosecute Gary here was clearly made to allow the Americans to arrest him two-and-a-half years later, once the one-sided extradition treaty was introduced and then made retrospective.
In addition, in order to indict Gary, the US authorities had to claim a specific amount of financial damage. Gary has always denied causing damage and without proof of such, the US could not prosecute him. Just a month ago the US prosecutors stated in an interview that once Gary was extradited, the most difficult thing to prove would be the damage!
Several weeks ago the goalposts were moved yet again when the US introduced a new law whereby no proof of damage was required where military computers were concerned. For the American law to then have been conveniently changed at such a crucial time does little to give us any faith in such a legal system.

There is a London demonstration outside the US embassy, scheduled for 4pm on September 28 in Grosvenor Square. See the campaign website for more details.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:32 PM   #154
anonypony
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Default An Aspergers Man - New YouTube video

New YouTube video - An interview with Rasagy

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JykjcYWdB9o

An interview with Rasagy

In late September a group of concerned people came together outside the American Embassy in London, to highlight the plight of Gary McKinnon, recently confirmed as having Aspergers Syndrome, a form of Autism.
McKinnon faces extradition to the USA for alleged damage to various computer systems operated by the US military.
The demonstration was organised by the London Autistic Rights Movement, to highlight that Aspergers Syndrome is considered a disability, and as such no extradition should even be considered.

Last edited by anonypony; 10-16-2008 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 10-12-2008, 01:39 AM   #155
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

.

Last edited by broken arrow; 11-01-2008 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 10-12-2008, 02:04 AM   #156
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

.

Last edited by broken arrow; 11-01-2008 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 10-12-2008, 03:07 AM   #157
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

.

Last edited by broken arrow; 11-01-2008 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:32 PM   #158
Ampgod
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Default Gary McKinnon Case

I wanted to give my personal opinion on this case.

I feel the facts are going to come out regarding the secret space program Anyway. I feel our government does not want them released in this manner at this time. I think all the facts will come out when the timing is correct. Right now we need to get ready for the orchestrated global financial collapse. I believe this is a carefully constructed positive plan that is happening now in steps. Also, What happens with the presidency will be very interesting as well.

I think Gary McKinnon won't do much time.
I would be very surprised if he does. If they really wanted to make a example out of him it would be much bigger headline news.

So what are your thoughts on this?
I'd love to hear some more personal opinions on this.


Peace,
Ampgod
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:40 PM   #159
bill7907
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

People won't make a big story of him is because he does not want to.

If, as Kerry said, he stood up and said: NASA and the American Government has been lying to its people and taking all the Tax of the people to finance the Secret Space Program and hide the Existence of Extraterreestrials, watch how the story will turn out.

In my opinion, Kerry and Bill should concentrate deeply on that alternative because it might set Gary free if the lies are uncovered publicly.
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Old 10-18-2008, 05:47 PM   #160
freekatz
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

I would think that the last thing the government wants at this point is a lot of publicity, that would get the public curious. Far better to spirit Gary away without too much fanfare, find out what he knows. try him and just let the media report want they want us to hear and then as Kerry suggested in another thread they can tighten up the laws on this kind of thing. I just hope for Gary's sake that it doesn't happen.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:26 PM   #161
TickTockTickTock
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampgod View Post
I wanted to give my personal opinion on this case.

I feel the facts are going to come out regarding the secret space program Anyway. I feel our government does not want them released in this manner at this time. I think all the facts will come out when the timing is correct. Right now we need to get ready for the orchestrated global financial collapse. I believe this is a carefully constructed positive plan that is happening now in steps. Also, What happens with the presidency will be very interesting as well.

I think Gary McKinnon won't do much time.
I would be very surprised if he does. If they really wanted to make a example out of him it would be much bigger headline news.

So what are your thoughts on this?
I'd love to hear some more personal opinions on this.


Peace,
Ampgod
Although nothing is fixed, I don;t think that he will be allowed to say much about the things he discovered - the judge will probably rule it to be irrelevant, and I think that he will be given a long sentence. I hope it doesn't go that way, but that's what I expect. A good psychiatric input could help a lot.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:32 PM   #162
Ampgod
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

I feel there are to cases here.

1. illegal hacking
2. What he found

So there should be 2 cases.

Regarding ET's...
I think there is already a planned time for this release so it will be released to the public in a constructive manner.

What do you think?

Last edited by Ampgod; 10-18-2008 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:07 PM   #163
martian31v
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

i would base my defense on freedom of information. we have an existential right to know our reality. the u.s gov. while keeping e.t related information from the world, the u.s gov/military is committing crimes against humanity. therefore, gary was justified in seeking/searching for that information. it is a similar argument to the one used by Dr. Greer in his whistleblower justification (the u.s was acting outside the constitution when forcing individuals to sign confidentiality clauses, therefore breaking confidentiality is not a crime.) kerry is right, gary needs to play hardball not softball.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:50 PM   #164
bill7907
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by martian31v View Post
i would base my defense on freedom of information. we have an existential right to know our reality. the u.s gov. while keeping e.t related information from the world, the u.s gov/military is committing crimes against humanity. therefore, gary was justified in seeking/searching for that information. it is a similar argument to the one used by Dr. Greer in his whistleblower justification (the u.s was acting outside the constitution when forcing individuals to sign confidentiality clauses, therefore breaking confidentiality is not a crime.) kerry is right, gary needs to play hardball not softball.
Absolutely.

The Governments worlwide are scared of such disclosure because it will bring the world to economic collapse(even though it is already happening now).
How will people react when they will know that we do not need Fuel to turn on our cars?

They want to continue ripping off the people for at least the next 200 years by standing on the idea of the "need to use Fuel and Oil".
Revealing Extraterrestrial Technology will ruin their plan.
Anyhow, those people are all criminals towards the population.
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:28 PM   #165
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by martian31v View Post
i would base my defense on freedom of information. we have an existential right to know our reality. the u.s gov. while keeping e.t related information from the world, the u.s gov/military is committing crimes against humanity. therefore, gary was justified in seeking/searching for that information.
FOIA is superceded by National Security issues... basing a defence on a need to know by circumventing normal FOIA channels and hacking into National Security computers is not only stupid, but illogical

It is hard enough for US citizens to get the info through legal channels... but then some guy that is a foreign citizen is snooping around in a foreign gov. secured systems... now that is classed as espionage

All this does is defeat the purpose of hunting for info and make them clamp down even harder. No matter what you think of his intentions, no matter what you think of the current laws, no matter what you THINK you have a right to know...

The METHOD does NOT justify the REASON

John and I have for years (him longer than me) been talking and showing evidence of the secret astronaut corps. What happened? Ridicule, scorn, being labeled lunatics... yet you all claim you have a 'need to know' about the very same issue that we get ridiculed for...

Then suddenly PBD NOVA does a one hour documentary... called ASTROSPIES... using all the same data we have presented and WHAMMY there is the beginning of the secret astronaut corp on public display and they, because of better resources had the ability to go to the Pentagon and interview the people involved...

Quote:
it is a similar argument to the one used by Dr. Greer in his whistleblower justification (the u.s was acting outside the constitution when forcing individuals to sign confidentiality clauses, therefore breaking confidentiality is not a crime.) kerry is right, gary needs to play hardball not softball.
If you haven't noticed, the Constitution doesn't much matter anymore to the PTB since 911. We let them sign in the Patriot Act, We let them create Homeland Security... all because we were led to believe the Terrorists are gonna get us...

Gary needs to play hardball? With what? He pled guilty... he committed (effectively) espionage... he admitted doing this while under the influence of an illegal drug... and he didn't save any evidence...

How will he play 'hardball' when the Judge says "Can you show evidence that what you say you found is true?"

Easy for arm chair critics to say "Be a Martyr" but how many here are writing a letter to their representative at the outrageous length of the sentence?

Has someone started a petition here in the US to send to congress asking for lieniency?

Talk is cheap...

Quote:
the u.s gov. while keeping e.t related information from the world
He is not on trial about ET or UFO information... the issue is the SECRET astronaut corp. They may or may not have anything to do with ET and may simply be a space task force that is watching over Russia or China... and as such is a purely MILITARY issue not a UFO/ET issue...

Judging by the recent responses on Avalon re .mil links... I am surprised that anyone doesn't see the difference her..

If people would spend less time chest thumping and actually do research they would find that NASA is the small fish in the Space Program. They are the public front, the scapegoat... Why do you think they never take legal action against Hoagland or all the other "NASA lies" websites?

The US NAVY and USAF Space Command are the REAL space program. I can (and have) shown tons of legally obtained data on these very programs and just how extensive they are and have been.

You want to help Gary?

Take it to the media, lobby for lesser a sentence, write letters to officials...

But don't expect him to fall on his sword for people who really don't want the truth if it doesn't fit their preconceived niche

For those wishing more info on Space Command et all... feel free to drop me a line and I will point you to it
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:40 PM   #166
Jacqui D
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

What Gary did was commendable on the part that information of Et's be made public, but how and why he let himself be caught like he did i do not understand.
Having watched the interviews he did reveal that at one point a security guy was actually communicating with him! through the computor.
Now i would have got out then and there, why push the bounderies further when he already had evidence.

I wonder if he was allowed to find this info, if so what real agenda was going on there?

Could it really be that easy to hack into highly secret compartments like that, hm! i'm not sure. But i really do feel for the guy and hope he get off but that seems unlikely.
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:46 PM   #167
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

He's not getting off. They specifically created a one way street law just for him.

Zorgon could you give me a nod in the right direction re the program. I tried pming but was logged out as usual.

Also there is a thread discussing secret UN meetings about disclosure. Do you have any info on this?

Kindest regards.
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:53 PM   #168
bill7907
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

After reading Kerry's report, she states the following:
"[...]his apparent lack of sophistication during the initial arrest[...]"

Does that mean he pled guilty by showing that he does not know to much about Hacking and he was just there as a very beginner hacker in this field and that the information was not to hard to find.

Anyhow, I believe that Garry is not that much of a beginner. I think he would be a pretty talented hacker to enter that security field.



As for Zorgon, I have not been following your story up to now.
It seems you have stuff to tell us but are you reluctant?

By the way, what we can do now is having contacts in the media field and let someone re-talk about the Gary McKinnon case on the news and divulge straight what he saw.
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Old 10-18-2008, 09:03 PM   #169
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Default Re: Gary McKinnon Case

Whilst I sympathise with Gary's plight, this has nothing whatsoever to do with Project Avalon..

We already have a HUGE 'Gary' thread running in Project Camelot General Discussion..so I'm gonna merge this one with that
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Old 10-18-2008, 10:37 PM   #170
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Sigh. So I was just reading Bill and Kerry's update today about Gary KcKinnon, and their disappointment that he isn't seeking to bring forth testimonies about the Secret Space Program. I'm not exactly sure how I feel about this yet, but I must admit it seems like it would be a shame to miss a golden opportunity to have Burisch et al testify in a US court about what's really going on.

I must express my sincere support for Gary here, and what he has been through so far.
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:53 PM   #171
Ampgod
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

The thing I just can't understand here is that people defend his actions of hacking. That is wrong. Period. Gary's actions were illegal. What he found is secondary to his initial wrong doing. Not that what he found is not important. It is very important. But he was wrong to hack anything and he knows it.

What do you guys think?
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Old 10-19-2008, 06:06 PM   #172
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampgod View Post
The thing I just can't understand here is that people defend his actions of hacking. That is wrong. Period. Gary's actions were illegal. What he found is secondary to his initial wrong doing. Not that what he found is not important. It is very important. But he was wrong to hack anything and he knows it.

What do you guys think?
I agree with you, but I don't believe Gary "found" anything
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:02 PM   #173
freekatz
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampgod View Post
The thing I just can't understand here is that people defend his actions of hacking. That is wrong. Period. Gary's actions were illegal. What he found is secondary to his initial wrong doing. Not that what he found is not important. It is very important. But he was wrong to hack anything and he knows it.

What do you guys think?
Why is it so wrong to "hack" into government computers? they are after all supposed to be civil servants paid for by our taxes, they are not holy people above us. We all know full well that governments all over the world are witholding vital information from us.

Do you consider governments "hacking" into our email, phone lines and computer IP addresses is acceptable but god forbid we should try and check up on what they are up to? I think it is gross hypocrisy on the part of the government and the laws.
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:12 PM   #174
bill7907
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ampgod View Post
The thing I just can't understand here is that people defend his actions of hacking. That is wrong. Period. Gary's actions were illegal. What he found is secondary to his initial wrong doing. Not that what he found is not important. It is very important. But he was wrong to hack anything and he knows it.

What do you guys think?
So it is wrong to try to see what the Government has been doing with all the American Tax they have collected from the people without telling them what they have used them for?

Right...


I am 100% with Gary.
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Old 10-19-2008, 07:50 PM   #175
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by freekatz View Post
Why is it so wrong to "hack" into government computers? they are after all supposed to be civil servants paid for by our taxes, they are not holy people above us. We all know full well that governments all over the world are witholding vital information from us.

Do you consider governments "hacking" into our email, phone lines and computer IP addresses is acceptable but god forbid we should try and check up on what they are up to? I think it is gross hypocrisy on the part of the government and the laws.
So by your reasoning, murder would be okay since the Govt does it...right?

Besides that, Gary is not a US citizen.
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