The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay - Page 3

voltron · 11-19-2008, 02:45 PM

I admit that as a Hippie in the 70's I wanted everything to be free. Free food, free places to sleep and free drugs. And I actually kept that attitude up until five years ago. Now in my old age I am still working at entry level jobs even though having a college degree. I didn't support my wife and children as well as I should have. What I am saying is now I appreciate the efforts others have to go through to bring us products and services. I worked on web sites and I can tell you it is a lot of work. We pay for gas, food, clothing and housing. Would we expect our landlord to give us free housing because they should "love" us? Avalon is asking only $1 to $5 per month. That is only pennies per day. Think anyone literate enough to read this has expendable income in excess of that. Let's all get together and support something we believe in rathur than asking for a handout.

piers2210 · 11-19-2008, 02:48 PM

I agree with Burgundia that it shocks me how many people would leave even if its only $1 a month, but i understand the reasons, which are not just money-related. So there HAS to be a way to fund the forum, even if it slightly compromises principles - the forum is too good to see it fail. T-shirt sales are a brilliant idea, but some form of marketing can't be too bad if monitored. And those members who contribute significantly should be given FREE MEMBERSHIP. I am a "lurker" so am happy to contribute (both to the forum and to PC) but I love to read the links etc and i have become so much more knowledgable about stuff i never knew about just a short time ago...and i spred the word like everyone else once i know something.
Bill & Kerry keep up the great work and best of luck with finding funding, but do be reasonable towards those who you know contribute/add to the forum's knowledge, and definately have a list of people who can be "sponsored" by others.

Luminari · 11-19-2008, 02:53 PM

I will be happy to suscribe and buy a t-shirt...

The sooner the whining whingers leave the better I say.. (though they will still be lurking in the shadows) I have been blown away by the amount of stupid comments and attention seeking that I have seen since this forum started and have wanted to leave myself rather than associate with such people.

Then there are the 'Beautiful People'

Who make it all so worthwhile and truly magical to be a part of and give me such inspiration.

Thank you beautiful people and thank you Project Camelot

MaskMarvl · 11-19-2008, 02:57 PM

I understand the needs of Bill and Kerry... I for one, may or may not subscribe since I don't do very much posting myself.

I find it ridiculous and childish how some of the people here are saying "goodbye" and how they're "leaving" and "farewell", etc... If the can't pay (or simply don't want to) is no reason for "leaving" since all the information will still be available for FREE... (just not posting).

I also find their "excuses" very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure their internet access alone costs them a lot more than a $1 a month so, please don't come here with your "un-believeable" reasons for saying "good-bye"

Anyway, I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone with my comments above...

Bill & Kerry... keep up the good work!

GregorArturo · 11-19-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franciejones

Very good point burgundia! As an American, I can tell you from my own observation that people in this country (please don't throw a fit when I say this fellow Americans) always seem to want something for nothing. While some may in fact be having difficulty with money (myself included) --it is my opinion that many of the Americans here were "throwing a fit". Others seemed to be using the "fee issue" as a way to create drama or dissent. (dramatic goodbyes???) I know that I can certainly pinch $60.00 per year.....I can cut out fast food, frivolous driving, one less new pair of shoes per year...change my cable suhscription, air dry my clothes in the summer, get a cheaper haircut....the list could go on and on. To any who would PM me with angry retorts....please save it! If you are American, you will know that what I say is true. Truly destitute people do not even have internet service...so lets stop with all the silly posts about having to subscribe please

I just wanted to respond to this to explain my position, just to remind people of my "type" versus my brother's statement of me being a freeloader.

I live with my parents, I eat their food, and they pay for my schooling (which is heavily discounted as my dad teaches there). They are financially stable for the most part, and I help them out around the house, physically and emotionally. I cannot give up that extra pair of shoes or a movie ticket, because I do not partake in any of these conventional activities of purchases or entertainment. I really don't. I go to class, philosophize with friends and students, and go home, read and write. I treat myself to the occasional beverage which may happen once a week, and you could say that is the only luxury I ever engage in, and almost always someone is buying me the drink. I have nothing I can sacrifice in terms of exchange because I choose to live a simple life.

To connect with this idea, I had an amazing experience at a homeless shelter this September, as I joined an elderly man for dinner at our local soup kitchen (where I was treated negatively and assumed to be a 'druggie' simply due to my presence there). He was very intelligent and was an artist. We discussed in detail art, history, and culture. He travels the country, making art, and giving it away for free. He lives the most simple life style as possible as that is what he believes in and chooses. Is he a freeloader? Is he a druggie or chronic alcoholic? By no means. He may not be working for the capitalist agenda, but he surely is giving back to the world with his endless inspiration and kindness. He taught me an important lesson that is priceless and one can never buy.

My problem with money is the direct connection of it with material goods, material time. There is more to this material world

shybastid · 11-19-2008, 03:12 PM

Apology accepted MaskMarv,...

Oh wait , I was'nt offended

My bad..

I think you wrapped it up pretty good tho.

Im so broke...I need a co-signer when I pay CASH

Seriously... If I need to post..and most of my drible is'nt worth reading in the 1st place,Ill find a couple of bucks.
What I READ here is what I should be paying for anyway.

GregorArturo · 11-19-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskMarvl

I understand the needs of Bill and Kerry... I for one, may or may not subscribe since I don't do very much posting myself.

I find it ridiculous and childish how some of the people here are saying "goodbye" and how they're "leaving" and "farewell", etc... If the can't pay (or simply don't want to) is no reason for "leaving" since all the information will still be available for FREE... (just not posting).

I also find their "excuses" very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure their internet access alone costs them a lot more than a $1 a month so, please don't come here with your "un-believeable" reasons for saying "good-bye"

Anyway, I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone with my comments above...

Bill & Kerry... keep up the good work!

It's not necessary childish. It's strategic. Look at the underlying pyschology with the statements. One may make such a statement as a last defense to change the course of things, not in terms of agreement. Including myself, because if I seriously had to put some cash out for this, I would most certainly leave. And that puts out the message, "Oh, Gregor is leaving. Bummer." And that can cause a chain reaction with Avalon members thinking "Hey don't let this happen Bill & Kerry! We'll be left with only Christian fundamentalists, fear mongerers, and cynical disinfo agents!"

There's always more to a literal message at hand.

Antaletriangle · 11-19-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskMarvl

I understand the needs of Bill and Kerry... I for one, may or may not subscribe since I don't do very much posting myself.

I find it ridiculous and childish how some of the people here are saying "goodbye" and how they're "leaving" and "farewell", etc... If the can't pay (or simply don't want to) is no reason for "leaving" since all the information will still be available for FREE... (just not posting).

I also find their "excuses" very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure their internet access alone costs them a lot more than a $1 a month so, please don't come here with your "un-believeable" reasons for saying "good-bye"

Anyway, I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone with my comments above...

Bill & Kerry... keep up the good work!

It's not a matter of your quote:childish,goodbye etcetera,etcetera it's the moving of the goalposts-this started as a free posting and exchanging site,now there is a decision to charge no matter what the charge is,i'd have hoped that Bill and Kerry would have planned this a little better from the outset and mentioned it at the very start(as i can't remember if they did?).It's o.k. for some on here with money there are lots who are struggling and i mean struggling i could just afford my £10 a month server today and it's taken me overdrawn on my overdraft so i'll receive charges to the amount of £38 on next month's statement.
I offered to do designs or contribute in some way;i suppose but i am offering a way to help but when money enters the equation i get bad vibes- in my opinion we've all been talking about change and ascension/sharing/creating radiant zones and we're going backwards and playing the game of the bankers.I'd expect a charge on a music download site or similar because that's the nature of that beast.
This reply is nothing against anyone,please understand there are alot of people who are in unfortunate circumstances on here-i don't wish to be subsidised by anyone,i am no scrounger-i wish to contribute but placing a price on this to me seems a little unfair.I do most things if not everything for free-believe it or not YES i do even though i'm skint it has not stopped me from giving.

DoctorTony · 11-19-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

I just wanted to respond to this to explain my position, just to remind people of my "type" versus my brother's statement of me being a freeloader.

I live with my parents, I eat their food, and they pay for my schooling (which is heavily discounted as my dad teaches there). They are financially stable for the most part, and I help them out around the house, physically and emotionally. I cannot give up that extra pair of shoes or a movie ticket, because I do not partake in any of these conventional activities of purchases or entertainment. I really don't. I go to class, philosophize with friends and students, and go home, read and write. I treat myself to the occasional beverage which may happen once a week, and you could say that is the only luxury I ever engage in, and almost always someone is buying me the drink. I have nothing I can sacrifice in terms of exchange because I choose to live a simple life.

To connect with this idea, I had an amazing experience at a homeless shelter this September, as I joined an elderly man for dinner at our local soup kitchen (where I was treated negatively and assumed to be a 'druggie' simply due to my presence there). He was very intelligent and was an artist. We discussed in detail art, history, and culture. He travels the country, making art, and giving it away for free. He lives the most simple life style as possible as that is what he believes in and chooses. Is he a freeloader? Is he a druggie or chronic alcoholic? By no means. He may not be working for the capitalist agenda, but he surely is giving back to the world with his endless inspiration and kindness. He taught me an important lesson that is priceless and one can never buy.

My problem with money is the direct connection of it with material goods, material time. There is more to this material world

AMEN Gregor

AND a big thank you for your inspiration on this, Project Avalon. It was a pleasure meeting you. I left with an inspiration to research more instead of stopping because my head was going to explode. I will never stop learning new and exciting things because of people like yourself. I myself get some meals from my parents. Times are tight and money is certainly and unfortunately the catalyst for so many people's unnecessary worries.
If in the event of a flooding of the coast I hope to start a new civilization with you in Northwestern Maine somewhere. Your knowledge of torsion energy and other means of harnessing what the earth has to offer is enough to start something that certainly surmounts a coming carbon tax. See you in the new earth.

Thank you
Dr Tony

enacae · 11-19-2008, 03:36 PM

Well although it is not much for a subscription at the least 12 USD a year , and at the most 60 USD a year. This site has exploded in such a short time because of the content they provide. The content is excellent! With the audience that Bill and Kerry have they should have no problem raising money through placing advertisements in key locations on the site. Everyone knows why ads are on a site, and everyone knows that if you click an ad or complete an offer that the site owners get revenue. I truly believe in what Bill and Kerry are providing here. I know that they will do fine with or without the paid subscription. I also believe that the only thing that will suffer here is the forum part of the site. You see, right now anyone can post, but if the people have to pay to post a message or convey an idea about something they will probably go to another forum to do so. Therein the sites content becomes very limited and people will stop coming to the forum. Loyal visitors will stop by to see if anyone has posted anything of interest, but with the limited amount of select people who decided to pay to post, the site will suffer in the end.
Not to mention the whole stigma that goes along with turning something that was free to begin with into something that we now have to pay for. Kind of like a bait and switch deal. I know that is not what Bill and Kerry wants.

To me it's a simple decision
Turn this site into a paid subscription site :

Pros:

Quck revenue from the subscribers that is reoccurring month by month or year by year. (depending on how the subscriber pays)

Cons

Limits on who can post messages.
Loss of potential content (due to limits on who can post).
Stigma of the whole "pay to post" thing.
Potential loss of traffic to the site.
Subscribers could potentially drop their subscription due to lack of content or limited views.

I could go on and on on the cons of this, but Im not going to. The thing is.... I could come up with the 60 bucks to pay for a subscription, but I wont do it. This site will grow beyond belief if you keep it free. More and more people out there are getting the word about this site and it could reach critical mass and it could just go crazy. If those same people come here and realize they have to pay to post. Then what do you have? You have them leaving and probably never coming back.

What ever you guys decide to do, it will be fine. As I said before, Good Luck and God speed.

MaskMarvl · 11-19-2008, 03:47 PM

Those of you who get your meals and other things from your parents... what are you going to do when they're gone? Maybe it's time to start looking into that?

No offense of couse...

I agree that it's a bummer that they've decided to go with a "membership" fee and also that they should at least try the donation scheme first but I suspect they've already experienced that with Project Camelot.

Oh well, I guess all we can do is watch and see what happens... Like someone said... "Everything happens for a reason"

Orion Morris · 11-19-2008, 03:49 PM

I understand that they need funding and I am willing to support in any way that I can. I value the information on this fourm and would hate to see it change in any way possible. What we need is more people on here, not less. If the fourm goes to a subscription only then their will be a drastic decline in members and information. It will kill this place.

We cant do this...

I will support anybody that I can... But I do not have large amounts of money... Actually I am broke... But I will throw down 50 bucks....

My problem is that I use only cash... I will have to mail the money in cash....

Where do I send it... Will I be kicked off if the money arrives late?

kem · 11-19-2008, 03:59 PM

hello,

I have enough money to pay the subscription but I've posted yet no more than 20 messages.
I like to read what people has to say even if it's nuts.
Anyway I've found much usefull information here and I would be glad to sponsor somebody for one year.

peace

burgundia · 11-19-2008, 04:01 PM

I have an idea! let's ask Rockefeller and Rothschild to pay for Avalon.

GregorArturo · 11-19-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskMarvl

Those of you who get your meals and other things from your parents... what are you going to do when they're gone? Maybe it's time to start looking into that?

No offense of couse...

I agree that it's a bummer that they've decided to go with a "membership" fee and also that they should at least try the donation scheme first but I suspect they've already experienced that with Project Camelot.

Oh well, I guess all we can do is watch and see what happens... Like someone said... "Everything happens for a reason"

When they're gone, I am going to go out back in the woods and harvest my own food, and cut my own wood, as I already do, but just to a smaller extent. It's easier to survive than much people think. And I don't think they'll be gone. I think the income will flip flop in the times to come. Instead of their money taking care of us per say, it will be my labor and rational mind taking care of us (rational as they are still in denial to what is going on).

I can tell you, I have thought out all my scenarios very extensively and am very comfortable in where I am and my current resources. The question is, have you?

MaskMarvl · 11-19-2008, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

I can tell you, I have thought out all my scenarios very extensively and am very comfortable in where I am and my current resources. The question is, have you?

"So do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring worries of its own. Today’s trouble is enough for today"

Matthew 6.34

Antaletriangle · 11-19-2008, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

I just wanted to respond to this to explain my position, just to remind people of my "type" versus my brother's statement of me being a freeloader.

I live with my parents, I eat their food, and they pay for my schooling (which is heavily discounted as my dad teaches there). They are financially stable for the most part, and I help them out around the house, physically and emotionally. I cannot give up that extra pair of shoes or a movie ticket, because I do not partake in any of these conventional activities of purchases or entertainment. I really don't. I go to class, philosophize with friends and students, and go home, read and write. I treat myself to the occasional beverage which may happen once a week, and you could say that is the only luxury I ever engage in, and almost always someone is buying me the drink. I have nothing I can sacrifice in terms of exchange because I choose to live a simple life.

To connect with this idea, I had an amazing experience at a homeless shelter this September, as I joined an elderly man for dinner at our local soup kitchen (where I was treated negatively and assumed to be a 'druggie' simply due to my presence there). He was very intelligent and was an artist. We discussed in detail art, history, and culture. He travels the country, making art, and giving it away for free. He lives the most simple life style as possible as that is what he believes in and chooses. Is he a freeloader? Is he a druggie or chronic alcoholic? By no means. He may not be working for the capitalist agenda, but he surely is giving back to the world with his endless inspiration and kindness. He taught me an important lesson that is priceless and one can never buy.

My problem with money is the direct connection of it with material goods, material time. There is more to this material world

Quality-we are the same..we are brothers! (Highlander the first, and only highlander film)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lgOD-eVSLI0

Antaletriangle · 11-19-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregorArturo

I just wanted to respond to this to explain my position, just to remind people of my "type" versus my brother's statement of me being a freeloader.

I live with my parents, I eat their food, and they pay for my schooling (which is heavily discounted as my dad teaches there). They are financially stable for the most part, and I help them out around the house, physically and emotionally. I cannot give up that extra pair of shoes or a movie ticket, because I do not partake in any of these conventional activities of purchases or entertainment. I really don't. I go to class, philosophize with friends and students, and go home, read and write. I treat myself to the occasional beverage which may happen once a week, and you could say that is the only luxury I ever engage in, and almost always someone is buying me the drink. I have nothing I can sacrifice in terms of exchange because I choose to live a simple life.

To connect with this idea, I had an amazing experience at a homeless shelter this September, as I joined an elderly man for dinner at our local soup kitchen (where I was treated negatively and assumed to be a 'druggie' simply due to my presence there). He was very intelligent and was an artist. We discussed in detail art, history, and culture. He travels the country, making art, and giving it away for free. He lives the most simple life style as possible as that is what he believes in and chooses. Is he a freeloader? Is he a druggie or chronic alcoholic? By no means. He may not be working for the capitalist agenda, but he surely is giving back to the world with his endless inspiration and kindness. He taught me an important lesson that is priceless and one can never buy.

My problem with money is the direct connection of it with material goods, material time. There is more to this material world

Exactly!
I know plenty like this i've lodged homeless people in the past when i had my own place to be able to exercise this several times!
Listen to this quality sounds!:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lgOD-eVSLI0

11-19-2008, 05:01 PM

Like Gregor above, I feel I must reply to some of the insinuations that have been put forth on this thread. I don't take accusations of being "dramatic," "childish," "a whiner," or a selfish "American" too lightly, so for the judgementally challenged, let me make a few clarifications:

I sarted this thread with the title "The Goodbye Thread" because I didn't want to suddenly be unable to say goodbye to some of the fantastic creatures who call Avalon home. There are good people here who have either seen my points of view and offered their own support, but more often, there are the folks who understand my point of view and have challenged me to move beyond my own mental box - some of the people who have called me out publicly and privately via my Avalon posts have helped me see the world a little bit differently. Is that not the point of the Hegelian dialectic? To reach synthesis? It is those folks who I am going to miss INTERACTING with here because of the subscriptions. My hope was that others who will be in the same boat could say a classy goodbye, and hopefully the thread would act as a way to get a little closure for a bad situation. That was my only intent. When subscriptions finally cut off communication, my plan was to copy and paste the text to a Word document, and keep it as a memento. I never threatened to "leave," I was just saying goodbye while I could. What was wrong with that?

Then my thread got merged with this "Options to Stay" business, and the thread became a debate/"love/hate your decision" conversation. My intent was not to discuss the merits of Bill and Kerry's decision - I don't know enough about maintaining computer forums and running a video production company to do so. But I do know a little something about conducting interviews, travelling a great deal to do so, and presenting research at conferences for the sharing of ideas. THAT costs a great deal of money, and since Bill and Kerry have been incredibly up front about the money they collect at PA going to support the work at PC, I totally understood the decision. That does not make it stink any less for those who won't be able to post anymore, but if the "big picture" demands it, so be it. I wasn't "whining" about subscriptions, or trying to preserve my existence here, I was just trying to say goodbye. Read my OP again, if in doubt.

And I must address the notion that I am a drama king because I am a citizen of the United States, and therefore must be greedy, selfish, and want everything for free - I invoke the Jerry Springer defense: "You don't know me." If you did, then you would know that if I'm still breathing, I'm fighting the dominant paridigms - with or without access to internet forums. I don't want to be seen as a blind American patriot here, but the "lazy, selfish American" stereotype is one that does not hold up to scrutiny. European nations are baffled by the fact that Americans work 5-7 days a week and only take an average of two weeks of vacation a year. Our teenagers might be killing each other in the secondary schools, but where do the worlds high school graduates come to get their college educations? What nation leads the world in humanitarian aid? I'm not saying the United States is perfect, it has many problems, but what nation doesn't? Shall I bandy about some tired stereotypes of the French, English, or Germans? No, because to do so is stupid, insensitive, and would betray a lack of understanding of said peoples and cultures. I think it is disgusting that those who mask themselves behind love and light and bemoan the lack of enlightenment in others could find themselves so reduced to throwing out tired, inaccurate, blanket assertions about such a diverse society as the United States.

Esther · 11-19-2008, 05:08 PM

What a loss of brilliant minds this will be! Times are too pressing to be putting this kind of energy on this forum. There are better ways to raise money: donations, selling of some of the data, etc. There are many free forums from websites that inform people. They sells books, cds, etc.

Is this bringing a new paradigm to birth? I do not think so. I have donated my website to several causes because I do not believe in the exchange of money for ideals of the heart. I am by no means a rich person. My work outside the house is very hard so that i can devote some time to raising awareness.

Au revoir and it has been a pleasure to 'meet' all of you.

nibiru · 11-19-2008, 05:10 PM

SERVICE TO SELF - SERVICE TO OTHERS... THE ETERNAL DILEMMA.... DON´T POLARIZE TO THE EXTREMES... INTEGRATE OPPOSITES....IN A HARMONIOUS WAY...
THIS SITE SHOULD BE A FREE SITE FOR FREE THINKERS... BUT THERE SHOULD BE ALSO AN EQUAL EXCHANGE OF ENERGY...FUNDRAISING SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM AT ALL IF YOU LOOK WITH THE CORRECT LENSE...WE ARE NOT BEING CREATIVE TO PROPOSE A SOLUTION THAT WORKS FOR ALL OF US....GROUNDCREW,MODS,FOUNDERS...
I PROPOSE TU RAISE FUNDS VIA THE ROTSCHILD´S ... LOL
1) CHARGE A FEE FOR YOUR CONFERENCES WORLDWIDE
2) SHIRTS AND DVD´S ALSO WORK FOR FUNDING PURPOSES.
3)ASK FORMALLY TO TYCOONS...there are some who will be willing to help...no one has asked them yet...or have you ?. I don´t think so...
4)WRITE A BOOK AND SELL IT...there is plenty of material to do so, and it will give enough funding for years and years to come...
5)BEGIN A PROGRAMM IN WHICH THE CANDIDATES WILL PAY A FEE TO ASSIST YOU IN INTERVIEWS...
people pay in advance to go to the moon or to fly to space in private flights...why not
6) EDIT A WORLDWIDE MAGAZINE... AND OFFER SPACE FOR ADVERTISING ON IT... IT´S GOOD BUSINESS...
7)BEGIN A CLUB...WITH AN ANNUAL FEE FOR MEMBERS ONLY...
8) RAFFLES...WIN A PRIVATE INTERVIEW WITH ST. CLAIR... (as an example only)
9) SELL ADVERTISING SPACE ON THE SITE...(HSBC WILL LOVE THIS ONE...LOL)
10)DONATIONS FROM MEMBERS OR VISITORS...
MORE?....

BeaTnik-BandiT · 11-19-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enacae

Well although it is not much for a subscription at the least 12 USD a year , and at the most 60 USD a year. This site has exploded in such a short time because of the content they provide. The content is excellent! With the audience that Bill and Kerry have they should have no problem raising money through placing advertisements in key locations on the site. Everyone knows why ads are on a site, and everyone knows that if you click an ad or complete an offer that the site owners get revenue. I truly believe in what Bill and Kerry are providing here. I know that they will do fine with or without the paid subscription. I also believe that the only thing that will suffer here is the forum part of the site. You see, right now anyone can post, but if the people have to pay to post a message or convey an idea about something they will probably go to another forum to do so. Therein the sites content becomes very limited and people will stop coming to the forum. Loyal visitors will stop by to see if anyone has posted anything of interest, but with the limited amount of select people who decided to pay to post, the site will suffer in the end.
Not to mention the whole stigma that goes along with turning something that was free to begin with into something that we now have to pay for. Kind of like a bait and switch deal. I know that is not what Bill and Kerry wants.

To me it's a simple decision
Turn this site into a paid subscription site :

Pros:

Quck revenue from the subscribers that is reoccurring month by month or year by year. (depending on how the subscriber pays)

Cons

Limits on who can post messages.
Loss of potential content (due to limits on who can post).
Stigma of the whole "pay to post" thing.
Potential loss of traffic to the site.
Subscribers could potentially drop their subscription due to lack of content or limited views.

I could go on and on on the cons of this, but Im not going to. The thing is.... I could come up with the 60 bucks to pay for a subscription, but I wont do it. This site will grow beyond belief if you keep it free. More and more people out there are getting the word about this site and it could reach critical mass and it could just go crazy. If those same people come here and realize they have to pay to post. Then what do you have? You have them leaving and probably never coming back.

What ever you guys decide to do, it will be fine. As I said before, Good Luck and God speed.

Well said.

salute.

oldpaganfreak · 11-19-2008, 05:34 PM

well, it's official. they are going to start charging for ther forum. i'm enjoyed being here, but as a pensioner, i can't afford to pay. so much for the 'free sharing of important information'.
peace, patrick

11-19-2008, 05:36 PM

Stop and think members before you sling mud.

Offer suggestions and alternate methods to solve the problem. This is not the place for division and attitude.

Personally, I think all of the alternatives are feasible. Why not try them all and see which ones work the best?

You could have a post office box address to send donations in the form of money orders and checks.

Sell advertising or dvds, t-shirts designed to get the message out. Imagine the people that don't even know this site exists that might just be curious enough to check it out.

Have subscriptions (if you must) at varying levels of affordability.

After a trial period see which methods work and alter your future methods.

doodah · 11-19-2008, 05:44 PM

Contact one of the mods and tell them you'd like to have your name put on a list of people who would like to be gifted a membership. This is one of those situations where if you ask for help, you'll likely get it. A number of posters have already said they will be happy to pay for themselves and one, or several, other people.

Peace.

11-19-2008, 02:45 PM	#51
voltron Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 111	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I admit that as a Hippie in the 70's I wanted everything to be free. Free food, free places to sleep and free drugs. And I actually kept that attitude up until five years ago. Now in my old age I am still working at entry level jobs even though having a college degree. I didn't support my wife and children as well as I should have. What I am saying is now I appreciate the efforts others have to go through to bring us products and services. I worked on web sites and I can tell you it is a lot of work. We pay for gas, food, clothing and housing. Would we expect our landlord to give us free housing because they should "love" us? Avalon is asking only $1 to $5 per month. That is only pennies per day. Think anyone literate enough to read this has expendable income in excess of that. Let's all get together and support something we believe in rathur than asking for a handout.

11-19-2008, 02:48 PM	#52
piers2210 Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 403	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I agree with Burgundia that it shocks me how many people would leave even if its only $1 a month, but i understand the reasons, which are not just money-related. So there HAS to be a way to fund the forum, even if it slightly compromises principles - the forum is too good to see it fail. T-shirt sales are a brilliant idea, but some form of marketing can't be too bad if monitored. And those members who contribute significantly should be given FREE MEMBERSHIP. I am a "lurker" so am happy to contribute (both to the forum and to PC) but I love to read the links etc and i have become so much more knowledgable about stuff i never knew about just a short time ago...and i spred the word like everyone else once i know something. Bill & Kerry keep up the great work and best of luck with finding funding, but do be reasonable towards those who you know contribute/add to the forum's knowledge, and definately have a list of people who can be "sponsored" by others.

11-19-2008, 02:53 PM	#53
Luminari Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 2,570	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I will be happy to suscribe and buy a t-shirt... The sooner the whining whingers leave the better I say.. (though they will still be lurking in the shadows) I have been blown away by the amount of stupid comments and attention seeking that I have seen since this forum started and have wanted to leave myself rather than associate with such people. Then there are the 'Beautiful People' Who make it all so worthwhile and truly magical to be a part of and give me such inspiration. Thank you beautiful people and thank you Project Camelot

11-19-2008, 02:57 PM	#54
MaskMarvl Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 35	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I understand the needs of Bill and Kerry... I for one, may or may not subscribe since I don't do very much posting myself. I find it ridiculous and childish how some of the people here are saying "goodbye" and how they're "leaving" and "farewell", etc... If the can't pay (or simply don't want to) is no reason for "leaving" since all the information will still be available for FREE... (just not posting). I also find their "excuses" very hard to believe. I'm pretty sure their internet access alone costs them a lot more than a $1 a month so, please don't come here with your "un-believeable" reasons for saying "good-bye" Anyway, I apologize in advance if I've offended anyone with my comments above... Bill & Kerry... keep up the good work!

11-19-2008, 03:12 PM	#56
shybastid Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 145	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Apology accepted MaskMarv,... Oh wait , I was'nt offended My bad.. I think you wrapped it up pretty good tho. Im so broke...I need a co-signer when I pay CASH Seriously... If I need to post..and most of my drible is'nt worth reading in the 1st place,Ill find a couple of bucks. What I READ here is what I should be paying for anyway.

11-19-2008, 03:36 PM	#60
enacae Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 26	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Well although it is not much for a subscription at the least 12 USD a year , and at the most 60 USD a year. This site has exploded in such a short time because of the content they provide. The content is excellent! With the audience that Bill and Kerry have they should have no problem raising money through placing advertisements in key locations on the site. Everyone knows why ads are on a site, and everyone knows that if you click an ad or complete an offer that the site owners get revenue. I truly believe in what Bill and Kerry are providing here. I know that they will do fine with or without the paid subscription. I also believe that the only thing that will suffer here is the forum part of the site. You see, right now anyone can post, but if the people have to pay to post a message or convey an idea about something they will probably go to another forum to do so. Therein the sites content becomes very limited and people will stop coming to the forum. Loyal visitors will stop by to see if anyone has posted anything of interest, but with the limited amount of select people who decided to pay to post, the site will suffer in the end. Not to mention the whole stigma that goes along with turning something that was free to begin with into something that we now have to pay for. Kind of like a bait and switch deal. I know that is not what Bill and Kerry wants. To me it's a simple decision Turn this site into a paid subscription site : Pros: Quck revenue from the subscribers that is reoccurring month by month or year by year. (depending on how the subscriber pays) Cons Limits on who can post messages. Loss of potential content (due to limits on who can post). Stigma of the whole "pay to post" thing. Potential loss of traffic to the site. Subscribers could potentially drop their subscription due to lack of content or limited views. I could go on and on on the cons of this, but Im not going to. The thing is.... I could come up with the 60 bucks to pay for a subscription, but I wont do it. This site will grow beyond belief if you keep it free. More and more people out there are getting the word about this site and it could reach critical mass and it could just go crazy. If those same people come here and realize they have to pay to post. Then what do you have? You have them leaving and probably never coming back. What ever you guys decide to do, it will be fine. As I said before, Good Luck and God speed.

11-19-2008, 03:47 PM	#61
MaskMarvl Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mexico Posts: 35	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Those of you who get your meals and other things from your parents... what are you going to do when they're gone? Maybe it's time to start looking into that? No offense of couse... I agree that it's a bummer that they've decided to go with a "membership" fee and also that they should at least try the donation scheme first but I suspect they've already experienced that with Project Camelot. Oh well, I guess all we can do is watch and see what happens... Like someone said... "Everything happens for a reason" Last edited by MaskMarvl; 11-19-2008 at 03:50 PM.

11-19-2008, 03:49 PM	#62
Orion Morris Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 416	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I understand that they need funding and I am willing to support in any way that I can. I value the information on this fourm and would hate to see it change in any way possible. What we need is more people on here, not less. If the fourm goes to a subscription only then their will be a drastic decline in members and information. It will kill this place. We cant do this... I will support anybody that I can... But I do not have large amounts of money... Actually I am broke... But I will throw down 50 bucks.... My problem is that I use only cash... I will have to mail the money in cash.... Where do I send it... Will I be kicked off if the money arrives late?

11-19-2008, 03:59 PM	#63
kem Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 26	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay hello, I have enough money to pay the subscription but I've posted yet no more than 20 messages. I like to read what people has to say even if it's nuts. Anyway I've found much usefull information here and I would be glad to sponsor somebody for one year. peace

11-19-2008, 04:01 PM	#64
burgundia Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Poland Posts: 3,442	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay I have an idea! let's ask Rockefeller and Rothschild to pay for Avalon.

11-19-2008, 05:01 PM	#69
historycircus Guest Posts: n/a	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Like Gregor above, I feel I must reply to some of the insinuations that have been put forth on this thread. I don't take accusations of being "dramatic," "childish," "a whiner," or a selfish "American" too lightly, so for the judgementally challenged, let me make a few clarifications: I sarted this thread with the title "The Goodbye Thread" because I didn't want to suddenly be unable to say goodbye to some of the fantastic creatures who call Avalon home. There are good people here who have either seen my points of view and offered their own support, but more often, there are the folks who understand my point of view and have challenged me to move beyond my own mental box - some of the people who have called me out publicly and privately via my Avalon posts have helped me see the world a little bit differently. Is that not the point of the Hegelian dialectic? To reach synthesis? It is those folks who I am going to miss INTERACTING with here because of the subscriptions. My hope was that others who will be in the same boat could say a classy goodbye, and hopefully the thread would act as a way to get a little closure for a bad situation. That was my only intent. When subscriptions finally cut off communication, my plan was to copy and paste the text to a Word document, and keep it as a memento. I never threatened to "leave," I was just saying goodbye while I could. What was wrong with that? Then my thread got merged with this "Options to Stay" business, and the thread became a debate/"love/hate your decision" conversation. My intent was not to discuss the merits of Bill and Kerry's decision - I don't know enough about maintaining computer forums and running a video production company to do so. But I do know a little something about conducting interviews, travelling a great deal to do so, and presenting research at conferences for the sharing of ideas. THAT costs a great deal of money, and since Bill and Kerry have been incredibly up front about the money they collect at PA going to support the work at PC, I totally understood the decision. That does not make it stink any less for those who won't be able to post anymore, but if the "big picture" demands it, so be it. I wasn't "whining" about subscriptions, or trying to preserve my existence here, I was just trying to say goodbye. Read my OP again, if in doubt. And I must address the notion that I am a drama king because I am a citizen of the United States, and therefore must be greedy, selfish, and want everything for free - I invoke the Jerry Springer defense: "You don't know me." If you did, then you would know that if I'm still breathing, I'm fighting the dominant paridigms - with or without access to internet forums. I don't want to be seen as a blind American patriot here, but the "lazy, selfish American" stereotype is one that does not hold up to scrutiny. European nations are baffled by the fact that Americans work 5-7 days a week and only take an average of two weeks of vacation a year. Our teenagers might be killing each other in the secondary schools, but where do the worlds high school graduates come to get their college educations? What nation leads the world in humanitarian aid? I'm not saying the United States is perfect, it has many problems, but what nation doesn't? Shall I bandy about some tired stereotypes of the French, English, or Germans? No, because to do so is stupid, insensitive, and would betray a lack of understanding of said peoples and cultures. I think it is disgusting that those who mask themselves behind love and light and bemoan the lack of enlightenment in others could find themselves so reduced to throwing out tired, inaccurate, blanket assertions about such a diverse society as the United States.

11-19-2008, 05:08 PM	#70
Esther Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 46	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay What a loss of brilliant minds this will be! Times are too pressing to be putting this kind of energy on this forum. There are better ways to raise money: donations, selling of some of the data, etc. There are many free forums from websites that inform people. They sells books, cds, etc. Is this bringing a new paradigm to birth? I do not think so. I have donated my website to several causes because I do not believe in the exchange of money for ideals of the heart. I am by no means a rich person. My work outside the house is very hard so that i can devote some time to raising awareness. Au revoir and it has been a pleasure to 'meet' all of you.

11-19-2008, 05:10 PM	#71
nibiru Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: CENTRAL MEXICO Posts: 60	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay SERVICE TO SELF - SERVICE TO OTHERS... THE ETERNAL DILEMMA.... DON´T POLARIZE TO THE EXTREMES... INTEGRATE OPPOSITES....IN A HARMONIOUS WAY... THIS SITE SHOULD BE A FREE SITE FOR FREE THINKERS... BUT THERE SHOULD BE ALSO AN EQUAL EXCHANGE OF ENERGY...FUNDRAISING SHOULD BE NO PROBLEM AT ALL IF YOU LOOK WITH THE CORRECT LENSE...WE ARE NOT BEING CREATIVE TO PROPOSE A SOLUTION THAT WORKS FOR ALL OF US....GROUNDCREW,MODS,FOUNDERS... I PROPOSE TU RAISE FUNDS VIA THE ROTSCHILD´S ... LOL 1) CHARGE A FEE FOR YOUR CONFERENCES WORLDWIDE 2) SHIRTS AND DVD´S ALSO WORK FOR FUNDING PURPOSES. 3)ASK FORMALLY TO TYCOONS...there are some who will be willing to help...no one has asked them yet...or have you ?. I don´t think so... 4)WRITE A BOOK AND SELL IT...there is plenty of material to do so, and it will give enough funding for years and years to come... 5)BEGIN A PROGRAMM IN WHICH THE CANDIDATES WILL PAY A FEE TO ASSIST YOU IN INTERVIEWS... people pay in advance to go to the moon or to fly to space in private flights...why not 6) EDIT A WORLDWIDE MAGAZINE... AND OFFER SPACE FOR ADVERTISING ON IT... IT´S GOOD BUSINESS... 7)BEGIN A CLUB...WITH AN ANNUAL FEE FOR MEMBERS ONLY... 8) RAFFLES...WIN A PRIVATE INTERVIEW WITH ST. CLAIR... (as an example only) 9) SELL ADVERTISING SPACE ON THE SITE...(HSBC WILL LOVE THIS ONE...LOL) 10)DONATIONS FROM MEMBERS OR VISITORS... MORE?....

11-19-2008, 05:34 PM	#73
oldpaganfreak Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: great northern boreal forest Posts: 440	paid subscription??...i'm outa here! well, it's official. they are going to start charging for ther forum. i'm enjoyed being here, but as a pensioner, i can't afford to pay. so much for the 'free sharing of important information'. peace, patrick

11-19-2008, 05:36 PM	#74
sleepingnomore Guest Posts: n/a	Re: The Goodbye Thread / Options To stay Stop and think members before you sling mud. Offer suggestions and alternate methods to solve the problem. This is not the place for division and attitude. Personally, I think all of the alternatives are feasible. Why not try them all and see which ones work the best? You could have a post office box address to send donations in the form of money orders and checks. Sell advertising or dvds, t-shirts designed to get the message out. Imagine the people that don't even know this site exists that might just be curious enough to check it out. Have subscriptions (if you must) at varying levels of affordability. After a trial period see which methods work and alter your future methods.

11-19-2008, 05:44 PM	#75
doodah Avalon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 373	Re: paid subscription??...i'm outa here! Contact one of the mods and tell them you'd like to have your name put on a list of people who would like to be gifted a membership. This is one of those situations where if you ask for help, you'll likely get it. A number of posters have already said they will be happy to pay for themselves and one, or several, other people. Peace.